Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Post by James Greerso » Tue, 14 Nov 2000 04:00:00



On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 01:12:57 GMT, InternetSecurity101

Quote:>To the trolls that replied being negative about my post
>concerning Zone Alarm .vs BlackICE Defender:

>  You said you wanted proof right? Ok, I have some serious
>stuff for you trolls:

>Go to www.networkice.com and go through their whole site
>looking for excerpts concerning Zone Alarm. Now, trod
>back to Zone Labs and point them to these pages that you
>found....if you find them, for I think you are not that smart
>in the first place!

The issue of burden of proof was already discussed at length a few
months ago when you went into your spasm of unsubstantiated accusations
against ZoneAlarm, and also several months before that when you made
wild accusations about so-called obvious security holes in Conseal PC
Firewall.

Since it is impossible to prove the negative existence of something, it
is the responsibility of the accuser to show burden of proof for the
evidence supporting his claims. If you are seriously going to convince
anyone of your point of view, it is your responsibility to explicitly
show the data supporting your claims. Just giving a vague pointer of "go
to www.networkice.com" doesn't prove anything, and is downright lazy.
What SPECIFIC page(s) on that website explicitly show reproduceable
evidence for your accusations?

You might as well claim to have proof of Bigfoot's existence and vaguely
point to some website, saying that it's up to everyone else to search
through that website for your proof. Of course, if your proof doesn't
exist, they'll never find it and you'll still continue to say that the
evidence is on that website somewhere.

Well that's not the way burden of proof is supposed to work, so where
specifically is your proof?

If you can indeed point the way to explicit evidence of ZoneAlarm
intentionally harming its users, I'm sure everyone interested in getting
at the truth would be very grateful, myself included. However, if no
such evidence exists you should stop making a greater fool of yourself
than you already have.

Before you once again call me a ZoneLabs employee, let me restate once
again that I have no use for ZoneAlarm since I use Conseal PC Firewall
for my Win 9x machine, and the original AtGuard (not that piece of
bloatware *Norton Internet Security) for my Win 2000 machine. Both
of those work just fine, so I see no reason to bother switching.

[snip]

Quote:>I BET NOT ONE OF THESE TROLLS WILL DO THIS, AND I KNOW THEY WILL GIVE
>SOME LAME-ASS EXCUSE WHY THEY DIDN'T, OR WILL COME BACK WITH SOME
>STUPID REPLY THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC ABOVE. OH, LET ME
>NOT FORGET THE DUMB DUMB "REDIRECTED QUESTIONS" THEY WILL SUBMIT
>EITHER CONCERNING THIS POST. THEY DO THIS ALL THE TIME.

>Zone Labs, we await your LEGAL STANCE on this issue.

            ^^

Do you always refer to yourself in the plural? Oh wait, you're probably
thinking of the royal "we," as in the English royal family saying "We
are not amused." You must be getting visions of grandeur again.

Quote:>NetworkICE, go get'em! (HooRAH!)

>fini....

 ^^^^

LOL! Yeah right. (see below)

On Wed, 01 Nov 2000 01:53:20 GMT, InternetSecurity101

Quote:

>Hello everyone,

>  With a sad heart, I must leave this advertising news group.

[snip]

Quote:>  With this, I lay to rest the knowledge that I have given, for the
>good, and not the bad. May the good prevail over the evil, and that
>one day, you shall see the light through your eye coins.

>"...seek and ye shall find. Find, and thou should ask the questions of
>truth and justice for all mankind." - Internet Security 101

>Goodbye my friends.....

What was that again? The third or fourth "goodbye" message you had
posted so far? And you even had to add some ridiculously melodramatic
self-quote. Your "goodbye" messages are turning into some pretty funny
entertainment seeing how you keep coming back. LOL!
 
 
 

Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Post by OverSou » Tue, 14 Nov 2000 04:00:00




Quote:>  If you are seriously going to convince
> anyone of your point of view,

The only thing he's convinced anyone of is his INSANITY!

Quote:> Do you always refer to yourself in the plural? Oh wait, you're probably
> thinking of the royal "we,"

No....he's referring to the numerous voices in his head...too many to get
an accurate count. Too bad none of them make any sense.

OverSoul
--
Humanity is a school for the Soul...

 
 
 

Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Post by InternetSecurity10 » Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:12:57


To the trolls that replied being negative about my post
concerning Zone Alarm .vs BlackICE Defender:

  You said you wanted proof right? Ok, I have some serious
stuff for you trolls:

Go to www.networkice.com and go through their whole site
looking for excerpts concerning Zone Alarm. Now, trod
back to Zone Labs and point them to these pages that you
found....if you find them, for I think you are not that smart
in the first place!

