## Wanted: Help with figure placement!!

### Wanted: Help with figure placement!!

>> Organization: Forschungszentrum Juelich
>> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1993 09:02:30 +02

>> Newsgroups: comp.text.tex,de.comp.tex
>> Subject: Wanted: Help with figure placement!!!

>> Hi there,

>> I'am trying hard to complete my Ph.D. thesis using the ArborText TeX-package,
>> but I still have great problems with the placement of the figures.

>> For example:

>> In one chapter there first comes a figure that is to large for the current page
>> due to the chapterheading. Using the [htb]-options it is placed one the next
>> page. So far no problem. But one the same first page there is a second figure
>> enviroment that will take a hole page. But instead of placing this one on the
>> third page it is placed at the end of the chapter and so are all other
>> following figures.
>> I set \textfraction to 0.0, \topfraction to 1.0 and \bottomfraction to
>> 1.0.
>> Okay, I could use a \clearpage or so, but isn't there a more
>> elegant way to bring figure 2 on the third page. Even if the figure is to
>> large, why is it placed one the last instead of the following page?

>> Any infos a greatly appreciated.

>> Markus Wollgarten

>> or

>Here's the advice I used to give graduate students when I worked at Iowa
>State University and which I followed myself when I subsequently did my own
>thesis:

>1. Use [p] for figures which you know will take up a whole page. Always use
>   [htb] for all others.

>2. Define your figures a few paragraphs <before> where you want them to appear
>   as this seems to give*enough flexibility in placement to get it right
>   most of the time.

>If you don't tell*that a figure takes up a full page by using the [p]
>option then I have found that it will almost invariably end up putting that
>figure and all those that follow at the end of the chapter.

>If you need more help please don't hesitate to contact me.

I have a very similar problem which is driving me mad. My supervisor
wants all figures and tables on non-text pages so I use [p] for all my
figures and tables. Isn't this what [p] is for, it doesn't mean
full-page as you say above but place it on a page of floats-only.

Well, that works fine but for some reason all the floats get emmitted
together in a string of 5 or so pages towards the end but not at the end
of the chapter.

Why the hell is this happening and how do I get it to output the float
pages at the first page after the float page can be filled?

--
Paul Richards, University of Wales, College Cardiff

### Wanted: Help with figure placement!!

>>> Organization: Forschungszentrum Juelich
>>> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1993 09:02:30 +02

>>> Newsgroups: comp.text.tex,de.comp.tex
>>> Subject: Wanted: Help with figure placement!!!

>>> Hi there,

>>> I'am trying hard to complete my Ph.D. thesis using the ArborText TeX-package,
>>> but I still have great problems with the placement of the figures.

>>> For example:

>>> In one chapter there first comes a figure that is to large for the current page
>>> due to the chapterheading. Using the [htb]-options it is placed one the next
>>> page. So far no problem. But one the same first page there is a second figure
>>> enviroment that will take a hole page. But instead of placing this one on the
>>> third page it is placed at the end of the chapter and so are all other
>>> following figures.
>>> I set \textfraction to 0.0, \topfraction to 1.0 and \bottomfraction to
>>> 1.0.
>>> Okay, I could use a \clearpage or so, but isn't there a more
>>> elegant way to bring figure 2 on the third page. Even if the figure is to
>>> large, why is it placed one the last instead of the following page?

>>> Any infos a greatly appreciated.

>>> Markus Wollgarten

>>> or

>>Here's the advice I used to give graduate students when I worked at Iowa
>>State University and which I followed myself when I subsequently did my own
>>thesis:

>>1. Use [p] for figures which you know will take up a whole page. Always use
>>   [htb] for all others.

>>2. Define your figures a few paragraphs <before> where you want them to appear
>>   as this seems to give*enough flexibility in placement to get it right
>>   most of the time.

>>If you don't tell*that a figure takes up a full page by using the [p]
>>option then I have found that it will almost invariably end up putting that
>>figure and all those that follow at the end of the chapter.

>>If you need more help please don't hesitate to contact me.

> I have a very similar problem which is driving me mad. My supervisor
> wants all figures and tables on non-text pages so I use [p] for all my
> figures and tables. Isn't this what [p] is for, it doesn't mean
> full-page as you say above but place it on a page of floats-only.

> Well, that works fine but for some reason all the floats get emmitted
> together in a string of 5 or so pages towards the end but not at the end
> of the chapter.

> Why the hell is this happening and how do I get it to output the float
> pages at the first page after the float page can be filled?

> --
>   Paul Richards, University of Wales, College Cardiff

Actually I wasn't implying that [p] means a figure takes up a full page, rather
that [p] should be used for a full page figure (or table for that matter).

I'll have to have a bit of a think for your particular problem but here's
something that may help in the interim:

If you have 2 or 3 consecutive figures (tables) which would fit on a page
together then bundle them together in the same figure (table) environment so
that they will float together - it's quite permissible to use the \caption
command more than once within the one figure (table) environment. And if
you try defining the figures a little 'early' as I described above you may
find some of your problems disappear - I have found this to be one of the
most important aspects of float placement.

Regards,
Erica Harris
Meat Industry Research Institute of New Zealand
Hamilton
New Zealand

### Wanted: Help with figure placement!!

>>> I'am trying hard to complete my Ph.D. thesis using the ArborText TeX-package,
>>> but I still have great problems with the placement of the figures.
>>> In one chapter there first comes a figure that is to large for the current page
>>> due to the chapterheading. Using the [htb]-options it is placed one the next
>>> page. So far no problem. But one the same first page there is a second figure
>>> enviroment that will take a hole page. But instead of placing this one on the
>>> third page it is placed at the end of the chapter and so are all other
>>> following figures.
>>> I set \textfraction to 0.0, \topfraction to 1.0 and \bottomfraction to
>>> 1.0.

