6.5b Hypervoxel Sprite Artifacting-Help!

6.5b Hypervoxel Sprite Artifacting-Help!

Post by DENNI » Wed, 17 Oct 2001 01:57:09



I am trying to render a galaxy you can zoom through. I made several point
swirls in modeler in layers (1 swirl rotated several times on several
layers). Each swirl is a sprite set to "dented" in Hypervoxel panel. I start
the animation in the center of the galaxy and move outward. The problem is
that when rendered I see a vertical line artifact. It seems as though this
problem occurs where the swirls intersect, but I can't be sure.

Background: I have a null object as the center of the galaxy as a sprite
with no turbulence at all, it just is a glowing ball. In a previous attempt
I had a swirl real close to the ball, in fact part of the swirl tailed off
into the "corona" of the ball and at that point there was a similar artifact
on that swirl. When I enlarged the swirl object (a series of points) so it
no longer intersected with the ball's corona, that artifact went away. After
this I saw the new one.

Is there a sprite hypervoxel problem when 'voxels intersect? Any other
ideas. Using "volume" for all the swirls is way-way to slow.

Dennis

 
 
 

6.5b Hypervoxel Sprite Artifacting-Help!

Post by Gareth Ja » Wed, 17 Oct 2001 02:38:21




Quote:

> Is there a sprite hypervoxel problem when 'voxels intersect? Any other
> ideas. Using "volume" for all the swirls is way-way to slow.

Forgive my naivety: sprite voxel are supposed to be 2-dimensional! How are
they supposed to intersect ? :-?

--
Gareth Jax
Ihgger #7*3*2

 
 
 

6.5b Hypervoxel Sprite Artifacting-Help!

Post by Brizo » Wed, 17 Oct 2001 02:40:08


They do that sometimes because of what they are, the 2D "slice" of two
sprites which are almost sharing the same space and the renderer doesn't
know which to display infront and which behind, its like the old coplaner
errors only now with particles, can fix it in LW7 I think with using more
slices, maybe that could work?

--

-------
BriZon

Co-Founder & Director of VFX DarkICE fx.
===================/\===================
www.lexxpark.co.uk || www.darkicefx.co.uk
Work: +44 (0) 771 9859450 7am - 5pm GMT
Home: +44 (0) 786 6039358 5pm - 7am GMT


    ICQ: 124947563 || MSN: Lexxpark
===================\/===================




> > Is there a sprite hypervoxel problem when 'voxels intersect? Any other
> > ideas. Using "volume" for all the swirls is way-way to slow.

> Forgive my naivety: sprite voxel are supposed to be 2-dimensional! How are
> they supposed to intersect ? :-?

> --
> Gareth Jax
> Ihgger #7*3*2

 
 
 

6.5b Hypervoxel Sprite Artifacting-Help!

Post by DENNI » Wed, 17 Oct 2001 02:45:01


Brizon,

Thank you for the quick response!Makes sense. Since 7.0 is not an option
right now, would it be safe to say that I just need to make sure that the
sprites don't intersect? Is that the only way to avoid this? Or, any other
suggestions on how to fly through vast volumes of multi-colored galactic
clouds without 29 minute per frame rendering times (like it would be with
"volume" and not sprite?)

Dennis


> They do that sometimes because of what they are, the 2D "slice" of two
> sprites which are almost sharing the same space and the renderer doesn't
> know which to display infront and which behind, its like the old coplaner
> errors only now with particles, can fix it in LW7 I think with using more
> slices, maybe that could work?

> --

> -------
> BriZon

> Co-Founder & Director of VFX DarkICE fx.
> ===================/\===================
> www.lexxpark.co.uk || www.darkicefx.co.uk
> Work: +44 (0) 771 9859450 7am - 5pm GMT
> Home: +44 (0) 786 6039358 5pm - 7am GMT


>     ICQ: 124947563 || MSN: Lexxpark
> ===================\/===================





> > > Is there a sprite hypervoxel problem when 'voxels intersect? Any other
> > > ideas. Using "volume" for all the swirls is way-way to slow.

> > Forgive my naivety: sprite voxel are supposed to be 2-dimensional! How
are
> > they supposed to intersect ? :-?

> > --
> > Gareth Jax
> > Ihgger #7*3*2

 
 
 

6.5b Hypervoxel Sprite Artifacting-Help!

