OS X and 8.5 on a Rev C iMac

OS X and 8.5 on a Rev C iMac

Post by Mr Dewson » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 15:25:59



Hi everyone,

Well, it looks like I won't be able to get a new machine for a while
yet. So I'll just have to try and get OS X running on this ancient
thingy.

I've got a 333MHz iMac, with 96 meg of RAM and a 6 gig hard drive (1.9
gig free, though I can probably get rid of some stuff). It's currently
running OS 8.5.1, because OS 9 for some reason doesn't run on it without
crashing.

Until I can get a new computer, I'm probably going to have to run OS X
on it. I've got a few questions regarding this:

1. Can I install OS X on my computer from a CD which came with one of
the latest G4 towers? (if the answer is "no", then don't worry about the
other questions)

2. Can I do this without installing OS 9?
2b. If not, can I get rid of OS 9 later from within OS X?
2c.   Can I reinstall 8.5.1 and switch between OS X and 8.5.1?

3. Will I have enough memory? (remember, I'm not running Classic
environment)

4. How can I optimise my OS X (make it faster, smaller and less RAM
intensive)?

5. Do I have to install a firmware upgrade to run OS X, and if so does
this give me the ability to boot up off USB drives? (my CD-ROM drive is
starting to give up on me)

Thanks in advance,

Mr Dewsons.

 
 
 

OS X and 8.5 on a Rev C iMac

Post by Mike Rosenbe » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 22:20:48



> I've got a 333MHz iMac, with 96 meg of RAM and a 6 gig hard drive (1.9
> gig free, though I can probably get rid of some stuff). It's currently
> running OS 8.5.1, because OS 9 for some reason doesn't run on it without
> crashing.

Stop!  You're asking for major trouble if you upgrade the software on a
computer without fixing known problems.  I mean, yeah, it's possible OS
X will work properly, but do you really want to find out the hard way if
it doesn't?

Quote:> 1. Can I install OS X on my computer from a CD which came with one of
> the latest G4 towers? (if the answer is "no", then don't worry about the
> other questions)

Legally, absolutely not.  Functionally, very likely.

Quote:> 2. Can I do this without installing OS 9?

Yes.

Quote:> 2c.   Can I reinstall 8.5.1 and switch between OS X and 8.5.1?

Reinstall?  Unless you erase your hard drive, it'll still be there.  It
won't work as Classic, though, and although you can switch from OS X to
an OS 8.5.1 bootup, you'll then have no easy way to get back to OS X
since your startup disk control panel won't give you that capability.

Quote:> 3. Will I have enough memory? (remember, I'm not running Classic
> environment)

No.  Apple says a minimum of 128MB, and most anyone who's run OS X with
the minimum will tell you that's not enough.  Best to have at least
256MB.

BTW, when you way you're not running Classic, do you realize how
terribly inconvenient that would be for you?

Quote:> 4. How can I optimise my OS X (make it faster, smaller and less RAM
> intensive)?

If you're concerned about that, don't install OS X.

Quote:> 5. Do I have to install a firmware upgrade to run OS X

Possibly, depending on what upgrades you've already installed.

Quote:> and if so does
> this give me the ability to boot up off USB drives?

No.

--
Mike Rosenberg

<http://www.macconsult.com>
<http://bogart-tribute.net>

 
 
 

OS X and 8.5 on a Rev C iMac

Post by Asteri » Fri, 04 Jul 2003 23:20:47


In article


> Hi everyone,

> Well, it looks like I won't be able to get a new machine for a while
> yet. So I'll just have to try and get OS X running on this ancient
> thingy.

Have you considered a *slightly* newer iMac, like 400 or 500 MHz ?

Quote:> I've got a 333MHz iMac, with 96 meg of RAM and a 6 gig hard drive (1.9
> gig free, though I can probably get rid of some stuff). It's currently
> running OS 8.5.1, because OS 9 for some reason doesn't run on it without
> crashing.

9.1 is a lot more stable that 9.0. But you probably have some
extension(s) that is/are incompatible with Mac OS 9.
Do you for instance have an old version of Norton AV ? After Dark ?

Quote:> Until I can get a new computer, I'm probably going to have to run OS X
> on it. I've got a few questions regarding this:

> 1. Can I install OS X on my computer from a CD which came with one of
> the latest G4 towers? (if the answer is "no", then don't worry about the
> other questions)

Provided that the CD is a Mac OS X Install CD, and not a software
restore CD, you can.
But you will need more RAM, and free up one more GB on the disk.

Quote:> 2. Can I do this without installing OS 9?

Not sure. To run Classic apps (which you will probably prefer to
rebooting) you need 9.1 or higher. You also may need to install a
firmware update, and I'm quite sure it requires 9.0 or higher to run.

But technically you don't have to have any Mac OS at all on the disk
to install Mac OS X. You can install it on a freshly formatted disk.
If the firmware is up-to-date.