Ok, now that you have found these pages that www.networkice.com
posts on their web site, I CHALLENGE YOU TO FORWARD THESE PAGES
TO ZONE LABS, AND ASK THEM TO LEGALLY LOOK INTO THIS MATTER
REGARDING THEIR PRODUCT, .VS THE "TRUTH" THAT NETWORKICE HAS
POSTED ABOUT THEIR FREE! FIREWALL, THEY CALL ZONE ALARM.

  Do you really think that Zone Labs will contest NetworkICE via
the pages they posted about Zone Alarm? I will save you the trouble
trolls: NO THEY WON'T, FOR THE TRUTH HURTS, AND LEGALLY THEY CAN'T DO
SQUAT ABOUT IT, BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT IS THE TRUTH THAT NETWORKICE
POSTED ABOUT ZONE ALARM.

  If you want to blame anyone, blame the trolls in this group. Like
I said earlier, they either have their mitts in the money pool
like ZDTV/Tech TV does, or they are just plain stupid. I suspect the
latter part myself! Why? Because these same trolls, are the same people
spreading infected copies of BlackICE Defender via the Internet on the
WAREZ sites and Newsgroups for FREE download. The same goes for the
purchased copies that you buy from Zone Labs for Zone Alarm,
they are WAREZED also. (Don't be stupid and download these!)

  If you do download the illegal copies of these programs, or any other
for that matter on the WAREZ sites, don't blame everyone else for your
computer problems in the future. Just look yourself straight in the
face, and say your a dumb dumb for doing it. Now, go format your
hard drive, and start over on the right foot if you want to have your
computer working right again. (You do know that most, if not all of
these free WAREZ programs have TROJANS in them, didn't you? ...hehehe,
so much for FREE-WAREZ Programs huh?)

  Ok trolls, I gave you some info to go on, so hurry down to your
favorite Zone Lab Attorney and ask them what's up with NetworkICE
posting bogus (in the trolls opinion) info about their Zone Alarm
(FREE!) product.

I BET NOT ONE OF THESE TROLLS WILL DO THIS, AND I KNOW THEY WILL GIVE
SOME LAME-ASS EXCUSE WHY THEY DIDN'T, OR WILL COME BACK WITH SOME
STUPID REPLY THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC ABOVE. OH, LET ME
NOT FORGET THE DUMB DUMB "REDIRECTED QUESTIONS" THEY WILL SUBMIT
EITHER CONCERNING THIS POST. THEY DO THIS ALL THE TIME.

Zone Labs, we await your LEGAL STANCE on this issue.

NetworkICE, go get'em! (HooRAH!)

(I bet Zone Labs will tuck their tail quietly up their rear-end on this
issue!)

fini....

Internet Security 101 - (...you want proof? Here's ya proof....<THWACK!

Quote:><THWACK!><THWACK!>....THRASH A HACKER TODAY!     ;)

--
Firewall Information:
http://www.robertgraham.com/pubs/firewall-seen.html
Better Business Bureau: http://www.bbb.org
Internet Fraud: https://www.ifccfbi.gov/

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Post by Bre » Wed, 15 Nov 2000 10:59:28



> Ok, now that you have found these pages that www.networkice.com
> posts on their web site, I CHALLENGE YOU TO FORWARD THESE PAGES
> TO ZONE LABS, AND ASK THEM TO LEGALLY LOOK INTO THIS MATTER
> REGARDING THEIR PRODUCT, .VS THE "TRUTH" THAT NETWORKICE HAS
> POSTED ABOUT THEIR FREE! FIREWALL, THEY CALL ZONE ALARM.

Now what's all the shouting about?  People tend to shout when they know
they are losing an argument.
IPveeeeee take your medicine like a good little boy..

Bre

 
 
 

Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Post by Svenn Derric » Wed, 15 Nov 2000 04:00:00


I'm kind of new around here, and I'm still getting used to the personalities
in this NG, but I have to say, you don't have shout alot...

That said, I like to find things out for myself, personality trait, and I
took a look at the NetworkICE site, interesting articles on how their
firewall compared to ZoneAlarm...

http://www.networkice.com/advice/support/kb/q000132/default.htm  which seems
to use AOL messenger as its main focus on end user fallibility - who
seriously uses such vulnerable software - sorry another time for that one -
but in all cases it is down to end user configuration, if a monkey
configures the NetworkICE firewall is it secure...?  The same can be said
for any firewall...

http://www.networkice.com/html/7%2D31%2D2000.html which seemed to be just a
n other "oh, I tried this out this week and I think it's brilliant
because..."  Then there is the same adverts on any products site...

The final search result for zonealarm just brings up the knowledge base...

So, where is all these damming articles, all this evidence then?  Please do
point me to the correct place - I have already looked and can't seem to find
all the information you seem to have at your disposal, so share...

