MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

Post by Mitchell Swa » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 02:14:10



Anybody else wish that Palm would realize that sometimes the KISS rule
really does work?

I'm perfectly fine that some people, possibly the majority, are happy
with, even needful of, all the bells and whistles that are slathered
all over PDAs these days, but doesn't Palm realize there is a happy
medium somewhere in between?

Even with their Zire model, Palm went from bare bones basic, to "Holy
shit, what CAN'T I do with this?" with nothing in between.

Yes, that's an exaggeration, but the point stands.

I'm in a position in which I cannot have a camera on my PDA. I can't
have Bluetooth, I can't have WiFi, I can't have voice recording, I
can't have MP3 playback.  Because of this, I, and others who don't
want/need bells and whistles, are left out in the cold.

I have a M505.  I love it, but feel cheated that I can't take
advantage of some of the advances made by Palm because they couple
them with things that preclude me from owning the newer Palms.

That said, here is My Dream Palm (tm)

M505 Body
SD/MMC
128MB RAM (Heck, I'd be happy with 64)
320x320 Color Screen
OS5 (which entails the new processor)
Good old fashioned Graffiti

That's it.  No sliding hidden graffiti area, no 5-way navigation
button, (well, okay, that might be nice) no jog dial, no built-in
thumbboard, just a basic, yet powerful PDA. A *PDA*, not a recording
studio, not a portrait studio, not a cell phone, a PD*Assistant*.

How come it's so hard for Palm to understand that there might just be
a market for such a beast out here?

Anybody else feel the same?

--
Mitch
"While I am new to these things, I cannot help wondering whether it
might be disrepectful to vault over an altar that way."

 
 
 

MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

Post by Dere » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 02:44:05


On 24 Apr 2003, Mitchell Swan appeared before the congregation in
"comp.sys.palmtops.pilot" assembled, and proclaimed:

Quote:> Anybody else feel the same?

AMEN.

(that would be an affirmative.)

Derek

--

Democracy's greatest challenge is that a "majority" can be wrong.

 
 
 

MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

Post by Mark Sidarou » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 02:45:57



> button, (well, okay, that might be nice) no jog dial, no built-in

                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^
What are the negatives to a jog dial?

--
Mark

 
 
 

MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

Post by Mitchell Swa » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 03:47:26




> > button, (well, okay, that might be nice) no jog dial, no built-in
>                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> What are the negatives to a jog dial?

Other than price, which, due to my ignorance, may not be much, it's
just another of those bells and whistles that I really couldn't care
less about.

Not so much a negative, just an unnecessary (to me) plus.

--
Mitch
"While I am new to these things, I cannot help wondering whether it
might be disrepectful to vault over an altar that way."

 
 
 

MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

Post by Jan Kal » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 04:47:20





>> > button, (well, okay, that might be nice) no jog dial, no built-in
>>                                           ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> What are the negatives to a jog dial?

>Other than price, which, due to my ignorance, may not be much, it's
>just another of those bells and whistles that I really couldn't care
>less about.

>Not so much a negative, just an unnecessary (to me) plus.

I find that a jog dial is fantastic for one-handed reading of ebooks and
Avantgo/Plucker pages. You grab the PDA in your left hand and the thumb
naturally rests on the dial (at least it does on my HandEra 330) - I
select the links with my fingernail. But then I use the PDA a lot for
reading.

Similarly, for reading, there's nothing like soft-Graffiti area that
collapses on demand, increasing the display area by a third.

My best bet was that HandEra would come out with something like you
described plus jog dial and soft Graffiti, but, unfortunately, they've
decided to stop producing PDAs.

Cheers, Jan

--
 /"\  Jan Kalin (male, preferred languages: Slovene, English)
 \ /  http://charm.zag.si/eng/, email: "name dot surname AT zag dot si"
  X   ASCII ribbon campaign against HTML in mail and postings.
 / \  I'm a .signature virus. Copy me to help me spread.

 
 
 

MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

Post by Stan Gosnel » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:16:11




Quote:> That said, here is My Dream Palm (tm)

> M505 Body
> SD/MMC
> 128MB RAM (Heck, I'd be happy with 64)
> 320x320 Color Screen
> OS5 (which entails the new processor)
> Good old fashioned Graffiti

> That's it.  No sliding hidden graffiti area, no 5-way navigation
> button, (well, okay, that might be nice) no jog dial, no built-in
> thumbboard, just a basic, yet powerful PDA. A *PDA*, not a recording
> studio, not a portrait studio, not a cell phone, a PD*Assistant*.

