JASC re: S3 video problems in PSP6

JASC re: S3 video problems in PSP6

Post by David and/or Jackie Laderout » Tue, 01 Feb 2000 04:00:00



On Tue, 01 Feb 2000 01:03:03 GMT, Chuck Anderson


>Having had a totally useless email exchange with someone at JASC tech
>support (I won't mention names, but the grammar was so bad that his
>ramblings were nearly incomprehensible, and he never did understand
>what my problem was.  A true slacker, if 'er I heard one :-)

Well, don't mention names to us, but you might want Jasc to know.  I'd
hate their tech support to slide to the level of other "shall remain
nameless" software companies.

Quote:>... can someone please respond here.  Is the previously documented
>(from Beta testing days) S3 video problem being addressed?  Will it be
>addressed?  Has anyone found a cure?  Newer driver?

I've since changed cards, but remember the problem all too well.  I
don't believe Jasc ever mentioned a fix.

I had the problem, and fixed it with an _older_ driver.  Specifically, I
dumped my newer S3 driver and replaced it with the standard version off
the Win 98 CD.

Quote:>The biggest, and only effect that I see is in the layers palette, and
>it can be EXTREMELY frustrating when you cannot see what layer is
>currently active without clicking in the midst of the jumble of video
>noise, which randomly selects some other layer, so now, you'll never
>know.

>Any hope for a fix . . . solution . . .  work-around?  Alms, so I can
>buy a new video card?     :-)     (I want one that does DVD and will
>handle a large monitor, should I ever get one.)

Will compute for food?  Seriously, PSP wasn't the only program that
showed this problem for me, and I had reverted to the old driver prior
to beta testing PSP - but when I saw the problems reported, I loaded the
latest drivers for the S3 and the problems returned.  Replaced them
again with the version from Win98 and they cleared up... best I can say
is that it worked for me, and it's a relatively easy thing to try. (You
may have to boot to DOS to remove all the old drivers, but it's not too
onerous).

Good luck!

Jackie

--
< o \"/  Don't play cat and mouse with me!                            (


********************************************************************/\o/\

 
 
 

JASC re: S3 video problems in PSP6

Post by Chuck Anderso » Wed, 02 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Having had a totally useless email exchange with someone at JASC tech
support (I won't mention names, but the grammar was so bad that his
ramblings were nearly incomprehensible, and he never did understand
what my problem was.  A true slacker, if 'er I heard one :-)

... can someone please respond here.  Is the previously documented
(from Beta testing days) S3 video problem being addressed?  Will it be
addressed?  Has anyone found a cure?  Newer driver?

The biggest, and only effect that I see is in the layers palette, and
it can be EXTREMELY frustrating when you cannot see what layer is
currently active without clicking in the midst of the jumble of video
noise, which randomly selects some other layer, so now, you'll never
know.

Any hope for a fix . . . solution . . .  work-around?  Alms, so I can
buy a new video card?     :-)     (I want one that does DVD and will
handle a large monitor, should I ever get one.)

 ********************************************************************
 Chuck Anderson    chuck-anderso-at-earthlink-dot-net (remove dashes)
 Boulder, CO       http://home.earthlink.net/~chuckanderso
 Tolerance is recognizing that other people have different ideals
 and needs than you. Compromise is acting on that knowledge.
 *****************************************************

 
 
 

JASC re: S3 video problems in PSP6

Post by Ramona Pruit » Wed, 02 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Hi Chuck,

I'm one of the ones that had that problem also (I have the S3 Virge). As
far as I know, there hasn't been a fix. I had no luck with changing
drivers.

One way I've found around the problem is this: When your layer palette
goes into the *jumbled noise* mode, grab the title bar of the layer
palette with the cursor and drag the palette down until the noise part
is off screen. When you pull it back onscreen, the noise will be gone
and you can see your layers without having clicked on any of them.

Hope that helps,
-Ramona


> Having had a totally useless email exchange with someone at JASC tech
> support (I won't mention names, but the grammar was so bad that his
> ramblings were nearly incomprehensible, and he never did understand
> what my problem was.  A true slacker, if 'er I heard one :-)

> ... can someone please respond here.  Is the previously documented
> (from Beta testing days) S3 video problem being addressed?  Will it be
> addressed?  Has anyone found a cure?  Newer driver?

