RDBMS-based Intranet groupware products vs Notes : RDBMS vs proprietary doc. storage

RDBMS-based Intranet groupware products vs Notes : RDBMS vs proprietary doc. storage

Post by Danny Lawren » Mon, 01 Jul 1996 04:00:00




>I am currently evaluating Intranet groupware products, competitors to Lotus Notes, for a
>2000 user project.
>Such products, for example recently launched Oracle Interoffice or OpenText Livelink
>Intranet, are usually based on a RDBMS such as Oracle7. Document files (Word etc.) are
>stored in BLOB long rows of the relational DBMS. Such an architecture seems to require a
>powerful (and expensive) server : for example, at least a bi-processor Sun Ultra 2, 256
>Mo RAM for about 200 concurrent users.
>OpenText France recommands to have the HTTPd running on one server and the RDBMS on
>another more powerful one.
>Implementing replication like for Notes would reduce a major benefit of Intranet
>architectures : the capacity for a single server to serve (well) several sites.
>so, RDBMS vs proprietary (such as Notes) document storage ?
>Has anyone experience of RDBMS Intranet products (InterOffice, Livelink etc.) handling
>hundreds of concurrent users efficiently on a single server ? Are RDBMS such as Oracle 7
>Universal Server mature enough for managing thousands of Word, Excel etc. files ?
>What hardware is required for the HTTPd and RDBMS compared to Lotus Notes 4 ?

I don't have any solid answers, my guess is that it depends on what
the specific situation is. I will make a couple of points:

First I'd like to mention that RDBMS's are "proprietary" formats as
well.  you access them via a "common" command set, namely SQL (as you
can Notes), but the On-Disk structures of an Oracle DB are different
from those of say a Sybase DB (as both are different from the Notes DB
structure).

Then there is the issue of whether an RDBMS is the right product for
what you describe above.  I think not, Notes excells at manitaining a
dattabase of documents, and that is what you seem to be describing,
trying to fit "thousands of Word, Excel etc. files" into an RDBMS
might work, but the amount of work it would take to get them into the
DB might be more trouble that it is worth.

Next is cost, Lotus has done a study on Notes vs. Intranets, I'm
pretty sure that it is on ther web site. I wouldn't take it as gospel,
but it is a place to start.  As you can guess, their study shows that
Notes is a cheaper solution, especially when you count the
administration time/personnel factors, it also points out the
advantages of using a unified solution like Notes vs. pulling together
an assortment of products which may or may not work together.

One last thing, I don't have the figures, but I'm willing to bet large
amounts of money that "a bi-processor Sun Ultra 2, 256 Mo RAM" would
be able to handle a LOT more than 200 Notes users.

--Danny Lawrence, Tiassa Technologies
  Lotus Notes Configuration, Development and Managment

 "Tiassa Dreams and plots are born"  --Steven Brust

 
 
 

RDBMS-based Intranet groupware products vs Notes : RDBMS vs proprietary doc. storage

Post by Jean-Philippe JAVE » Tue, 02 Jul 1996 04:00:00


I am currently evaluating Intranet groupware products, competitors to Lotus Notes, for a
2000 user project.

Such products, for example recently launched Oracle Interoffice or OpenText Livelink
Intranet, are usually based on a RDBMS such as Oracle7. Document files (Word etc.) are
stored in BLOB long rows of the relational DBMS. Such an architecture seems to require a
powerful (and expensive) server : for example, at least a bi-processor Sun Ultra 2, 256
Mo RAM for about 200 concurrent users.
OpenText France recommands to have the HTTPd running on one server and the RDBMS on
another more powerful one.
Implementing replication like for Notes would reduce a major benefit of Intranet
architectures : the capacity for a single server to serve (well) several sites.

so, RDBMS vs proprietary (such as Notes) document storage ?

Has anyone experience of RDBMS Intranet products (InterOffice, Livelink etc.) handling
hundreds of concurrent users efficiently on a single server ? Are RDBMS such as Oracle 7
Universal Server mature enough for managing thousands of Word, Excel etc. files ?
What hardware is required for the HTTPd and RDBMS compared to Lotus Notes 4 ?

Please answer by e-mail too.

Jean-Philippe JAVEL
Consultant
Valoris Groupe - Paris, France
Tel : (33.1) 41.90.31.11

 
 
 

RDBMS-based Intranet groupware products vs Notes : RDBMS vs proprietary doc. storage

Post by Pete Aspre » Tue, 02 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Quote:> Universal Server mature enough for managing thousands of Word, Excel etc. files ?
> What hardware is required for the HTTPd and RDBMS compared to Lotus Notes 4 ?

