Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Post by Cynthia Danie » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 01:56:34



Starting with PSP 6 and continuing into PSP7, Paint Shop Pro
significantly changed how they render fonts.  For a web designer who has
to later duplicate graphics made in PSP 5 this is a pain.  Therefore, I
keep both PSP 7 and PSP 5 on my machine.

The look of the font rendering was actually closer to Photoshop in PSP
5.  When I asked Jasc about the change, they said they had complaints in
PSP 5 about the clarity of the fonts and this is the reason for the
change.  But, I've had a lot of problems in 6 & 7 with the space between
characters being very unequal, especially at smaller sizes and I have to
go in an manually move letters closer and/or further from each other.

Because of this, I've basically decided that I refuse to purchase any
more of their upgrades until this problem is addressed.  Any other
designers else feel the same way?

Cynthia Daniel

 
 
 

Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Post by Ilya Razmano » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 01:59:05



Quote:> Starting with PSP 6 and continuing into PSP7, Paint Shop Pro
> significantly changed how they render fonts.  For a web designer who has
> to later duplicate graphics made in PSP 5 this is a pain.  Therefore, I
> keep both PSP 7 and PSP 5 on my machine.

> The look of the font rendering was actually closer to Photoshop in PSP
> 5.  When I asked Jasc about the change, they said they had complaints in
> PSP 5 about the clarity of the fonts and this is the reason for the
> change.  But, I've had a lot of problems in 6 & 7 with the space between
> characters being very unequal, especially at smaller sizes and I have to
> go in an manually move letters closer and/or further from each other.

Did you try switching "Auto Kern" off?

Ilyich.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ilya Razmanov (a.k.a. Ilyich the Toad)
http://photoshop.msk.ru/ - Photoshop plug-in filters
- I've just killed a guy.
- I'm just about to. - Full Throttle
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Post by Rick Simo » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 02:23:07




Quote:

> The look of the font rendering was actually closer to Photoshop in
> PSP 5.  When I asked Jasc about the change, they said they had
> complaints in PSP 5 about the clarity of the fonts and this is the
> reason for the change.  But, I've had a lot of problems in 6 & 7
> with the space between characters being very unequal, especially
> at smaller sizes and I have to go in an manually move letters
> closer and/or further from each other.

> Because of this, I've basically decided that I refuse to purchase
> any more of their upgrades until this problem is addressed.  Any
> other designers else feel the same way?

 Personally, I also still have 5 on my main work system, but not for
the same reason. I keep it for some of those .fon fonts that will not
work in later versions of PSP, though I go into it less and less
often now as sites that I built with those fonts have been replaced
with newer designs. As far as spacing between letters though, that's
relatively easily taken care of with the Kerning adjustment in the
text tool in v7. I suggest you take a look at that. Simply move the
cursor in the text dialog preview area to the space between the two
letters that you're having trouble with and adjust the Kerning value
while observing the effect on the image. Will that take care of the
problem for you?

--
Rick Simon

 
 
 

Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Post by Triumph The Insult Comic Do » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 10:23:06


That's my #1 problem with PSP7.
Instead I use Fireworks for text, which IMO blows
everything's else away in that department.

#2 problem being the limited number of layers
you can have.

-woof.


Quote:> Starting with PSP 6 and continuing into PSP7, Paint Shop Pro
> significantly changed how they render fonts.  For a web designer who has
> to later duplicate graphics made in PSP 5 this is a pain.  Therefore, I
> keep both PSP 7 and PSP 5 on my machine.

> The look of the font rendering was actually closer to Photoshop in PSP
> 5.  When I asked Jasc about the change, they said they had complaints in
> PSP 5 about the clarity of the fonts and this is the reason for the
> change.  But, I've had a lot of problems in 6 & 7 with the space between
> characters being very unequal, especially at smaller sizes and I have to
> go in an manually move letters closer and/or further from each other.

> Because of this, I've basically decided that I refuse to purchase any
> more of their upgrades until this problem is addressed.  Any other
> designers else feel the same way?

> Cynthia Daniel

 
 
 

Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Post by Cynthia Danie » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 17:46:51


Quote:

>Did you try switching "Auto Kern" off?

Yes, thanks.  Tried that early on.

Cynthia

 
 
 

Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Post by Cynthia Danie » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 17:53:10


Quote:

>That's my #1 problem with PSP7.
>Instead I use Fireworks for text, which IMO blows
>everything's else away in that department.

Fireworks is pretty pricey, isn't it?

Quote:>#2 problem being the limited number of layers
>you can have.

Really?  I've not run into that one.  How many have your found to be the
limit?