Post by DENNI » Wed, 17 Oct 2001 02:47:58


They intersect because each swirl exists on a different layer. Each layer is
the same swirl rotated about 20 degrees. The "volume" or the "glow area" of
many of the voxel sprites (make any sense?) do intersect each other.

Dennis




> > Is there a sprite hypervoxel problem when 'voxels intersect? Any other
> > ideas. Using "volume" for all the swirls is way-way to slow.

> Forgive my naivety: sprite voxel are supposed to be 2-dimensional! How are
> they supposed to intersect ? :-?

> --
> Gareth Jax
> Ihgger #7*3*2

 
 
 

6.5b Hypervoxel Sprite Artifacting-Help!

Post by Gareth Ja » Wed, 17 Oct 2001 03:08:53




Quote:> They intersect because each swirl exists on a different layer. Each
> layer is the same swirl rotated about 20 degrees. The "volume" or the
> "glow area" of many of the voxel sprites (make any sense?) do intersect
> each other.

i've understood the theory, but i should watch it by my eyes to fully
understand it :)

--
Gareth Jax
Ihgger #7*3*2

 
 
 

6.5b Hypervoxel Sprite Artifacting-Help!

Post by Brizo » Wed, 17 Oct 2001 03:09:37


--

-------
BriZon

Co-Founder & Director of VFX DarkICE fx.
===================/\===================
www.lexxpark.co.uk || www.darkicefx.co.uk
Work: +44 (0) 771 9859450 7am - 5pm GMT
Home: +44 (0) 786 6039358 5pm - 7am GMT


    ICQ: 124947563 || MSN: Lexxpark
===================\/===================


> Brizon,

> Thank you for the quick response!Makes sense. Since 7.0 is not an option
> right now, would it be safe to say that I just need to make sure that the
> sprites don't intersect? Is that the only way to avoid this? Or, any other
> suggestions on how to fly through vast volumes of multi-colored galactic
> clouds without 29 minute per frame rendering times (like it would be with
> "volume" and not sprite?)

> Dennis

in

> > They do that sometimes because of what they are, the 2D "slice" of two
> > sprites which are almost sharing the same space and the renderer doesn't
> > know which to display infront and which behind, its like the old
coplaner
> > errors only now with particles, can fix it in LW7 I think with using
more
> > slices, maybe that could work?

> > --

> > -------
> > BriZon

> > Co-Founder & Director of VFX DarkICE fx.
> > ===================/\===================
> > www.lexxpark.co.uk || www.darkicefx.co.uk
> > Work: +44 (0) 771 9859450 7am - 5pm GMT
> > Home: +44 (0) 786 6039358 5pm - 7am GMT


> >     ICQ: 124947563 || MSN: Lexxpark
> > ===================\/===================





> > > > Is there a sprite hypervoxel problem when 'voxels intersect? Any
other
> > > > ideas. Using "volume" for all the swirls is way-way to slow.

> > > Forgive my naivety: sprite voxel are supposed to be 2-dimensional! How
> are
> > > they supposed to intersect ? :-?

> > > --
> > > Gareth Jax
> > > Ihgger #7*3*2

 
 
 

6.5b Hypervoxel Sprite Artifacting-Help!

Post by Brizo » Wed, 17 Oct 2001 03:14:09


oops sorry bout the empty reply, finger kept clicking lol

you could probably minimise the effect a few different ways, having a little
dissolve on the particles can help so it doesn't show up as much, or
alternatively you could render a size down from the res you want them at,
resizing up again for the final animation you shouldn't see much difference
in quality, and by rendering lower the artifacts will have been blanked out
from fewer pixels and detail. Depending on how the scene is set you could
also try rendering in passes, but I've a feeling for the effect your wanting
that wont be much use :-\

I know what you mean about full volumetrics, there are tricks around them
being so slow (like the rendering lower res) but the time it'll take to
optimise them to render quicker you could have finished the whole animation
by then. Your best bet would probably be the dissolve idea, for star stuff
that could work quite well, lower the brightness of the particles too, that
could help.

