Smoothing the edges of Selections...

Smoothing the edges of Selections...

Post by Tane » Tue, 31 Oct 2000 06:48:59



Is there a way (I'm sure there is, I just haven't found it yet) of smoothing
the edges of a Selection (in PaintShop Pro 7) without blurring the rest of
the selection?

I am attempting to make montages of collection of people - but I cannot find
a way around those jagged edges....

Thanks in advance.

Tane.

 
 
 

Smoothing the edges of Selections...

Post by hood » Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:50:26


When you make the selections, do you have antialias checked?  Doesn't
sound like it from what you say.  It also sometimes helps when you are
doing a montage if you feather the selection -- sometimes quite a lot.
 I elect to feather after making the selection because that way it's
optional.

HTH

Robin

--
defunct but functional

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

Smoothing the edges of Selections...

Post by Tane » Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:07:20


Thanks for the advice - you were right Anti Alias WAS off - I guess what I
am trying to do is alter the transparency of the edge of the selection, so
that it fades into the background.  I used to use Picture Publisher 7 (where
you could directly edit the Alpha Channel), but I don't seem to be able to
do that with PSP 7 (at least I haven't found out how to yet).  I can save to
Alpha Channel, but I don't seem to be able to edit the alpha channel in
anyway...

I guess I should just play around with it a bit more.

Thanks again.

Tane.

 
 
 

Smoothing the edges of Selections...

Post by terryorego » Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:25:58


As a new user, this was the first thing I tried to master.  You are going to
get MANY responses  and methods for doing what you ask.  The first thing I
learned was to get away from the lasso tool and it's three modes. The lasso
tool seems to be good only for quick-and-dirty selections.   Rather, I now
exclusively use the painting/eraser tools to methodically select things.   I
don't remember who posted this a while back, but I've found the following is
the easiest and most intuitive for beginners.

(1) open an image
(2) promote it to a layer
(3) start using the eraser tool to erase everything but the part you want to
select.  With the eraser tool, you will be able to set the hardness and
opacity (which accomplish feathering/smoothing) as you start working on the
edges.  Experiment.
(4) Once you erased everything but the part you wanted selected, you can
save your layer and then layer/paste it over any other image.

There are other ways to use the paint tools to for careful selections, but
require a little more experience.  This is just "one" easy way for
beginners.

terry


Quote:> Is there a way (I'm sure there is, I just haven't found it yet) of
smoothing
> the edges of a Selection (in PaintShop Pro 7) without blurring the rest of
> the selection?

> I am attempting to make montages of collection of people - but I cannot
find
> a way around those jagged edges....

> Thanks in advance.

> Tane.

 
 
 

Smoothing the edges of Selections...

Post by Porte » Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:39:04



Quote:> Thanks for the advice - you were right Anti Alias WAS off - I guess what I
> am trying to do is alter the transparency of the edge of the selection, so
> that it fades into the background.

That's how antialias works once your subject is on a layer rather than
residing as a Background layer. (Before making any selections right click
the Background layer in your Layer Palette and -->Promote to Layer.   Now
you can create a one pixel edge that's degrees of transparent.  When you put
your subject onto another background the edges will have a more accomodating
blend.  Feather can be employed to do this kind of job too, but antialias is
far more precise, especially in smaller tighter areas.

B

I used to use Picture Publisher 7 (where

Quote:> you could directly edit the Alpha Channel), but I don't seem to be able to
> do that with PSP 7 (at least I haven't found out how to yet).  I can save
to
> Alpha Channel, but I don't seem to be able to edit the alpha channel in
> anyway...

> I guess I should just play around with it a bit more.

> Thanks again.

> Tane.

 
 
 

Smoothing the edges of Selections...

Post by Kris Zaklik » Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:26:57


Selection > Modify > Feather


> Is there a way (I'm sure there is, I just haven't found it yet) of smoothing
> the edges of a Selection (in PaintShop Pro 7) without blurring the rest of
> the selection?

> I am attempting to make montages of collection of people - but I cannot find
> a way around those jagged edges....

> Thanks in advance.

> Tane.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kris Zaklika                                       Jasc Software, Inc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 

Smoothing the edges of Selections...

