Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Post by Brizo » Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:29:39



As some of you know I've been working on setting up a proper graphics
company lately (with * all to do with boring intranets this time :-). I
don't have backers or partners or any of the luxuries I had last time, its
all on a tight budget (or atleast I'm planning it out on a tight budget to
avoid disappointment, just incase) and could use some advice on a few
things. Maybe I'm mad expecting to do all this on so little, but well, if I
don't try I'll never know

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

1st Question

Long version:
    I'm currently looking into setting up a renderfarm at home to use with
Lightwave (what else :-). unfortunately I wont have a huge budget for doing
this, probably around 5,000 maybe a little more if I can swing it. Now I
know the basics of setting something like this up, and should be fine
setting up LW to work across them all, but I've A) not had to do this all on
my lonesome before, and B) not on such a tight budget.
    I would be looking at around 10 to 15 machines, the bare minimum in each
machine really, and I imagine it could be possible if I call in a few
favours, deals etc. to bring the cost of the hardware down a tad, and know
I'd be cutting it close. But what hardware, price / quality should I check
out? so I can avoid being talked into buying some lemon from a crafty
salesman :-) Any help would be appreciated, even if it just gives me some
vague idea of where to start it'll be useful. Also any suggestions on good
switchers so I can just stick with one monitor and keyboard between the lot
of them *sighs* if only I could get more cash I'd be fine heh
    Also, as I can't afford to spend money on extra's that I don't actually
need. Would I be ok to use Win95 across this network? I don't want to have
to invest and mess about with something like Win2k or XP unless I -really-
have to. It's money that can go on the hardware. I know its not a great
solution and NT or 2k would be a much better choice, but so long as 95 will
work I'm happy for now, and can always upgrade later down the line if things
work out.

Quick version:
    wanting to set-up a 10 or 15 strong renderfarm for lightwave on as
little money as possible but still keeping it fast enough to be worthwhile

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

2nd Question

Long version:
DVD this time. I'm also looking for a good priced, and good quality hardware
for encoding my own DVD's, all those fancy extra's DVD's are capable of
would be great but not essential (another tight budget again grrr) So really
just a DVD-RW that'll let me put together my own DVD's which would be good
if they'd also work on other DVD Players (the non PC variety) Also which
software would you guys recommend for encoding to DVD compatible mpeg-2.

Quick version:
    I want a cheap DVD-RW and software / hardware so I can burn my own
showreels on DVD. Fancy extra's would look good, but I can live without.
Probably 500 -1,000 budget.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

3rd Question

Long version:
    I'd like to avoid this, the net is *ive especially for me, but I
think in this case I haven't much choice.. Broadband, or anything that's
faster than Dial-up actually. I guess its only answerable by those in the
UK. Which would you recommend? ASDL, ISDN etc. etc. etc. Because of where I
live, companies such as NTL don't seem to have got to us yet, so their
probably out of the question. But out of the others which would you
recommend as a good choice, cheap flat rates, decent speeds, though I'm well
aware its unlikely I'd get the speeds they advertise, seems nobody gets
those. Also this leads onto which is the recommended Firewall for such
things. - Budget.. well, there probably wont be any cash left, but I'll
think of something :-)

Quick version:
    Will probably need a fast connection for sending/receiving large files,
nice n cheap would be nice ;-)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

4th Question

    I'm sure I'll think of one eventually.

Again, thankyou for any help, advice, recommendations, hints. I know I'm
probably expecting a lot for the money, but if there's a way to do it I'll
try

--

Sincerely

C. BriZon

 
 
 

Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Post by Stuart Clar » Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:53:00


this site should help you cost a lot of it.
http://www.veryComputer.com/

I'd be tempted with the 10 machine farm if I was you, for 15 your coming in
at about 333 per box, drop to 10 and your in the 500 mark which will get
you more machine.

I persoanlly would avoide machines by Time and Tiny, they are cheaper
machines but I have had nothing but grief with them.

W95 can network fine, so no problems there, as you said though not ideal.

Omnicube do the best switchers I've come across, don't know if they do 10-15
though I only use a 4.

Cable connection if you are up north try Telewest, they do cable now as well
as ntl.

Hope this helps some - good luck


Quote:> As some of you know I've been working on setting up a proper graphics
> company lately (with * all to do with boring intranets this time :-).
I
> don't have backers or partners or any of the luxuries I had last time, its
> all on a tight budget (or atleast I'm planning it out on a tight budget to
> avoid disappointment, just incase) and could use some advice on a few
> things. Maybe I'm mad expecting to do all this on so little, but well, if
I
> don't try I'll never know