Cynthia

 
 
 

Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Post by Uni » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 18:00:23



> Starting with PSP 6 and continuing into PSP7, Paint Shop Pro
> significantly changed how they render fonts.  For a web designer who has
> to later duplicate graphics made in PSP 5 this is a pain.  Therefore, I
> keep both PSP 7 and PSP 5 on my machine.

> The look of the font rendering was actually closer to Photoshop in PSP
> 5.  When I asked Jasc about the change, they said they had complaints in
> PSP 5 about the clarity of the fonts and this is the reason for the
> change.

Let me get this straight, PSP-5's Text looks very much like text used in
one the most popular and professionally used software applications in
the world, Photoshop. However, someone at Jasc told you it was not clear
enough for them, so they changed it. That makes little sense.

Yes, Triumph brought up this same Text issue about a half year ago.

A rule of thumb to use here: If Kris Zaklika does not address a
question, then he most likely knows there's a problem with his software.

Quote:> But, I've had a lot of problems in 6 & 7 with the space between
> characters being very unequal, especially at smaller sizes and I have to
> go in an manually move letters closer and/or further from each other.

> Because of this, I've basically decided that I refuse to purchase any
> more of their upgrades until this problem is addressed.
> Any other
> designers else feel the same way?

The designers I know, do not use Paint Shop Pro.

Uni

Quote:

> Cynthia Daniel

 
 
 

Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Post by Cynthia Danie » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 17:55:53


Quote:

>Let me get this straight, PSP-5's Text looks very much like text used in
>one the most popular and professionally used software applications in
>the world, Photoshop. However, someone at Jasc told you it was not clear
>enough for them, so they changed it. That makes little sense.

They told me customers complained about the clarity.

Cynthia

 
 
 

Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Post by Cynthia Danie » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 18:00:32


I guess attachments aren't allowed here because a message I sent with
one went to the newsgroup in the sky.

Anyway, two characters, fine, adjusting kerning is feasible.  But, a
whole menu?  Not very cost effective.  I'll try a link to the image
example I tried unsuccessfully to send earlier...PSP5 on the left and
PSP7 on the right...exact same settings in Bauhaus MD, TrueType.  It
happens in other fonts as well.

http://www.portraitartist.com/font-sampe.gif

Cynthia




>>The look of the font rendering was actually closer to Photoshop in
>>PSP 5.  When I asked Jasc about the change, they said they had
>>complaints in PSP 5 about the clarity of the fonts and this is the
>>reason for the change.  But, I've had a lot of problems in 6 & 7
>>with the space between characters being very unequal, especially
>>at smaller sizes and I have to go in an manually move letters
>>closer and/or further from each other.

>>Because of this, I've basically decided that I refuse to purchase
>>any more of their upgrades until this problem is addressed.  Any
>>other designers else feel the same way?

> Personally, I also still have 5 on my main work system, but not for
>the same reason. I keep it for some of those .fon fonts that will not
>work in later versions of PSP, though I go into it less and less
>often now as sites that I built with those fonts have been replaced
>with newer designs. As far as spacing between letters though, that's
>relatively easily taken care of with the Kerning adjustment in the
>text tool in v7. I suggest you take a look at that. Simply move the
>cursor in the text dialog preview area to the space between the two
>letters that you're having trouble with and adjust the Kerning value
>while observing the effect on the image. Will that take care of the
>problem for you?

--
________________________________________________________
A Stroke of Genius  http://www.portraitartist.com    727-738-1688
A Stroke of Genius Portrait Artist Forum  http://forum.portraitartist.com
The top site on the Internet for portrait artists
 
 
 

Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Post by Uni » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 18:16:34



> > Let me get this straight, PSP-5's Text looks very much like text
> > used in
> > one the most popular and professionally used software applications
> > in
> > the world, Photoshop. However, someone at Jasc told you it was not
> > clear
> > enough for them, so they changed it. That makes little sense.

> They told me customers complained about the clarity.

Well, I complained about their lopsided Picture Frames, their defunct
Web Publishing, and their color Saturation control in PSP-7, Cynthia.
But I don't see a single soul at Jasc doing much about fixing them.

Sorry about that. I believe they did fix the Web Publishing in PSP-7.05.
But to obtain that incremental upgrade, I have to buy a whole new Dell
computer.

Nice, huh?

Uni

Quote:

> Cynthia

 
 
 

Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Post by Rick Simo » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:11:57




Quote:> I guess attachments aren't allowed here because a message I sent
> with one went to the newsgroup in the sky.

 I can't speak for anyone else, but this is a non-binaries group and
my news server strips all postings with binaries in them to this
group. I never see them.

Quote:> Anyway, two characters, fine, adjusting kerning is feasible.  But,
> a whole menu?  Not very cost effective.  I'll try a link to the
> image example I tried unsuccessfully to send earlier...PSP5 on the
> left and PSP7 on the right...exact same settings in Bauhaus MD,
> TrueType.  It happens in other fonts as well.

