Help needed with Apple IIgs monitor

Help needed with Apple IIgs monitor

Post by Mike Pra » Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:14:55



I recently got an AppleColor High Resolution RGB monitor, and tried to use it
with my Apple IIgs.  When I started the computer, I was able to see the green
background (my default background color is set to green), but the text looked
wavy and garbled.  Does this monitor work with the IIgs?  If so, is there
something special (new controller card?) that I need?

Thanks,
Mike Pratt

--
http://www.fixtraffic.org
Fighting for the Rebuilding and Expansion
of Southern California's Freeway and Highway System
Discussion at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sc_hwys

 
 
 

Help needed with Apple IIgs monitor

Post by Scrounge Wease » Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:33:12


Sorry, man.  I had one of those, too, but the sync frequency for that
monitor is twice what the IIgs puts out.  You're out of luck, unless you get
some extra hardware in between the IIgs and the monitor, which isn't worth
the money at all.

I found that the NEC Multisync 2A works with the IIgs, though, with nothing
but a DB15-HD15 adapter.


Quote:> I recently got an AppleColor High Resolution RGB monitor, and tried to use
it
> with my Apple IIgs.  When I started the computer, I was able to see the
green
> background (my default background color is set to green), but the text
looked
> wavy and garbled.  Does this monitor work with the IIgs?  If so, is there
> something special (new controller card?) that I need?

> Thanks,
> Mike Pratt

> --
> http://www.fixtraffic.org
> Fighting for the Rebuilding and Expansion
> of Southern California's Freeway and Highway System
> Discussion at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sc_hwys


 
 
 

Help needed with Apple IIgs monitor

Post by Mike Pra » Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:42:17



>Sorry, man.  I had one of those, too, but the sync frequency for that
>monitor is twice what the IIgs puts out.  You're out of luck, unless you get
>some extra hardware in between the IIgs and the monitor, which isn't worth
>the money at all.

Darn.  Then I guess I'll get rid of it.  I got it for free anyway.  The monitor
that came with my IIgs still works, but I wanted a new one because one of the
adjustment dials on the side of the monitor is pushed in farther than it should
be, and I'm afraid that it might fall into the monitor and cause a short
circuit.  I have gotten instructions on how to fix it, so I guess I'll try to
fix it.

Quote:>I found that the NEC Multisync 2A works with the IIgs, though, with nothing
>but a DB15-HD15 adapter.

OK, I'm going to ask a dumb question:  What is a DB15-HD15 adaptor?  Is this
just some kind of cable?

Mike Pratt

--
http://www.fixtraffic.org
Fighting for the Rebuilding and Expansion
of Southern California's Freeway and Highway System
Discussion at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sc_hwys

 
 
 

Help needed with Apple IIgs monitor

Post by David Emps » Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:54:54



> DB15 is what IIgs and Mac used for video connectors.  HD15 is an IBM VGA
> connector.  They both have 15 pins, but the HD15 is packed with a higher
> density than the DB15.
>  _______________     _______________
> \o o o o o o o o/   \   o o o o o   /
>  \o o o o o o o/     \ o o o o o   /
>   -------------       \ o o o o o /
>                        -----------
>       DB15                 HD15

The one on the left is a "DA15", not a "DB15".  The letter after the "D"
refers to the physical size of the connector.

Assuming two rows of pins with the usual spacing and staggered
arrangement, the common connectors defined by the relevant DIN standard
are:

DA15 (Mac/IIgs/IIc video connector, AUI port for Ethernet, PC joystick)
DB25 (serial or parallel port, Mac/A2 SCSI port)
DE9 (IIe/IIc/IIgs joystick, IIc/IIe/Mac mouse, PC serial port)

There are also DC and DD prefixes, which are for larger connectors which
I haven't come across in the realm of personal computers.  I forget the
exact number of pins, but one of them is about 37 pins in two rows, and
the other is about 50 pins in three rows (with the same pin spacing as
the others, so the connector is taller).

The 19 pin connector used for the floppy drive on the IIe/IIc/IIgs/Mac
is one which falls outside the originally designated types, so it
doesn't have an official second letter.  I use "D-19".

The VGA connector could be called a "DE15", as it is the same physical
size as a DE9 but has 15 pins with tighter spacing.  "HD15" is probably
a better choice, though it might be confused with other high density
connectors.

 
 
 

Help needed with Apple IIgs monitor

Post by Scrounge Wease » Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:41:53


Sorry if I've misinformed anyone, but that's what I was taught.  At least
some people agree with me.

PC serial port cable being called a DB9, with picture:
http://www.cornerstonecables.com/DB9SerialCables.htm

Macintosh video connector labelled DB15, with picture:
http://www.monitorworld.com/Cables/Db15_page.html

Joystick cabling named as DB15, with picture, and mentioned as working as a
Mac monitor extension cable:
http://www.cablesnmor.com/joystick.html

Of course, one thing I didn't mention was that my ascii drawings aren't to
scale.  The HD15 *is* the same size as a D?9 connector, which makes it the
same height as the D?15.



