Independent study that proves the value of information systems certifications

Independent study that proves the value of information systems certifications

Post by gk.. » Fri, 21 Jul 2000 04:00:00



Hello,

Does anyone know of any independent study that proves the value of
information systems certifications?

Why a lot of the certification companies make it seem like
certification is a panacea, is certification really a good investment?

What certifications have value?  Which are worthless?  What does a
certification mean?

Any ideas where I can get such information?

Thanks,

Gary

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Independent study that proves the value of information systems certifications

Post by Ronald Steedma » Fri, 21 Jul 2000 04:00:00


 You could look at the average salaries of those certified and those not
 certified - it shows how much more a certified employee is worth.

 CCIE's make $100K - $200K, for example. As you can guess the testing is
 very rigorous and not many people can claim CCIE status. It proves alot.

 With newer or less popular certifications average salaries may not be
 very informative. You can ignore them or do your own research into them.

 Look up the certification objectives to see what it demonstrates.

 -- Ron Steedman

: Hello,

: Does anyone know of any independent study that proves the value of
: information systems certifications?

: Why a lot of the certification companies make it seem like
: certification is a panacea, is certification really a good investment?

: What certifications have value?  Which are worthless?  What does a
: certification mean?

: Any ideas where I can get such information?

: Thanks,

: Gary

: Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
: Before you buy.

 
 
 

Independent study that proves the value of information systems certifications

Post by jabe_on » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Certification of individuals or systems?

> Hello,

> Does anyone know of any independent study that proves the value of
> information systems certifications?

> Why a lot of the certification companies make it seem like
> certification is a panacea, is certification really a good investment?

> What certifications have value?  Which are worthless?  What does a
> certification mean?

> Any ideas where I can get such information?

> Thanks,

> Gary

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.

 
 
 

Independent study that proves the value of information systems certifications

Post by H C » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Quote:> > Does anyone know of any independent study that proves the value of
> > information systems certifications?

I don't think you'll find one, Gary.  "Value" is a very subjective term.
For example, consider the CISSP certification for security professionals
(http://www.isc2.org)...
there are many companies in the DC metro area who are looking for
individuals with
this cert., and even on company (see the main web site) at which all
consultants are to be
certified.  However, if it came down to paying a guy with a CISSP what he's
worth versus
paying an annual salary for someone without the certification, just about
every company will
go with the uncertified individual.

However, keep in mind...certifications may not mean much (MCSE, for
example....)

Quote:> > Why a lot of the certification companies make it seem like
> > certification is a panacea, is certification really a good investment?

Why will a used car salesman try to make his lot of cars look great, even
better than
what's available on the new car lot next door?

Quote:> > What certifications have value?  Which are worthless?  What does a
> > certification mean?

Define "value".  My crack above about MCSEs is not a personal attack against
anyone...as a
security consultant, I have met with MCSEs who had no idea what the
Microsoft KnowledgeBase
is, or where to get the MS Security Bulletins...and I have also met
non-MCSEs who could run
rings around many certified sysadmins on just about any subject.

Certifications are meant to ensure that the certified individual meets a
minimum requirement of knowledge
so that prespective employers at least have an idea of what they are
getting.  The CISSP cert. is taking
an interesting approach of requiring continuing education...well, that, or
you have to pay money and retake
the exam every 3 yrs.

 
 
 

Independent study that proves the value of information systems certifications

Post by Ronald Steedma » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00


: Define "value".  My crack above about MCSEs is not a personal attack against
: anyone...as a
: security consultant, I have met with MCSEs who had no idea what the
: Microsoft KnowledgeBase
: is, or where to get the MS Security Bulletins...and I have also met
: non-MCSEs who could run
: rings around many certified sysadmins on just about any subject.

 In defense these are not the goals of the MCSE. I took one of the exams
 and it covered knowing the different network architectures and cables,
 having a basic idea how to set them up, knowing the differences between
 bridges, hubs, and routers and what each is good for, knowing where all
 the basic protocols fit on the OSI model, knowing about WAN connectivity
 options such ISDN BRI, Frame Relay, ATM, Sonet, etc., knowing how to
 troubleshoot simple network problems and which management options were
 best for networks of different sizes, knowing the different levels of
 RAID and having a very basic idea of how to setup security beginning with
 the physical security first and fault tolerance, basic virus protection.
 It also covers the different IEEE 802 specifications especially Ethernet
 and Token Ring, some ArcNet and integration with Novell, Appletalk, Unix.

 I learned alot from the preparation about how to design and setup a small
 network that will meet some set of business requirements, and some of the
 issues in a larger network.