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ------

> 1st Question

> Long version:
>     I'm currently looking into setting up a renderfarm at home to use with
> Lightwave (what else :-). unfortunately I wont have a huge budget for
doing
> this, probably around 5,000 maybe a little more if I can swing it. Now I
> know the basics of setting something like this up, and should be fine
> setting up LW to work across them all, but I've A) not had to do this all
on
> my lonesome before, and B) not on such a tight budget.
>     I would be looking at around 10 to 15 machines, the bare minimum in
each
> machine really, and I imagine it could be possible if I call in a few
> favours, deals etc. to bring the cost of the hardware down a tad, and know
> I'd be cutting it close. But what hardware, price / quality should I check
> out? so I can avoid being talked into buying some lemon from a crafty
> salesman :-) Any help would be appreciated, even if it just gives me some
> vague idea of where to start it'll be useful. Also any suggestions on good
> switchers so I can just stick with one monitor and keyboard between the
lot
> of them *sighs* if only I could get more cash I'd be fine heh
>     Also, as I can't afford to spend money on extra's that I don't
actually
> need. Would I be ok to use Win95 across this network? I don't want to have
> to invest and mess about with something like Win2k or XP unless I -really-
> have to. It's money that can go on the hardware. I know its not a great
> solution and NT or 2k would be a much better choice, but so long as 95
will
> work I'm happy for now, and can always upgrade later down the line if
things
> work out.

> Quick version:
>     wanting to set-up a 10 or 15 strong renderfarm for lightwave on as
> little money as possible but still keeping it fast enough to be worthwhile

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ------

> 2nd Question

> Long version:
> DVD this time. I'm also looking for a good priced, and good quality
hardware
> for encoding my own DVD's, all those fancy extra's DVD's are capable of
> would be great but not essential (another tight budget again grrr) So
really
> just a DVD-RW that'll let me put together my own DVD's which would be good
> if they'd also work on other DVD Players (the non PC variety) Also which
> software would you guys recommend for encoding to DVD compatible mpeg-2.

> Quick version:
>     I want a cheap DVD-RW and software / hardware so I can burn my own
> showreels on DVD. Fancy extra's would look good, but I can live without.
> Probably 500 -1,000 budget.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ------

> 3rd Question

> Long version:
>     I'd like to avoid this, the net is *ive especially for me, but I
> think in this case I haven't much choice.. Broadband, or anything that's
> faster than Dial-up actually. I guess its only answerable by those in the
> UK. Which would you recommend? ASDL, ISDN etc. etc. etc. Because of where
I
> live, companies such as NTL don't seem to have got to us yet, so their
> probably out of the question. But out of the others which would you
> recommend as a good choice, cheap flat rates, decent speeds, though I'm
well
> aware its unlikely I'd get the speeds they advertise, seems nobody gets
> those. Also this leads onto which is the recommended Firewall for such
> things. - Budget.. well, there probably wont be any cash left, but I'll
> think of something :-)

> Quick version:
>     Will probably need a fast connection for sending/receiving large
files,
> nice n cheap would be nice ;-)

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ------

> 4th Question

>     I'm sure I'll think of one eventually.

> Again, thankyou for any help, advice, recommendations, hints. I know I'm
> probably expecting a lot for the money, but if there's a way to do it I'll
> try

> --

> Sincerely

> C. BriZon


 
 
 

Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Post by Kevin F Stubb » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 00:45:17


Quote:> 1st question

With that budget, you should be able to set up a 10 node farm without
too much trouble. Don't dismiss WinNT and above too quickly as WinNT4
licenses can be bought for as low 15 at time and would be preferable to
Win95. WinNT would also give you the option of dual cpu nodes which
would take up a lot less space especially since you may be a bit pushed
for space at home :-) Call me !

Quote:> 2nd Question

> Quick version:
>     I want a cheap DVD-RW and software / hardware so I can burn my own
> showreels on DVD. Fancy extra's would look good, but I can live without.
> Probably 500 -1,000 budget.

A Pioneer DVR-A03 can now be picked up for around 350 inc VAT, this
comes with MyDVD which is sufficient to produce demoreels on DVD. I
think it is now supplied with MyDVD 3 which has MPEG2 encoding software
included, otherwise get hold of the free version of TMPGenc. Failing
that, I know someone who lives just across the Pennines from you with a
Video Toaster, Spruce Virtuoso and a DVD writer who could do them for
you at a reasonable cost, or anyone interested in that service come to
think of it :-)) UK only though.

Quote:> 3rd Question
> Which would you recommend? ASDL, ISDN etc. etc. etc.

I have NTL cable which so far has been working just fine for the past
couple of months. I would avoid ISDN like the plague. It is slow,
expensive and unreliable. ADSL might be an option, but installation is
quite steep as I think BT want a 150 connection charge :-(

A lot to think about, I'm sure others will be able to offer some
additional advice.

Cheers

Kevin F Stubbs
Kayef Select Limited

 
 
 

Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Post by Benjamin Smit » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 01:15:43


That is a HUGE renderfarm.  How many people are going to be involved in this
company of yours?  I'm a one-man-band studio and I've just got a couple of
machines rendering.  Do you really need all this firepower?  If I had 5k to
spend on technology I would prefer to spend it on some compositing software,
or a Reality setup or soemthing.

Just my 2p.

Benjamin Smith | Stormfront Digital Pictures | www.sfdp.co.uk

 
 
 

Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Post by Tesselato » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 02:24:07


1st Answer:

    No Floppy, Case, KB, CD, or Mouse
    No display card (headless)
    Dual MB + Lots of Mem + Onboard TBase100 LAN
    One 20 ~ 40 Gig HD Each.