Post by Ronald Vic » Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:59:06




Quote:>As a new user, this was the first thing I tried to master.  You are going to
>get MANY responses  and methods for doing what you ask.  The first thing I
>learned was to get away from the lasso tool and it's three modes. The lasso
>tool seems to be good only for quick-and-dirty selections.   Rather, I now
>exclusively use the painting/eraser tools to methodically select things.   I
>don't remember who posted this a while back, but I've found the following is
>the easiest and most intuitive for beginners.

>(1) open an image
>(2) promote it to a layer
>(3) start using the eraser tool to erase everything but the part you want to
>select.  With the eraser tool, you will be able to set the hardness and
>opacity (which accomplish feathering/smoothing) as you start working on the
>edges.  Experiment.
>(4) Once you erased everything but the part you wanted selected, you can
>save your layer and then layer/paste it over any other image.

>There are other ways to use the paint tools to for careful selections, but
>require a little more experience.  This is just "one" easy way for
>beginners.

>terry

And one I use myself, for simple cutouts.  One thing you didn't
mention is that if you make a mistake (and who doesn't?), you can
right click the eraser and un-erase the part you erased.

Jaggiemeister Ron- PSP Terrorist - D'Lanok de Caresk chapter, Executive Officer.
Great Beginner info at http://www.jasc-canada-psp-edu.com
FAQs at http://www.alphageo.com/psp/faq.html
Very FAQ at http://members.aol.com/psptopten/topten.html
My tips at http://hometown.aol.com/ronaldlvick/index.html

 
 
 

Smoothing the edges of Selections...

Post by hood » Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:10:15


Quote:>I guess what I
> am trying to do is alter the transparency of the edge of the
selection, so
> that it fades into the background.

Well, Porter says antialias, I much prefer a combo of antialias
and feather.  Sometimes a selection which is only antialiased is too
stark for my taste -- i.e. the edge blend isn't subtle enough. That's
why I suggested feathering after selecting as opposed to before you
make the selection.  (Selection>Modify>Feather as Kris said.)  Having
made a satisfactory selection, you can promote it to its own layer
using Selections>Promote to Layer.  Once you have the selection on its
own layer, you can move it about freely with the Mover tool, drag the
layer into another image from the layer palette, cut/paste etc. etc.

Quote:>I used to use Picture Publisher 7
(where
> you could directly edit the Alpha Channel), but I don't seem to be
able to
> do that with PSP 7 (at least I haven't found out how to yet).  I can
save to
> Alpha Channel, but I don't seem to be able to edit the alpha channel
in
> anyway...

From memory (I don't have PicPub installed any more) I think MGX refers
to what we simply call a layer as an alpha channel.  Yes?  In PSP you
edit the contents of a layer in all the usual ways - just make sure the
layer is active in the layer palette.

A PSP Alpha channel is specifically the area where greyscale mask and
selection image/info is stored.  To edit this greyscale image, you have
to first save it to Alpha either from the Selections (or Masks) menu -
masks and selections are the same once stored in Alpha - i.e. just a
recallable (is that a word?!) greyscale image.  You can then edit the
greyscale image by using Masks>Edit.  Recall it as either a selection
or a mask using either menu's Load from Alpha command.

Hope the above makes sense.

Robin

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

Smoothing the edges of Selections...

Post by Tane » Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:20:20


Thank you very much.  This looks like the easiest way of getting what I wish
to achieve - I think I will start using this method, whilst practicing the
other ways :-)

Tane.

 
 
 

Smoothing the edges of Selections...

Post by Tane » Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:21:00


Quote:> >There are other ways to use the paint tools to for careful selections,
but
> >require a little more experience.  This is just "one" easy way for
> >beginners.

> >terry

> And one I use myself, for simple cutouts.  One thing you didn't
> mention is that if you make a mistake (and who doesn't?), you can
> right click the eraser and un-erase the part you erased.

    Cool.  I'm always making mistakes :-)

Tane.

 
 
 

Smoothing the edges of Selections...

Post by Tane » Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:21:50


Quote:> That's how antialias works once your subject is on a layer rather than
> residing as a Background layer. (Before making any selections right click
> the Background layer in your Layer Palette and -->Promote to Layer.   Now
> you can create a one pixel edge that's degrees of transparent.  When you
put
> your subject onto another background the edges will have a more
accomodating
> blend.  Feather can be employed to do this kind of job too, but antialias
is
> far more precise, especially in smaller tighter areas.