> How come it's so hard for Palm to understand that there might just be
> a market for such a beast out here?

> Anybody else feel the same?

Yes, but I disagree slightly.  The M505 is too big.  I don't need color.  
I don't need a backlight.  I don't really need OS5.  What I use, & what
suits me well enough, is a Zire upgraded to 8MB.  An SD slot & more memory
would be nice, but I get by with 8MB fine, with a few MB still open.  

--
Regards,

Stan

 
 
 

MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

Post by Arthur Hage » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 09:45:22



Quote:> That said, here is My Dream Palm (tm)

> M505 Body
> SD/MMC
> 128MB RAM (Heck, I'd be happy with 64)
> 320x320 Color Screen
> OS5 (which entails the new processor)
> Good old fashioned Graffiti

> That's it.  No sliding hidden graffiti area, no 5-way navigation
> button, (well, okay, that might be nice) no jog dial, no built-in
> thumbboard, just a basic, yet powerful PDA. A *PDA*, not a recording
> studio, not a portrait studio, not a cell phone, a PD*Assistant*.

> How come it's so hard for Palm to understand that there might just be
> a market for such a beast out here?

> Anybody else feel the same?

*APPLAUSE*

What would be nice would be if they could make a Tungsten|C *without* a
built-in keyboard, *without* built-in WiFi, and *without* a Real SpamPlayer
(what do professionals need MP3 for anyhow?  If I were buying for my
employees, I'd pick a model without this "productivity feature").

Personally, I'd want to see a PalmOS 5 model with lots of RAM, greyscale
(for extended battery life) and no frills.  Preferably in the Vx design.
Why?  Because I use a PDA as a tool, and not as a toy.  Reliability, design
and ease of use is what matters to me, and every fancy gimmick you add
subtracts from all three.

Regards,
--
*Art

 
 
 

MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

Post by BenMa » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 13:22:35


Quote:>*APPLAUSE*

>What would be nice would be if they could make a Tungsten|C *without* a
>built-in keyboard, *without* built-in WiFi, and *without* a Real SpamPlayer
>(what do professionals need MP3 for anyhow?  If I were buying for my
>employees, I'd pick a model without this "productivity feature").

>Personally, I'd want to see a PalmOS 5 model with lots of RAM, greyscale
>(for extended battery life) and no frills.  Preferably in the Vx design.
>Why?  Because I use a PDA as a tool, and not as a toy.  Reliability, design
>and ease of use is what matters to me, and every fancy gimmick you add
>subtracts from all three.

>Regards,
>--
>*Art

*MORE APPLAUSE*
My HE330 screen is beginning to distort my graffiti input and I am forced to
get another Palm OS PDA.  I am glad to be able to get the Sony SJ20 precisely
for the above mentioned reasons; price is great ($149), 16 MB, don't really
need color though particularly with mapping programs it might be nice (prefer
longer battery life).  I wish it didn't use Sony's memory stick though.
Anyway, as the expression goes "HERE, HERE !!" in agreement with what's been
said in this thread.
Ben
 
 
 

MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

Post by teknofyl » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 16:50:28


I had a Vx that worked for me perfectly. I was given a Pocket PC as a gift
and around the same time, my work situation changed so that an
organizer/date book/contact manager and email reader were not that important
to me.

Now things have changed again and I need to replace my Vx. I don't need
bells and whistles particularly, but I do need to be able to sync email
which I am told the SJ22 does not do with Outlook. Can anyone tell me if the
SJ33 does do this?

From what I can tell, for the extra $100 dollars, you are paying for the
additional software and the MP3 player. Is this correct?

I have considered the Zire71, but I have absolutely no interest in having a
camera on my PDA. Contacts, date book, to do lists, sync email and great
battery life...that's all I'm looking for. What unit do I need?

Quote:> >*APPLAUSE*

> >What would be nice would be if they could make a Tungsten|C *without* a
> >built-in keyboard, *without* built-in WiFi, and *without* a Real
SpamPlayer
> >(what do professionals need MP3 for anyhow?  If I were buying for my
> >employees, I'd pick a model without this "productivity feature").

> >Personally, I'd want to see a PalmOS 5 model with lots of RAM, greyscale
> >(for extended battery life) and no frills.  Preferably in the Vx design.
> >Why?  Because I use a PDA as a tool, and not as a toy.  Reliability,
design
> >and ease of use is what matters to me, and every fancy gimmick you add
> >subtracts from all three.