    Yes, I said no case.  You'll have a MB, PSU, & Drive per node.
    If ya wanna get fancy use cheap-o pine to hold it all together.
    and rig you're own vent-cooling system for the stack of MBs.  If
    you have a friend in construction get yourself a griddle exaust
    hood.  Short of the hood a regular old house fan to blow over or
    an exaust fan will do just fine.  For the exaust type use duct
    tape and palstic sheeting (the kind used in planter boxes) to
    cover the cheap-o pine frame and cowl correctly.

2nd Answer:

    Don't do it.  It's a trick!  Nobody wants work or demos on DVD.
    You just saved enough for 1 more node.

3rd Answer:

    Too bad noone in your hood is doing wireless.  That's 12 mb/sec
    and free!   Ye need line of site and $20 worth of parts though.

    Next to that there's Cabel and DSL.  Topology will almost
    always limit you below the top speed of either of those.
    Cable will allow you a Global IP for WWW, FTP serving from
    home.   Read up.

4th Answer:

    Consider selling HomePage and service space to pay for the
    system.  Most cable services will sell you additional IP numbers
    for 2~5 $ per month extra.

--

Quote:> As some of you know I've been working on setting up a proper graphics
> company lately (with * all to do with boring intranets this time :-). I
> don't have backers or partners or any of the luxuries I had last time, its
> all on a tight budget (or atleast I'm planning it out on a tight budget to
> avoid disappointment, just incase) and could use some advice on a few
> things. Maybe I'm mad expecting to do all this on so little, but well, if I
> don't try I'll never know

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------

> 1st Question

> Long version:
>     I'm currently looking into setting up a renderfarm at home to use with
> Lightwave (what else :-). unfortunately I wont have a huge budget for doing
> this, probably around 5,000 maybe a little more if I can swing it. Now I
> know the basics of setting something like this up, and should be fine
> setting up LW to work across them all, but I've A) not had to do this all on
> my lonesome before, and B) not on such a tight budget.
>     I would be looking at around 10 to 15 machines, the bare minimum in each
> machine really, and I imagine it could be possible if I call in a few
> favours, deals etc. to bring the cost of the hardware down a tad, and know
> I'd be cutting it close. But what hardware, price / quality should I check
> out? so I can avoid being talked into buying some lemon from a crafty
> salesman :-) Any help would be appreciated, even if it just gives me some
> vague idea of where to start it'll be useful. Also any suggestions on good
> switchers so I can just stick with one monitor and keyboard between the lot
> of them *sighs* if only I could get more cash I'd be fine heh
>     Also, as I can't afford to spend money on extra's that I don't actually
> need. Would I be ok to use Win95 across this network? I don't want to have
> to invest and mess about with something like Win2k or XP unless I -really-
> have to. It's money that can go on the hardware. I know its not a great
> solution and NT or 2k would be a much better choice, but so long as 95 will
> work I'm happy for now, and can always upgrade later down the line if things
> work out.

> Quick version:
>     wanting to set-up a 10 or 15 strong renderfarm for lightwave on as
> little money as possible but still keeping it fast enough to be worthwhile

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------

> 2nd Question

> Long version:
> DVD this time. I'm also looking for a good priced, and good quality hardware
> for encoding my own DVD's, all those fancy extra's DVD's are capable of
> would be great but not essential (another tight budget again grrr) So really
> just a DVD-RW that'll let me put together my own DVD's which would be good
> if they'd also work on other DVD Players (the non PC variety) Also which
> software would you guys recommend for encoding to DVD compatible mpeg-2.

> Quick version:
>     I want a cheap DVD-RW and software / hardware so I can burn my own
> showreels on DVD. Fancy extra's would look good, but I can live without.
> Probably 500 -1,000 budget.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------

> 3rd Question

> Long version:
>     I'd like to avoid this, the net is *ive especially for me, but I
> think in this case I haven't much choice.. Broadband, or anything that's
> faster than Dial-up actually. I guess its only answerable by those in the
> UK. Which would you recommend? ASDL, ISDN etc. etc. etc. Because of where I
> live, companies such as NTL don't seem to have got to us yet, so their
> probably out of the question. But out of the others which would you
> recommend as a good choice, cheap flat rates, decent speeds, though I'm well
> aware its unlikely I'd get the speeds they advertise, seems nobody gets
> those. Also this leads onto which is the recommended Firewall for such
> things. - Budget.. well, there probably wont be any cash left, but I'll
> think of something :-)

> Quick version:
>     Will probably need a fast connection for sending/receiving large files,
> nice n cheap would be nice ;-)

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------

> 4th Question

>     I'm sure I'll think of one eventually.

> Again, thankyou for any help, advice, recommendations, hints. I know I'm
> probably expecting a lot for the money, but if there's a way to do it I'll
> try

> --

> Sincerely

> C. BriZon

 
 
 

Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Post by Kevin F Stubb » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 02:40:44


Quote:> Too bad noone in your hood is doing wireless.  That's 12 mb/sec
>     and free!   Ye need line of site and $20 worth of parts though.

He's in the UK, we're only just getting ADSL and Cable links :-))

Quote:> Consider selling HomePage and service space to pay for the
> system.  Most cable services will sell you additional IP numbers
> for 2~5 $ per month extra.

