Very Computer

Quote:>But in the case I'm talking about, the author has no need for the program,...

I just saw Jefferson Starship last night. They played "Have You Seen The
Saucers", something they they've rarely done since they played the Winterland
circuit in the late 60's. Paul Kantner decided he needed the income, and so he
went on the road. A song that had little or no value for years was part of what
I paid to see.

You never know if Mark Pelczaski is going to come out of retirement and try to
sell some of the stuff he did with Penguin. As long as he might, it has
potential monetary value.

Quote:>and derives no benefit from it...

Quote:>[after an extended time] he is still entitled to protection under the
>copyright law?

Quote:> You never know if Mark Pelczaski is going to come out of retirement and try to
> sell some of the stuff he did with Penguin. As long as he might, it has
> potential monetary value.

I AM ADVOCATING TRYING TO FIND THE AUTHOR AND ASKING HIM/HER/IT ABOUT THE
STATUS OF THEIR SOFTWARE. IF THE AUTHOR IS SO OUT OF TOUCH WITH COMPUTERS
THAT NO ONE CAN FIND HIM/HER/IT, IT'S SAFE TO SAY THAT THE AUTHOR IS NOT
LIKELY TO CARE ALL THAT MUCH ABOUT HIS/HER/ITS SOFTWARE WHICH HAS BEEN SITTING
AROUND AND ROTTING FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

Sorry for the caps, but I'm getting sick of saying this every time someone
posts. In the Penguin case, you would attempt to find Mark P. and ask him.
If you searched with all your might, and could not find him, I wouldn't be
upset if someone copied the software.

I have a stake in what I'm saying: I'm a programmer too. If I wrote something
for the VIC-20 ten years ago, I wouldn't now go to the trouble of releasing it
into the public domain. I wouldn't care if someone used it, but I wouldn't
go to the trouble of doing anything. To many people, the Apple II is like
a VIC-20.

Ed

--
Ed Watkeys, Sys Admin.  "...The errors of great men are more venerable
Distant Software         because they are more fruitful than the truths

Quote:>LIKELY TO CARE ALL THAT MUCH ABOUT HIS/HER/ITS SOFTWARE WHICH HAS BEEN SITTING
>AROUND AND ROTTING FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

>Sorry for the caps, but I'm getting sick of saying this every time someone
>posts. In the Penguin case, you would attempt to find Mark P. and ask him.
>If you searched with all your might, and could not find him, I wouldn't be
>upset if someone copied the software.

Quote:

>I have a stake in what I'm saying: I'm a programmer too. If I wrote something
>for the VIC-20 ten years ago, I wouldn't now go to the trouble of releasing it
>into the public domain. I wouldn't care if someone used it, but I wouldn't
>go to the trouble of doing anything. To many people, the Apple II is like
>a VIC-20.

>Ed

Seriously though. I don't think anyone has advocated you don't try to
find the copyright owner. And I think most of us could sympathise with
your desire to get a copy of that old software. But you can't guess
the intentions of the copyright owner. What if you did find the owner
and they said no way? Would you go ahead and copy it anyway?
You can't project your own morality to society as a whole. And while
it is all well and good to say that imm*laws exist and you won't
obey them, is that your morality or society's?
Yeah, that morality varies from one part of the country to the other.
But the examples cited in previous articles on this topic are local
laws (or state). Copyright law is a federal law.
You have to follow your own conscience I suppose, but you can't expect
the majority of the people to say 'Hey, you're right! I think I'll
break the law too.' Not when the majority's representatives voted
for the law in the first place. You can argue this till you are blue
in the face. But unless you can get some agreement on what is m*
or ethical about your approach, both sides will face each other and
shout 'I'm right!'.
*shrug*
-jeff

Quote:>     Apple II is like a VIC-20 ?!?!
>     Hangin's too good for him. :)

> Seriously though. I don't think anyone has advocated you don't try to
> find the copyright owner. And I think most of us could sympathise with
> your desire to get a copy of that old software. But you can't guess
> the intentions of the copyright owner. What if you did find the owner
> and they said no way? Would you go ahead and copy it anyway?