> >Regards,
> >--
> >*Art

> *MORE APPLAUSE*
> My HE330 screen is beginning to distort my graffiti input and I am forced
to
> get another Palm OS PDA.  I am glad to be able to get the Sony SJ20
precisely
> for the above mentioned reasons; price is great ($149), 16 MB, don't
really
> need color though particularly with mapping programs it might be nice
(prefer
> longer battery life).  I wish it didn't use Sony's memory stick though.
> Anyway, as the expression goes "HERE, HERE !!" in agreement with what's
been
> said in this thread.
> Ben

 
 
 

MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

Post by Toby Guidr » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 20:29:46



Quote:> What would be nice would be if they could make a Tungsten|C
> [...] *without* a Real SpamPlayer [...]

FWIW, the T|C already comes without the SpamPlayer.  The audio jack isn't
stereo additionally.  It's mono input and output (like a cellphone).

Toby
--
 / "As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again,
I sat there thinking about life.  Was it nothing more than a bunch of
honking and yelling?  Sometimes it seemed that way." - Jack Handey

http://strangebrew.home.mindspring.com

 
 
 

MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

Post by Nick Postwo » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 23:18:19


That's a IIIxe, my palm.  Though, I think that a person is always
wanting a little more or less than what they have.  The IIIxe is great
since the keyboards are dirt cheap on ebay (got mine for 99 cents with
12 bucks shipping) and got the unit for $56.  8 megs seems limiting to
me.  I kinda wish I had a M125, but the keyboards run around $50 for
that.  But the expansion card...eh, shoulda woulda coulda.

I think the hardware should stay simple, but the apps, as I'm
currently trying to learn LapTopHack, should get more complex and
powerful.


> Yes, but I disagree slightly.  The M505 is too big.  I don't need color.  
> I don't need a backlight.  I don't really need OS5.  What I use, & what
> suits me well enough, is a Zire upgraded to 8MB.  An SD slot & more memory
> would be nice, but I get by with 8MB fine, with a few MB still open.

 
 
 

MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

Post by Stan Gosnel » Sun, 27 Apr 2003 00:28:36




 Anyway, as the

Quote:> expression goes "HERE, HERE !!" in agreement with what's been said in
> this thread. Ben

Technically, that should be "Hear, Hear!", not "Here, Here!".  As in hear
this, not in reference to a place.  Just another nit to pick.  ;-)

--
Regards,

Stan

 
 
 

MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

Post by Bob Dra » Sun, 27 Apr 2003 06:45:50



> Anybody else wish that Palm would realize that sometimes the KISS rule
> really does work?

> I'm perfectly fine that some people, possibly the majority, are happy
> with, even needful of, all the bells and whistles that are slathered
> all over PDAs these days, but doesn't Palm realize there is a happy
> medium somewhere in between?

> Even with their Zire model, Palm went from bare bones basic, to "Holy
> shit, what CAN'T I do with this?" with nothing in between.

> Yes, that's an exaggeration, but the point stands.

Everytime a new PDA comes out, people complain about
2 things: features it has and features it doesn't have
(along with size and price).

Quote:> I'm in a position in which I cannot have a camera on my PDA. I can't
> have Bluetooth, I can't have WiFi, I can't have voice recording, I
> can't have MP3 playback.  Because of this, I, and others who don't
> want/need bells and whistles, are left out in the cold.

You cannot have a camera? Why not? Are you physically unable
to avoid pushing the camera buttons if you know they are there?

Quote:> I have a M505.  I love it, but feel cheated that I can't take
> advantage of some of the advances made by Palm because they couple
> them with things that preclude me from owning the newer Palms.

> That said, here is My Dream Palm (tm)

> M505 Body
> SD/MMC
> 128MB RAM (Heck, I'd be happy with 64)
> 320x320 Color Screen
> OS5 (which entails the new processor)
> Good old fashioned Graffiti

Ok, so since your m505 has an SD slot (for 128MB memory),
you already have most of what you want:

  yes  M505 Body
  yes  SD/MMC
  yes  128MB RAM (Heck, I'd be happy with 64)
  no   320x320 Color Screen
  no   OS5 (which entails the new processor)
  yes  Good old fashioned Graffiti

So you want an m505 with a hi-res screen and faster processor.
This is such a small increment to what Palm has already made,
that it would be useless for them to build it. Most users
simply would not upgrade for such a small advancement in features.