Again, not in the UK. It's hard enough getting one IP address out of
them ! Also, broadband and 'inexpensive' aren't words that go together
too often here.

Cheers

Kevin F Stubbs
Kayef Select Limited

 
 
 

Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Post by Tesselato » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 02:56:34


Quote:> > Too bad noone in your hood is doing wireless.  That's 12 mb/sec
> >     and free!   Ye need line of site and $20 worth of parts though.
> He's in the UK, we're only just getting ADSL and Cable links :-))
> > Consider selling HomePage and service space to pay for the
> > system.  Most cable services will sell you additional IP numbers
> > for 2~5 $ per month extra.
> Again, not in the UK. It's hard enough getting one IP address out of
> them ! Also, broadband and 'inexpensive' aren't words that go together
> too often here.

Awe,  Japan, China, and the USA have it so i just assumed...

    O-Well....

 
 
 

Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Post by Charles Prae » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 03:21:21


Brizon--

<commercial pitch follows>

May I offer you an alternative for your rendering needs?  I've got a
small, web-based rendering farm that we're in the process of setting up.
We're cheap ($2.50/CPU-hour to start), we only bill when you need the
CPUs, and you can get 7x24 access via the web interface.

The one drawback for the moment is that we only support Maya 4. We're
working on getting LW and BMRT up as well, and hope to have them up
soon.  

Anyway, it's another way to do the whole thing, and keeps you from
having to build the renderfarm - roll the rendering costs in to your
client.

If you're interested, let me know, and I can arrange some try-out time.

Charlie Prael
NetRendered
http://www.veryComputer.com/


> As some of you know I've been working on setting up a proper graphics
> company lately (with * all to do with boring intranets this time :-). I
> don't have backers or partners or any of the luxuries I had last time, its
> all on a tight budget (or atleast I'm planning it out on a tight budget to
> avoid disappointment, just incase) and could use some advice on a few
> things. Maybe I'm mad expecting to do all this on so little, but well, if I
> don't try I'll never know

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------

> 1st Question

> Long version:
>     I'm currently looking into setting up a renderfarm at home to use with
> Lightwave (what else :-). unfortunately I wont have a huge budget for doing
> this, probably around 5,000 maybe a little more if I can swing it. Now I
> know the basics of setting something like this up, and should be fine
> setting up LW to work across them all, but I've A) not had to do this all on
> my lonesome before, and B) not on such a tight budget.
>     I would be looking at around 10 to 15 machines, the bare minimum in each
> machine really, and I imagine it could be possible if I call in a few
> favours, deals etc. to bring the cost of the hardware down a tad, and know
> I'd be cutting it close. But what hardware, price / quality should I check
> out? so I can avoid being talked into buying some lemon from a crafty
> salesman :-) Any help would be appreciated, even if it just gives me some
> vague idea of where to start it'll be useful. Also any suggestions on good
> switchers so I can just stick with one monitor and keyboard between the lot
> of them *sighs* if only I could get more cash I'd be fine heh
>     Also, as I can't afford to spend money on extra's that I don't actually
> need. Would I be ok to use Win95 across this network? I don't want to have
> to invest and mess about with something like Win2k or XP unless I -really-
> have to. It's money that can go on the hardware. I know its not a great
> solution and NT or 2k would be a much better choice, but so long as 95 will
> work I'm happy for now, and can always upgrade later down the line if things
> work out.

> Quick version:
>     wanting to set-up a 10 or 15 strong renderfarm for lightwave on as
> little money as possible but still keeping it fast enough to be worthwhile

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------

> 2nd Question

> Long version:
> DVD this time. I'm also looking for a good priced, and good quality hardware
> for encoding my own DVD's, all those fancy extra's DVD's are capable of
> would be great but not essential (another tight budget again grrr) So really
> just a DVD-RW that'll let me put together my own DVD's which would be good
> if they'd also work on other DVD Players (the non PC variety) Also which
> software would you guys recommend for encoding to DVD compatible mpeg-2.

> Quick version:
>     I want a cheap DVD-RW and software / hardware so I can burn my own
> showreels on DVD. Fancy extra's would look good, but I can live without.
> Probably 500 -1,000 budget.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------

> 3rd Question

> Long version:
>     I'd like to avoid this, the net is *ive especially for me, but I
> think in this case I haven't much choice.. Broadband, or anything that's
> faster than Dial-up actually. I guess its only answerable by those in the
> UK. Which would you recommend? ASDL, ISDN etc. etc. etc. Because of where I
> live, companies such as NTL don't seem to have got to us yet, so their
> probably out of the question. But out of the others which would you
> recommend as a good choice, cheap flat rates, decent speeds, though I'm well
> aware its unlikely I'd get the speeds they advertise, seems nobody gets
> those. Also this leads onto which is the recommended Firewall for such
> things. - Budget.. well, there probably wont be any cash left, but I'll
> think of something :-)

> Quick version:
>     Will probably need a fast connection for sending/receiving large files,
> nice n cheap would be nice ;-)

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------

> 4th Question

>     I'm sure I'll think of one eventually.

