Need help choosing a primary animation app

Need help choosing a primary animation app

Post by Peter Mitt » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00



I've been using Caligari trueSpace since version 2.0.
Currently I use tS4.3 mainly for GUI graphics design
and the occasional promotional video for our company.
These videos are usually 3D animations about 5-10 minutes
in length. So far it has been mostly mechanical and non-
boned objects, but I'm going to do more character modeling
and animation in addition to mechanics.

I haven't been completely(...) happy with trueSpace's
capabilities when it comes to slightly larger scenes, even
though the interface is very easy to work with.
At the moment I'm looking to move to a more stable platform
as tS5 is still some way into the future...

So, any suggestions?
Maya and SoftImage at least *seem* a bit out of my league
due to their heavy price tags.
Lightwave 6 looks promising, but hasn't surfaced yet.
BTW when is it supposed to be realeased anyway?
3D Studio MAX R3 is out there and looks better than before.
Perhaps you could even get something done without buying all
the plugins available first... Also, I'm used to an all-in-one
UI from tS so the Modeler/Layout separation in LW seems a bit
odd to me.

Here are some things which are important to me:

- Usable straight out of the box, possibly with the addition
  of *free* plugins/scripts.
- Reasonably easy to extend throught scripts etc.
- Decent importing of 3D CAD models, mostly from SolidWorks
- Customizable user interface.
- Speed and stability (ie. no huge slow-downs or crashes) with
  large scenes.
- Fast, 'clean', fluid user interface. Perhaps tS has spoiled me,
  but wading through lots of menus isn't my idea of modeling.
- Good (character) animation tools. Bones, motion curves, morphing.
- Good network and batch rendering capabilities.

I would be *very* thankful for any opinions you have.
I'd like to get a tool which I can stick with.

Thanks,
                Peter M.


--
Peter Mitts
Software Developer / EG&G Wallac

 
 
 

Need help choosing a primary animation app

Post by MiG » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00


Quote:> So, any suggestions?
> Maya and SoftImage at least *seem* a bit out of my league
> due to their heavy price tags.

I wouldn't recommend it one of them....

Quote:> Lightwave 6 looks promising, but hasn't surfaced yet.

It is quite promosing, a bit lame though but....
LightWave 3D gets things that other apps like 3D Studio (MAX), SOFTIMAGE|3D,
Maya etc. allready have like UV(W)-mapping etc.

Quote:> BTW when is it supposed to be realeased anyway?

Nope!

Quote:> 3D Studio MAX R3 is out there and looks better than before.

Those bastards ripped the Maya interface off for that f**king 3D Studio MAX,
I hate 3D Studio MAX, you could better hang on to LightWave 3D then 3D
Studio MAX.

Quote:> Perhaps you could even get something done without buying all
> the plugins available first... Also, I'm used to an all-in-one
> UI from tS so the Modeler/Layout separation in LW seems a bit
> odd to me.

Yeah I know, but you get used to it when you start using it....

Quote:> Here are some things which are important to me:

> - Usable straight out of the box, possibly with the addition
>   of *free* plugins/scripts.
> - Reasonably easy to extend throught scripts etc.
> - Decent importing of 3D CAD models, mostly from SolidWorks
> - Customizable user interface.
> - Speed and stability (ie. no huge slow-downs or crashes) with
>   large scenes.
> - Fast, 'clean', fluid user interface. Perhaps tS has spoiled me,
>   but wading through lots of menus isn't my idea of modeling.
> - Good (character) animation tools. Bones, motion curves, morphing.
> - Good network and batch rendering capabilities.

> I would be *very* thankful for any opinions you have.
> I'd like to get a tool which I can stick with.

I've got the perfect combination!!

- Buy Rhinoceros (first try the *free* beta version) at:
http://www.rhinoceros.com --- It's together with Maya and SOFTIMAGE|3D the
best modeler I ever seen, it exports and imports almost everything!
But doesn't contain animation....

- Download BMRT RenderMan at: http://www.bmrt.org --- It's free and has
really great quality, 3D motion blur, hybrid raytracing/radiosity,
subdivision meshes, NURBS rendering etc.! Really powerful. It's a renderer
only and Rhinoceros is able to export it!
Did you ever seen Toy Story, A Bug's Life etc.?? It's rendered also with
RenderMan. But with the PRMan (the Pixar native RenderMan; PhotoRealistic
RenderMan with the REYES algorithm).