Check out last months PC Magazine for estimates of the number of
users on a multi-processor Pentium Pro can do...1000's of email users.
They speculate that a big Sun could handle a bunch more.
Pete
 
 
 

RDBMS-based Intranet groupware products vs Notes : RDBMS vs proprietary doc. storage

Post by Bill Rodrigue » Fri, 05 Jul 1996 04:00:00


In addition, you can have multiple sites hitting one Notes server.  If
the other site has the connectivity (T1, etc,) then it is simply a matter
of running the same protocol (probably TCP/IP).

Good luck......



> >I am currently evaluating Intranet groupware products, competitors to Lotus Notes, for a
> >2000 user project.

> >Such products, for example recently launched Oracle Interoffice or OpenText Livelink
> >Intranet, are usually based on a RDBMS such as Oracle7. Document files (Word etc.) are
> >stored in BLOB long rows of the relational DBMS. Such an architecture seems to require a
> >powerful (and expensive) server : for example, at least a bi-processor Sun Ultra 2, 256
> >Mo RAM for about 200 concurrent users.
> >OpenText France recommands to have the HTTPd running on one server and the RDBMS on
> >another more powerful one.
> >Implementing replication like for Notes would reduce a major benefit of Intranet
> >architectures : the capacity for a single server to serve (well) several sites.

> >so, RDBMS vs proprietary (such as Notes) document storage ?

> >Has anyone experience of RDBMS Intranet products (InterOffice, Livelink etc.) handling
> >hundreds of concurrent users efficiently on a single server ? Are RDBMS such as Oracle 7
> >Universal Server mature enough for managing thousands of Word, Excel etc. files ?
> >What hardware is required for the HTTPd and RDBMS compared to Lotus Notes 4 ?

> I don't have any solid answers, my guess is that it depends on what
> the specific situation is. I will make a couple of points:

> First I'd like to mention that RDBMS's are "proprietary" formats as
> well.  you access them via a "common" command set, namely SQL (as you
> can Notes), but the On-Disk structures of an Oracle DB are different
> from those of say a Sybase DB (as both are different from the Notes DB
> structure).

> Then there is the issue of whether an RDBMS is the right product for
> what you describe above.  I think not, Notes excells at manitaining a
> dattabase of documents, and that is what you seem to be describing,
> trying to fit "thousands of Word, Excel etc. files" into an RDBMS
> might work, but the amount of work it would take to get them into the
> DB might be more trouble that it is worth.

> Next is cost, Lotus has done a study on Notes vs. Intranets, I'm
> pretty sure that it is on ther web site. I wouldn't take it as gospel,
> but it is a place to start.  As you can guess, their study shows that
> Notes is a cheaper solution, especially when you count the
> administration time/personnel factors, it also points out the
> advantages of using a unified solution like Notes vs. pulling together
> an assortment of products which may or may not work together.

> One last thing, I don't have the figures, but I'm willing to bet large
> amounts of money that "a bi-processor Sun Ultra 2, 256 Mo RAM" would
> be able to handle a LOT more than 200 Notes users.

> --Danny Lawrence, Tiassa Technologies
>   Lotus Notes Configuration, Development and Managment

>  "Tiassa Dreams and plots are born"  --Steven Brust

 
 
 

RDBMS-based Intranet groupware products vs Notes : RDBMS vs proprietary doc. storage

Post by Bill Gervas » Tue, 09 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Notes versus other groupware solutions?  To me, it appears to be the
battle of the proprietary choices: GroupWise, Collabra, Exchange (if you
can truly call that "groupware").  Over the next couple of years I
suspect we'll see dozens of Internet-based solutions pop up, all claiming
to be "open" because they use Internet communications protocols, but in
reality they'll all just be more proprietary solutions, many of which
will die off over time.

Notes certainly isn't perfect.  The lack of version control sucks, and
the human interface can be pretty annoying at times.  It's upside is that
it does what it does well.  It tracks threads and provides reasonable
workflow with a programmer interface that is similar enough to Visual
Basic.  As an added bonus, it runs on lots of different OSs -- think
Microsoft Exchange will ever run on Solaris?

What about data publishing?  Contrast the cool features of Notes with the
brain-dead troff-wannabe that is HTML.  Java is so complex that it'll be
years before there are robust releases of standard tools that make it
accessible to non-programmers.

