Very Computer

I'm just getting serious about scanning negatives for display and printing.
I've used PSP for a couple years for other purposes.  Win2000sp1, HP970Cxi,
PSP7.

Two colors giving me problems are blue and yellow.  For blue, the monitor
shows quite a correct shade of blue compared to the actual object - a darker
grayish blue (tough in words, hey?).  But printing shifts that blue to one
with more cyan (pretty sure) in it.

I've tried turning Color Mgt on and off using sRGB on monitor and printer -
no difference.  I peeked at CMYK Conversions, but backed off with poor
understanding and fear of screwing something up.

Anybody have some advice on this?  Or point me to some resource that is
practical instead of theoretical?

Thanks...
                rick

Quote:> I'm just getting serious about scanning negatives for display
> and printing. I've used PSP for a couple years for other
> purposes.  Win2000sp1, HP970Cxi, PSP7.
> Two colors giving me problems are blue and yellow.  For blue,
> the monitor shows quite a correct shade of blue compared to
> the actual object - a darker grayish blue (tough in words,
> hey?).  But printing shifts that blue to one with more cyan
> (pretty sure) in it.

Just to check - the problem is that the printed colours don't match the
colours on the screen?

Quote:> I've tried turning Color Mgt on and off using sRGB on monitor
> and printer - no difference.

Using sRGB default profiles is unlikely to make any difference.  The HP
printer should come with its own default profile - you could try using
it and the sRGB monitor profile.  Make sure that if you use profiles in
the Colour Management settings that you print using ICM in your printer
driver.

Quote:> I peeked at CMYK Conversions, but backed off with poor
> understanding and fear of screwing something up.

PSP isn't a CMYK editor, so it's best to stay away from CMYK.

Quote:> Anybody have some advice on this?  Or point me to some
> resource that is practical instead of theoretical?

I've posted quite a lot on the subject of colour management in the past
in this newsgroup.  Try a search using dejanews (www.deja.com) - in the
power search you can restrict the search to this newsgroup, and use the
search words "colour management".

Basically what it comes down to is that you'll only get a good match
between the screen and paper if you profile the screen and the printer
and change the colour management settings in Windows and PSP to use
those profiles.  The cheapest package I'm aware of is Wiziwyg - I think
it's about US$80.  The monitor configuration section of Wiziwyg isn't
the greatest.  If you can afford to spend more money, have a look at
the "ProveIt!" package for setting up the monitor, and use Wiziwyg for
the printer.  The *best* monitor profiling packages come with a
colorimeter to measure the colours directly off the screen.  If you are
considering more expensive options that Wiziwyg and ProveIt!, make sure
they will work with PSP.  You will need a flatbed scanner to profile
the printer - and from painful experience I know that HP and Canon
scanners do *not* work well for this purpose.  Umax, Epson or Microtek
are probably better.

Sorry I don't have a simple answer, but it's not a simple topic. :(

If you want some useful info about colour management, have a look in
the support database on Adobe's web site for it.  There's some
excellent documentation there about what the different terms in colour
management means, how it works, and other issues.

Rob
--
http://wordweb.com

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

writes:

I don't know whether this will help or not - I have HP Deskjet 722C and I had
the same problems with printing from PSP (darker and offcolor prints) until I
changed my printer settings:
Go to your printer "Properties"
Select the "Color" tab and set to Manual (instead of Automatic)
Select the "Color Management" tab and set to Automatic and no color profiles
associated with the printer.

Hopefully, your Properties tabs are the same as mine.
My prints are all very close to the colors I see in PSP and no longer too dark.

         Barb

Quote:> Select the "Color" tab and set to Manual (instead of Automatic)

This bit makes sense since ICM should be used.

Quote:> Select the "Color Management" tab and set to Automatic and
> no color profiles associated with the printer.

This bit amazes me if you say you're not using profiles anywhere but
still getting good colour matching.  The only thing I can guess is that
the "automatic" setting in the driver selects the default profile for
the printer.  Are you using profiles in the PSP colour management
settings?