- But if you really want to do kick-ass animations for a good budget, I
recommend you LightWave 3D or the cheaper and very powerful Inspire 3D, it's
almost the same!, http://www.newtek.com

Greets,

Marco

 
 
 

Need help choosing a primary animation app

Post by FRANK?? PANUCC » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00


Quote:>>I haven't been completely(...) happy with

trueSpace's
capabilities when it comes to slightly larger
scenes, even
though the interface is very easy to work with.
At the moment I'm looking to move to a more stable
platform
as tS5<<

I moved from tS to Lightwave, after using tS for
three years.  Lightwave provides in every
significant way a much more stable and enjoyable
way to work, with better results.  I was already
getting tired of tS' instability and odd feature
implementation, and now that I've used Lightwave
for a year and a half, tS seems clumsy and useless
in comparison.  Lightwave has crashed on my system
maybe three or four times in eigh* months.  tS
2 and 3 (and briefly when I checked out tS4)
crashed several times a day on the same system.
caligari Tech support said it must have been my
video/sound card/motherboard revision/operator
error/etc that caused all the crashes, but my
other programs are relatively stable.

 You should try INSPIRE, and if you like that,
upgrade to Lightwave.  If you don't like it, get
MAX.  Its interface is kind of similar in ways to
tS, but I think it demands more computer power
than Lightwave, which I ran for a short while on a
Pentium 133 with tolerable speed.

---------------------------------------------

http://www.veryComputer.com/
http://www.veryComputer.com/
---------------------------------------------

 
 
 

Need help choosing a primary animation app

Post by Ian Skinne » Wed, 20 Oct 1999 04:00:00


check out MAXON CINEMA 4D XL .. it would be a nice compliment to your TS
application and has a fast and truly beautiful materials / raytracer
interface , fastest renderer on the market for a PC . I've got it here
and I use for allot of things that MAX can't do or won't do as elegantly
or cleanly . .. www.maxon.com or www.maxon.de ..


> I've been using Caligari trueSpace since version 2.0.
> Currently I use tS4.3 mainly for GUI graphics design
> and the occasional promotional video for our company.
> These videos are usually 3D animations about 5-10 minutes
> in length. So far it has been mostly mechanical and non-
> boned objects, but I'm going to do more character modeling
> and animation in addition to mechanics.

> I haven't been completely(...) happy with trueSpace's
> capabilities when it comes to slightly larger scenes, even
> though the interface is very easy to work with.
> At the moment I'm looking to move to a more stable platform
> as tS5 is still some way into the future...

> So, any suggestions?
> Maya and SoftImage at least *seem* a bit out of my league
> due to their heavy price tags.
> Lightwave 6 looks promising, but hasn't surfaced yet.
> BTW when is it supposed to be realeased anyway?
> 3D Studio MAX R3 is out there and looks better than before.
> Perhaps you could even get something done without buying all
> the plugins available first... Also, I'm used to an all-in-one
> UI from tS so the Modeler/Layout separation in LW seems a bit
> odd to me.

> Here are some things which are important to me:

> - Usable straight out of the box, possibly with the addition
>   of *free* plugins/scripts.
> - Reasonably easy to extend throught scripts etc.
> - Decent importing of 3D CAD models, mostly from SolidWorks
> - Customizable user interface.
> - Speed and stability (ie. no huge slow-downs or crashes) with
>   large scenes.
> - Fast, 'clean', fluid user interface. Perhaps tS has spoiled me,
>   but wading through lots of menus isn't my idea of modeling.
> - Good (character) animation tools. Bones, motion curves, morphing.
> - Good network and batch rendering capabilities.

> I would be *very* thankful for any opinions you have.
> I'd like to get a tool which I can stick with.

> Thanks,
>                 Peter M.


> --
> Peter Mitts
> Software Developer / EG&G Wallac


--
__________________________________________________      

Ian Skinner
ARQUEBUS ENTERTAINMENT
CANADA
1(705)737-3636
fax1(705)722-6908
__________________________________________________


 
 
 

Need help choosing a primary animation app

Post by Wouter Schreuder » Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:00:00


Hey Peter

save up for a while longer and get Softimage. Otherwise Lightwave is
apparently very good(I've not used it myself) I don't like Max3 much, the
interface really stinks!