Oh, and please don't shout in your response...;)

Oh, I don't work for ZoneLabs, NetworkICE etc, etc,

--
Svenn Derrick
RSA CSE, MCSE, Compaq ASE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~svenn/

Remove "NOSPAM" to reply via email
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Always listen to experts.
They'll tell you what can't be done, and why.
Then do it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THE FAQ:
http://mcse.marvl.com/altmcsefaq/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Quote:> To the trolls that replied being negative about my post
> concerning Zone Alarm .vs BlackICE Defender:

>   You said you wanted proof right? Ok, I have some serious
> stuff for you trolls:

> Go to www.networkice.com and go through their whole site
> looking for excerpts concerning Zone Alarm. Now, trod
> back to Zone Labs and point them to these pages that you
> found....if you find them, for I think you are not that smart
> in the first place!

> Ok, now that you have found these pages that www.networkice.com
> posts on their web site, I CHALLENGE YOU TO FORWARD THESE PAGES
> TO ZONE LABS, AND ASK THEM TO LEGALLY LOOK INTO THIS MATTER
> REGARDING THEIR PRODUCT, .VS THE "TRUTH" THAT NETWORKICE HAS
> POSTED ABOUT THEIR FREE! FIREWALL, THEY CALL ZONE ALARM.

>   Do you really think that Zone Labs will contest NetworkICE via
> the pages they posted about Zone Alarm? I will save you the trouble
> trolls: NO THEY WON'T, FOR THE TRUTH HURTS, AND LEGALLY THEY CAN'T DO
> SQUAT ABOUT IT, BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT IS THE TRUTH THAT NETWORKICE
> POSTED ABOUT ZONE ALARM.

>   If you want to blame anyone, blame the trolls in this group. Like
> I said earlier, they either have their mitts in the money pool
> like ZDTV/Tech TV does, or they are just plain stupid. I suspect the
> latter part myself! Why? Because these same trolls, are the same people
> spreading infected copies of BlackICE Defender via the Internet on the
> WAREZ sites and Newsgroups for FREE download. The same goes for the
> purchased copies that you buy from Zone Labs for Zone Alarm,
> they are WAREZED also. (Don't be stupid and download these!)

>   If you do download the illegal copies of these programs, or any other
> for that matter on the WAREZ sites, don't blame everyone else for your
> computer problems in the future. Just look yourself straight in the
> face, and say your a dumb dumb for doing it. Now, go format your
> hard drive, and start over on the right foot if you want to have your
> computer working right again. (You do know that most, if not all of
> these free WAREZ programs have TROJANS in them, didn't you? ...hehehe,
> so much for FREE-WAREZ Programs huh?)

>   Ok trolls, I gave you some info to go on, so hurry down to your
> favorite Zone Lab Attorney and ask them what's up with NetworkICE
> posting bogus (in the trolls opinion) info about their Zone Alarm
> (FREE!) product.

> I BET NOT ONE OF THESE TROLLS WILL DO THIS, AND I KNOW THEY WILL GIVE
> SOME LAME-ASS EXCUSE WHY THEY DIDN'T, OR WILL COME BACK WITH SOME
> STUPID REPLY THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC ABOVE. OH, LET ME
> NOT FORGET THE DUMB DUMB "REDIRECTED QUESTIONS" THEY WILL SUBMIT
> EITHER CONCERNING THIS POST. THEY DO THIS ALL THE TIME.

> Zone Labs, we await your LEGAL STANCE on this issue.

> NetworkICE, go get'em! (HooRAH!)

> (I bet Zone Labs will tuck their tail quietly up their rear-end on this
> issue!)

> fini....

> Internet Security 101 - (...you want proof? Here's ya proof....<THWACK!
> ><THWACK!><THWACK!>....THRASH A HACKER TODAY!     ;)

> --
> Firewall Information:
> http://www.robertgraham.com/pubs/firewall-seen.html
> Better Business Bureau: http://www.bbb.org
> Internet Fraud: https://www.ifccfbi.gov/

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

 
 
 

Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Post by CUlate » Wed, 15 Nov 2000 04:00:00


There is a logging feature for zone alarm and it's called zone logger, just
thought you would like to know.
 
 
 

Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Post by Svenn Derric » Wed, 15 Nov 2000 04:00:00


Ok, I like to be thorough, so I did a quick search on BlackICE defender...

http://www.securiteam.com/securityreviews/BlackICE_Defender_-_A_perso...
ewall_for_the_novice_user.html (watch the wrap)

**BlackICE Defender, by Network ICE, is an excellent personal firewall for
beginners and novice Internet users who wish to protect themselves against
external attacks.**

**This product should not be used to defend against sophisticated hacking
attempts, but it can be very effective in stopping and reporting (it has a
nice 'evidence log' feature) most scanning attempts made by 'script
kiddies'. **

Any comments??

