More Information for MFM Drives

More Information for MFM Drives

Post by Bryan Parkof » Tue, 07 May 2002 10:24:47



More Information for MFM Drives

    I know that we have already discussed the MFM drives couple months ago,
but I want to give you the consideration about one or more ideas to overcome
the hardware's design.  Please try to answer only one question below.

My question:
    MFM controller card is designed to detect the beginning header bits
before it begins to read only 512 bytes at this time.  The hardware's design
does not allow me to manipulate by reading each bits instead of bytes
however it has its own manipulation.

Your answer:
    Is it correct to my one question above?

    If my question is answered yes, it means that there is no way to FORCE
hardware's design to be modified in order to manipulate.  For example, it
can only read/write 720KB and 1.44MB.  It does not allow me to modify the
size such as 800KB and 1600KB.  If it is to be Universal (Not USB) MFM
drive, yes, it will be possible to modify the size.
    It is my goal to begin to design and build USB device driver that will
support ANY sizes including GCR + MFM formats by using low level through USB
device driver which it is the independment hardware rather than
stupid--old--traditional MFM hardware.
    What do you think?  Please advise.

--
Yours Truly,

Bryan Parkoff

 
 
 

More Information for MFM Drives

Post by Exeget » Tue, 07 May 2002 12:55:05



> More Information for MFM Drives

>     I know that we have already discussed the MFM drives couple months ago,
> but I want to give you the consideration about one or more ideas to overcome
> the hardware's design.  Please try to answer only one question below.

> My question:
>     MFM controller card is designed to detect the beginning header bits
> before it begins to read only 512 bytes at this time.  The hardware's design
> does not allow me to manipulate by reading each bits instead of bytes
> however it has its own manipulation.

> Your answer:
>     Is it correct to my one question above?

>     If my question is answered yes, it means that there is no way to FORCE
> hardware's design to be modified in order to manipulate.  For example, it
> can only read/write 720KB and 1.44MB.  It does not allow me to modify the
> size such as 800KB and 1600KB.  If it is to be Universal (Not USB) MFM
> drive, yes, it will be possible to modify the size.
>     It is my goal to begin to design and build USB device driver that will
> support ANY sizes including GCR + MFM formats by using low level through USB
> device driver which it is the independment hardware rather than
> stupid--old--traditional MFM hardware.
>     What do you think?  Please advise.

> --
> Yours Truly,

> Bryan Parkoff


I'll freely admit that I'm rather ignorant of technical matters, but
what does this have to do with the Apple II? There are, at present, no
USB adapters for any model of the II, and I've heard of none under
development (I wonder if any II could even handle the high rate of data
that USB can kick around). So your "goal" has, at present no Apple II
application, does it?

Besides, if I want to move files from a PC, I read them on one of my
older Macs and copy to a ProDOS 3.5" disk on the same machine. Then I
can copy to a 5.25" disk on a //gs.

Roy

 
 
 

More Information for MFM Drives

Post by David Wils » Tue, 07 May 2002 15:48:46



>There are, at present, no
>USB adapters for any model of the II, and I've heard of none under
>development (I wonder if any II could even handle the high rate of data
>that USB can kick around). So your "goal" has, at present no Apple II
>application, does it?

Just because USB can run at 12Mb/s does not mean that the Apple // would have
to pump data at that rate (which is only 1.5MB/s). USB also has a 1.5Mb/s
rate used by keyboards and mice (187.5kB/s) that an Apple // would have
no trouble keeping up with. Besides, any sensible design would use an on board
uP to handle the USB protocol rather than trying to get the 65x02 to handle it.

Making an Apple // into a USB target would probably be easier than making
it into a host.
--
David Wilson  School of IT & CS, Uni of Wollongong, Australia

 
 
 

More Information for MFM Drives

Post by Big Bi » Wed, 08 May 2002 03:06:43



< >     If my question is answered yes, it means that there is no way to FORCE
< > hardware's design to be modified in order to manipulate.  For example, it
< > can only read/write 720KB and 1.44MB.  It does not allow me to modify the
< > size such as 800KB and 1600KB.  If it is to be Universal (Not USB) MFM
< > drive, yes, it will be possible to modify the size.
<
< I'll freely admit that I'm rather ignorant of technical matters, but
< what does this have to do with the Apple II? There are, at present, no
< USB adapters for any model of the II, and I've heard of none under
< development (I wonder if any II could even handle the high rate of data
< that USB can kick around). So your "goal" has, at present no Apple II
< application, does it?
<
< Besides, if I want to move files from a PC, I read them on one of my
< older Macs and copy to a ProDOS 3.5" disk on the same machine. Then I
< can copy to a 5.25" disk on a //gs.

Yes, but many people don't have such hardware. A USB floppy drive that
could read 800k floppys woule be very useful to people dealing with
Apple IIs (and the Mac Plus and Mac II).

Mark Geary

--
    "Build high for happiness."

 
 
 

More Information for MFM Drives

Post by Exeget » Wed, 08 May 2002 07:15:10




>>There are, at present, no
>>USB adapters for any model of the II, and I've heard of none under
>>development (I wonder if any II could even handle the high rate of data
>>that USB can kick around). So your "goal" has, at present no Apple II
>>application, does it?

> Just because USB can run at 12Mb/s does not mean that the Apple // would have
> to pump data at that rate (which is only 1.5MB/s). USB also has a 1.5Mb/s
> rate used by keyboards and mice (187.5kB/s) that an Apple // would have
> no trouble keeping up with. Besides, any sensible design would use an on board
> uP to handle the USB protocol rather than trying to get the 65x02 to handle it.