 Why isn't it cost effective? You can apply Kerning to an entire menu
at once if you wish. For example, I just posted an image over in the
alt.binaries.comp-graphics newsgroup with a title of "Attn: Cynthia -
text sample". I don't have Bauhaus MD on my system, so I grabbed
Bauhaus 93 instead and laid part of your menu down in PSP5 on the
left. I didn't spend a lot of time at it, but it looks pretty similar
to your menu, as far as character size, line spacing, character
weight, etc.

 Then I opened the same image up in PSP7 and used the same font to
put in the text on the right. Same font, same size/weight, etc.
Before clicking on the OK button to apply the text to the image
however, I selected all of the text within the dialog (CTRL+A) and
set Kerning to -18. That adjusted kerning for all of the text at
once. While the results are not exactly the same as what I got from
PSP5, they're pretty close. I might have been able to get it a little
closer, but I didn't spend much time experimenting with kerning to
see if I could get an exact match.

--
Rick Simon

 
 
 

Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Post by Uni » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 21:28:28





> > I guess attachments aren't allowed here because a message I sent
> > with one went to the newsgroup in the sky.

>  I can't speak for anyone else, but this is a non-binaries group and
> my news server strips all postings with binaries in them to this
> group. I never see them.

> > Anyway, two characters, fine, adjusting kerning is feasible.  But,
> > a whole menu?  Not very cost effective.  I'll try a link to the
> > image example I tried unsuccessfully to send earlier...PSP5 on the
> > left and PSP7 on the right...exact same settings in Bauhaus MD,
> > TrueType.  It happens in other fonts as well.

>  Why isn't it cost effective? You can apply Kerning to an entire menu
> at once if you wish. For example, I just posted an image over in the
> alt.binaries.comp-graphics newsgroup with a title of "Attn: Cynthia -
> text sample". I don't have Bauhaus MD on my system, so I grabbed
> Bauhaus 93 instead and laid part of your menu down in PSP5 on the
> left. I didn't spend a lot of time at it, but it looks pretty similar
> to your menu, as far as character size, line spacing, character
> weight, etc.

>  Then I opened the same image up in PSP7 and used the same font to
> put in the text on the right. Same font, same size/weight, etc.
> Before clicking on the OK button to apply the text to the image
> however, I selected all of the text within the dialog (CTRL+A) and
> set Kerning to -18. That adjusted kerning for all of the text at
> once. While the results are not exactly the same as what I got from
> PSP5, they're pretty close. I might have been able to get it a little
> closer, but I didn't spend much time experimenting with kerning to
> see if I could get an exact match.

It sounds like you PSP people have to do a lot of struggling to match
Professional looking text in Photoshop.

Not very cost effective, when you're getting paid for your time.

Uni

- Show quoted text -

> --
> Rick Simon


 
 
 

Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Post by Cynthia Danie » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:52:10


Rick,

I looked over at your example.  Did you look at mine?  I used anti-alias
and you did not.  I also used size 8 and you used size 9.

In my sample, the characters are not evenly spaced between each other in
PSP7.  I'm not talking about a kerning issue, I'm talking about spacing
the characters evenly.  Do you see how the "r" is jammed against another
letter and how there's more space between some characters than others?
And this is just an example.  There are other fonts where this happens,
just don't happen to remember off the top of my head what they are right
now.

If you work for Jasc, I have made my statement...until this is
corrected, I won't buy another upgrade.  I've complained about it to
Jasc on the phone.  If they don't feel it's important to correct, then
they lose my business for future upgrades even though I've been using
PSP for six years.

Cynthia




>>I guess attachments aren't allowed here because a message I sent
>>with one went to the newsgroup in the sky.

> I can't speak for anyone else, but this is a non-binaries group and
>my news server strips all postings with binaries in them to this
>group. I never see them.

>>Anyway, two characters, fine, adjusting kerning is feasible.  But,
>>a whole menu?  Not very cost effective.  I'll try a link to the
>>image example I tried unsuccessfully to send earlier...PSP5 on the
>>left and PSP7 on the right...exact same settings in Bauhaus MD,
>>TrueType.  It happens in other fonts as well.

> Why isn't it cost effective? You can apply Kerning to an entire menu
>at once if you wish. For example, I just posted an image over in the
>alt.binaries.comp-graphics newsgroup with a title of "Attn: Cynthia -
>text sample". I don't have Bauhaus MD on my system, so I grabbed
>Bauhaus 93 instead and laid part of your menu down in PSP5 on the
>left. I didn't spend a lot of time at it, but it looks pretty similar
>to your menu, as far as character size, line spacing, character
>weight, etc.

