MAN! character setup is TEDIOUS!

MAN! character setup is TEDIOUS!

Post by jin choun » Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:50:00



holy krike!

i thought setting up POINT GROUPS first would be a good idea... and it
really is for assigning vertices to WEIGHT MAPS later...

it's a really good idea but GEEZ! soooooo tedious....

i'm setting up a homer simpson at home... simple setup, pretty low res mesh
but enough for articulated fingers and such and to be subpatched...

i can see the advantage of weights but in terms of setup, i think i'm gonna
have to go back to BENDY POINTS....

jin

 
 
 

MAN! character setup is TEDIOUS!

Post by Fish » Wed, 07 Feb 2001 04:24:00


In fact, setting up weight maps can be done very fast when you know how to do
it. And in the end you're much more flexible than with plugins like
PuppetMaster or Bendypoints.

If you'd need to paint them you could get "Vertext Paint" by D-stom ( check
* ) which is a great tool for more complex Weight Map setups ( you can even
rotate the bones and check how the limbs bend while painting the maps ),but
also for directly painting vertex color maps. It only works in combination with
Skelegons though.

But for more simple stuff like you're discribing assigning weight maps to point
or polygon selections goes much faster. The way I do it - with fingers for
instance - is to select the last point on the tip of one finger, hit the ']'
key to expand the selection as far as it needs to go, hit "Ctrl + Shift + Rmb"
and select "Create Weight Map". This way it's very easy to select the hard
parts of an object. The best thing is to give the weight map exactly the same
name as the bone that should influence it, this way Layout will automaticly
pick the right weight map with the right bone. ( when al goes well, sometimes
it just does not..dono why )

You can treat your weight maps the same way you break the object a part for
Bendy Points or PuppetMaster, so at the parts that should bend have the weight
maps overlap. This way the vertices that have 100% of two weight maps ( index
finger top + index finger base for instance ) will stay right in the middle,
just like PuppetMaster works. So you don't have to tell every bone exactly how
much it should influence every vetice, just let Layout do that job for you.

In the bone settings just have the proper weight map assigned with no other
options activated ( so "Use Weight Map Only" deactivated ). You also dont have
to create a weight map for every bone, just at the critical parts. You can for
instance create one weight map for the upper body and assign the same weight
map to 4 or more spine-bones, works just fine. And when you need control over
just a few vertices in your object, create a weight map for them, add a small
bone with that weight map assigned and move them around. When you don't want
any other weight map influencing those vertices, select them and the other
weight map you want removed from those vertices, and use the "Clear Map" tool.

I also use the VMaps window a lot so I can navigate very fast though all my
weight maps.

Hope I've been of some help.

Ronald van Vemden
-------------------------------
*fish Laborarories
3D Animation & Computergraphics
http:\\www.*fish.nl


> holy krike!

> i thought setting up POINT GROUPS first would be a good idea... and it
> really is for assigning vertices to WEIGHT MAPS later...

> it's a really good idea but GEEZ! soooooo tedious....

> i'm setting up a homer simpson at home... simple setup, pretty low res mesh
> but enough for articulated fingers and such and to be subpatched...

> i can see the advantage of weights but in terms of setup, i think i'm gonna
> have to go back to BENDY POINTS....

> jin


 
 
 

MAN! character setup is TEDIOUS!

Post by Jin Choun » Wed, 07 Feb 2001 05:55:34


yah,

thanks very much for the tips.

this is the kind of thing that i guess i'm very much needing in terms of
character setup - not the just basic "how do i do it?" but the more subtle
"what's the best workflow and methodology...".

your tip in particular of using the "grow selection" is very helpful (i keep
forgetting that there is a grow selection!  all i ever used to do was select
connected...)... and the thing about "cutting" apart a model just like with
puppet master for point weight assignment is something i was thinking about
in my sleep last night :P....

i'm gonna go print out your last post and go over it again.

thanks much.

jin

 
 
 

MAN! character setup is TEDIOUS!

Post by Jin Choun » Wed, 07 Feb 2001 06:00:06


hrrrm,

and i really have to figure out how the setup procedure can end up being
'very fast'!  for the life of me, i can't EVEN IMAGINE how that could
possibly be!  just keeping track of what's going to who and where keeps me
busy....

just as a benchmark, how long do ya figure it would take you to do a
subpatching homer with 3fingers and a thumb - prettly low poly base mesh as
i said...?

you don't have any feature length tutorials do ya?