--

-------
BriZon

Co-Founder & Director of VFX DarkICE fx.
===================/\===================
www.lexxpark.co.uk || www.darkicefx.co.uk
Work: +44 (0) 771 9859450 7am - 5pm GMT
Home: +44 (0) 786 6039358 5pm - 7am GMT


    ICQ: 124947563 || MSN: Lexxpark
===================\/===================


> Brizon,

> Thank you for the quick response!Makes sense. Since 7.0 is not an option
> right now, would it be safe to say that I just need to make sure that the
> sprites don't intersect? Is that the only way to avoid this? Or, any other
> suggestions on how to fly through vast volumes of multi-colored galactic
> clouds without 29 minute per frame rendering times (like it would be with
> "volume" and not sprite?)

> Dennis

in

> > They do that sometimes because of what they are, the 2D "slice" of two
> > sprites which are almost sharing the same space and the renderer doesn't
> > know which to display infront and which behind, its like the old
coplaner
> > errors only now with particles, can fix it in LW7 I think with using
more
> > slices, maybe that could work?

> > --

> > -------
> > BriZon

> > Co-Founder & Director of VFX DarkICE fx.
> > ===================/\===================
> > www.lexxpark.co.uk || www.darkicefx.co.uk
> > Work: +44 (0) 771 9859450 7am - 5pm GMT
> > Home: +44 (0) 786 6039358 5pm - 7am GMT


> >     ICQ: 124947563 || MSN: Lexxpark
> > ===================\/===================





> > > > Is there a sprite hypervoxel problem when 'voxels intersect? Any
other
> > > > ideas. Using "volume" for all the swirls is way-way to slow.

> > > Forgive my naivety: sprite voxel are supposed to be 2-dimensional! How
> are
> > > they supposed to intersect ? :-?

> > > --
> > > Gareth Jax
> > > Ihgger #7*3*2

 
 
 

6.5b Hypervoxel Sprite Artifacting-Help!

Post by DENNI » Wed, 17 Oct 2001 05:36:48


BriZon,

I just made sure my problem swirl did not have points directly in touch with
other swirl points and it seemed to take care of it. Sounds like a science
fiction law "matter cannot occupy the same space twice". I'll keep
experimenting.

Dennis



> oops sorry bout the empty reply, finger kept clicking lol

> you could probably minimise the effect a few different ways, having a
little
> dissolve on the particles can help so it doesn't show up as much, or
> alternatively you could render a size down from the res you want them at,
> resizing up again for the final animation you shouldn't see much
difference
> in quality, and by rendering lower the artifacts will have been blanked
out
> from fewer pixels and detail. Depending on how the scene is set you could
> also try rendering in passes, but I've a feeling for the effect your
wanting
> that wont be much use :-\

> I know what you mean about full volumetrics, there are tricks around them
> being so slow (like the rendering lower res) but the time it'll take to
> optimise them to render quicker you could have finished the whole
animation
> by then. Your best bet would probably be the dissolve idea, for star stuff
> that could work quite well, lower the brightness of the particles too,
that
> could help.

> --

> -------
> BriZon

> Co-Founder & Director of VFX DarkICE fx.
> ===================/\===================
> www.lexxpark.co.uk || www.darkicefx.co.uk
> Work: +44 (0) 771 9859450 7am - 5pm GMT
> Home: +44 (0) 786 6039358 5pm - 7am GMT


>     ICQ: 124947563 || MSN: Lexxpark
> ===================\/===================



> > Brizon,

> > Thank you for the quick response!Makes sense. Since 7.0 is not an option
> > right now, would it be safe to say that I just need to make sure that
the
> > sprites don't intersect? Is that the only way to avoid this? Or, any
other
> > suggestions on how to fly through vast volumes of multi-colored galactic
> > clouds without 29 minute per frame rendering times (like it would be
with
> > "volume" and not sprite?)

> > Dennis

> in

> > > They do that sometimes because of what they are, the 2D "slice" of two
> > > sprites which are almost sharing the same space and the renderer
doesn't
> > > know which to display infront and which behind, its like the old
> coplaner
> > > errors only now with particles, can fix it in LW7 I think with using
> more
> > > slices, maybe that could work?

> > > --

> > > -------
> > > BriZon

> > > Co-Founder & Director of VFX DarkICE fx.
> > > ===================/\===================
> > > www.lexxpark.co.uk || www.darkicefx.co.uk
> > > Work: +44 (0) 771 9859450 7am - 5pm GMT
> > > Home: +44 (0) 786 6039358 5pm - 7am GMT


> > >     ICQ: 124947563 || MSN: Lexxpark
> > > ===================\/===================





> > > > > Is there a sprite hypervoxel problem when 'voxels intersect? Any
> other
> > > > > ideas. Using "volume" for all the swirls is way-way to slow.