Anyway

Cheers

Wouter


>I've been using Caligari trueSpace since version 2.0.
>Currently I use tS4.3 mainly for GUI graphics design
>and the occasional promotional video for our company.
>These videos are usually 3D animations about 5-10 minutes
>in length. So far it has been mostly mechanical and non-
>boned objects, but I'm going to do more character modeling
>and animation in addition to mechanics.

>I haven't been completely(...) happy with trueSpace's
>capabilities when it comes to slightly larger scenes, even
>though the interface is very easy to work with.
>At the moment I'm looking to move to a more stable platform
>as tS5 is still some way into the future...

>So, any suggestions?
>Maya and SoftImage at least *seem* a bit out of my league
>due to their heavy price tags.
>Lightwave 6 looks promising, but hasn't surfaced yet.
>BTW when is it supposed to be realeased anyway?
>3D Studio MAX R3 is out there and looks better than before.
>Perhaps you could even get something done without buying all
>the plugins available first... Also, I'm used to an all-in-one
>UI from tS so the Modeler/Layout separation in LW seems a bit
>odd to me.

>Here are some things which are important to me:

>- Usable straight out of the box, possibly with the addition
>  of *free* plugins/scripts.
>- Reasonably easy to extend throught scripts etc.
>- Decent importing of 3D CAD models, mostly from SolidWorks
>- Customizable user interface.
>- Speed and stability (ie. no huge slow-downs or crashes) with
>  large scenes.
>- Fast, 'clean', fluid user interface. Perhaps tS has spoiled me,
>  but wading through lots of menus isn't my idea of modeling.
>- Good (character) animation tools. Bones, motion curves, morphing.
>- Good network and batch rendering capabilities.

>I would be *very* thankful for any opinions you have.
>I'd like to get a tool which I can stick with.

>Thanks,
> Peter M.


>--
>Peter Mitts
>Software Developer / EG&G Wallac


 
 
 

Need help choosing a primary animation app

Post by Ola Madse » Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:00:00


Yes, save enough to buy softimage if your planing to helpout ILM in the
making of the new Starwars, outherwise you would just be waisting your
money. You will get a much better price/preformance from programs like 3D
Studio Max r3 (witch is a great prog with a lovely interface) or LW.

=)


> Hey Peter

> save up for a while longer and get Softimage. Otherwise Lightwave is
> apparently very good(I've not used it myself) I don't like Max3 much, the
> interface really stinks!

> Anyway

> Cheers

> Wouter


> >I've been using Caligari trueSpace since version 2.0.
> >Currently I use tS4.3 mainly for GUI graphics design
> >and the occasional promotional video for our company.
> >These videos are usually 3D animations about 5-10 minutes
> >in length. So far it has been mostly mechanical and non-
> >boned objects, but I'm going to do more character modeling
> >and animation in addition to mechanics.

> >I haven't been completely(...) happy with trueSpace's
> >capabilities when it comes to slightly larger scenes, even
> >though the interface is very easy to work with.
> >At the moment I'm looking to move to a more stable platform
> >as tS5 is still some way into the future...

> >So, any suggestions?
> >Maya and SoftImage at least *seem* a bit out of my league
> >due to their heavy price tags.
> >Lightwave 6 looks promising, but hasn't surfaced yet.
> >BTW when is it supposed to be realeased anyway?
> >3D Studio MAX R3 is out there and looks better than before.
> >Perhaps you could even get something done without buying all
> >the plugins available first... Also, I'm used to an all-in-one
> >UI from tS so the Modeler/Layout separation in LW seems a bit
> >odd to me.

> >Here are some things which are important to me:

> >- Usable straight out of the box, possibly with the addition
> >  of *free* plugins/scripts.
> >- Reasonably easy to extend throught scripts etc.
> >- Decent importing of 3D CAD models, mostly from SolidWorks
> >- Customizable user interface.
> >- Speed and stability (ie. no huge slow-downs or crashes) with
> >  large scenes.
> >- Fast, 'clean', fluid user interface. Perhaps tS has spoiled me,
> >  but wading through lots of menus isn't my idea of modeling.
> >- Good (character) animation tools. Bones, motion curves, morphing.
> >- Good network and batch rendering capabilities.