> The biggest, and only effect that I see is in the layers palette, and
> it can be EXTREMELY frustrating when you cannot see what layer is
> currently active without clicking in the midst of the jumble of video
> noise, which randomly selects some other layer, so now, you'll never
> know.

> Any hope for a fix . . . solution . . .  work-around?  Alms, so I can
> buy a new video card?     :-)     (I want one that does DVD and will
> handle a large monitor, should I ever get one.)

>  ********************************************************************
>  Chuck Anderson    chuck-anderso-at-earthlink-dot-net (remove dashes)
>  Boulder, CO       http://home.earthlink.net/~chuckanderso
>  Tolerance is recognizing that other people have different ideals
>  and needs than you. Compromise is acting on that knowledge.
>  *****************************************************

 
 
 

JASC re: S3 video problems in PSP6

Post by Ramona Pruit » Wed, 02 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Hi Chuck,

Me again.  :)  It also usually clears up the noise if you hit the Tab
key to hide the palettes, and then hit it again to bring them back.
That's a little faster sometimes. I just got in the habit of dragging it
off screen myself.

-Ramona


> Hi Chuck,

> I'm one of the ones that had that problem also (I have the S3 Virge). As
> far as I know, there hasn't been a fix. I had no luck with changing
> drivers.

> One way I've found around the problem is this: When your layer palette
> goes into the *jumbled noise* mode, grab the title bar of the layer
> palette with the cursor and drag the palette down until the noise part
> is off screen. When you pull it back onscreen, the noise will be gone
> and you can see your layers without having clicked on any of them.

> Hope that helps,
> -Ramona


> > Having had a totally useless email exchange with someone at JASC tech
> > support (I won't mention names, but the grammar was so bad that his
> > ramblings were nearly incomprehensible, and he never did understand
> > what my problem was.  A true slacker, if 'er I heard one :-)

> > ... can someone please respond here.  Is the previously documented
> > (from Beta testing days) S3 video problem being addressed?  Will it be
> > addressed?  Has anyone found a cure?  Newer driver?

> > The biggest, and only effect that I see is in the layers palette, and
> > it can be EXTREMELY frustrating when you cannot see what layer is
> > currently active without clicking in the midst of the jumble of video
> > noise, which randomly selects some other layer, so now, you'll never
> > know.

> > Any hope for a fix . . . solution . . .  work-around?  Alms, so I can
> > buy a new video card?     :-)     (I want one that does DVD and will
> > handle a large monitor, should I ever get one.)

> >  ********************************************************************
> >  Chuck Anderson    chuck-anderso-at-earthlink-dot-net (remove dashes)
> >  Boulder, CO       http://home.earthlink.net/~chuckanderso
> >  Tolerance is recognizing that other people have different ideals
> >  and needs than you. Compromise is acting on that knowledge.
> >  *****************************************************

 
 
 

JASC re: S3 video problems in PSP6

Post by Chuck Anderso » Wed, 02 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Thanks!  At least a work-around.  The Tab trick didn't work for me, but
dragging it off screen and back did.  That'll come in handy.


> Hi Chuck,

> Me again.  :)  It also usually clears up the noise if you hit the Tab
> key to hide the palettes, and then hit it again to bring them back.
> That's a little faster sometimes. I just got in the habit of dragging it
> off screen myself.

> -Ramona


> > Hi Chuck,

> > I'm one of the ones that had that problem also (I have the S3 Virge). As
> > far as I know, there hasn't been a fix. I had no luck with changing
> > drivers.

> > One way I've found around the problem is this: When your layer palette
> > goes into the *jumbled noise* mode, grab the title bar of the layer
> > palette with the cursor and drag the palette down until the noise part
> > is off screen. When you pull it back onscreen, the noise will be gone
> > and you can see your layers without having clicked on any of them.

> > Hope that helps,
> > -Ramona


> > > Having had a totally useless email exchange with someone at JASC tech
> > > support (I won't mention names, but the grammar was so bad that his
> > > ramblings were nearly incomprehensible, and he never did understand
> > > what my problem was.  A true slacker, if 'er I heard one :-)

> > > ... can someone please respond here.  Is the previously documented
> > > (from Beta testing days) S3 video problem being addressed?  Will it be
> > > addressed?  Has anyone found a cure?  Newer driver?