Rob

PS If it works, I'm certainly not going to tell anyone *not* to do it!
--
http://wordweb.com

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

I have the same printer but I don't have an 'Automatic' setting under my
Color Management tab. All I have are Add and Remove buttons to add or
remove profiles. I currently have no profiles set there.
Under the Colors tab (ColorSmart II), if I click the Options button
after selecting Manual, I get a window to set Intensity and Haltoning. I
also have an ICM (Image Color Matching) checkbox under the Colors tab.

Quote:

> Hopefully, your Properties tabs are the same as mine.
> My prints are all very close to the colors I see in PSP and no longer too dark.

>          Barb

--
Bill - PSP 7, PSP 6, and Media Center Plus Private Beta Tester
PSP Terrorist - D'Lanok de Caresk chapter - Anti-Troll Unit 235
"If you're not making waves, you're not underway!"
--------------------------------------------------------------
The new PSP 7 Style Palette:
http://www.frontiernet.net/~willshak/style_palette/
--------------------------------------------------------------
The USS Salem, CA-139. The World's only preserved Heavy Cruiser,
Visit at Quincy, MASS http://www.frontiernet.net/~willshak/salem/

The only profile available/add-able for the 970 is sRGB, probably from
Win2000.

Yes, now that I set to Automatic, it seems to get a close enough match -
whew!  Must be HP's driver does a decent job, afterall, of translating RGB
to CMYK.  ??

        rick

Win 98

Quote:> [...]

--
Bill - PSP 7, PSP 6, and Media Center Plus Private Beta Tester
PSP Terrorist - D'Lanok de Caresk chapter - Anti-Troll Unit 235
"If you're not making waves, you're not underway!"
--------------------------------------------------------------
The new PSP 7 Style Palette:
http://www.frontiernet.net/~willshak/style_palette/
--------------------------------------------------------------
The USS Salem, CA-139. The World's only preserved Heavy Cruiser,
Visit at Quincy, MASS http://www.frontiernet.net/~willshak/salem/

I am using Win 98.
      Barb

Bill, you seem to have different options than I do.  Are you using driver
version 10.3?
         Barb

I do not have color management selected in PSP.  The top of the preferences box
say sRGB Color Space and no checkmark in color management.   I don't know why
but it works great for me after fighting with it for months.
           Barb

Quote:(Barbara J. Bradley) writes:

>>> I have the same printer but I don't have an 'Automatic' setting under my
>>> Color Management tab. All I have are Add and Remove buttons to add or
>>> remove profiles. I currently have no profiles set there.
>>> Under the Colors tab (ColorSmart II), if I click the Options button
>>> after selecting Manual, I get a window to set Intensity and Haltoning. I
>>> also have an ICM (Image Color Matching) checkbox under the Colors tab.

>Bill, you seem to have different options than I do.  Are you using driver
>version 10.3?
>         Barb

After looking at the printer Properties tabs again . . .    Maybe my setting of
Automatic in the Color Management tab doesn't make any difference.   The
options I have are:
Automatic . .  Windows will automatically select the best color profile from
the list of                      associated color profiles (Recommended)
Manual . . . .   Manually select the default color profile for all output from
this device
                     from the list of associated color profiles.

                Default color profile - none

I know it definitely made a difference when I selected manual instead of
automatic in the Color tab for ColorSmart II.    Clicking on options - I have
Intensity set in the middle and Halftoning set to Scatter.

Are you having any problems with your color printing from PSP?
          Barb

Quote:> I do not have color management selected in PSP.  The top of the
> preferences box say sRGB Color Space and no checkmark in color
> management.   I don't know why but it works great for me after
> fighting with it for months.

It makes sense now.  It's just the same as using no colour management
with the "automatic" colour settings in the Epson driver.  This
gives "pretty good" results.  To get better results I've had to use
profiles.

Rob
--
http://wordweb.com

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

writes:

Quote:>It makes sense now.  It's just the same as using no colour management
>with the "automatic" colour settings in the Epson driver.  This
>gives "pretty good" results.  To get better results I've had to use
>profiles.

Glad it makes sense to you, Rob.  <g>   In my printer (HP 722C) Properties tab
for Color Management, I have Automatic checked but the explanation says that,
by using Automatic, Windows will automatically select the best profile of those
associated with the printer . . . BUT I don't have any profiles associated with
my printer (it says so in the same dialogue box).    Since my prints are very
good, I haven't done any other experimenting.   Too busy trying to scan all
those slides. <g>
             Barb