--
Svenn Derrick
RSA CSE, MCSE, Compaq ASE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~svenn/

Remove "NOSPAM" to reply via email
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Always listen to experts.
They'll tell you what can't be done, and why.
Then do it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote:> To the trolls that replied being negative about my post
> concerning Zone Alarm .vs BlackICE Defender:

<SNIP>
 
 
 

Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Post by James Greerso » Wed, 15 Nov 2000 04:00:00


On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:15:55 -0000, "Svenn Derrick"


>Ok, I like to be thorough, so I did a quick search on BlackICE defender...

>http://www.securiteam.com/securityreviews/BlackICE_Defender_-_A_perso...
>ewall_for_the_novice_user.html (watch the wrap)

>**BlackICE Defender, by Network ICE, is an excellent personal firewall for
>beginners and novice Internet users who wish to protect themselves against
>external attacks.**

>**This product should not be used to defend against sophisticated hacking
>attempts, but it can be very effective in stopping and reporting (it has a
>nice 'evidence log' feature) most scanning attempts made by 'script
>kiddies'. **

>Any comments??

Does anyone know if Network ICE has yet bothered to implement outbound
filtering in their product? If not, I don't think one could really call
BID a true firewall as the above review seems to imply.

This is not to say that BID is not a good product for many people
(particularly those who are novices), but "intrusion detection software"
would be a more accurate label for BID.

 
 
 

Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Post by Svenn Derric » Wed, 15 Nov 2000 04:00:00


Hi James
I have never run NetworkICE, but from what I have seen from differing
sources - the search engines at PacketStorm, infosyssec etc, I would tend to
agree with you, it is more of an IDS.

As with all products it depends on its users perceptions of threat versus
usability, some are more comfortable with GNAT boxes, others prefer to run
IPChains on Linux machines, others like the simplicity of Zone Alarm and the
myriad others.  Oh, and the old nugget - cost.

No matter what your running there is always something we wish was "fixed" or
better...;)

--
Svenn Derrick
RSA CSE, MCSE, Compaq ASE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~svenn/

Remove "NOSPAM" to reply via email
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Always listen to experts.
They'll tell you what can't be done, and why.
Then do it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:15:55 -0000, "Svenn Derrick"

> >Ok, I like to be thorough, so I did a quick search on BlackICE
defender...

>http://www.securiteam.com/securityreviews/BlackICE_Defender_-_A_perso...
r
> >ewall_for_the_novice_user.html (watch the wrap)

> >**BlackICE Defender, by Network ICE, is an excellent personal firewall
for
> >beginners and novice Internet users who wish to protect themselves
against
> >external attacks.**

> >**This product should not be used to defend against sophisticated hacking
> >attempts, but it can be very effective in stopping and reporting (it has
a
> >nice 'evidence log' feature) most scanning attempts made by 'script
> >kiddies'. **

> >Any comments??

> Does anyone know if Network ICE has yet bothered to implement outbound
> filtering in their product? If not, I don't think one could really call
> BID a true firewall as the above review seems to imply.

> This is not to say that BID is not a good product for many people
> (particularly those who are novices), but "intrusion detection software"
> would be a more accurate label for BID.

 
 
 

Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Post by InternetSecurity10 » Thu, 16 Nov 2000 04:00:00


Truth hurts doesn't it?

Zone Labs i.e., maker of Zone Alarm will "NOT" contest
Networkice Corporation regarding their statements about
Zone Alarm.....period. Because they state "FACT" about it.

Why don't you quit your rambling about proof, when it is already
there on Networkice Corporation web site? You don't see Zone Labs
contesting it "LEGALLY", now do you troll?

No you don't.

I guess you will come back with some stupid statement like
Zone Labs can't afford it?

By the way, you are in "DENIAL" again.

Internet Security 101



> On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 01:12:57 GMT, InternetSecurity101


> >To the trolls that replied being negative about my post
> >concerning Zone Alarm .vs BlackICE Defender:

> >  You said you wanted proof right? Ok, I have some serious
> >stuff for you trolls:

> >Go to www.networkice.com and go through their whole site
> >looking for excerpts concerning Zone Alarm. Now, trod
> >back to Zone Labs and point them to these pages that you
> >found....if you find them, for I think you are not that smart
> >in the first place!

> The issue of burden of proof was already discussed at length a few
> months ago when you went into your spasm of unsubstantiated
accusations
> against ZoneAlarm, and also several months before that when you made
> wild accusations about so-called obvious security holes in Conseal PC
> Firewall.

> Since it is impossible to prove the negative existence of something,
it
> is the responsibility of the accuser to show burden of proof for the
> evidence supporting his claims. If you are seriously going to convince
> anyone of your point of view, it is your responsibility to explicitly
> show the data supporting your claims. Just giving a vague pointer
of "go
> to www.networkice.com" doesn't prove anything, and is downright lazy.
> What SPECIFIC page(s) on that website explicitly show reproduceable
> evidence for your accusations?