> Again, thankyou for any help, advice, recommendations, hints. I know I'm
> probably expecting a lot for the money, but if there's a way to do it I'll
> try

> --

> Sincerely

> C. BriZon

--
Charles Prael
Los Trancos Systems
http://www.veryComputer.com/
 
 
 

Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Post by Charles Prae » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 03:21:36


Brizon--

<commercial pitch follows>

May I offer you an alternative for your rendering needs?  I've got a
small, web-based rendering farm that we're in the process of setting up.
We're cheap ($2.50/CPU-hour to start), we only bill when you need the
CPUs, and you can get 7x24 access via the web interface.

The one drawback for the moment is that we only support Maya 4. We're
working on getting LW and BMRT up as well, and hope to have them up
soon.  

Anyway, it's another way to do the whole thing, and keeps you from
having to build the renderfarm - roll the rendering costs in to your
client.

If you're interested, let me know, and I can arrange some try-out time.

Charlie Prael
NetRendered
http://www.veryComputer.com/


> As some of you know I've been working on setting up a proper graphics
> company lately (with * all to do with boring intranets this time :-). I
> don't have backers or partners or any of the luxuries I had last time, its
> all on a tight budget (or atleast I'm planning it out on a tight budget to
> avoid disappointment, just incase) and could use some advice on a few
> things. Maybe I'm mad expecting to do all this on so little, but well, if I
> don't try I'll never know

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------

> 1st Question

> Long version:
>     I'm currently looking into setting up a renderfarm at home to use with
> Lightwave (what else :-). unfortunately I wont have a huge budget for doing
> this, probably around 5,000 maybe a little more if I can swing it. Now I
> know the basics of setting something like this up, and should be fine
> setting up LW to work across them all, but I've A) not had to do this all on
> my lonesome before, and B) not on such a tight budget.
>     I would be looking at around 10 to 15 machines, the bare minimum in each
> machine really, and I imagine it could be possible if I call in a few
> favours, deals etc. to bring the cost of the hardware down a tad, and know
> I'd be cutting it close. But what hardware, price / quality should I check
> out? so I can avoid being talked into buying some lemon from a crafty
> salesman :-) Any help would be appreciated, even if it just gives me some
> vague idea of where to start it'll be useful. Also any suggestions on good
> switchers so I can just stick with one monitor and keyboard between the lot
> of them *sighs* if only I could get more cash I'd be fine heh
>     Also, as I can't afford to spend money on extra's that I don't actually
> need. Would I be ok to use Win95 across this network? I don't want to have
> to invest and mess about with something like Win2k or XP unless I -really-
> have to. It's money that can go on the hardware. I know its not a great
> solution and NT or 2k would be a much better choice, but so long as 95 will
> work I'm happy for now, and can always upgrade later down the line if things
> work out.

> Quick version:
>     wanting to set-up a 10 or 15 strong renderfarm for lightwave on as
> little money as possible but still keeping it fast enough to be worthwhile

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------

> 2nd Question

> Long version:
> DVD this time. I'm also looking for a good priced, and good quality hardware
> for encoding my own DVD's, all those fancy extra's DVD's are capable of
> would be great but not essential (another tight budget again grrr) So really
> just a DVD-RW that'll let me put together my own DVD's which would be good
> if they'd also work on other DVD Players (the non PC variety) Also which
> software would you guys recommend for encoding to DVD compatible mpeg-2.

> Quick version:
>     I want a cheap DVD-RW and software / hardware so I can burn my own
> showreels on DVD. Fancy extra's would look good, but I can live without.
> Probably 500 -1,000 budget.

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------

> 3rd Question

> Long version:
>     I'd like to avoid this, the net is *ive especially for me, but I
> think in this case I haven't much choice.. Broadband, or anything that's
> faster than Dial-up actually. I guess its only answerable by those in the
> UK. Which would you recommend? ASDL, ISDN etc. etc. etc. Because of where I
> live, companies such as NTL don't seem to have got to us yet, so their
> probably out of the question. But out of the others which would you
> recommend as a good choice, cheap flat rates, decent speeds, though I'm well
> aware its unlikely I'd get the speeds they advertise, seems nobody gets
> those. Also this leads onto which is the recommended Firewall for such
> things. - Budget.. well, there probably wont be any cash left, but I'll
> think of something :-)

> Quick version:
>     Will probably need a fast connection for sending/receiving large files,
> nice n cheap would be nice ;-)

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------

> 4th Question

>     I'm sure I'll think of one eventually.

> Again, thankyou for any help, advice, recommendations, hints. I know I'm
> probably expecting a lot for the money, but if there's a way to do it I'll
> try

> --

> Sincerely

> C. BriZon

--
Charles Prael
Los Trancos Systems
http://www.veryComputer.com/
 
 
 

Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Post by Charles Prae » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 03:29:25


Brizon--

Having run ISDN, ADSL, SDSL, and multiplexed wireless, I would suggest
xDSL if you can get it - it's faster than ISDN, has MUCH lower latency
than multiplexed wireless, and is usually pretty stable. However,
_usually_ is the important point - my first SDSL line was quite nice for
most of it's life, but we had significant outage problems in the first 6
months (including a 10 day outage). The pains of being an early adopter.