> > > The biggest, and only effect that I see is in the layers palette, and
> > > it can be EXTREMELY frustrating when you cannot see what layer is
> > > currently active without clicking in the midst of the jumble of video
> > > noise, which randomly selects some other layer, so now, you'll never
> > > know.

> > > Any hope for a fix . . . solution . . .  work-around?  Alms, so I can
> > > buy a new video card?     :-)     (I want one that does DVD and will
> > > handle a large monitor, should I ever get one.)

> > >  ********************************************************************
> > >  Chuck Anderson    chuck-anderso-at-earthlink-dot-net (remove dashes)
> > >  Boulder, CO       http://home.earthlink.net/~chuckanderso
> > >  Tolerance is recognizing that other people have different ideals
> > >  and needs than you. Compromise is acting on that knowledge.
> > >  *****************************************************

--
 ********************************************************************
 Chuck Anderson    chuck-anderso-at-earthlink-dot-net (remove dashes)
 Boulder, CO       http://home.earthlink.net/~chuckanderso
 Tolerance is recognizing that other people have different ideals
 and needs than you. Compromise is acting on that knowledge.
 *****************************************************
 
 
 

JASC re: S3 video problems in PSP6

Post by Chuck Anderso » Wed, 02 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Hmmmmm.  I think I still have a floppy with my old drivers on it.  I may give
that a try. (Or look on my Win95 CD?)

Thanks.

Ramona's "fix" may be easier, but now I'm curious.  I'll have to try the
older drivers one of these days.


> On Tue, 01 Feb 2000 01:03:03 GMT, Chuck Anderson

> >Having had a totally useless email exchange with someone at JASC tech
> >support (I won't mention names, but the grammar was so bad that his
> >ramblings were nearly incomprehensible, and he never did understand
> >what my problem was.  A true slacker, if 'er I heard one :-)

> Well, don't mention names to us, but you might want Jasc to know.  I'd
> hate their tech support to slide to the level of other "shall remain
> nameless" software companies.

> >... can someone please respond here.  Is the previously documented
> >(from Beta testing days) S3 video problem being addressed?  Will it be
> >addressed?  Has anyone found a cure?  Newer driver?

> I've since changed cards, but remember the problem all too well.  I
> don't believe Jasc ever mentioned a fix.

> I had the problem, and fixed it with an _older_ driver.  Specifically, I
> dumped my newer S3 driver and replaced it with the standard version off
> the Win 98 CD.

> >The biggest, and only effect that I see is in the layers palette, and
> >it can be EXTREMELY frustrating when you cannot see what layer is
> >currently active without clicking in the midst of the jumble of video
> >noise, which randomly selects some other layer, so now, you'll never
> >know.

> >Any hope for a fix . . . solution . . .  work-around?  Alms, so I can
> >buy a new video card?     :-)     (I want one that does DVD and will
> >handle a large monitor, should I ever get one.)

> Will compute for food?  Seriously, PSP wasn't the only program that
> showed this problem for me, and I had reverted to the old driver prior
> to beta testing PSP - but when I saw the problems reported, I loaded the
> latest drivers for the S3 and the problems returned.  Replaced them
> again with the version from Win98 and they cleared up... best I can say
> is that it worked for me, and it's a relatively easy thing to try. (You
> may have to boot to DOS to remove all the old drivers, but it's not too
> onerous).

> Good luck!

> Jackie

> --
> < o \"/  Don't play cat and mouse with me!                            (


> ********************************************************************/\o/\

--
 ********************************************************************
 Chuck Anderson    chuck-anderso-at-earthlink-dot-net (remove dashes)
 Boulder, CO       http://home.earthlink.net/~chuckanderso
 Tolerance is recognizing that other people have different ideals
 and needs than you. Compromise is acting on that knowledge.
 *****************************************************
 
 
 

JASC re: S3 video problems in PSP6

Post by Cha » Wed, 02 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Quote:>... can someone please respond here.  Is the previously documented
>(from Beta testing days) S3 video problem being addressed?  Will it be
>addressed?  Has anyone found a cure?  Newer driver?

Chuck, I would love to know this also!   I think we are orphans because my
question as to a fix has remained unanswered by JASC.  I don't want to be a
whiner but this isn't an occasional  minor annoyance, its a big one because I
always use layers.  I remember during the beta testing that quite a few people
had the problem, has anyone found a fix?  JASC, it would be much appreciated if
we could get an official response.  Puhleeeeze!!!!