> You might as well claim to have proof of Bigfoot's existence and
vaguely
> point to some website, saying that it's up to everyone else to search
> through that website for your proof. Of course, if your proof doesn't
> exist, they'll never find it and you'll still continue to say that the
> evidence is on that website somewhere.

> Well that's not the way burden of proof is supposed to work, so where
> specifically is your proof?

> If you can indeed point the way to explicit evidence of ZoneAlarm
> intentionally harming its users, I'm sure everyone interested in
getting
> at the truth would be very grateful, myself included. However, if no
> such evidence exists you should stop making a greater fool of yourself
> than you already have.

> Before you once again call me a ZoneLabs employee, let me restate once
> again that I have no use for ZoneAlarm since I use Conseal PC Firewall
> for my Win 9x machine, and the original AtGuard (not that piece of
> bloatware *Norton Internet Security) for my Win 2000 machine. Both
> of those work just fine, so I see no reason to bother switching.

> [snip]

> >I BET NOT ONE OF THESE TROLLS WILL DO THIS, AND I KNOW THEY WILL GIVE
> >SOME LAME-ASS EXCUSE WHY THEY DIDN'T, OR WILL COME BACK WITH SOME
> >STUPID REPLY THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC ABOVE. OH, LET ME
> >NOT FORGET THE DUMB DUMB "REDIRECTED QUESTIONS" THEY WILL SUBMIT
> >EITHER CONCERNING THIS POST. THEY DO THIS ALL THE TIME.

> >Zone Labs, we await your LEGAL STANCE on this issue.
>             ^^

> Do you always refer to yourself in the plural? Oh wait, you're
probably
> thinking of the royal "we," as in the English royal family saying "We
> are not amused." You must be getting visions of grandeur again.

> >NetworkICE, go get'em! (HooRAH!)

> >fini....
>  ^^^^

> LOL! Yeah right. (see below)

> On Wed, 01 Nov 2000 01:53:20 GMT, InternetSecurity101


> >Hello everyone,

> >  With a sad heart, I must leave this advertising news group.

> [snip]

> >  With this, I lay to rest the knowledge that I have given, for the
> >good, and not the bad. May the good prevail over the evil, and that
> >one day, you shall see the light through your eye coins.

> >"...seek and ye shall find. Find, and thou should ask the questions
of
> >truth and justice for all mankind." - Internet Security 101

> >Goodbye my friends.....

> What was that again? The third or fourth "goodbye" message you had
> posted so far? And you even had to add some ridiculously melodramatic
> self-quote. Your "goodbye" messages are turning into some pretty funny
> entertainment seeing how you keep coming back. LOL!

--
Firewall Information:
http://www.veryComputer.com/
Better Business Bureau: http://www.veryComputer.com/
Internet Fraud: https://www.ifccfbi.gov/

Sent via Deja.com http://www.veryComputer.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Post by InternetSecurity10 » Thu, 16 Nov 2000 04:00:00


Sorry you can't find it.

lol

And no, you are not new here. Deja already confirmed that.

lol

Nice try troll.

Internet Security 101



> I'm kind of new around here, and I'm still getting used to the
personalities
> in this NG, but I have to say, you don't have shout alot...

> That said, I like to find things out for myself, personality trait,
and I
> took a look at the NetworkICE site, interesting articles on how their
> firewall compared to ZoneAlarm...

> http://www.networkice.com/advice/support/kb/q000132/default.htm
which seems
> to use AOL messenger as its main focus on end user fallibility - who
> seriously uses such vulnerable software - sorry another time for that
one -
> but in all cases it is down to end user configuration, if a monkey
> configures the NetworkICE firewall is it secure...?  The same can be
said
> for any firewall...

> http://www.networkice.com/html/7%2D31%2D2000.html which seemed to be
just a
> n other "oh, I tried this out this week and I think it's brilliant
> because..."  Then there is the same adverts on any products site...

> The final search result for zonealarm just brings up the knowledge
base...

> So, where is all these damming articles, all this evidence then?
Please do
> point me to the correct place - I have already looked and can't seem
to find
> all the information you seem to have at your disposal, so share...

> Oh, and please don't shout in your response...;)

> Oh, I don't work for ZoneLabs, NetworkICE etc, etc,

> --
> Svenn Derrick
> RSA CSE, MCSE, Compaq ASE
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~svenn/

> Remove "NOSPAM" to reply via email
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Always listen to experts.
> They'll tell you what can't be done, and why.
> Then do it.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> THE FAQ:
> http://mcse.marvl.com/altmcsefaq/
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



> > To the trolls that replied being negative about my post
> > concerning Zone Alarm .vs BlackICE Defender:

> >   You said you wanted proof right? Ok, I have some serious
> > stuff for you trolls:

> > Go to www.networkice.com and go through their whole site
> > looking for excerpts concerning Zone Alarm. Now, trod
> > back to Zone Labs and point them to these pages that you
> > found....if you find them, for I think you are not that smart
> > in the first place!