Quote:> That's it.  No sliding hidden graffiti area, no 5-way navigation
> button, (well, okay, that might be nice) no jog dial, no built-in
> thumbboard, just a basic, yet powerful PDA. A *PDA*, not a recording
> studio, not a portrait studio, not a cell phone, a PD*Assistant*.

> How come it's so hard for Palm to understand that there might just be
> a market for such a beast out here?

Yes, I think they do realize this. But the market for such
a device is small (and will make them much less money, if any)
compared to PDAs with new features, it isn't worth it to build.

Palm could make custom PDAs that allow a user to select exactly
what features they want from a list. But that would make the PDA
itself much more expensive, would slow down time to market, and
create a support nightmare.

Palm has to make devices that are going to satisfy the largest
portion of the market, at the right price, such that they make
the most money. Its that simple. Your "perfect" PDA  choice
isn't being made because it doesn't fall into this catagory.

 
 
 

MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

Post by Craig Bower » Sun, 27 Apr 2003 07:38:57


Quote:> (what do professionals need MP3 for anyhow?  If I were buying for my
> employees, I'd pick a model without this "productivity feature").

Hmmm, doesn't work for me, anymore than yanking soundcards from the office
PC's.  There are plenty of uses for compressed audio playback (nothing
constrains this to music) even in the corporate environment.  I don't so
much like the idea of Palm pre-deciding what I'll do with the device, either
by an act of omission, or commission.

I agree with saving the expense of adding a DSP to a 33Mhz dragonball
processor device to make to handle MP3, but it's a whole different ball of
wax to omit a 2cent stereo headphone jack on an ARM based device.

People can't always anticipate future uses of a device at the time of
manufacture, except where you narrowly constrain latent functionality of the
device by lopping it's digital limbs off, so to speak, saving a few cents
here and there.  Surely there's more than enough $5-$10 components to debate
about, than the penny stuff like IR, stereo headphone jack, 12V DC port, jog
dial, a built-in mic, etc.

 
 
 

MY Dream Palm! KeepItSimple

Post by Michael Brenn » Sun, 27 Apr 2003 11:20:44


Buy a Palm m515 and a 256MB Lexar SD card. A great package at an affordable
price. Great size, reasonable battery, and 16MB of useable memory.

--mikeb



>I had a Vx that worked for me perfectly. I was given a Pocket PC as a gift
>and around the same time, my work situation changed so that an
>organizer/date book/contact manager and email reader were not that important
>to me.

>Now things have changed again and I need to replace my Vx. I don't need
>bells and whistles particularly, but I do need to be able to sync email
>which I am told the SJ22 does not do with Outlook. Can anyone tell me if the
>SJ33 does do this?

>From what I can tell, for the extra $100 dollars, you are paying for the
>additional software and the MP3 player. Is this correct?

>I have considered the Zire71, but I have absolutely no interest in having a
>camera on my PDA. Contacts, date book, to do lists, sync email and great
>battery life...that's all I'm looking for. What unit do I need?


>> >*APPLAUSE*

>> >What would be nice would be if they could make a Tungsten|C *without* a
>> >built-in keyboard, *without* built-in WiFi, and *without* a Real
>SpamPlayer
>> >(what do professionals need MP3 for anyhow?  If I were buying for my
>> >employees, I'd pick a model without this "productivity feature").

>> >Personally, I'd want to see a PalmOS 5 model with lots of RAM, greyscale
>> >(for extended battery life) and no frills.  Preferably in the Vx design.
>> >Why?  Because I use a PDA as a tool, and not as a toy.  Reliability,
>design
>> >and ease of use is what matters to me, and every fancy gimmick you add
>> >subtracts from all three.

>> >Regards,
>> >--
>> >*Art

>> *MORE APPLAUSE*
>> My HE330 screen is beginning to distort my graffiti input and I am forced
>to
>> get another Palm OS PDA.  I am glad to be able to get the Sony SJ20
>precisely
>> for the above mentioned reasons; price is great ($149), 16 MB, don't
>really
>> need color though particularly with mapping programs it might be nice
>(prefer
>> longer battery life).  I wish it didn't use Sony's memory stick though.
>> Anyway, as the expression goes "HERE, HERE !!" in agreement with what's
>been
>> said in this thread.
>> Ben