> Then I opened the same image up in PSP7 and used the same font to
>put in the text on the right. Same font, same size/weight, etc.
>Before clicking on the OK button to apply the text to the image
>however, I selected all of the text within the dialog (CTRL+A) and
>set Kerning to -18. That adjusted kerning for all of the text at
>once. While the results are not exactly the same as what I got from
>PSP5, they're pretty close. I might have been able to get it a little
>closer, but I didn't spend much time experimenting with kerning to
>see if I could get an exact match.

 
 
 

Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Post by Cliff Ott » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:34:21



216.168.3.44:



>> I guess attachments aren't allowed here because a message I sent
>> with one went to the newsgroup in the sky.

>  I can't speak for anyone else, but this is a non-binaries group and
> my news server strips all postings with binaries in them to this
> group. I never see them.

Ditto.

[...]

Quote:>  Then I opened the same image up in PSP7 and used the same font to
> put in the text on the right. Same font, same size/weight, etc.
> Before clicking on the OK button to apply the text to the image
> however, I selected all of the text within the dialog (CTRL+A) and
> set Kerning to -18. That adjusted kerning for all of the text at
> once. While the results are not exactly the same as what I got from
> PSP5, they're pretty close. I might have been able to get it a little
> closer, but I didn't spend much time experimenting with kerning to
> see if I could get an exact match.

As Rick did, I tried to duplicate your problem, and like him, I am not
seeing it. The only thing I can think of is that you did not have your text
selected when you tried changing the kerning.

--
Cliff
dashdotdashdotdashdashdash at myrealbox dot com
(think Morse, replace with appropriate symbols)

 
 
 

Font rendering changes - PSP 7 vs. PSP 5

Post by Uni » Sun, 19 Jan 2003 23:55:40



> Rick,

> I looked over at your example.  Did you look at mine?  I used
> anti-alias and you did not.  I also used size 8 and you used size 9.

> In my sample, the characters are not evenly spaced between each other
> in PSP7.  I'm not talking about a kerning issue, I'm talking about
> spacing the characters evenly.  Do you see how the "r" is jammed
> against another letter and how there's more space between some
> characters than others? And this is just an example.  There are other
> fonts where this happens, just don't happen to remember off the top of
> my head what they are right now.

> If you work for Jasc, I have made my statement...until this is
> corrected, I won't buy another upgrade.  I've complained about it to
> Jasc on the phone.  If they don't feel it's important to correct, then
> they lose my business for future upgrades even though I've been using
> PSP for six years.

Things you must learn about the people in this newsgroup, Cynthia:

A.) They tend to place the blame on you, the user, rather than admitting
problems with the software.
B.) They post examples, supposedly done in Paint Shop Pro, but they were
really done with some other application.
C.) If you say too many bad things about Paint Shop Pro, Kris Zaklika,
from Jasc Software, Inc. will send you * e-mails, to scare you out
of this newsgroup, so you won't continue to make his software look bad.

Uni

- Show quoted text -

> Cynthia




> >> I guess attachments aren't allowed here because a message I sent
> >> with one went to the newsgroup in the sky.

> >  I can't speak for anyone else, but this is a non-binaries group and
> > my news server strips all postings with binaries in them to this
> > group. I never see them.

> >> Anyway, two characters, fine, adjusting kerning is feasible.  But,
> >> a whole menu?  Not very cost effective.  I'll try a link to the
> >> image example I tried unsuccessfully to send earlier...PSP5 on the
> >> left and PSP7 on the right...exact same settings in Bauhaus MD,
> >> TrueType.  It happens in other fonts as well.

> >  Why isn't it cost effective? You can apply Kerning to an entire
> > menu
> > at once if you wish. For example, I just posted an image over in the
> > alt.binaries.comp-graphics newsgroup with a title of "Attn: Cynthia
> > -
> > text sample". I don't have Bauhaus MD on my system, so I grabbed
> > Bauhaus 93 instead and laid part of your menu down in PSP5 on the
> > left. I didn't spend a lot of time at it, but it looks pretty
> > similar
> > to your menu, as far as character size, line spacing, character
> > weight, etc.

> >  Then I opened the same image up in PSP7 and used the same font to
> > put in the text on the right. Same font, same size/weight, etc.
> > Before clicking on the OK button to apply the text to the image
> > however, I selected all of the text within the dialog (CTRL+A) and
> > set Kerning to -18. That adjusted kerning for all of the text at
> > once. While the results are not exactly the same as what I got from
> > PSP5, they're pretty close. I might have been able to get it a
> > little
> > closer, but I didn't spend much time experimenting with kerning to
> > see if I could get an exact match.

 
 
 

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