> > Ok, now that you have found these pages that www.networkice.com
> > posts on their web site, I CHALLENGE YOU TO FORWARD THESE PAGES
> > TO ZONE LABS, AND ASK THEM TO LEGALLY LOOK INTO THIS MATTER
> > REGARDING THEIR PRODUCT, .VS THE "TRUTH" THAT NETWORKICE HAS
> > POSTED ABOUT THEIR FREE! FIREWALL, THEY CALL ZONE ALARM.

> >   Do you really think that Zone Labs will contest NetworkICE via
> > the pages they posted about Zone Alarm? I will save you the trouble
> > trolls: NO THEY WON'T, FOR THE TRUTH HURTS, AND LEGALLY THEY CAN'T
DO
> > SQUAT ABOUT IT, BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT IS THE TRUTH THAT NETWORKICE
> > POSTED ABOUT ZONE ALARM.

> >   If you want to blame anyone, blame the trolls in this group. Like
> > I said earlier, they either have their mitts in the money pool
> > like ZDTV/Tech TV does, or they are just plain stupid. I suspect the
> > latter part myself! Why? Because these same trolls, are the same
people
> > spreading infected copies of BlackICE Defender via the Internet on
the
> > WAREZ sites and Newsgroups for FREE download. The same goes for the
> > purchased copies that you buy from Zone Labs for Zone Alarm,
> > they are WAREZED also. (Don't be stupid and download these!)

> >   If you do download the illegal copies of these programs, or any
other
> > for that matter on the WAREZ sites, don't blame everyone else for
your
> > computer problems in the future. Just look yourself straight in the
> > face, and say your a dumb dumb for doing it. Now, go format your
> > hard drive, and start over on the right foot if you want to have
your
> > computer working right again. (You do know that most, if not all of
> > these free WAREZ programs have TROJANS in them, didn't
you? ...hehehe,
> > so much for FREE-WAREZ Programs huh?)

> >   Ok trolls, I gave you some info to go on, so hurry down to your
> > favorite Zone Lab Attorney and ask them what's up with NetworkICE
> > posting bogus (in the trolls opinion) info about their Zone Alarm
> > (FREE!) product.

> > I BET NOT ONE OF THESE TROLLS WILL DO THIS, AND I KNOW THEY WILL
GIVE
> > SOME LAME-ASS EXCUSE WHY THEY DIDN'T, OR WILL COME BACK WITH SOME
> > STUPID REPLY THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC ABOVE. OH, LET ME
> > NOT FORGET THE DUMB DUMB "REDIRECTED QUESTIONS" THEY WILL SUBMIT
> > EITHER CONCERNING THIS POST. THEY DO THIS ALL THE TIME.

> > Zone Labs, we await your LEGAL STANCE on this issue.

> > NetworkICE, go get'em! (HooRAH!)

> > (I bet Zone Labs will tuck their tail quietly up their rear-end on
this
> > issue!)

> > fini....

> > Internet Security 101 - (...you want proof? Here's ya
proof....<THWACK!
> > ><THWACK!><THWACK!>....THRASH A HACKER TODAY!     ;)

> > --
> > Firewall Information:
> > http://www.robertgraham.com/pubs/firewall-seen.html
> > Better Business Bureau: http://www.bbb.org
> > Internet Fraud: https://www.ifccfbi.gov/

> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.

--
Firewall Information:
http://www.robertgraham.com/pubs/firewall-seen.html
Better Business Bureau: http://www.bbb.org
Internet Fraud: https://www.ifccfbi.gov/

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Post by InternetSecurity10 » Thu, 16 Nov 2000 04:00:00


It would be more accurate to state, that you are inaccurate.

Internet Security 101



> On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 22:15:55 -0000, "Svenn Derrick"



Quote:

> >Ok, I like to be thorough, so I did a quick search on BlackICE
defender...

> >http://www.securiteam.com/securityreviews/BlackICE_Defender_-
_A_personal_Fir
> >ewall_for_the_novice_user.html (watch the wrap)

> >**BlackICE Defender, by Network ICE, is an excellent personal
firewall for
> >beginners and novice Internet users who wish to protect themselves
against
> >external attacks.**

> >**This product should not be used to defend against sophisticated
hacking
> >attempts, but it can be very effective in stopping and reporting (it
has a
> >nice 'evidence log' feature) most scanning attempts made by 'script
> >kiddies'. **

> >Any comments??