> >I would be *very* thankful for any opinions you have.
> >I'd like to get a tool which I can stick with.

> >Thanks,
> > Peter M.


> >--
> >Peter Mitts
> >Software Developer / EG&G Wallac


 
 
 

Need help choosing a primary animation app

Post by Ian Skinne » Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:00:00



figure out allot of the shortcuts and tricks on your own then i would
not bother with Softimage .. of course you could take a very very
expensive course offered at very very few schools now .. and considering
where you from .. I'm not sure there's one very close to you .. Give LW
, MAX or C4DXL a try it's a step up from TS4 and MAXON is local to you
in Germany and has a very large following in Europe ..


> Hey Peter

> save up for a while longer and get Softimage. Otherwise Lightwave is
> apparently very good(I've not used it myself) I don't like Max3 much, the
> interface really stinks!

> Anyway

> Cheers

> Wouter

--
__________________________________________________      

Ian Skinner
ARQUEBUS ENTERTAINMENT
CANADA
1(705)737-3636
fax1(705)722-6908
__________________________________________________


 
 
 

Need help choosing a primary animation app

Post by S. Gougousi » Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:00:00


Try Animation Master!
www.hash.com
Only $199 and it is NOT a toy!

S. Gougousis
WWW: http://users.forthnet.gr/her/sogou1

 
 
 

Need help choosing a primary animation app

Post by Peter Mitt » Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:00:00



> Assuming you're sticking with the no Maya and Soft (price considerations) if
> you are going to consider Max, you will need Character Studio, not for the
> lousy footstep animation, but for the skinning tool. Max+CS does do pretty
> much everything out of the box, the plugins now deal with far more specific
> stuff. Max also offers Surface Tools which is a really intuituve and fast
> method of patch modeling, great for those organic things you say you want to
> do.

So the native Skin modifier in MAX3 isn't good enough, then?
I had hoped one could do some decent bones&skin without having to get
CS...
Having to buy CS makes the package a *tad* more expensive.

So, is CS necessary to get professional results?
(And I mean how it handles the bones/skin. Obviously getting the moves
right is up to the person behind the mouse. ;)

        Peter M.
--
Peter Mitts
Software Developer / EG&G Wallac

 
 
 

Need help choosing a primary animation app

Post by Jeffrey Le » Thu, 21 Oct 1999 04:00:00



> So, any suggestions?
> Maya and SoftImage at least *seem* a bit out of my league
> due to their heavy price tags.
> Lightwave 6 looks promising, but hasn't surfaced yet.
> BTW when is it supposed to be realeased anyway?
> 3D Studio MAX R3 is out there and looks better than before.
> Perhaps you could even get something done without buying all
> the plugins available first... Also, I'm used to an all-in-one
> UI from tS so the Modeler/Layout separation in LW seems a bit
> odd to me.

If you're used to Truespace prices, why don't you try out Animation
Master.  It's the main 3D software that I use.  You can check out some
of my work at:  http://www.veryComputer.com/.  It's an excellent
package for characters and organic modeling.  The animation tools are
very advanced and yet very simple.  Also, the software only costs $200,
which isn't out of anyone's league.

Quote:

> Here are some things which are important to me:

> - Usable straight out of the box, possibly with the addition
>   of *free* plugins/scripts.

Yep, very usable.  Version 7.1 has pose sliders, much like Maya's blend
shapes.  It has advanced constraints for cool setups.  The bones and IK
are very capable.  Well, check out www.hash.com for more info.  But let
me tell you, the next version, V8, will have a ton of cool stuff, like
soft body dynamics, cloth, flocking, etc.

Quote:

> - Reasonably easy to extend throught scripts etc.

Hmm, no scripting here, but Hash is a very responsive company.  If you
want a cool feature, they'll probably write one out for the next
version.

Quote:

> - Decent importing of 3D CAD models, mostly from SolidWorks

I'm not familiar with SolidWorks, but AM can import quad polygon dxf
models and convert them to splines.  However, if you have a high polygon
count, it'll be really slow.  Also triangles don't import well.

Quote:

> - Customizable user interface.