Lotus/IBM are being acceptably aggressive with pricing, and with Domino
technology for Web publishing, they might actually have something worth
marketing.  If they learn how to mass market software, we could see some
interesting changes in the internetworking industry, not just in
groupware.

I hate to sound like a commercial for Lotus, since I'm convinced that IBM
is capable of marketing sushi as cold dead fish, but as long as IBM
doesn't * it up too badly, Lotus Notes can probably maintain a decent
lead over its competitors for a long time coming.  It even has the
potential to take the Web server market on head first.

Time will tell if Lotus has the balls to market Notes properly, or if
they fumble it as badly as Xerox fumbled the Mac GUI.

 
 
 

RDBMS-based Intranet groupware products vs Notes : RDBMS vs proprietary doc. storage

Post by Vipul She » Wed, 17 Jul 1996 04:00:00


Hi,
With your Intranet solution, even if you do need two servers as
recommended, the http server would simply be serving html pages while
the other server handling the backend DBMS. The http server could be a
simple low end machine. Essentially you are distributing the
processing between two servers to improve overall performance. Nothing
wrong with that.
I would personally be a bit surprised if a Notes solution would give
you equal performance running on one machine. So please keep me posted
on this :)

Thanks
Vipul


>I am currently evaluating Intranet groupware products, competitors to Lotus Notes, for a
>2000 user project.
>Such products, for example recently launched Oracle Interoffice or OpenText Livelink
>Intranet, are usually based on a RDBMS such as Oracle7. Document files (Word etc.) are
>stored in BLOB long rows of the relational DBMS. Such an architecture seems to require a
>powerful (and expensive) server : for example, at least a bi-processor Sun Ultra 2, 256
>Mo RAM for about 200 concurrent users.
>OpenText France recommands to have the HTTPd running on one server and the RDBMS on
>another more powerful one.
>Implementing replication like for Notes would reduce a major benefit of Intranet
>architectures : the capacity for a single server to serve (well) several sites.
>so, RDBMS vs proprietary (such as Notes) document storage ?
>Has anyone experience of RDBMS Intranet products (InterOffice, Livelink etc.) handling
>hundreds of concurrent users efficiently on a single server ? Are RDBMS such as Oracle 7
>Universal Server mature enough for managing thousands of Word, Excel etc. files ?
>What hardware is required for the HTTPd and RDBMS compared to Lotus Notes 4 ?
>Please answer by e-mail too.
>Jean-Philippe JAVEL
>Consultant
>Valoris Groupe - Paris, France
>Tel : (33.1) 41.90.31.11

-------------------------------------------------
Vipul Sheth

Check out The Comlete Intranet Resource at
http://www.lochnet.com/client/smart/intranet.htm
-------------------------------------------------
 
 
 

1. RDBMS-based Intranet groupware products vs Notes : RDBMS vs proprietary

You are correct.  An internet based groupware solution has popped up
claiming to be open: Radnet's WebShare.  I do work for Radnet so this is
definitely biased.

Here is how WebShare is more open:

- WebShare uses a RDBMS accessed through ODBC as its database. The product
  is bundled with Sybase's SQL Anywhere.  You can replace this with the
  RDBMS of your choice.

- WebShare can optionally store file attachments and BLOBs like our picture
  field in the file system. This gives much higher performance.

- Forms and views are designed in native HTML.  There is support for
  JavaScript built into WebShare Designer.

- The server scripting language is Visual Basic compatible.

- WebShare can use several different user authentication methods to
  piggyback off of directory services you already have:

  MAPI directory services
  NT authentication
  HTTP basic authentication

  or you can use WebShare's built in authentication method.

- WebShare can integrate with the web server of your choice.  WebShare
  comes bundled with a Spyglass SSL server but can be used with any
  CGI or ISAPI compliant web server.

Of course there are limits to what you can do with HTML compared with a
proprietary client but there is great deal you can do with HTML.  We think
the tradeoff is worth it to support the new universal client - the web
browser.

Some of WebShare's cool features include:

- File attachments*
- Edittable Picture fields*
- Collapsable views
- Pictures in views
- A graphical calendar view
- Dynamic column sorting
- Unread marks
- Private views
- All administration is done through the web browser.

*WebShare uses Form-based File Upload in HTML (RFC 1867) which is currently
available only in Netscape 2.0+.

Radnet has a 60 day fully fuctional trial version of WebShare available for
download from www.radnet.com.  Also, the 8 starter applications that ship
with WebShare can be tried out online.

Chris Wysopal

http://www.radnet.com

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