However, there's a cheater's alternative, if you don't need to run a
server in your environment. Directional 802.11b.  You'll still need a
feed, but what you can do, if you've got 2-3 friends who live in
line-of-site of each other, is get _a_ DSL line, split the cost, then
use a YAGI'd 802.11b antenna rig to distribute that to those not living
at the drop point. Here's a gent near here who's done something similar:
http://www.veryComputer.com/

Use a cheapie router (I like the Linksys boxes) to manage the interface
to the DSL line - get a single IP from your provider, then NAT that, and
run a DHCP server off the router. You can then share up to ~150 dynamic,
and ~100 fixed IP addresses off that common feed.

Charlie Prael


> 3rd Question

> Long version:
>     I'd like to avoid this, the net is *ive especially for me, but I
> think in this case I haven't much choice.. Broadband, or anything that's
> faster than Dial-up actually. I guess its only answerable by those in the
> UK. Which would you recommend? ASDL, ISDN etc. etc. etc. Because of where I
> live, companies such as NTL don't seem to have got to us yet, so their
> probably out of the question. But out of the others which would you
> recommend as a good choice, cheap flat rates, decent speeds, though I'm well
> aware its unlikely I'd get the speeds they advertise, seems nobody gets
> those. Also this leads onto which is the recommended Firewall for such
> things. - Budget.. well, there probably wont be any cash left, but I'll
> think of something :-)

> Quick version:
>     Will probably need a fast connection for sending/receiving large files,
> nice n cheap would be nice ;-)

--
Charles Prael
Los Trancos Systems
http://www.veryComputer.com/
 
 
 

Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Post by Jeff Kilgro » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 09:53:39



Quote:> That is a HUGE renderfarm.  How many people are going to be involved in
this
> company of yours?  I'm a one-man-band studio and I've just got a couple of
> machines rendering.  Do you really need all this firepower?  If I had 5k
to
> spend on technology I would prefer to spend it on some compositing
software,
> or a Reality setup or soemthing.

Huge is a relative term...  At this time last year, we were a 3.5 man
operation and our farm consisted of 143 CPUs across 86 systems.  Since then,
we have lost a man, and the company has sold the farm to avoid buying the
farm..  Hehe.  ;)   Although, we're now a 2-man operation, our farm is again
growing and all are dual systems (AMD MP or P4) and we're up to 11 dedicated
render boxes at the moment (22 CPUs plus another 8 CPUs across 6
workstations).  We have 24 CPUs crunching around the clock right now and
desperately need more....  Our current projects using this rendering power
are all Lightwave based.  Previously, we did some Lightwave and some MAX on
that huge farm, but a good portion of it was government contract stuff and a
lot of image and data processing...

...We should be able to unveil one of our current projects in a few months.
:)

--
- Jeff Kilgroe
- Applied Visual Technologies | DarkScience
- Project "Oviis" has commenced!
- More info soon at: www.appliedvisual.com

 
 
 

Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Post by Tesselato » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:25:53


Quote:> Huge is a relative term...

Word.

 I'm a one man operation with an occasional student sitting.
 I run 25 boxes (52 CPUs) dedicated (24 duals and one quad)
 going almost 24/7 over the last 5 months or so.  That's
 not considering the Animator (dongle) machines who's numbers
 are always changing but range from 3 to 60 over the last 2
 years.  ...and /nothing/ goes public from here unless a
 client publishes it himself, and hasn't sinse 1998.
                                                      :-P

 
 
 

Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Post by Jeff Kilgro » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:51:38



Quote:> <commercial pitch follows>

> May I offer you an alternative for your rendering needs?  I've got a
> small, web-based rendering farm that we're in the process of setting up.
> We're cheap ($2.50/CPU-hour to start), we only bill when you need the
> CPUs, and you can get 7x24 access via the web interface.

Charles, I'm not trying to criticise your service, you have a good product
here.  However, as someone who has run a render farm service thing before, I
seem to find your service a bit confusing.  When you speak of CPU hours, is
that time on one CPU or is a CPU hour a complete hour with the client's job
distributed across the entire farm?

There is no information on your site about the farm itself and how jobs are
tasked out. As a potential customer, I would want to know these things...
For example, if I was going to pay for your "Gold" service at $25 per CPU
hour to render my short animation of 1500 frames (because I don't have a
spare system at home, but it takes my 1.5GHz system 30 minutes per frame)
then assuming your CPU hours are calculated as one hour distributed across
your farm, then it may be somewhat reasonable *IF* you have enough systems.
If you have 10 CPUs that average out to 10x the power of my system, then
that's 75 CPU hours for a total rendering cost of $1875!  But if you're
charing CPU hours as hours on single CPUS and you use a system of equal
power, then that is 750 CPU hours on your farm!  ...Your price to render
that job is $18,750!  Ouch.

The second scenario there is rediculous, but even the first scenario of
$1875 doesn't make sense...  That price will buy two dual CPU render nodes!

When we used to task out our farm to clients, we would treat the farm just
like a large printing press.  We wouldn't split up different CPUs for
different jobs or whatnot, just run one job after another.  Sometimes we
would juggle the schedule here and there for various reasons or certain
clients, but the entire farm would process a single job at a time.  The
client was billed for set-up, render time, and delivery.  Although our farm
is no longer open for outside rendering customers, when we do render jobs
for a client we still bill them for render time...  Our going rate right now
with 22 dedicated CPUs is $10/hour.  So rendering a project that averages 30
minutes per frame gives us a frame output of 44 frames/hour.  If it's a 2000
frame project, then that's a 46 hour render for a total of  $460.