Quote:> You can't project your own morality to society as a whole. And while
> it is all well and good to say that imm*laws exist and you won't
> obey them, is that your morality or society's?

Quote:> Yeah, that morality varies from one part of the country to the other.
> But the examples cited in previous articles on this topic are local
> laws (or state). Copyright law is a federal law.

Quote:> You have to follow your own conscience I suppose, but you can't expect
> the majority of the people to say 'Hey, you're right! I think I'll
> break the law too.' Not when the majority's representatives voted
> for the law in the first place. You can argue this till you are blue
> in the face. But unless you can get some agreement on what is m*
> or ethical about your approach, both sides will face each other and
> shout 'I'm right!'.
> *shrug*
> -jeff

If this were a different group, I'd take up the fight on whather or not the
laws represent the will of the people.

Ed

--
Ed Watkeys, Sys Admin.  "...The errors of great men are more venerable
Distant Software         because they are more fruitful than the truths

Well, it seems pretty clear to me where the line is dividing people on
this copyright issue.  Someone a few messages back suggested that if
we had any good ideas, we should send them to our congressional rep's.
So why don't we throw some ideas around about that?  My first thought
on the subject would be to make software copyrights easier to loose
(wait! Don't scream yet!), and would go something like:

If the software was no longer publicly availible (whether sold normally,
shareware, sold by company only, or whatever..) for a given period
of time (say a year or so), then the copyright holder would have to fill
out a form (like to say small, or easy, but this is the government here :)
to keep his/her copyright.  Possibly having to fill out another form every
year or every 5 years or something (while the program is not availible).

Something like this would be mainly to find out if the copyright holder
still _cared_ about his copyright even though the program wasn't
availible anywhere.

What do think?  Anyone got another solution?  Anyone think this one has
serious flaws?

Josh

AOL:  JoshWilson

AE's PC Transporter w/ 768k ram (can be used as a ram disk too)
        3 1/5 drive
        5 1/4 drive
        IBM style keyboard and cable
        GS interface kit (allows PCT to use GS monitor) - can also use in
                                                          other //'s.  Mail me.
        Software, manual and Video.
          $250/obo

AE's GS Ram with 2.5 megs.  I don't really know what it's worth, but maybe
around $110 (Quality charges a lot more than that just for the ram :).

I also have some Corvus network stuff that I'd like to sell.  If you're into
Corvus, send me mail.

I also have a *, and don't use it very often.  I don't really want to
sell it, but if someone makes me an offer I can't refuse or wants to trade
something really great for it, fine.

Stuff I'm looking for:  Audio Animator, Cd-rom, fast modem, big HD, Video
                        overlay, etc.

Josh  (current phone# is 805-756-4321)

AOL: JoshWilson

I think it's ridiculous for a no-longer-available product to still be
protected by copyright UNLESS the publisher and/or author still WANTED it to
be protected.

This arrangement would be beneficial to users who have seen or heard of the
"perfect software" but have found that the software has been unavailable for
a long time.  I'd love to get copies of a lot of the classic games, but
can't because they're copyrighted.  And the publishers certainly aren't
losing anything since they weren't bringing in any new revenues from the
products anyway.

- Eric S.

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I believe Scott is referring to a possibly upcoming product for the
Amiga called Emplant. If this product ever does surface than it will indeed
emulate the IIfx provided you get the ROM's.

The Amiga line is not dying by the way. It's doing just fine. Piracy exists
on all platforms and is not the cause for the GS's current situation. In
fact access to "free" software probably sells a lot of micros. Few people
for example would buy PC's if they had to pay the price for PC sw.

The idea with the GS is that we all have a very good opportunity of
providing a good platform with reasonably priced software which covers
a broad range of applications. The other platforms aren't in that position.
The main reason for the current situation with the GS is very simply the
price of the computer. It should cost half what it does, if not less.

That is $1000 should get you a complete zip'd GS with a HD and colour
monitor. And that price should include stereo sound and 2megs of RAM. That
is the most a new system should cost. I'm talking of a 40->80 meg system.

[ ]

Philip McDunnough

   Btw... I just got an Amiga 500... nice computer....

       But I still want my //GS!!! hahahah... :)

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