How To Get a Single Outline of Three Draw Objects?

How To Get a Single Outline of Three Draw Objects?

Post by James Sargen » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 18:43:32



A how-to question ...

I've been asked to draw a simple A3-sized poster with a music stave and
a quaver on it (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaver for example of
what they look like).

Having no artistic talent, I've simply exported a quaver from Sibelius
to a draw file.

However, the quaver is made up of 3 separate, overlapping, objects - the
oval note head (an enclosed object made up of 4 x bezier curves), the
stem (a thick vertical line) and the tail of the quaver (another
enclosed object made up of straight lines and bezier curves).

What I'd like to be able to do is to make an outline in the shape of the
quaver (so that it can be coloured in by hand later).

However, I really don't know how to do this! I have Draw, (the free)
DrawWorks XE, Compo, Photodesk, DPlngScan.

I tried creating a sprite from the drawfile, then using Trace (which
comes with DPlngScan) to convert it back into a single vector shape.
However, Trace was unable to generate anything even approximately right
(I tried various error settings).

I also tried the merge paths objects in DrawWorks but that doesn't
remove the overlapping areas so, removing the fill, results in some odd
effects.

I suspect something like ArtWorks' intersect module is what I need,
however, I don't own that piece of software.

So, any suggestions for how I can make a single vector object (which I
can then fill or un-fill) from the three I currently have?

Thanks in advance,
James

 
 
 

How To Get a Single Outline of Three Draw Objects?

Post by New » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:03:19




Quote:> I've been asked to draw a simple A3-sized poster with a music stave and
> a quaver on it (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaver for example of
> what they look like).

[snip]

Quote:> So, any suggestions for how I can make a single vector object (which I
> can then fill or un-fill) from the three I currently have?

Since it's a simple drawing, why not simply trace over it using Draw?
Shouldn't take more than a few minutes.

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How To Get a Single Outline of Three Draw Objects?

Post by New » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:13:53




Quote:> What I'd like to be able to do is to make an outline in the shape of the
> quaver (so that it can be coloured in by hand later).

In Draw, group your three objects and make line and fill colour black.

Make a copy and reduce the size of this by setting the magnification to,
say, 95% (Transform).

Set the fill and line colours of this copy object to white and place it
over the black object to just leave the black outline.

Group the two objects and use the horizontal and vertical justification to
place the objects on a common centre.

Seasons greetings,

John

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How To Get a Single Outline of Three Draw Objects?

Post by James Sargen » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:36:47





>> What I'd like to be able to do is to make an outline in the shape of the
>> quaver (so that it can be coloured in by hand later).

> In Draw, group your three objects and make line and fill colour black.

> Make a copy and reduce the size of this by setting the magnification to,
> say, 95% (Transform).

> Group the two objects and use the horizontal and vertical justification to
> place the objects on a common centre.

Unfortunately, this plan doesn't work (and I should have mentioned in my
original post that I did try it).

I'm not sure how best to describe the resulting image, but it's not
right! Parts of the white (upper) image now overlap the edges of the
black (lower) image rather than being contained within it. I can see
this technique would work with a regular object (rectangle, circle, etc)
but it doesn't for an irregular object like a quaver.

I did also try Dave Plowman's suggestion of tracing the outline but, due
to incompetence (I suppose) I kept getting handles from the two objects
muddled and stretching my original image! Must learn better control of
!Draw, I suppose.

If there's anything else that can be suggested to help, I'd be most
please. Otherwise I'm off to trying tracing again.

Seasons greetings all round,
James

 
 
 

How To Get a Single Outline of Three Draw Objects?

Post by New » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:21:31




Quote:> In Draw, group your three objects and make line and fill colour black.
> Make a copy and reduce the size of this by setting the magnification to,
> say, 95% (Transform).

Actually, that doesn't quite work, but by grouping the pairs of elements
and extending the length of the white stem vertically it could be made to.

John

--
John Williams, Wirral, Merseyside, UK - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject
for reliable contact! Who is John Williams? http://www.picindex.info/author/

 
 
 

How To Get a Single Outline of Three Draw Objects?

Post by James Sargen » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:35:12





>> In Draw, group your three objects and make line and fill colour black.

>> Make a copy and reduce the size of this by setting the magnification to,
>> say, 95% (Transform).

> Actually, that doesn't quite work, but by grouping the pairs of elements
> and extending the length of the white stem vertically it could be made to.

Thanks John & Dave.

I tried the trace method again and now have a satisfactory result
(unlike first time when I made a complete mess of it).

I now have a "problem" with getting the output successfully to PDF but I
suspect I should start another thread for that ...

Rgds,
James

 
 
 

How To Get a Single Outline of Three Draw Objects?

Post by Guy Inchbal » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:51:40






>>> What I'd like to be able to do is to make an outline in the shape of
>>>the  quaver (so that it can be coloured in by hand later).
>>  In Draw, group your three objects and make line and fill colour
>>black.
>>  Make a copy and reduce the size of this by setting the magnification
>>to,
>> say, 95% (Transform).
>>  Group the two objects and use the horizontal and vertical
>>justification to
>> place the objects on a common centre.