--
- Jeff Kilgroe
- Applied Visual Technologies | DarkScience
- Project "Oviis" has commenced!
- More info soon at: www.appliedvisual.com

 
 
 

Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Post by oik » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:41:09


hey i'm a one man op too!
not much more i ca offer you in advice compared to everyone else here!

1:
i built myself 3 dual render pc's [6 procs then] for under a grand.
i used a switcher box etc to be able to see them and/or use pc anywhere or
vnc
[i also use the belkin omni-cube to switch between the 4 dual pc's i have
now]
so are you after 10-15 boxes or 10-15 processors?
cos if its the the former you could do it pretty easily and well under for
5k.
the one issue is the OS licence - i cant suggest any 'other' way, but if you
go to the computer market fairs you can pick up cheap OEM version of the OS
for a good price. and as mentioned before, go for winNT4 - stable, proven
and right now its cheap.
[i presume the preference for the 'other' way is why MS brought in that new
registration thingy in XP..]

if you go the p3 route, 1gig p3's go for about <100squid now, so its a
pretty cheap option. [i think p4 might be too much for you]
a cheaper option, but you'd be using single cpu boxes, is to go athlon.
[you could go dual athlon but thats still too expensive for what youre after
right now]
you could use those integrated motherboards - so they are crap, but they
save you on buying extra network cards or gfx cards [should you need to] and
they are cheap.
[as long as theyre gonna be dumb pc's you'll be ok with them - one hard
drive [50], maybe a cd-rom [15squid each?], psu [20] - memory - etc -
despite the recent price rise, you can still get pc133 512mb ram for about
35]
dont bother with a case, stick em on a plank with some fans...

2:
dont know much about this - i keep hearing Panasonic AO-3 is a good option,
comes with the right software and it works and people are happy with the
results. roughly 400squid for the drive inc software.

3.
depends on where you are. where are you?
do you get cable tv? maybe one of your cable tv co's would be good for you.
i have telewest and theyre good on service and support. 25squid install,
25squid p/month.
i hear pipex are very good, very fast and good value for money.
dont know about NTL's service [but they are the largest supplier of
broadband in the uk, telewest is close next, lagging behind is bt].
satellite / microwave is now available in some regions of the uk, and the
speed and service is good with the price being reasonable.

stay clear of isdn, and BT adsl has a lot of unhappy customers...

hth

"> Again, thankyou for any help, advice, recommendations, hints. I know I'm

Quote:> probably expecting a lot for the money, but if there's a way to do it I'll
> try"

it is doable for that price and you may even have some leftover coppers to
buy us all a round..

good luck, tho i dont think you'll need it, you'll be fine.
tho some very good advice is to invest your spare cash in software - after
effects, compositing solutions, editing solutions, utilities etc


Quote:> As some of you know I've been working on setting up a proper graphics
> company lately (with * all to do with boring intranets this time :-).
I
> don't have backers or partners or any of the luxuries I had last time, its
> all on a tight budget (or atleast I'm planning it out on a tight budget to
> avoid disappointment, just incase) and could use some advice on a few
> things. Maybe I'm mad expecting to do all this on so little, but well, if
I
> don't try I'll never know

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ------

> 1st Question

> Long version:
>     I'm currently looking into setting up a renderfarm at home to use with
> Lightwave (what else :-). unfortunately I wont have a huge budget for
doing
> this, probably around 5,000 maybe a little more if I can swing it. Now I
> know the basics of setting something like this up, and should be fine
> setting up LW to work across them all, but I've A) not had to do this all
on
> my lonesome before, and B) not on such a tight budget.
>     I would be looking at around 10 to 15 machines, the bare minimum in
each
> machine really, and I imagine it could be possible if I call in a few
> favours, deals etc. to bring the cost of the hardware down a tad, and know
> I'd be cutting it close. But what hardware, price / quality should I check
> out? so I can avoid being talked into buying some lemon from a crafty
> salesman :-) Any help would be appreciated, even if it just gives me some
> vague idea of where to start it'll be useful. Also any suggestions on good
> switchers so I can just stick with one monitor and keyboard between the
lot
> of them *sighs* if only I could get more cash I'd be fine heh
>     Also, as I can't afford to spend money on extra's that I don't
actually
> need. Would I be ok to use Win95 across this network? I don't want to have
> to invest and mess about with something like Win2k or XP unless I -really-
> have to. It's money that can go on the hardware. I know its not a great
> solution and NT or 2k would be a much better choice, but so long as 95
will
> work I'm happy for now, and can always upgrade later down the line if
things
> work out.

> Quick version:
>     wanting to set-up a 10 or 15 strong renderfarm for lightwave on as
> little money as possible but still keeping it fast enough to be worthwhile

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ------

> 2nd Question

> Long version:
> DVD this time. I'm also looking for a good priced, and good quality
hardware
> for encoding my own DVD's, all those fancy extra's DVD's are capable of
> would be great but not essential (another tight budget again grrr) So
really
> just a DVD-RW that'll let me put together my own DVD's which would be good
> if they'd also work on other DVD Players (the non PC variety) Also which
> software would you guys recommend for encoding to DVD compatible mpeg-2.