> Making an Apple // into a USB target would probably be easier than making
> it into a host.

So it would be possible to do a USB card for the II, is that what you
are saying? Granted that that is the case, since there aren't any yet,
of what use is his idea of working on getting MFM drives to talk to the
nonexistant USB card on a II? Or is this a case of doing the hard part
(MFM to USB) first, since a USB card would be a snap for the II?

Roy

- Show quoted text -

Quote:> --
> David Wilson  School of IT & CS, Uni of Wollongong, Australia

 
 
 

More Information for MFM Drives

Post by David Wils » Wed, 08 May 2002 10:13:22





>>>There are, at present, no
>>>USB adapters for any model of the II, and I've heard of none under
>>>development (I wonder if any II could even handle the high rate of data
>>>that USB can kick around). So your "goal" has, at present no Apple II
>>>application, does it?

>> Just because USB can run at 12Mb/s does not mean that the Apple // would have
>> to pump data at that rate (which is only 1.5MB/s). USB also has a 1.5Mb/s
>> rate used by keyboards and mice (187.5kB/s) that an Apple // would have
>> no trouble keeping up with. Besides, any sensible design would use an on board
>> uP to handle the USB protocol rather than trying to get the 65x02 to handle it.

>> Making an Apple // into a USB target would probably be easier than making
>> it into a host.
>So it would be possible to do a USB card for the II, is that what you
>are saying? Granted that that is the case, since there aren't any yet,
>of what use is his idea of working on getting MFM drives to talk to the
>nonexistant USB card on a II? Or is this a case of doing the hard part
>(MFM to USB) first, since a USB card would be a snap for the II?

I think we need to restate the problem. A user has either a new Mac with
no inbuilt floppy drive or a PC. These systems cannot read or write 800KB
floppy disks. He has an Apple // with and 800KB drive and would like to
transfer data from one to the other. The obvious methods are:

1) Serial transfer (although new iMacs don't have serial ports) using ADT.
2) Ethernet (provided Apple // is a //gs the ethernet card is available)
3) Get an 800KB drive to work on the PC/Mac. This would have to be either
   a USB drive (PC/Mac) or Parallel port (PC).
4) USB from Mac/PC to Apple //. If a USB card were designed for the Apple //
   it could either be a host or a target. If a host it could run a standard
   USB floppy drive and read/write 1.44MB disks. If a target it could emulate
   a disk for the Mac/PC and read/write from/to the 800KB drive (given the
   appropriate software.
5) There are cards like Catweasel that can read/write Apple // disks on a PC.

There are probably many other methods as well.
--
David Wilson  School of IT & CS, Uni of Wollongong, Australia

 
 
 

More Information for MFM Drives

Post by Bryan Parkof » Thu, 09 May 2002 01:34:22


    My point is to build USB Device Driver with low level hardware.  It
means that I can build USB-Adapter Printed-Circuit Board that it can be used
both internal and external connecting to standard MFM floppy drive.
USB-Adapter PC Board will have an ability to read and write both GCR and MFM
formats.  It will plug on any PC machine and Macintosh machine.  It will
save a lot of time to do with transfer through cable and/or ethernet
network.
    It may be possible for me to design to build 1.5Mbps or 12Mbps (Depend
on Power Current) USB controller card for Apple II+ and //e.  It will have
another possibility to connect USB cable to Apple IIgs' ADB keyboard without
needing to use USB controller card.
    Yes, it is true that it does not exist, but it is my project that I am
working on this.

--
Yours Truly,

Bryan Parkoff


> More Information for MFM Drives

>     I know that we have already discussed the MFM drives couple months
ago,
> but I want to give you the consideration about one or more ideas to
overcome
> the hardware's design.  Please try to answer only one question below.

> My question:
>     MFM controller card is designed to detect the beginning header bits
> before it begins to read only 512 bytes at this time.  The hardware's
design
> does not allow me to manipulate by reading each bits instead of bytes
> however it has its own manipulation.

> Your answer:
>     Is it correct to my one question above?

>     If my question is answered yes, it means that there is no way to FORCE
> hardware's design to be modified in order to manipulate.  For example, it
> can only read/write 720KB and 1.44MB.  It does not allow me to modify the
> size such as 800KB and 1600KB.  If it is to be Universal (Not USB) MFM
> drive, yes, it will be possible to modify the size.
>     It is my goal to begin to design and build USB device driver that will
> support ANY sizes including GCR + MFM formats by using low level through
USB
> device driver which it is the independment hardware rather than
> stupid--old--traditional MFM hardware.
>     What do you think?  Please advise.

> --
> Yours Truly,

> Bryan Parkoff


 
 
 

1. Omti scsi to mfm controller in old supermac drives

Looking for info/people/software/etc do/havedone/does/etc:

The old supermac drives (I have a 20 and a 30 megger here in front of me)
all use SCSI to MFM controller and an MFM drive.

What I want to do is 1) make them work with more then 1 drive?
                     2) Use a bigger MFM drive...
                     3) make work on on something over than a mac
                        (I love macs, but also have pcs and suns...)
Anyone ever played with these little pups?
I have 2 versions of the supermac software, but i'd like to use
something else (like silverlining, or even ibm/sun drivers.. )
Any help would be apprecited, by not only myself, but lot of other folks...

Seth
(please email me, I will post results...)

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