Quote:> 2b. If not, can I get rid of OS 9 later from within OS X?

Yes, but IMO it's probably better to get rid of 8.5.1.

Quote:> 2c.   Can I reinstall 8.5.1 and switch between OS X and 8.5.1?

I think so, but why should you ?

Quote:> 3. Will I have enough memory? (remember, I'm not running Classic
> environment)

No.  Minimum is 128 MB. And you *will* want to run Classic
(rather than switching) so you will want at least 256 MB.
Either 2*128 or 64+256 (tossing the 32 MB card).

Now, someone will probably tell you that Mac OS X *can* run with
only 96 MB RAM, but try the word "practical".

Quote:> 4. How can I optimise my OS X (make it faster, smaller and less RAM
> intensive)?

To some extent. The installer lets you save some disk space.

Quote:> 5. Do I have to install a firmware upgrade to run OS X, and if so does
> this give me the ability to boot up off USB drives? (my CD-ROM drive is
> starting to give up on me)

You will probably have to install a firmware upgrade.
But I have never heard of any bootable USB drives.
FireWire, yes, but not USB. Someone enlighten us.
 
 
 

OS X and 8.5 on a Rev C iMac

Post by Robe » Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:07:12



> Hi everyone,

> Well, it looks like I won't be able to get a new machine for a while  
> yet. So I'll just have to try and get OS X running on this ancient  
> thingy.

> I've got a 333MHz iMac, with 96 meg of RAM and a 6 gig hard drive (1.9  
> gig free, though I can probably get rid of some stuff). It's currently  
> running OS 8.5.1, because OS 9 for some reason doesn't run on it without  
> crashing.

Perhaps you need to use a later version of OS 9.  Try adding in the
free upgrades.  Be sure to install from a complete system cd not a cd
built for a particular machine.

Quote:

> Until I can get a new computer, I'm probably going to have to run OS X  
> on it. I've got a few questions regarding this:

> 1. Can I install OS X on my computer from a CD which came with one of  
> the latest G4 towers? (if the answer is "no", then don't worry about the  
> other questions)

Doubtful.  These cds are built for a particular machine class.

Quote:

> 3. Will I have enough memory? (remember, I'm not running Classic  
> environment)

No.  128meg is the official minimum with 256meg being the realistic
minimum

Quote:

> 4. How can I optimise my OS X (make it faster, smaller and less RAM  
> intensive)?

Have not heard of anyway of doing this.  The more ram you get the
faster X will be.  Buy two 256meg simms.  Check with third party
memory sellers.  Your machine should hold 512meg of memory eventhough
Apple indicates less.

MacOS X uses all the memory you have.  It will use excess memory for
disk cache.

Quote:

> 5. Do I have to install a firmware upgrade to run OS X, and if so does  
> this give me the ability to boot up off USB drives? (my CD-ROM drive is  
> starting to give up on me)

Yes, this is a must.  You need to have the lastest firmware on your
machine before installing X.  Do not know about the USB Boot.

Try ebay for parts.

Robert

 
 
 

OS X and 8.5 on a Rev C iMac

Post by Jim Schim » Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:48:47



> Hi everyone,

> Well, it looks like I won't be able to get a new machine for a while
> yet. So I'll just have to try and get OS X running on this ancient
> thingy.

> I've got a 333MHz iMac, with 96 meg of RAM and a 6 gig hard drive (1.9
> gig free, though I can probably get rid of some stuff). It's currently
> running OS 8.5.1, because OS 9 for some reason doesn't run on it without
> crashing.

> Until I can get a new computer, I'm probably going to have to run OS X
> on it. I've got a few questions regarding this:

> 1. Can I install OS X on my computer from a CD which came with one of
> the latest G4 towers? (if the answer is "no", then don't worry about the
> other questions)

> 2. Can I do this without installing OS 9?
> 2b. If not, can I get rid of OS 9 later from within OS X?
> 2c.   Can I reinstall 8.5.1 and switch between OS X and 8.5.1?

> 3. Will I have enough memory? (remember, I'm not running Classic
> environment)

> 4. How can I optimise my OS X (make it faster, smaller and less RAM
> intensive)?

> 5. Do I have to install a firmware upgrade to run OS X, and if so does
> this give me the ability to boot up off USB drives? (my CD-ROM drive is
> starting to give up on me)

> Thanks in advance,

> Mr Dewsons.

I don't know, sometimes the CD's that came with a machine are specific
for that machine.  (It will tell you if it won't work pretty quickly).
I don't know since I have used the 10.2 disks that I purchased from
Apple which are generic.

At a minimum you need a more memory.  OS X won't install with less
than 128 Meg and I would purchase the largest amount you can afford.
Right now I run OS X on a Lime iBook (366 MHz) with 320 Meg.  While no
speed demon it's fine to use (I do program development on it).  The
iBook has a 10 G disk and I usually run with it about full so while a
bit smaller if you are careful your disk should be large enough.