:)

thanks again.

jin

 
 
 

MAN! character setup is TEDIOUS!

Post by TomZapp » Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:03:27


If you think that's bad then you'll love muscle expressions.  That's my
latest learning project and it's total hell.


Quote:> holy krike!

> i thought setting up POINT GROUPS first would be a good idea... and it
> really is for assigning vertices to WEIGHT MAPS later...

> it's a really good idea but GEEZ! soooooo tedious....

> i'm setting up a homer simpson at home... simple setup, pretty low res
mesh
> but enough for articulated fingers and such and to be subpatched...

> i can see the advantage of weights but in terms of setup, i think i'm
gonna
> have to go back to BENDY POINTS....

> jin

 
 
 

MAN! character setup is TEDIOUS!

Post by Fish » Thu, 08 Feb 2001 21:29:22


To have modeler initially assign maps use the "make bone weight map"
tool. This is the equivalent of Maya's smooth bind, the rigid bind
equivalent would be PuppetMaster or Bendypoints I suppose. But who wants
to use a thing like rigid binding when you have the ease of lightwave's
smooth bind.

--
Ronald van Vemden
-------------------------------
*fish Laborarories
3D Animation & Computergraphics
http:\\www.*fish.nl


> YOU MUST EXPLAIN!!! what do you mean by letting modeler "initially
> assign" maps?! i've been looking for a LW equivalent to maya's smooth
> bind, rigid bind... does lw have such a thing? jin

 
 
 

MAN! character setup is TEDIOUS!

Post by rayr.. » Fri, 09 Feb 2001 02:48:23


Unfortunately, good character setup in Lightwave is tedious, and it's
tedious in Maya or SI as well. It all takes time and also knowing how to
model the geometry correctly for the deformations to appear the way you
desire. I've been able to get a pretty good work flow using LW for low
poly modeling, Maya for skeletal set-up and animation, and Mtor for
subds and rendering out in Prenderman.

I've been trying out the LW6.5 tools and the weight maps are very
helpful. Even so, I'm not impressed with it's graphic editing tools
for editing of keys. Still a bit primitive and slow.

Maybe when PMG Messiah:Studio is released we'll have some better options
available. I'd really like to do it all in Lightwave because of it's
render quality and avoid the Maya porting routine I currently use.
Pixar's shading isn't very user friendly to the non programmer like
myself.



> --------------AD0B77F0195BD7D586B381D6
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> To have modeler initially assign maps use the "make bone weight map"
> tool. This is the equivalent of Maya's smooth bind, the rigid bind
> equivalent would be PuppetMaster or Bendypoints I suppose. But who
wants
> to use a thing like rigid binding when you have the ease of
lightwave's
> smooth bind.

> --
> Ronald van Vemden
> -------------------------------
> *fish Laborarories
> 3D Animation & Computergraphics
> http:\\www.*fish.nl


> > YOU MUST EXPLAIN!!! what do you mean by letting modeler "initially
> > assign" maps?! i've been looking for a LW equivalent to maya's
smooth
> > bind, rigid bind... does lw have such a thing? jin

> --------------AD0B77F0195BD7D586B381D6
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
> <html>
> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
> To have modeler initially assign maps use the "make bone weight map"
tool.
> This is the equivalent of Maya's smooth bind, the rigid bind
equivalent
> would be PuppetMaster or Bendypoints I suppose. But who wants to use a
> thing like rigid binding when you have the ease of lightwave's smooth
bind.
> <p>--
> <br>Ronald van Vemden
> <br>-------------------------------
> <br>*fish Laborarories
> <br>3D Animation &amp; Computergraphics
> <br><A HREF="http:\\www.*fish.nl">http:\\www.*fish.nl</A>
> <br>&nbsp;
> <br>&nbsp;
> <br>&nbsp;
> <br>&nbsp;

> <blockquote TYPE=CITE><style></style>
> <font face="Arial"><font size=-1>YOU
> MUST EXPLAIN!!!</font></font>&nbsp;<font face="Arial"><font
size=-1>what
> do you mean by letting modeler "initially assign"

maps?!</font></font>&nbsp;<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>i've
Quote:> been looking for a LW equivalent to maya's smooth bind, rigid

bind...</font></font>&nbsp;<font face="Arial"><font size=-1>does
Quote:> lw have such a thing?</font></font>&nbsp;<font face="Arial"><font

size=-1>jin</font></font></blockquote>

Quote:

> </body>
> </html>

> --------------AD0B77F0195BD7D586B381D6--

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.veryComputer.com/
 
 
 

MAN! character setup is TEDIOUS!