You can move windows around all you want in the interface.  It's not as
cutomizable as Poser 4, but it's kinda similar to Maya's layout.

Quote:

> - Speed and stability (ie. no huge slow-downs or crashes) with
>   large scenes.

Well, speed comes with a fast CPU and lots of ram.  It depends how big
your scene is, because it may slow down for heavy scenes, but what
software doesn't?

Quote:

> - Fast, 'clean', fluid user interface. Perhaps tS has spoiled me,
>   but wading through lots of menus isn't my idea of modeling.

AM's modeler is quite simplistic in that it only has a few tools to
use.  It's much like stiching a mesh together and then molding like
clay.  It'll take a while to get used to if you're used to polygons, but
it's extremely powerful.

Quote:

> - Good (character) animation tools. Bones, motion curves, morphing.

Dude.  Bones, motion curves, morphing, that's all child's play.  AM has
advanced bone constraints for awesome character setups.  It also has a
"compensate" mode which lets your character grab a cup, you hit
"compensate" and then the cup is now constrained ot the hand.  You no
longer need a mel scripter to make fancy buttons for you.  You no longer
need to turn on and off constraints.  As for morphing, AM has pose
sliders with inbetweens.  Meaning, you can make a mouth go from closed
to pucker, but with inbetweens, you can set another pose like a pursed
lip in between the pucker and closed pose.  Also, pose sliders work with
bones, so you can have a hand open and close slider, instead of
animating the fingers one by one.

In terms of constraints, AM has 14 of them: Aim at, Kinematic, Path,
Translate to, Orient like, Roll like, Aim roll at, Spherical limits,
Euler limits, translate limits, Surface, Scale like, Aim like two, Aim
roll like two.  If your not familiar with constraints, it's essential
for good character setups.

Quote:

> - Good network and batch rendering capabilities.

The network/batch rendering is availible from the network version of AM,
which is $700.  You just need one license and AM will render on every
computer on the network.

Quote:

> I would be *very* thankful for any opinions you have.
> I'd like to get a tool which I can stick with.

I would suggest checking out the $200 verison at least.  If you don't
like it, just return it.  Hash will give you 30 days to return it.  If
you want to see samples of what people are doing with it, check out the
Hash site or visit my web site.  If you do like it, the amount of money
you save from buying the more expensive software, you can buy a kick
*computer!

--
Jeffrey Lew
http://www.veryComputer.com/
3D Character Animation

 
 
 

1. Need help choosing a primary animation app

I've been using Caligari trueSpace since version 2.0.
Currently I use tS4.3 mainly for GUI graphics design
and the occasional promotional video for our company.
These videos are usually 3D animations about 5-10 minutes
in length. So far it has been mostly mechanical and non-
boned objects, but I'm going to do more character modeling
and animation in addition to mechanics.

I haven't been completely(...) happy with trueSpace's
capabilities when it comes to slightly larger scenes, even
though the interface is very easy to work with.
At the moment I'm looking to move to a more stable platform
as tS5 is still some way into the future...

So, any suggestions?
Maya and SoftImage at least *seem* a bit out of my league
due to their heavy price tags.
Lightwave 6 looks promising, but hasn't surfaced yet.
BTW when is it supposed to be realeased anyway?
3D Studio MAX R3 is out there and looks better than before.
Perhaps you could even get something done without buying all
the plugins available first... Also, I'm used to an all-in-one
UI from tS so the Modeler/Layout separation in LW seems a bit
odd to me.

Here are some things which are important to me:

- Usable straight out of the box, possibly with the addition
  of *free* plugins/scripts.
- Reasonably easy to extend throught scripts etc.
- Decent importing of 3D CAD models, mostly from SolidWorks
- Customizable user interface.
- Speed and stability (ie. no huge slow-downs or crashes) with
  large scenes.
- Fast, 'clean', fluid user interface. Perhaps tS has spoiled me,
  but wading through lots of menus isn't my idea of modeling.
- Good (character) animation tools. Bones, motion curves, morphing.
- Good network and batch rendering capabilities.

I would be *very* thankful for any opinions you have.
I'd like to get a tool which I can stick with.

Thanks,
                Peter M.


--
Peter Mitts
Software Developer / EG&G Wallac

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