    Thank you.  I will give this a try...

Tane.

 
 
 

Smoothing the edges of Selections...

Post by Tane » Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:23:02


.

Quote:> Well, Porter says antialias, I much prefer a combo of antialias
> and feather.  Sometimes a selection which is only antialiased is too
> stark for my taste -- i.e. the edge blend isn't subtle enough. That's
> why I suggested feathering after selecting as opposed to before you
> make the selection.  (Selection>Modify>Feather as Kris said.)  Having
> made a satisfactory selection, you can promote it to its own layer
> using Selections>Promote to Layer.  Once you have the selection on its
> own layer, you can move it about freely with the Mover tool, drag the
> layer into another image from the layer palette, cut/paste etc. etc.

    I see there are 'several' ways of achieving the same thing.  I'll just
have to experiment.

Quote:> A PSP Alpha channel is specifically the area where greyscale mask and
> selection image/info is stored.  To edit this greyscale image, you have
> to first save it to Alpha either from the Selections (or Masks) menu -
> masks and selections are the same once stored in Alpha - i.e. just a
> recallable (is that a word?!) greyscale image.  You can then edit the
> greyscale image by using Masks>Edit.  Recall it as either a selection
> or a mask using either menu's Load from Alpha command.

    Ah - now I see.  Thank you.

Quote:> Hope the above makes sense.

    Yep.  Sure does.  I'm off to give it a try.

Tane.

 
 
 

Smoothing the edges of Selections...

Post by Tane » Tue, 31 Oct 2000 16:23:37



Quote:> Selection > Modify > Feather

    Thanks for the response Kris.  I've taken everyone's advice and now I
think it's time to play... :-)

Tane.

 
 
 

Smoothing the edges of Selections...

Post by Porte » Wed, 01 Nov 2000 00:26:00



Quote:

> >I guess what I
> > am trying to do is alter the transparency of the edge of the
> selection, so
> > that it fades into the background.
> Well, Porter says antialias, I much prefer a combo of antialias
> and feather.  Sometimes a selection which is only antialiased is too
> stark for my taste -- i.e. the edge blend isn't subtle enough. That's
> why I suggested feathering after selecting as opposed to before you
> make the selection.  (Selection>Modify>Feather as Kris said.)  Having
> made a satisfactory selection, you can promote it to its own layer
> using Selections>Promote to Layer.  Once you have the selection on its
> own layer, you can move it about freely with the Mover tool, drag the
> layer into another image from the layer palette, cut/paste etc. etc.

I like the combination methods of antialias and feather too. A favored
shopping trip for gauging the best edge on Uncle Harry is to select the
subject very carefully with antialias, get all its background removed & then
FLOAT that selection.  This automatically duplicates Uncle Harry with a live
marquee installed around him.

Create a new layer.  Newly created layers are usually
sitting on top of the "floating selection" in the Layer Palette -> Grab that
"floating selection" entry in the layer palette & physically drag it
until it repositions itself above our newest layer.  Don't use
a PROMOTE TO LAYER here because we lose our marquee which we'll be needing.
(Yes, Promote to Layer & reselect Harry will work just fine too)

Scoot/drag our duplicate Harry over a bit so we can compare our two
Harry's as we further alter edges on duplicate Harry.

Selection> Modify > Feather > pick a number (let's say 3) which pushes your
selection marquee 3 pixels further out into the empty transparent area of
that new layer.  That won't really do anything yet, since we are now pushing
our marquee out in the wrong direction.

So->   Menu > Selections > INVERT. Now we are back in business.

We've reversed our marquee so it now bites back into Uncle Harry by
3 pixels.  Hit the DELETE Key & compare Harry's new edge against that
original Harry.  Play with feathering on the duplicate to get the edge you
seek.

If feathering softens out Uncle Harry edges rather beautifully but also
wipe out a critical portion of his nose ... Remember you can always press
your Command Key & then draw completely around Harry's nose to excluded it
from the current selection.

Although those marquees may feel like we're riding on a runaway train, we
actually have full and complete control over every pixel in an image once we
know the tools & where all the bodies are buried.

If you hit delete and your edge looks better but not quite enough ...
Before running back over to increase the feather number-> hit the
delete key a couple more times & watch your edge continue to melt away.

Porter