> Does anyone know if Network ICE has yet bothered to implement outbound
> filtering in their product? If not, I don't think one could really
call
> BID a true firewall as the above review seems to imply.

> This is not to say that BID is not a good product for many people
> (particularly those who are novices), but "intrusion detection
software"
> would be a more accurate label for BID.

--
Firewall Information:
http://www.robertgraham.com/pubs/firewall-seen.html
Better Business Bureau: http://www.bbb.org
Internet Fraud: https://www.ifccfbi.gov/

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Post by msu.. » Thu, 16 Nov 2000 04:00:00


Here's the "truth" the*head, I mean IPeeVee6, I mean IS101 (or
whatever the f**k it's name is this week) is talking about.
http://www.veryComputer.com/
There were two other hits on the query for zone alarm but the second
one only mentioned ZA in the title but not in the body of the text, and
the third hit was a list of the FAQ that pointed to the link above.

Just as a point of order, IS101, when you start taking a position of
one over another, you need to provide proof.  Proof would not include
your hot air but rather links to sites that would possibly support your
position.  If you had just posted link above and intelligently
discussed it, *maybe* newbies like me would take you more seriously.
But no, you found it more gratifying to just rant and rave and*
people off.

Just because a company doesn't choose legal action doesn't mean the
information is not true.  And it is not *solely* based on money.
Merit also comes into play.  Any worthy lawyer would take a case that
had clear merit and the good possibility of money as well, as opposed
to asking for money up front.  Up front money is usually an indication
that the case has no merit and less that good chance of winning.
Pull your head out of your a$$.

You know, I don't usually put people in a kill file since there *may*
be a shred of useful information available.
You, however, have reached the exception pile.  Your rantings have
burned up enough of my bandwidth and your information has been reduced
to trying to save your fragile ego before you, again, change your
handle and start up on some other task.

Crawl back into your box



meds and ranted:

> Truth hurts doesn't it?

> Zone Labs i.e., maker of Zone Alarm will "NOT" contest
> Networkice Corporation regarding their statements about
> Zone Alarm.....period. Because they state "FACT" about it.

> Why don't you quit your rambling about proof, when it is already
> there on Networkice Corporation web site? You don't see Zone Labs
> contesting it "LEGALLY", now do you troll?

> No you don't.

> I guess you will come back with some stupid statement like
> Zone Labs can't afford it?

> By the way, you are in "DENIAL" again.

> Internet Security 101



> > On Tue, 14 Nov 2000 01:12:57 GMT, InternetSecurity101


> > >To the trolls that replied being negative about my post
> > >concerning Zone Alarm .vs BlackICE Defender:

> > >  You said you wanted proof right? Ok, I have some serious
> > >stuff for you trolls:

> > >Go to www.networkice.com and go through their whole site
> > >looking for excerpts concerning Zone Alarm. Now, trod
> > >back to Zone Labs and point them to these pages that you
> > >found....if you find them, for I think you are not that smart
> > >in the first place!

> > The issue of burden of proof was already discussed at length a few
> > months ago when you went into your spasm of unsubstantiated
> accusations
> > against ZoneAlarm, and also several months before that when you made
> > wild accusations about so-called obvious security holes in Conseal
PC
> > Firewall.

> > Since it is impossible to prove the negative existence of something,
> it
> > is the responsibility of the accuser to show burden of proof for the
> > evidence supporting his claims. If you are seriously going to
convince
> > anyone of your point of view, it is your responsibility to
explicitly
> > show the data supporting your claims. Just giving a vague pointer
> of "go
> > to www.networkice.com" doesn't prove anything, and is downright
lazy.
> > What SPECIFIC page(s) on that website explicitly show reproduceable
> > evidence for your accusations?

> > You might as well claim to have proof of Bigfoot's existence and
> vaguely
> > point to some website, saying that it's up to everyone else to
search
> > through that website for your proof. Of course, if your proof
doesn't
> > exist, they'll never find it and you'll still continue to say that
the
> > evidence is on that website somewhere.

> > Well that's not the way burden of proof is supposed to work, so
where
> > specifically is your proof?

> > If you can indeed point the way to explicit evidence of ZoneAlarm
> > intentionally harming its users, I'm sure everyone interested in
> getting
> > at the truth would be very grateful, myself included. However, if no
> > such evidence exists you should stop making a greater fool of
yourself
> > than you already have.

> > Before you once again call me a ZoneLabs employee, let me restate
once
> > again that I have no use for ZoneAlarm since I use Conseal PC
Firewall
> > for my Win 9x machine, and the original AtGuard (not that piece of
> > bloatware *Norton Internet Security) for my Win 2000 machine.
Both
> > of those work just fine, so I see no reason to bother switching.