> > DB15 is what IIgs and Mac used for video connectors.  HD15 is an IBM VGA
> > connector.  They both have 15 pins, but the HD15 is packed with a higher
> > density than the DB15.
> >  _______________     _______________
> > \o o o o o o o o/   \   o o o o o   /
> >  \o o o o o o o/     \ o o o o o   /
> >   -------------       \ o o o o o /
> >                        -----------
> >       DB15                 HD15

> The one on the left is a "DA15", not a "DB15".  The letter after the "D"
> refers to the physical size of the connector.

> Assuming two rows of pins with the usual spacing and staggered
> arrangement, the common connectors defined by the relevant DIN standard
> are:

> DA15 (Mac/IIgs/IIc video connector, AUI port for Ethernet, PC joystick)
> DB25 (serial or parallel port, Mac/A2 SCSI port)
> DE9 (IIe/IIc/IIgs joystick, IIc/IIe/Mac mouse, PC serial port)

> There are also DC and DD prefixes, which are for larger connectors which
> I haven't come across in the realm of personal computers.  I forget the
> exact number of pins, but one of them is about 37 pins in two rows, and
> the other is about 50 pins in three rows (with the same pin spacing as
> the others, so the connector is taller).

> The 19 pin connector used for the floppy drive on the IIe/IIc/IIgs/Mac
> is one which falls outside the originally designated types, so it
> doesn't have an official second letter.  I use "D-19".

> The VGA connector could be called a "DE15", as it is the same physical
> size as a DE9 but has 15 pins with tighter spacing.  "HD15" is probably
> a better choice, though it might be confused with other high density
> connectors.

 
 
 

Help needed with Apple IIgs monitor

Post by Michael J. Mah » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 04:15:37



>The letter after the "D"
>refers to the physical size of the connector.

>Assuming two rows of pins with the usual spacing and staggered
>arrangement, the common connectors defined by the relevant DIN standard
>are:

>DA15 (Mac/IIgs/IIc video connector, AUI port for Ethernet, PC joystick)
>DB25 (serial or parallel port, Mac/A2 SCSI port)
>DE9 (IIe/IIc/IIgs joystick, IIc/IIe/Mac mouse, PC serial port)

>There are also DC and DD prefixes, which are for larger connectors which
>I haven't come across in the realm of personal computers.  I forget the
>exact number of pins, but one of them is about 37 pins in two rows, and
>the other is about 50 pins in three rows (with the same pin spacing as
>the others, so the connector is taller).

>The 19 pin connector used for the floppy drive on the IIe/IIc/IIgs/Mac
>is one which falls outside the originally designated types, so it
>doesn't have an official second letter.  I use "D-19".

David, what you have written is absolutely correct (as usual!), but I
think that the nomenclature of "D" series connectors has now become
a matter of common usage rather than original intent.  Sometimes
the inventor loses control of the invention!

High-density D connectors are now universally tagged as "high density"
eliminating any possible confusion with the older variety.  And the older
D connectors are uniquely specified by the number of pins.  The result
is that the suffix after the "D" has become redundant and all such
connectors are now commonly denominated as "DBxx", after the most
common one, the DB25.

This is somewhat analogous to the use of the "Centronix" designation
for a 34-pin Blue Ribbon connector, or, by extension "x-pin Centronix"
for any Blue Ribbon connector at all!  (Particularly strange, since they
are Amphenol designs, and Centronix only popularized them on their
printers.)

I think it will be harder to change this than to get people to stop
calling all * tissues Kleenex.  ;-)  And, since there is no chance
of confusion, why bother?  (Though the original "intended" nomenclature
of D-series connectors makes a great trivia question!  ;-)

-michael


 Home page:  http://www.veryComputer.com/

 
 
 

Help needed with Apple IIgs monitor

Post by Frank Townsen » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 01:54:29


All good examples of the fact that the web is an excellent source of
misinformation ;-)


Quote:> Sorry if I've misinformed anyone, but that's what I was taught.  At least
> some people agree with me.

> PC serial port cable being called a DB9, with picture:
> http://www.cornerstonecables.com/DB9SerialCables.htm

> Macintosh video connector labelled DB15, with picture:
> http://www.monitorworld.com/Cables/Db15_page.html

> Joystick cabling named as DB15, with picture, and mentioned as working as
a
> Mac monitor extension cable:
> http://www.cablesnmor.com/joystick.html

 
 
 

Help needed with Apple IIgs monitor

Post by Scrounge Wease » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:49:47


Like literally everything I know about computers and electronics, I learned
about D-sub designations from my street-hacker approach to learning: get
your hands on it and play.  Since that's how Radio Shack and my electronics
catalogs referred to that style of connector, that's what I learned to call
them, too.  That argues very strongly that the "common usage" theory of DB-x
nomenclature is correct.