Quote:>^..^<Char

My Terragen Galleries...
http://members.xoom.com/CharGC
 
 
 

JASC re: S3 video problems in PSP6

Post by David Beard » Wed, 02 Feb 2000 04:00:00


I have a s3 Virge and never had a single problem with PSP 6 from beta to
present.

Dave

--

"Razzle Dazzle 'em, and they'll make you a star".

=======David Beards========

======HOME PAGE=======
http://www.users.bigpond.com/davewb
=======================


> Hi Chuck,

> I'm one of the ones that had that problem also (I have the S3 Virge). As
> far as I know, there hasn't been a fix. I had no luck with changing
> drivers.

> One way I've found around the problem is this: When your layer palette
> goes into the *jumbled noise* mode, grab the title bar of the layer
> palette with the cursor and drag the palette down until the noise part
> is off screen. When you pull it back onscreen, the noise will be gone
> and you can see your layers without having clicked on any of them.

> Hope that helps,
> -Ramona


> > Having had a totally useless email exchange with someone at JASC tech
> > support (I won't mention names, but the grammar was so bad that his
> > ramblings were nearly incomprehensible, and he never did understand
> > what my problem was.  A true slacker, if 'er I heard one :-)

> > ... can someone please respond here.  Is the previously documented
> > (from Beta testing days) S3 video problem being addressed?  Will it be
> > addressed?  Has anyone found a cure?  Newer driver?

> > The biggest, and only effect that I see is in the layers palette, and
> > it can be EXTREMELY frustrating when you cannot see what layer is
> > currently active without clicking in the midst of the jumble of video
> > noise, which randomly selects some other layer, so now, you'll never
> > know.

> > Any hope for a fix . . . solution . . .  work-around?  Alms, so I can
> > buy a new video card?     :-)     (I want one that does DVD and will
> > handle a large monitor, should I ever get one.)

> >  ********************************************************************
> >  Chuck Anderson    chuck-anderso-at-earthlink-dot-net (remove dashes)
> >  Boulder, CO       http://home.earthlink.net/~chuckanderso
> >  Tolerance is recognizing that other people have different ideals
> >  and needs than you. Compromise is acting on that knowledge.
> >  *****************************************************

 
 
 

JASC re: S3 video problems in PSP6

Post by Joe From » Wed, 02 Feb 2000 04:00:00


I did some research on it during the beta period, but I guess I never said
anything to the group.
We had one machine in our lab with the S3 card, and we could recreate the
problem on that.  Unfortunately, it does appear to be a driver issue on the
S3 card.  The calls we make in the layer palette code are quite
straightforward, and work on all of the other cards we know of.  I looked at
the code to see if I was doing anything strange, or if there was an obvious
way to refactor the code so that it was expressed in a different way.  I
didn't find any that would not involve rewrites of large sections of the LP
paint code.

I feel fairly safe at pointing the finger at S3 and saying it is a problem
with their drivers. If I could have found a simple workaround in our code I
would have been happy to implement it, but late in the beta I couldn't take
the days of time it would require to essentially change things at random
looking for the magic bullet.

At this point we do not have plans to look at it any further.  Sorry I don't
have better news.

--
Joe Fromm
Senior Software Engineer
Jasc Software, Inc



Quote:> Having had a totally useless email exchange with someone at JASC tech
> support (I won't mention names, but the grammar was so bad that his
> ramblings were nearly incomprehensible, and he never did understand
> what my problem was.  A true slacker, if 'er I heard one :-)

> ... can someone please respond here.  Is the previously documented
> (from Beta testing days) S3 video problem being addressed?  Will it be
> addressed?  Has anyone found a cure?  Newer driver?

> The biggest, and only effect that I see is in the layers palette, and
> it can be EXTREMELY frustrating when you cannot see what layer is
> currently active without clicking in the midst of the jumble of video
> noise, which randomly selects some other layer, so now, you'll never
> know.

> Any hope for a fix . . . solution . . .  work-around?  Alms, so I can
> buy a new video card?     :-)     (I want one that does DVD and will
> handle a large monitor, should I ever get one.)