>Unfortunately, this plan doesn't work (and I should have mentioned in
>my original post that I did try it).

>I'm not sure how best to describe the resulting image, but it's not
>right! Parts of the white (upper) image now overlap the edges of the
>black (lower) image rather than being contained within it. I can see
>this technique would work with a regular object (rectangle, circle,
>etc) but it doesn't for an irregular object like a quaver.

A better way is to set a thick-ish line width for the original black
objects. Tweak the objects so they look good like this.
Make a white copy *the same size* as the original.
Set the white line width to thin.
Now, when you place it over the black one, you should get an even
outline all round.
HTH
--
Cheers,
Guy


To reply, remove useless bits.

 
 
 

How To Get a Single Outline of Three Draw Objects?

Post by James Sargen » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:52:47





>> I've been asked to draw a simple A3-sized poster with a music stave
>> and a quaver on it (see http://www.veryComputer.com/
>> example of what they look like).

> [snip]

>> So, any suggestions for how I can make a single vector object
>> (which I can then fill or un-fill) from the three I currently have?

> Since it's a simple drawing, why not simply trace over it using Draw?
> Shouldn't take more than a few minutes.

I did, indeed, manage to make a fairly successful tracing second time
around (and solved my PDF problem).

The followup question is, is it possible to see the original object's
control & end-points whilst editing the new object? I kept having to
swap bew* the two and line up by best guess of where they had been on
the source object?

Thanks,
James

 
 
 

How To Get a Single Outline of Three Draw Objects?

Post by Vince » Tue, 27 Dec 2005 23:07:00




> > > What I'd like to be able to do is to make an outline in the
> > > shape of the quaver (so that it can be coloured in by hand
> > > later).

[...]

Quote:> > Group the two objects and use the horizontal and vertical
> > justification to place the objects on a common centre.
> Unfortunately, this plan doesn't work (and I should have
> mentioned in my original post that I did try it).

Group everything in your starting Drawfile together, and make all
the outlines black and fill colours white.

The result will be an outline, but with various unwanted lines as
well. Scale the file up to give you fine control, and then draw
white outline/white fill colour objects to obscure those lines.

Finally, group everything together.

That's how I've done this sort of thing in the past.

VinceH

 
 
 

How To Get a Single Outline of Three Draw Objects?

Post by Andrew Donaldso » Wed, 28 Dec 2005 06:22:24



> The followup question is, is it possible to see the original object's
> control & end-points whilst editing the new object? I kept having to
> swap bew* the two and line up by best guess of where they had been on
> the source object?

Not simultaneously in Draw, I'm sure.

You could:

- view the original object in edit mode in Draw
- grab the Draw window as a sprite using Paint
- import the sprite into Draw
- trace the sprite

Any use?

Andrew

 
 
 

How To Get a Single Outline of Three Draw Objects?

Post by Peter van der Vo » Wed, 28 Dec 2005 07:49:02


Hi James,


> A how-to question ...

> I've been asked to draw a simple A3-sized poster with a music stave and
> a quaver on it (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaver for example of
> what they look like).

If you only have to output it to a printer, you can group them and
fill it with the same colour as the outline color. This way you don't
see the outline lines any more. This doesn't look nice on screen but
if you print it on a printer with high enough dpi's you will not see it.

Good luck,

Peter

 
 
 

How To Get a Single Outline of Three Draw Objects?

Post by James Sargen » Wed, 28 Dec 2005 13:51:10




>> The followup question is, is it possible to see the original object's
>> control & end-points whilst editing the new object? I kept having to
>> swap bew* the two and line up by best guess of where they had been
>> on the source object?

> You could:

> - view the original object in edit mode in Draw
> - grab the Draw window as a sprite using Paint
> - import the sprite into Draw
> - trace the sprite

Funny, I thought of that, too, after the event (of course!)

However, in this case, the original quaver was made up of three
distinct, overlapping objects so it wouldn't be easy to get a snapshot
with all three in editing mode.

Good suggestion, though.

Rgds,
James

 
 
 

How To Get a Single Outline of Three Draw Objects?

Post by Andrew Donaldso » Thu, 29 Dec 2005 08:00:35



>>>The followup question is, is it possible to see the original object's
>>>control & end-points whilst editing the new object? I kept having to
>>>swap bew* the two and line up by best guess of where they had been
>>>on the source object?

>>You could:

>>- view the original object in edit mode in Draw
>>- grab the Draw window as a sprite using Paint
>>- import the sprite into Draw
>>- trace the sprite

> Funny, I thought of that, too, after the event (of course!)

> However, in this case, the original quaver was made up of three
> distinct, overlapping objects so it wouldn't be easy to get a snapshot
> with all three in editing mode.

How about doing the above thrice, once for each object in edit mode,
then masking the background and superimposing the sprites in Draw. You
could include a fourth object in each screenshot to ensure alignment.

This of course wouldn't help for any control points which are not in the
same position in the combined draw object.

Probably a redundant suggestion by now though...

Quote:> Good suggestion, though.

Thanks :-)

Andrew

 
 
 

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