: Certifications are meant to ensure that the certified individual meets a
: minimum requirement of knowledge

 Exactly.

 If you're looking for someone with THESE skills it is a good test.

 "Networking Essentials+" by Microsoft Press for those interested.

  -- Ron Steedman

 
 
 

Independent study that proves the value of information systems certifications

Post by H C » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00


Quote:>  In defense these are not the goals of the MCSE.
> I took one of the exams
>  and it covered knowing the different network architectures and cables,

Yes, that would be the Network Essentials exam.  However, even as you said, it
was only one exam, and not the entire certification.
 
 
 

Independent study that proves the value of information systems certifications

Post by Kirk » Tue, 25 Jul 2000 04:00:00


here here !!!   I totally agree :)  I'm a vp for a small systems engineering
company that specializes in providing information assurance (IA) and
security engineering solutions to the DoD community and, frankly, I'm very
tired of seeing government solicitations requiring special certifications,
like MCSE for our professional engineering staff.  I believe it is
ridiculous to require people who have MSEEs from major universities like
Berkeley to waste their time to study Microsoft's version of Networking
Essentials....give me a break !!!

However, such certifications have value and meaning if the purpose is to
demonstrate a level of knowledge necessary for the non-degreed individual.

Note:  the above comment is of a personal opinion and does not represent the
position of my company.

regards,
kirk immel


Quote:> > > Does anyone know of any independent study that proves the value of
> > > information systems certifications?

> I don't think you'll find one, Gary.  "Value" is a very subjective term.
> For example, consider the CISSP certification for security professionals
> (http://www.isc2.org)...
> there are many companies in the DC metro area who are looking for
> individuals with
> this cert., and even on company (see the main web site) at which all
> consultants are to be
> certified.  However, if it came down to paying a guy with a CISSP what
he's
> worth versus
> paying an annual salary for someone without the certification, just about
> every company will
> go with the uncertified individual.

> However, keep in mind...certifications may not mean much (MCSE, for
> example....)

> > > Why a lot of the certification companies make it seem like
> > > certification is a panacea, is certification really a good investment?

> Why will a used car salesman try to make his lot of cars look great, even
> better than
> what's available on the new car lot next door?

> > > What certifications have value?  Which are worthless?  What does a
> > > certification mean?

> Define "value".  My crack above about MCSEs is not a personal attack
against
> anyone...as a
> security consultant, I have met with MCSEs who had no idea what the
> Microsoft KnowledgeBase
> is, or where to get the MS Security Bulletins...and I have also met
> non-MCSEs who could run
> rings around many certified sysadmins on just about any subject.

> Certifications are meant to ensure that the certified individual meets a
> minimum requirement of knowledge
> so that prespective employers at least have an idea of what they are
> getting.  The CISSP cert. is taking
> an interesting approach of requiring continuing education...well, that, or
> you have to pay money and retake
> the exam every 3 yrs.

 
 
 

Independent study that proves the value of information systems certifications

Post by Ronald Steedma » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00


: ridiculous to require people who have MSEEs from major universities like
: Berkeley to waste their time to study Microsoft's version of Networking
: Essentials....give me a break !!!

 Actually I have a degree and I feel the certification material covers an
 entirely different realm.

 For example a degree might spend time talking about different ways that
 multiple access can be achieved on media with different properties and
 a historical look at successes and failures with Pure Aloha, Slotted
 Aloha, CSMA/CD, CSMA/CA, etc. You may write a program to simulate these
 protocols, and come up with ideal packet lengths for case situations.

 A certification tells you which cables and products to buy, how to get
 them connected and configured properly, and how to troubleshoot network
 problems.

 I think the difference is between "theoretical" and "practical".

 If I had to pick one I would pick practical. I do think the theoretical
 material has merit once you have mastered the practical stuff, and also
 the theoretical material will help you learn the practical material more
 quickly.

: However, such certifications have value and meaning if the purpose is to
: demonstrate a level of knowledge necessary for the non-degreed individual.

 And also useful if they want to show that they can actually do something
 and not just talk about the theory behind it.

  -- Ron Steedman

 
 
 

Independent study that proves the value of information systems certifications

Post by Ronald Steedma » Wed, 26 Jul 2000 04:00:00


:>  In defense these are not the goals of the MCSE.

:> I took one of the exams
:>  and it covered knowing the different network architectures and cables,

: Yes, that would be the Network Essentials exam.  However, even as you said, it
: was only one exam, and not the entire certification.

 But I have taken other certification exams from Microsoft. My point is
 they DO cover the material that they claim to cover.

 MCSEs are supposed to be able to design, implement, and support a network
 that primarily runs Microsoft software. If you want someone that is able
 to do those tasks then you want someone with an MCSE.