> > [snip]

> > >I BET NOT ONE OF THESE TROLLS WILL DO THIS, AND I KNOW THEY WILL
GIVE
> > >SOME LAME-ASS EXCUSE WHY THEY DIDN'T, OR WILL COME BACK WITH SOME
> > >STUPID REPLY THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TOPIC ABOVE. OH, LET
ME
> > >NOT FORGET THE DUMB DUMB "REDIRECTED QUESTIONS" THEY WILL SUBMIT
> > >EITHER CONCERNING THIS POST. THEY DO THIS ALL THE TIME.

> > >Zone Labs, we await your LEGAL STANCE on this issue.
> >             ^^

> > Do you always refer to yourself in the plural? Oh wait, you're
> probably
> > thinking of the royal "we," as in the English royal family
saying "We
> > are not amused." You must be getting visions of grandeur again.

> > >NetworkICE, go get'em! (HooRAH!)

> > >fini....
> >  ^^^^

> > LOL! Yeah right. (see below)

> > On Wed, 01 Nov 2000 01:53:20 GMT, InternetSecurity101


> > >Hello everyone,

> > >  With a sad heart, I must leave this advertising news group.

> > [snip]

> > >  With this, I lay to rest the knowledge that I have given, for the
> > >good, and not the bad. May the good prevail over the evil, and that
> > >one day, you shall see the light through your eye coins.

> > >"...seek and ye shall find. Find, and thou should ask the questions
> of
> > >truth and justice for all mankind." - Internet Security 101

> > >Goodbye my friends.....

> > What was that again? The third or fourth "goodbye" message you had
> > posted so far? And you even had to add some ridiculously
melodramatic
> > self-quote. Your "goodbye" messages are turning into some pretty
funny
> > entertainment seeing how you keep coming back. LOL!

> --
> Firewall Information:
> http://www.veryComputer.com/
> Better Business Bureau: http://www.veryComputer.com/
> Internet Fraud: https://www.ifccfbi.gov/

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.veryComputer.com/
> Before you buy.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.veryComputer.com/
Before you buy.
 
 
 

Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Post by Svenn Derric » Thu, 16 Nov 2000 04:00:00


Ok, so everyone else in this group was right, you are full of it...  Still
didn't see your answers to my questions and as for trolling, I think you
have that covered...

kerplonk...

--
Svenn Derrick
RSA CSE, MCSE, Compaq ASE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~svenn/

Remove "NOSPAM" to reply via email
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Always listen to experts.
They'll tell you what can't be done, and why.
Then do it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Quote:> Sorry you can't find it.

> lol

> And no, you are not new here. Deja already confirmed that.

> lol

> Nice try troll.

> Internet Security 101

<SNIP>
 
 
 

Want Proof? ZA .vs BlackICE Defender

Post by James Greerso » Thu, 16 Nov 2000 04:00:00


On Wed, 15 Nov 2000 08:43:02 GMT, InternetSecurity101




>> Does anyone know if Network ICE has yet bothered to implement outbound
>> filtering in their product? If not, I don't think one could really
>call
>> BID a true firewall as the above review seems to imply.

>> This is not to say that BID is not a good product for many people
>> (particularly those who are novices), but "intrusion detection
>software"
>> would be a more accurate label for BID.
>It would be more accurate to state, that you are inaccurate.

Could you please elaborate on why is inaccurate to call BID an IDS?

See Jester's reply which supports my statement that BID isn't really a
true firewall since it doesn't do any outbound blocking (that is, BID is
more accurately labeled an IDS).

Unlike you, Jester actually posted evidence to support his statements,
with directions on how one could independently verify them.

I strongly doubt you're actually going to reply to this message with any
sort of reasonable (that is, independently verifiable) facts to back
yourself up. More likely, you'll either not reply at all (which doesn't
help what shred of credibility you may retain), or you'll give some
laughably vague response of "Just look at www.networkice.com! It's
somewhere on that site! If you can't find the info, it's because you
didn't look!"

 
 
 

1. BlackIce / ZA or ZA / BlackIce?

I've recently gone broadband and used to run just ZoneAlarm.  I'd run
BlackIce Defender on a machine at work.

When the broadband came in I installed BlackIce on my PC so I'm now running
both.

THE QUESTION OF THE DAY IS:

In what order should they be loaded?  Currently ZA loads last.  Would it be
better if BlackIce loaded last?  Does it matter?  Who's on first (so to
speak)?

2. Formula1

3. ZA & BlackIce Defender together

4. Testing Bridge & Interfaces MIBs

5. BlackICE Defender vs. hardware firewall

6. Gray Data

7. BlackIce Defender vs ConSeal PD

8. ISDN, Waverunner, and OS/2

9. Choose BlackIce Defender vs. ELRON?

10. BlackIce Defender 1.9.4 <-- BlackIce can be shut down remotely!!!

11. winroute vs. blackice+za ??

12. Conseal PD vs. AtGuard vs. Blackice