Post by Jin Choun » Fri, 09 Feb 2001 03:11:42


wow,

thanks very much.

i must try this out tonight.  just to clarify though, does it automatically create the weight maps AS WELL AS assign initial weights?

i'm assuming yes.

thanks again.

jin

 
 
 

MAN! character setup is TEDIOUS!

Post by TomZapp » Fri, 09 Feb 2001 05:49:05


  Please, Please share what you learn on that topic!!!???!!!
My experiment is temporarily on hold until I finish another quick project but I had some great results so far.  However it's taking so long to apply it to a complete character I'm questioning whether or not it's worth it. Here's the expression I got off*.

vmag(extent(Muscle_Bone.wpos(Time) , Target_Null.wpos(Time))) / 1

Parent a null to your skeleton that the muscle's going to target.  Look at an anatomy book to find the connection points for each muscle. Slide the Null so it's so it's in the correct position.

Next find the base of the muscle.  Create a child bone and parent it to the section of the skeleton it's connected too. (It helps to change the muscle color so you don't get confused later) Again slide it so the pivots in the right place. Don't worry about the rest length.

Add a pointer bone to your muscle and use standard IK so it always points to the target null.  

Select the Muscle and then open Graph editor.

In the Expression window click New and type in the expression at the top.
Replace Muscle_Bone with the muscle name
Replace Target_Null with the name of your target.

Select the Z-scale channel (very bottom of the list)and press the apply button.

After the expression applied adjust the rest_length and Rest the muscle bone. Your done.

It's easy after you do it few times but when your dealing with fifty muscles it gets really tedious. Make sure you create a new expression for each muscle or they will all stay the same length.

Hope this helps.

 
 
 

MAN! character setup is TEDIOUS!

Post by TomZapp » Sat, 10 Feb 2001 04:36:05


Scroll to the bottom of the news section and click next ten postings.
The second article is a link to an expression tutorial site.
It's in Japanese so just download the scene files and analyze them.

 
 
 

MAN! character setup is TEDIOUS!

Post by Pres NEVIN » Sun, 11 Feb 2001 11:10:58



> Scroll to the bottom of the [Flay] news section and click next ten postings.
> The second article is a link to an expression tutorial site.
> It's in Japanese so just download the scene files and analyze them.

Here are the direct links, for the record.

Original version in Japanese:
<http://www.dstorm.co.jp/in/>

Wacky machine-translated version:
<http://translate.copernic.com:8090/?AlisUI=frames_ex/gen_toolbar&Alis...
Lang=ja&AlisTargetLang=en&AlisUILang=en&AlisTargetURI=http%3A//www.dstorm.co
.jp/in/>

Or you could just do like I did and learn Japanese. (: Just think of all
those plugins you'll be able to use, and besides there's lots of
never-translated anime here too!

Er...no? (:

--
Pres NEVINS  --  Nishinomiya, Japan!
<http://cvnweb.bai.ne.jp/~preston/>

 
 
 

MAN! character setup is TEDIOUS!

Post by rayr.. » Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:52:03


Good idea, althought the learning curve is accelerated considerably if
you're immersed in the culture.

wacky translation: if you're lucky enough to live in Japan, things will
go quicker. (not to mention the addws benefit of having access to the
buttload of lw related printed material available in the native
language)




> > Scroll to the bottom of the [Flay] news section and click next ten
postings.
> > The second article is a link to an expression tutorial site.
> > It's in Japanese so just download the scene files and analyze them.

> Here are the direct links, for the record.

> Original version in Japanese:
> <http://www.dstorm.co.jp/in/>

> Wacky machine-translated version:

<http://translate.copernic.com:8090/?AlisUI=frames_ex/gen_toolbar&AlisSo
urce
Lang=ja&AlisTargetLang=en&AlisUILang=en&AlisTargetURI=http%3A//www.dstor
m.co

Quote:> .jp/in/>

> Or you could just do like I did and learn Japanese. (: Just think of
all
> those plugins you'll be able to use, and besides there's lots of
> never-translated anime here too!

> Er...no? (:

> --
> Pres NEVINS  --  Nishinomiya, Japan!
> <http://cvnweb.bai.ne.jp/~preston/>

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
 
 
 

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