monitor calib and profile

monitor calib and profile

Post by Aaron » Sun, 25 Mar 2001 05:17:24



Hi all.  I have pshop 6.0 on a PC.  I've been digging around to find info on
how to calibrate and profile my monitor.  Found enough info to get started
but have a few observations.

Why does it have to be so complicated to make a monitor match your output?
I understand why we calibrate the monitor, that's fine, not too difficult.
But after that's done why not have something like the following in
Photoshop...

You have a monitor profile utility that only effect your monitor colors
within Photoshop.  This utility would give you all the tools like HSB,
brightness and contrast, curves, whatever tools you use to adjust a file,
but you are adjusting the monitor to a print you are holding in your hand.
You are not messing with the file, only how it looks on the monitor.  When
you are done you name it something like "monitor profile for Epson 870" or
"monitor profile for Hectors Flyfishing Magazine"?

I simply want to get a reasonable match, then use the info palate to
cross-check "by the numbers"

... Aaron

 
 
 

monitor calib and profile

Post by Robert William » Sun, 25 Mar 2001 17:31:48


Aaron,
Part of the problem of matching Monitor to Printed Image lies in the
fact that the monitor uses an RGB color palette, while a printer uses a
CMYK color palette. Some colors in RGB simply don't exist in CMYK
Secondly, an image will print differently on different papers. It will
even look different when printed on the same EXACT paper but at 360,
720, or 1440 dpi.

If it's extremely important, I make several test prints of a small
section of the image, tweaking the colors in the printer's CUSTOM
properties. Sometimes I like the print even better than the monitor
image, because the print is usually sharper. (300 ppi vs 72 ppi).
I think that getting an exact match between monitor and printed image is
impossible.
But Hell! Perfection in almost anything is impossible. It's a moving
target.
With a modest effort, you can get 90% of the way to where you want to
be.
With a supreme effort, you can get 99% of the way.
Everything in life is a trade off. How much extra effort are we willing
to expend, to achieve a marginal improvement in  results?.....Bob
Williams


> Hi all.  I have pshop 6.0 on a PC.  I've been digging around to find info on
> how to calibrate and profile my monitor.  Found enough info to get started
> but have a few observations.

> Why does it have to be so complicated to make a monitor match your output?
> I understand why we calibrate the monitor, that's fine, not too difficult.
> But after that's done why not have something like the following in
> Photoshop...

> You have a monitor profile utility that only effect your monitor colors
> within Photoshop.  This utility would give you all the tools like HSB,
> brightness and contrast, curves, whatever tools you use to adjust a file,
> but you are adjusting the monitor to a print you are holding in your hand.
> You are not messing with the file, only how it looks on the monitor.  When
> you are done you name it something like "monitor profile for Epson 870" or
> "monitor profile for Hectors Flyfishing Magazine"?

> I simply want to get a reasonable match, then use the info palate to
> cross-check "by the numbers"

> ... Aaron


 
 
 

monitor calib and profile

Post by Blake » Sun, 25 Mar 2001 18:37:08




Quote:> Why does it have to be so complicated to make a monitor match your output?

Then Aaron added

Quote:> Part of the problem of matching Monitor to Printed Image lies in the
> fact that the monitor uses an RGB color palette, while a printer uses a
> CMYK color palette. Some colors in RGB simply don't exist in CMYK

AaronK, If your design project is intended for print you would be wise to
work in CMYK from the start. This is the print standard. We learnt this the
hard way by getting inconsistent colours across jobs and even when we
thought a design looked great we would send it out for negs and when printed
colours would be way off our Xerox output. You can not expect to get
consistent colour when various output devices interpret the RBG images in
your docs. in different ways. eg, our fiery rip on our colour copier will
convert RGB images on the fly to CMYK using whatever algorithms are built
into the software, likewise so will every other rip and output device on the
market but not in the same way.
So convert your scans to CMYK for print before you begin or work in RGB for
web. By the way... I have a friend who accepts a lot of print files from
Customers for expensive print projects and his company does not accept files
that contain RGB images. What does this tell us?
My 2c worth.