> Quick version:
>     I want a cheap DVD-RW and software / hardware so I can burn my own
> showreels on DVD. Fancy extra's would look good, but I can live without.
> Probably 500 -1,000 budget.

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ------

> 3rd Question

> Long version:
>     I'd like to avoid this, the net is *ive especially for me, but I
> think in this case I haven't much choice.. Broadband, or anything that's
> faster than Dial-up actually. I guess its only answerable by those in the
> UK. Which would you recommend? ASDL, ISDN etc. etc. etc. Because of where
I
> live, companies such as NTL don't seem to have got to us yet, so their
> probably out of the question. But out of the others which would you
> recommend as a good choice, cheap flat rates, decent speeds, though I'm
well
> aware its unlikely I'd get the speeds they advertise, seems nobody gets
> those. Also this leads onto which is the recommended Firewall for such
> things. - Budget.. well, there probably wont be any cash left, but I'll
> think of something :-)

> Quick version:
>     Will probably need a fast connection for sending/receiving large
files,
> nice n cheap would be nice ;-)

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ------

> 4th Question

>     I'm sure I'll think of one eventually.

> Again, thankyou for any help, advice, recommendations, hints. I know I'm
> probably expecting a lot for the money, but if there's a way to do it I'll
> try

> --

> Sincerely

> C. BriZon

 
 
 

Renderfarm question - DVD question - Connection question

Post by Charles Prae » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:44:32


Jeff--

CPU-hour - one hour, one CPU. I need to rewrite the site, though - we
just got done restructuring the damn thing (ok, completely reloading the
boxes, and restructuring the network, and a couple other things.

We're headed in the direction of what you're referencing, below, but not
there yet.




> > <commercial pitch follows>

> > May I offer you an alternative for your rendering needs?  I've got a
> > small, web-based rendering farm that we're in the process of setting up.
> > We're cheap ($2.50/CPU-hour to start), we only bill when you need the
> > CPUs, and you can get 7x24 access via the web interface.

> Charles, I'm not trying to criticise your service, you have a good product
> here.  However, as someone who has run a render farm service thing before, I
> seem to find your service a bit confusing.  When you speak of CPU hours, is
> that time on one CPU or is a CPU hour a complete hour with the client's job
> distributed across the entire farm?

> There is no information on your site about the farm itself and how jobs are
> tasked out. As a potential customer, I would want to know these things...
> For example, if I was going to pay for your "Gold" service at $25 per CPU
> hour to render my short animation of 1500 frames (because I don't have a
> spare system at home, but it takes my 1.5GHz system 30 minutes per frame)
> then assuming your CPU hours are calculated as one hour distributed across
> your farm, then it may be somewhat reasonable *IF* you have enough systems.
> If you have 10 CPUs that average out to 10x the power of my system, then
> that's 75 CPU hours for a total rendering cost of $1875!  But if you're
> charing CPU hours as hours on single CPUS and you use a system of equal
> power, then that is 750 CPU hours on your farm!  ...Your price to render
> that job is $18,750!  Ouch.

> The second scenario there is rediculous, but even the first scenario of
> $1875 doesn't make sense...  That price will buy two dual CPU render nodes!

> When we used to task out our farm to clients, we would treat the farm just
> like a large printing press.  We wouldn't split up different CPUs for
> different jobs or whatnot, just run one job after another.  Sometimes we
> would juggle the schedule here and there for various reasons or certain
> clients, but the entire farm would process a single job at a time.  The
> client was billed for set-up, render time, and delivery.  Although our farm
> is no longer open for outside rendering customers, when we do render jobs
> for a client we still bill them for render time...  Our going rate right now
> with 22 dedicated CPUs is $10/hour.  So rendering a project that averages 30
> minutes per frame gives us a frame output of 44 frames/hour.  If it's a 2000
> frame project, then that's a 46 hour render for a total of  $460.

> --
> - Jeff Kilgroe
> - Applied Visual Technologies | DarkScience
> - Project "Oviis" has commenced!
> - More info soon at: www.appliedvisual.com

--
Charles Prael
Los Trancos Systems
http://www.lts.com
 
 
 

1. Renderfarm question

Is there any interest in a job-shop type rendering farm?  The idea would be
to allow small studios (or large ones that need more capacity) to "rent"
time on a large number of CPUs for rendering purposes.  I am exploring the
idea internally as we have several hundred high end Intel based Servers that
are idle much of the time.

Michael Latta

2. Windows API and mouse cursors (thanx!)

3. Questions, questions, questions.

4. Share modem, ISDN and cable modem 11878

5. question, question, question

6. Proper arguments to glTexImage2D for 555 textures ?

7. Renderfarm question...

8. Why doesn't this code work in a PictureBox?

9. Maya renderfarm questions

10. NT Renderfarm question

11. Questions, questions, questions

12. questions questions questions!

13. Newbie question : Can someone help draw the connections ?