You will have to do the firmware upgrade.  DON'T install OS X without
it or your machine turns into a paperweight.  Also read over the
directions carefully, it isn't hard but once started you have to go
through all the steps without stopping.  It is also unusual in that
you do the update then boot with one of the control buttons pressed.
It then finishes the update and you can go on.  Like I said read the
directions before you start.

When you install OS X you can opt to NOT install all the languages it
supports.  That will help a lot, also you don't have to install the
development software if you are not going to do that, again that will
help.

If all of the above works you will have to install 9.2 as your classic
environment as 8.x won't work.  I don't know why 9 doesn't work on
your box now and you might want to get that problem fixed first since
that problem might preclude OS X working. (There might be some kind of
memory problem or motherboard issue)

--jim

 
 
 

OS X and 8.5 on a Rev C iMac

Post by Mr Dewson » Sat, 05 Jul 2003 11:26:00





> > I've got a 333MHz iMac, with 96 meg of RAM and a 6 gig hard drive (1.9
> > gig free, though I can probably get rid of some stuff). It's currently
> > running OS 8.5.1, because OS 9 for some reason doesn't run on it without
> > crashing.

> Stop!  You're asking for major trouble if you upgrade the software on a
> computer without fixing known problems.  I mean, yeah, it's possible OS
> X will work properly, but do you really want to find out the hard way if
> it doesn't?

8.5.1 works, 9.0.4 is less stable, and 9.1 is unusable. I'm not sure
it's so much a problem with my computer as a problem with that operating
system. And everything else seems to check out fine, including my disk
and memory.

BTW, just for the record, I need to run a MIDI interface using OMS, and
that's the only thing I'd need to run on the older OS.

Quote:> > 1. Can I install OS X on my computer from a CD which came with one of
> > the latest G4 towers? (if the answer is "no", then don't worry about the
> > other questions)

> Legally, absolutely not.  Functionally, very likely.

> > 2. Can I do this without installing OS 9?

> Yes.

Cool! I'll just have to see.

Quote:> > 2c.   Can I reinstall 8.5.1 and switch between OS X and 8.5.1?

> Reinstall?  Unless you erase your hard drive, it'll still be there.  It
> won't work as Classic, though, and although you can switch from OS X to
> an OS 8.5.1 bootup, you'll then have no easy way to get back to OS X
> since your startup disk control panel won't give you that capability.

I don't suppose an older utility like System Switcher would work? OS X
would have to look like a regular System Folder in order for the
computer to recognise it - so maybe that would do. If OS X works, I'll
just have to see.

Quote:> BTW, when you way you're not running Classic, do you realize how
> terribly inconvenient that would be for you?

There's only one program I need to be running on a Classic OS - and that
won't run in the Classic environment anyway. I'd mostly be using OS X,
occasionally booting back into 8.5.

Quote:> > 4. How can I optimise my OS X (make it faster, smaller and less RAM
> > intensive)?

> If you're concerned about that, don't install OS X.

Yah, I'm concerned about performance, but unless I get OS X running my
computer is obselete.

Quote:> > 5. Do I have to install a firmware upgrade to run OS X

> Possibly, depending on what upgrades you've already installed.

iMac Firmware Upgrade 1.2. I'm sure it's the latest upgrade, but I'll
check again.

Thanks for the info, everybody.

 
 
 

OS X and 8.5 on a Rev C iMac

Post by Mr Dewson » Sat, 05 Jul 2003 11:29:24




> FireWire, yes, but not USB. Someone enlighten us.

Hmm, I just remember hearing that the 400MHz iMacs were the first to
have the ability to boot up from USB drives. I must've been mistaken. In
any case, that isn't a prime concern of mine.

And yeah, it would be a good idea for me to get more memory. And I'll
look into the firmware - I think during the short time I had 9.0.4, I
installed it.

 
 
 

OS X and 8.5 on a Rev C iMac

Post by Aster » Sat, 05 Jul 2003 20:06:00





> > FireWire, yes, but not USB. Someone enlighten us.

> Hmm, I just remember hearing that the 400MHz iMacs were the first to
> have the ability to boot up from USB drives. I must've been mistaken. In
> any case, that isn't a prime concern of mine.

Well - I said "I have never heard of any bootable USB drives",
but I was wrong. A Google search turned up Iomega's support
page http://www.iomega.com/support/documents/10447.html
describing booting from a USB Zip drive.
It should be applicalbe to other drives too.
Of course the drive itself has to support booting.

Apple should have some info too - the above pge refers to
TIL article 58430 - but I can't reach their support site now.

And you need to have a dual channel USB controller.
I'm not sure if a Rev.D iMac has that, but you can easily
check that in Apple System Profiler.