Craig Muir
www.blakesprinting.com

 
 
 

monitor calib and profile

Post by Aaron » Mon, 26 Mar 2001 02:52:48


Yes I agree.  I just financed a project for a magazine.  I used a modified
SWOP setup ala Dan Margulis, converted to CMYK, then used curves to get the
numbers as correct as possible.  (no embedded tags)  Mostly by ignoring the
monitor.  Haven't got the contract proofs back yet, but we'll see!  There
were a lot of gray tones in the color images which is supposed to be hardest
to get correct.

For my Epson 870 printer, I would stay in RGB.  After monitor calibration,
I'm not very sure of how to setup a profile for the Epson printer so I get a
good match.  Some talk about a modified soft-proofing method.  Then others
talk of other methods.  Then there are the controls for the printer in it's
driver.  I've got the calibration step done, but sort of at a loss of how to
actually make a printer profile.  Do I need special software for this?  Or
is there a way to do this within Photoshop?   ... Aaron




>> Why does it have to be so complicated to make a monitor match your
output?

>Then Aaron added

>> Part of the problem of matching Monitor to Printed Image lies in the
>> fact that the monitor uses an RGB color palette, while a printer uses a
>> CMYK color palette. Some colors in RGB simply don't exist in CMYK

>AaronK, If your design project is intended for print you would be wise to
>work in CMYK from the start. This is the print standard. We learnt this the
>hard way by getting inconsistent colours across jobs and even when we
>thought a design looked great we would send it out for negs and when
printed
>colours would be way off our Xerox output. You can not expect to get
>consistent colour when various output devices interpret the RBG images in
>your docs. in different ways. eg, our fiery rip on our colour copier will
>convert RGB images on the fly to CMYK using whatever algorithms are built
>into the software, likewise so will every other rip and output device on
the
>market but not in the same way.
>So convert your scans to CMYK for print before you begin or work in RGB for
>web. By the way... I have a friend who accepts a lot of print files from
>Customers for expensive print projects and his company does not accept
files
>that contain RGB images. What does this tell us?
>My 2c worth.

>Craig Muir
>www.blakesprinting.com

 
 
 

monitor calib and profile

Post by akile » Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:53:13



Quote:> If it's extremely important, I make several test prints of a small
> section of the image, tweaking the colors in the printer's CUSTOM
> properties.

I haven't messed with my Epson's driver color settings.  Maybe I need to do
this.  It seems it should instead be a Photoshop monitor tweak though.  I
worry if I turn down such and such a color in the Epson driver, that I might
be limiting the full potential of the printer.

Last night, I tried a test print with gray swatches and face tones.  I then
used only the settings on the monitor itself to try to get a match.  (RGB
guns, brightness and contrast)  Someone was correct is saying the monitor
has to be turned WAY down.  I put brighter ambient lighting in the room and
the monitor brightness had to go up.  As compared to a gray card, the Epson
print gray swatches were a bit too cyan.

In the past I've tried running color corrected viewing ambient light.  This
doesn't work for me.  It seems too unnatural.  Because and print and a
monitor are such different animals, I like to color correct the best I can
on the monitor, then make a print, look at it in my computer room, then take
it over to window light.  I look at how far I can see into the shadows, and
if I fried the highlights and the overall color balance.  Then I go to the
monitor, and in the case of the Epson 870 on Matt Heavyweight paper the
print always seems too cyan and too dark.  If I tweak the file to make the
print correct, then I feel like I'm messing up a file that seems from all
past experience to be a good, by the numbers file.  Maybe this IS a case for
messing with the Epson driver colors and saving that.

I would like to see this in Photoshop:  Calibrate to a standard like we
already do.  This should make OS backgrounds and Photoshop backgrounds
OUTSIDE the image itself be a nice natural gray.  Then there would be
curves, brightness, contrast and saturation tools that would let you match
the file to the print.  This would ONLY effect the file itself and NOT the
OS/Photoshops background which remains your reference gray.  When the match
was correct, you would always be able to match the gray in your image to the
Photoshop/OS background and you would know your printer would produce a
accurate gray.  This side by side comparison is what the human eye can
probably do better than a color meter.  The rest (contrast, saturation etc)
is the easy part.  You could then save this profile for future use.  This
would also reduce your need to have to rely on ambient lighting to compare
print to monitor, because you calibrated the above printer outputs to a gray
card which sort of took the monitor out of the loop... Aaron

P.S. on 3/24/01 at 12:52pm I wrote "I just financed a project for a
magazine" should have read I just FINISHED, (darn spell checker, I don't
finance much!)

 
 
 

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