> > > > Forgive my naivety: sprite voxel are supposed to be 2-dimensional!
How
> > are
> > > > they supposed to intersect ? :-?

> > > > --
> > > > Gareth Jax
> > > > Ihgger #7*3*2

 
 
 

6.5b Hypervoxel Sprite Artifacting-Help!

Post by Brizo » Wed, 17 Oct 2001 05:54:43


I've got a scary visual image of someone in a starfleet uniform saying that
now :-)

--

-------
BriZon

Co-Founder & Director of VFX DarkICE fx.
===================/\===================
www.lexxpark.co.uk || www.darkicefx.co.uk
Work: +44 (0) 771 9859450 7am - 5pm GMT
Home: +44 (0) 786 6039358 5pm - 7am GMT


    ICQ: 124947563 || MSN: Lexxpark
===================\/===================


> BriZon,

> I just made sure my problem swirl did not have points directly in touch
with
> other swirl points and it seemed to take care of it. Sounds like a science
> fiction law "matter cannot occupy the same space twice". I'll keep
> experimenting.

> Dennis


in

> > oops sorry bout the empty reply, finger kept clicking lol

> > you could probably minimise the effect a few different ways, having a
> little
> > dissolve on the particles can help so it doesn't show up as much, or
> > alternatively you could render a size down from the res you want them
at,
> > resizing up again for the final animation you shouldn't see much
> difference
> > in quality, and by rendering lower the artifacts will have been blanked
> out
> > from fewer pixels and detail. Depending on how the scene is set you
could
> > also try rendering in passes, but I've a feeling for the effect your
> wanting
> > that wont be much use :-\

> > I know what you mean about full volumetrics, there are tricks around
them
> > being so slow (like the rendering lower res) but the time it'll take to
> > optimise them to render quicker you could have finished the whole
> animation
> > by then. Your best bet would probably be the dissolve idea, for star
stuff
> > that could work quite well, lower the brightness of the particles too,
> that
> > could help.

> > --

> > -------
> > BriZon

> > Co-Founder & Director of VFX DarkICE fx.
> > ===================/\===================
> > www.lexxpark.co.uk || www.darkicefx.co.uk
> > Work: +44 (0) 771 9859450 7am - 5pm GMT
> > Home: +44 (0) 786 6039358 5pm - 7am GMT


> >     ICQ: 124947563 || MSN: Lexxpark
> > ===================\/===================



> > > Brizon,

> > > Thank you for the quick response!Makes sense. Since 7.0 is not an
option
> > > right now, would it be safe to say that I just need to make sure that
> the
> > > sprites don't intersect? Is that the only way to avoid this? Or, any
> other
> > > suggestions on how to fly through vast volumes of multi-colored
galactic
> > > clouds without 29 minute per frame rendering times (like it would be
> with
> > > "volume" and not sprite?)

> > > Dennis

wrote
> > in

> > > > They do that sometimes because of what they are, the 2D "slice" of
two
> > > > sprites which are almost sharing the same space and the renderer
> doesn't
> > > > know which to display infront and which behind, its like the old
> > coplaner
> > > > errors only now with particles, can fix it in LW7 I think with using
> > more
> > > > slices, maybe that could work?

> > > > --

> > > > -------
> > > > BriZon

> > > > Co-Founder & Director of VFX DarkICE fx.
> > > > ===================/\===================
> > > > www.lexxpark.co.uk || www.darkicefx.co.uk
> > > > Work: +44 (0) 771 9859450 7am - 5pm GMT
> > > > Home: +44 (0) 786 6039358 5pm - 7am GMT


> > > >     ICQ: 124947563 || MSN: Lexxpark
> > > > ===================\/===================





> > > > > > Is there a sprite hypervoxel problem when 'voxels intersect? Any
> > other
> > > > > > ideas. Using "volume" for all the swirls is way-way to slow.

> > > > > Forgive my naivety: sprite voxel are supposed to be 2-dimensional!
> How
> > > are
> > > > > they supposed to intersect ? :-?

> > > > > --
> > > > > Gareth Jax
> > > > > Ihgger #7*3*2

 
 
 

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