Also, you're exactly right about Centronics connectors.  I know what those
are immediately.  "Amphenol" took me a few seconds to recall. :)

Michael and David, you've both posted what is, to me, very interesting
information.  Thanks for the knowledge.

Of course, this does nothing to change the fact that the NEC Multisync 2A is
a good monitor choice for the IIgs.  ;)

And now for my final annoyance... I'm a top-poster!

Speakin' through the Love Filter,
Le Scrounge Weasl




> >The letter after the "D"
> >refers to the physical size of the connector.

> >Assuming two rows of pins with the usual spacing and staggered
> >arrangement, the common connectors defined by the relevant DIN standard
> >are:

> >DA15 (Mac/IIgs/IIc video connector, AUI port for Ethernet, PC joystick)
> >DB25 (serial or parallel port, Mac/A2 SCSI port)
> >DE9 (IIe/IIc/IIgs joystick, IIc/IIe/Mac mouse, PC serial port)

> >There are also DC and DD prefixes, which are for larger connectors which
> >I haven't come across in the realm of personal computers.  I forget the
> >exact number of pins, but one of them is about 37 pins in two rows, and
> >the other is about 50 pins in three rows (with the same pin spacing as
> >the others, so the connector is taller).

> >The 19 pin connector used for the floppy drive on the IIe/IIc/IIgs/Mac
> >is one which falls outside the originally designated types, so it
> >doesn't have an official second letter.  I use "D-19".

> David, what you have written is absolutely correct (as usual!), but I
> think that the nomenclature of "D" series connectors has now become
> a matter of common usage rather than original intent.  Sometimes
> the inventor loses control of the invention!

> High-density D connectors are now universally tagged as "high density"
> eliminating any possible confusion with the older variety.  And the older
> D connectors are uniquely specified by the number of pins.  The result
> is that the suffix after the "D" has become redundant and all such
> connectors are now commonly denominated as "DBxx", after the most
> common one, the DB25.

> This is somewhat analogous to the use of the "Centronix" designation
> for a 34-pin Blue Ribbon connector, or, by extension "x-pin Centronix"
> for any Blue Ribbon connector at all!  (Particularly strange, since they
> are Amphenol designs, and Centronix only popularized them on their
> printers.)

> I think it will be harder to change this than to get people to stop
> calling all * tissues Kleenex.  ;-)  And, since there is no chance
> of confusion, why bother?  (Though the original "intended" nomenclature
> of D-series connectors makes a great trivia question!  ;-)

> -michael


>  Home page:  http://www.veryComputer.com/

 
 
 

Help needed with Apple IIgs monitor

Post by David Wils » Sun, 28 Oct 2001 12:03:02



>> DA15 (Mac/IIgs/IIc video connector, AUI port for Ethernet, PC joystick)
>> DB25 (serial or parallel port, Mac/A2 SCSI port)
>> DE9 (IIe/IIc/IIgs joystick, IIc/IIe/Mac mouse, PC serial port)

>> There are also DC and DD prefixes, which are for larger connectors which
>> I haven't come across in the realm of personal computers.  I forget the
>> exact number of pins, but one of them is about 37 pins in two rows, and
>> the other is about 50 pins in three rows (with the same pin spacing as
>> the others, so the connector is taller).

DC-37 was used for the external floppy drive on original IBM PC.
DD-50 was used for SCSI port on old Sun 3 and Sun 4 computers (I guess
some of these count as personal computers).

Quote:>> The 19 pin connector used for the floppy drive on the IIe/IIc/IIgs/Mac
>> is one which falls outside the originally designated types, so it
>> doesn't have an official second letter.  I use "D-19".

Ditto for D-21 Amiga floppy drive connectors.

Even the connector manuafacturer web sites are calling them DB9 and DB15
so I guess common usage won this particular battle.
--
David Wilson  School of IT & CS, Uni of Wollongong, Australia

 
 
 

1. Need help for repair of Apple IIgs Monitor!

Hi everyone,

the monitor of my old Apple IIgs just died, and I would greatly
appreciate some hints on how to fix it.

The monitor is labelled "Apple Color RGB Monitor". The screen diagonal
is 11" (estimated). It's the one that was usually bundled with an Apple
IIgs.

The symptoms are the following:

For over a year, the monitor occasionally went black, but always came
back to life when given a gentle hit on its right side. Now, it no
longer does.
When I turn it on, I can hear the "degauss procedure" being done. The
normal hiss of the power supply can also be heard. The power LED stays
dark however.

I have already checked as many plugs and cables as possible (also inside
the monitor), but without success. When I turn the brightness to maximum
(using the "screen" control inside the monitor), I can see a horizontal
white line in the middle of the screen. I guess this means that the high
voltage supply and the horizontal deflection unit are still working but
the vertical deflection unit is not. Unfortunately, I have no idea how
to fix it ... it's probably only a minor problem, because for such a
long time, a hit on the side was enough to _temporally_ fix it. But I
have no idea _what_ part is failing.

Any suggestions?

        Guido

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