>  ********************************************************************
>  Chuck Anderson    chuck-anderso-at-earthlink-dot-net (remove dashes)
>  Boulder, CO       http://home.earthlink.net/~chuckanderso
>  Tolerance is recognizing that other people have different ideals
>  and needs than you. Compromise is acting on that knowledge.
>  *****************************************************

 
 
 

JASC re: S3 video problems in PSP6

Post by ot.. » Wed, 02 Feb 2000 04:00:00




Quote:>I have a s3 Virge and never had a single problem with PSP 6 from beta to
>present.

My current system came with an s3 Virge card and I had trouble getting
through a game of Hearts without severe video problems. I had the card
replaced with one using the Intel chipset, but that didn't work well
(too slow). Finally, I got a Matrox Millenium and the system loved it.
I think some of the problems stem from motherboard/video card
incompatability. (P-II/450 w/128MB RAM)

co

 
 
 

JASC re: S3 video problems in PSP6

Post by Chuck Anderso » Thu, 03 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Joe,

That's a more than satisfactory answer to me.  Thanks for addressing my
question.  I like the "drag-the-layers-palette-out-of-view-and-back" solution.
It solves my problem (except I'll get Carpal tunnel syndrome from all the extra
mouse motion  :-)  :-)

I'm going to try reloading the older drivers too, and see if that also works for
me.

And (geez, no alms?) I'll probably be getting a new video card before too long
anyway, as it looks like the most cost-effective way to get DVD TV; seeing as
how I'll be getting a bigger monitor (need more video memory) sometime this
year.

(With DVD, and a slower processor, you need a dedicated DVD decoder card, or you
can get a video card that is capable of the same.)

Thanks,
  Chuck


> I did some research on it during the beta period, but I guess I never said
> anything to the group.
> We had one machine in our lab with the S3 card, and we could recreate the
> problem on that.  Unfortunately, it does appear to be a driver issue on the
> S3 card.  The calls we make in the layer palette code are quite
> straightforward, and work on all of the other cards we know of.  I looked at
> the code to see if I was doing anything strange, or if there was an obvious
> way to refactor the code so that it was expressed in a different way.  I
> didn't find any that would not involve rewrites of large sections of the LP
> paint code.

> I feel fairly safe at pointing the finger at S3 and saying it is a problem
> with their drivers. If I could have found a simple workaround in our code I
> would have been happy to implement it, but late in the beta I couldn't take
> the days of time it would require to essentially change things at random
> looking for the magic bullet.

> At this point we do not have plans to look at it any further.  Sorry I don't
> have better news.

> --
> Joe Fromm
> Senior Software Engineer
> Jasc Software, Inc



> > Having had a totally useless email exchange with someone at JASC tech
> > support (I won't mention names, but the grammar was so bad that his
> > ramblings were nearly incomprehensible, and he never did understand
> > what my problem was.  A true slacker, if 'er I heard one :-)

> > ... can someone please respond here.  Is the previously documented
> > (from Beta testing days) S3 video problem being addressed?  Will it be
> > addressed?  Has anyone found a cure?  Newer driver?

> > The biggest, and only effect that I see is in the layers palette, and
> > it can be EXTREMELY frustrating when you cannot see what layer is
> > currently active without clicking in the midst of the jumble of video
> > noise, which randomly selects some other layer, so now, you'll never
> > know.

> > Any hope for a fix . . . solution . . .  work-around?  Alms, so I can
> > buy a new video card?     :-)     (I want one that does DVD and will
> > handle a large monitor, should I ever get one.)

--
 ********************************************************************
 Chuck Anderson    chuck-anderso-at-earthlink-dot-net (remove dashes)
 Boulder, CO       http://home.earthlink.net/~chuckanderso
 Tolerance is recognizing that other people have different ideals
 and needs than you. Compromise is acting on that knowledge.
 *****************************************************
 
 
 

JASC re: S3 video problems in PSP6

Post by Cha » Thu, 03 Feb 2000 04:00:00


Quote:>I'm going to try reloading the older drivers too, and see if that also works
>for
>me.

If anyone has a S3 card and a driver that works with PSP could you please
contact me off list?  Thanks!
(And thanks Joe for the reply.)
Quote:>^..^<Char

My Terragen Galleries...
http://members.xoom.com/CharGC
 
 
 

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