 If you want someone that knows about security, or Cisco routers, or ip
 address subnetting then you want someone with a different certification.
 Maybe both certifications since the other one might not cover networking.

  -- Ron Steedman

 
 
 

Independent study that proves the value of information systems certifications

Post by abcde.. » Wed, 09 Aug 2000 04:00:00




Quote:> > > Does anyone know of any independent study that proves the value of
> > > information systems certifications?

> I don't think you'll find one, Gary.  "Value" is a very subjective
term.
> For example, consider the CISSP certification for security
professionals
> (http://www.isc2.org)...
> there are many companies in the DC metro area who are looking for
> individuals with
> this cert., and even on company (see the main web site) at which all
> consultants are to be
> certified.  However, if it came down to paying a guy with a CISSP what
he's
> worth versus
> paying an annual salary for someone without the certification, just
about
> every company will
> go with the uncertified individual.

> However, keep in mind...certifications may not mean much (MCSE, for
> example....)

> > > Why a lot of the certification companies make it seem like
> > > certification is a panacea, is certification really a good
investment?

> Why will a used car salesman try to make his lot of cars look great,
even
> better than
> what's available on the new car lot next door?

> > > What certifications have value?  Which are worthless?  What does a
> > > certification mean?

> Define "value".  My crack above about MCSEs is not a personal attack
against
> anyone...as a
> security consultant, I have met with MCSEs who had no idea what the
> Microsoft KnowledgeBase
> is, or where to get the MS Security Bulletins...and I have also met
> non-MCSEs who could run
> rings around many certified sysadmins on just about any subject.

> Certifications are meant to ensure that the certified individual meets
a
> minimum requirement of knowledge
> so that prespective employers at least have an idea of what they are
> getting.  The CISSP cert. is taking
> an interesting approach of requiring continuing education...well,
that, or
> you have to pay money and retake
> the exam every 3 yrs.

> ---------------------------------------------

Value have two sorts: Subjective and Objective! Please, look at the home
page: http://www.angelfire.com/ga/chaok , you would find the correct
explanation and more.

This home page has also the whole text of the "New Labour Theory of
Value" in Chinese and English.

Reading without thinking is nonsense!!!

Man said there are many Mafia misuse internet, how could we fight
against such pigs??? Have you any good ideas?

----------------------------------

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

Independent study that proves the value of information systems certifications

Post by H C » Wed, 09 Aug 2000 04:00:00


And what, exactly, does your rather belated post have to do with the subject
at
hand?



> > > > Does anyone know of any independent study that proves the value of
> > > > information systems certifications?

> > I don't think you'll find one, Gary.  "Value" is a very subjective
> term.
> > For example, consider the CISSP certification for security
> professionals
> > (http://www.isc2.org)...
> > there are many companies in the DC metro area who are looking for
> > individuals with
> > this cert., and even on company (see the main web site) at which all
> > consultants are to be
> > certified.  However, if it came down to paying a guy with a CISSP what
> he's
> > worth versus
> > paying an annual salary for someone without the certification, just
> about
> > every company will
> > go with the uncertified individual.

> > However, keep in mind...certifications may not mean much (MCSE, for
> > example....)

> > > > Why a lot of the certification companies make it seem like
> > > > certification is a panacea, is certification really a good
> investment?

> > Why will a used car salesman try to make his lot of cars look great,
> even
> > better than
> > what's available on the new car lot next door?

> > > > What certifications have value?  Which are worthless?  What does a
> > > > certification mean?

> > Define "value".  My crack above about MCSEs is not a personal attack
> against
> > anyone...as a
> > security consultant, I have met with MCSEs who had no idea what the
> > Microsoft KnowledgeBase
> > is, or where to get the MS Security Bulletins...and I have also met
> > non-MCSEs who could run
> > rings around many certified sysadmins on just about any subject.

> > Certifications are meant to ensure that the certified individual meets
> a
> > minimum requirement of knowledge
> > so that prespective employers at least have an idea of what they are
> > getting.  The CISSP cert. is taking
> > an interesting approach of requiring continuing education...well,
> that, or
> > you have to pay money and retake
> > the exam every 3 yrs.

> > ---------------------------------------------

> Value have two sorts: Subjective and Objective! Please, look at the home
> page: http://www.angelfire.com/ga/chaok , you would find the correct
> explanation and more.

> This home page has also the whole text of the "New Labour Theory of
> Value" in Chinese and English.

> Reading without thinking is nonsense!!!

> Man said there are many Mafia misuse internet, how could we fight
> against such pigs??? Have you any good ideas?

> ----------------------------------

> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.