Quote:> And yeah, it would be a good idea for me to get more memory. And I'll
> look into the firmware - I think during the short time I had 9.0.4, I
> installed it.

Then you are probably fine with that
.
 
 
 

OS X and 8.5 on a Rev C iMac

Post by Mike Rosenbe » Sat, 05 Jul 2003 23:19:21



> 8.5.1 works, 9.0.4 is less stable, and 9.1 is unusable. I'm not sure
> it's so much a problem with my computer as a problem with that operating
> system. And everything else seems to check out fine, including my disk
> and memory.

Well, then, it's probably an extension conflict.

Quote:> BTW, just for the record, I need to run a MIDI interface using OMS, and
> that's the only thing I'd need to run on the older OS.

You're sure of that?  

Quote:> I don't suppose an older utility like System Switcher would work? OS X
> would have to look like a regular System Folder in order for the
> computer to recognise it - so maybe that would do.

No, it absolutely would not work.  OS X in no way resembles OS 9 and
earlier.

Quote:> > If you're concerned about that, don't install OS X.

> Yah, I'm concerned about performance, but unless I get OS X running my
> computer is obselete.

Well, Sonnet sells processor upgrades for Rev A-D iMacs, which'll get
you up to 600 MHz as well as adding a FireWire port.  Short of that,
maxing out the RAM is always a recommended upgrade.

--
Mike Rosenberg

<http://www.macconsult.com>
<http://bogart-tribute.net>

 
 
 

OS X and 8.5 on a Rev C iMac

Post by Mr Dewson » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:37:23





> > 8.5.1 works, 9.0.4 is less stable, and 9.1 is unusable. I'm not sure
> > it's so much a problem with my computer as a problem with that operating
> > system. And everything else seems to check out fine, including my disk
> > and memory.

> Well, then, it's probably an extension conflict.

Actually, shockingly, no, unless OS 9's default extensions conflict with
eachother. (which is something I can believe, lol!)

Quote:> > BTW, just for the record, I need to run a MIDI interface using OMS, and
> > that's the only thing I'd need to run on the older OS.

> You're sure of that?

Well, come to think of it, I also use Protools Free.

Quote:> Well, Sonnet sells processor upgrades for Rev A-D iMacs, which'll get
> you up to 600 MHz as well as adding a FireWire port.  Short of that,
> maxing out the RAM is always a recommended upgrade.

I'm gonna kill that guy who used to do the Mac troubleshooting section
on Download.com. He told me that you *didn't* get a Firewire port on
those upgrades! (GRRR!)

Anyway, I didn't know you could get up to 600MHz. I'll have a look into
those. Thanks for the info.

 
 
 

OS X and 8.5 on a Rev C iMac

Post by Mike Rosenbe » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:04:40



> > Well, then, it's probably an extension conflict.

> Actually, shockingly, no, unless OS 9's default extensions conflict with
> eachother. (which is something I can believe, lol!)

Okay, not with each other, but with a program you're using, or perhaps
you have a corrupted preference file.

--
Mike Rosenberg

<http://www.macconsult.com>
<http://bogart-tribute.net>

 
 
 

OS X and 8.5 on a Rev C iMac

Post by Mr Dewson » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:37:23





> > 8.5.1 works, 9.0.4 is less stable, and 9.1 is unusable. I'm not sure
> > it's so much a problem with my computer as a problem with that operating
> > system. And everything else seems to check out fine, including my disk
> > and memory.

> Well, then, it's probably an extension conflict.

Actually, shockingly, no, unless OS 9's default extensions conflict with
eachother. (which is something I can believe, lol!)

Quote:> > BTW, just for the record, I need to run a MIDI interface using OMS, and
> > that's the only thing I'd need to run on the older OS.

> You're sure of that?

Well, come to think of it, I also use Protools Free.

Quote:> Well, Sonnet sells processor upgrades for Rev A-D iMacs, which'll get
> you up to 600 MHz as well as adding a FireWire port.  Short of that,
> maxing out the RAM is always a recommended upgrade.

I'm gonna kill that guy who used to do the Mac troubleshooting section
on Download.com. He told me that you *didn't* get a Firewire port on
those upgrades! (GRRR!)

Anyway, I didn't know you could get up to 600MHz. I'll have a look into
those. Thanks for the info.

 
 
 

OS X and 8.5 on a Rev C iMac

Post by Mike Rosenbe » Sun, 06 Jul 2003 23:04:40



> > Well, then, it's probably an extension conflict.

> Actually, shockingly, no, unless OS 9's default extensions conflict with
> eachother. (which is something I can believe, lol!)

Okay, not with each other, but with a program you're using, or perhaps
you have a corrupted preference file.

--
Mike Rosenberg

<http://www.macconsult.com>
<http://bogart-tribute.net>

 
 
 

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