Are they for sure in preample?

Quote:>>> Okay, I could use a \clearpage or so, but isn't there a more
>>> elegant way to bring figure 2 on the third page. Even if the figure is to
>>> large, why is it placed one the last instead of the following page?
>I have a very similar problem which is driving me mad. My supervisor
>wants all figures and tables on non-text pages so I use [p] for all my
>figures and tables. Isn't this what [p] is for, it doesn't mean
>full-page as you say above but place it on a page of floats-only.

>Well, that works fine but for some reason all the floats get emmitted
>together in a string of 5 or so pages towards the end but not at the end
>of the chapter.

>Why the hell is this happening and how do I get it to output the float
>pages at the first page after the float page can be filled?

Just use the \clearpage command. It is not so un-elegant. And if it is
so what the heck.

--

University of Turku            /     phone     : +358 21 633 5866
sf-20500 Turku              /     "Vapauta itse itsesi. Jos annat sen toisten
Finland                  / teht{v{ksi, sinut orjuutetaan j{lleen." -Hurskas

### Wanted: Help with figure placement!!

I don't want to include all the previous messages that have gone over
the net on this subject as my poster won't post something with more
included lines than new ones!  I too am doing a thesis at the moment,
and have been working on figure placement.  There is basically one
really nice, elegant solution, so I have retained a posting that was
placed over the net some time ago (I retained it to mail those asking
me about figure placement as people were driving me mad with all the
same questions that have been flying around on this thread).

One tweak that I note hasn't been included in this posting below is
the use of [htbp] as opposed to [htb].  Really, [htbp] is probably the
best option to use for a thesis as often it really doesn't matter if
the figures and tables are on separate pages.  You can then play about
with the float-fractions etc to try and get your favourite style.

default for your*file if you want to.  It'll save you from
putting the [htbp] at the end of every figure and table environment.)

Hope this helps the discussion along,

Dave.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Please pass this information to others too
Its a very commonly requested
information...
If U read comp.tex.tex newsgroup on usenet
please post this in response to such questions
as I have obtained the following from people
who occasionally visit comp.text.tex
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>                    \begin{figure}[thb]

>Without the p' option, I would like*to place the figure at the top
>of this page, or at-the-text-position   or at bottom of the page, and

>if all 3 not possible, shouldnt it make 100% sense that teh figure go
>on to the next page ???   Why this neuclear chain reaction kind of a thing
>that causes one problem-with-placing-ONE-figure' to push every other
>following figure to the end of the chapter 100 pages away ??

This is explained' in the*manual, but many people get confused.

But first, if _all_3_not_possible_ then what makes sense is for*
to hold on until you change the parameters that make it impossible!
...which is what it is trying to do!

In a style I just made, "totalnumber" starts as 0, so there can
be *no* floats on the first page of the article.  Thus,*holds
any figures until "totalnumber" is increased (by \maketitle).

Now, to the problem at hand.  [thb] means put it here, or at the top or
bottom of some page (this page or any following page)... BUT subject
to certain formatting parameters (like topnumber above).
Explanation of these parameters can be found by looking in the*
manual's index for "float" ("float placement"?).  The important ones
for this problem must be:

\topfraction, \bottomfraction, \textfraction and \floatpagefraction

Try
\renewcommand{\topfraction}{.8}
\renewcommand{\bottomfraction}{.8}
\renewcommand{\textfraction}{.2}
\renewcommand{\floatpagefraction}{.8}

... or even .99 !

(Note: \floatpagefraction should not be greater than \topfraction or
\bottomfraction because you might get a float in-between those sizes
that can't fit anywhere--chain reaction again!)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

~Date: Fri, 14 May 93 09:43:43 +0100

: I have been using the \begin{figure} for about 2yrs now.  And I am close to
: nervous breakdown.  It can happen any minute now, and so I plead with
: one and all to ignore any crazy stuff that I might possibly type
: anytime now...

:                       \begin{figure}[thb]

: Without the p' option, I would like*to place the figure at the top
: of this page, or at-the-text-position   or at bottom of the page, and
: if all 3 not possible, shouldnt it make 100% sense that teh figure go
: on to the next page ???   Why this neuclear chain reaction kind of a thing
: that causes one `problem-with-placing-ONE-figure' to push every other
: following figure to the end of the chapter 100 pages away ??
[Lots of stuff deleted...sorry, but bandwidth is bandwidth;-)]

OK I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that I can solve
this problem(possibly). Try the following in your preamble:

\renewcommand{\floatpagefraction}{0.95}
\renewcommand{\topfraction}{0.95}
\renewcommand{\bottomfraction}{0.95}
\renewcommand{\textfraction}{0.05}

See section C.8.1 of the*book for descriptions of these commands.
Then remove the resrtriction on figure placement at the start of each
figure, ie the [thb] part. This will mean that

a) any float which is less than 95% of the page will appear interleaved
with text on the page.

b) any float which is more than 95% of the page will make a new page
for itself, immediately after the page on which the text in which the
figure was defined is printed. If you've ever seen a page with 95%
float and 5% text I'm sure you'll agree that it doesn't look too hot,
and so a new page for the float is probably acceptable.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Conor.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

~Date: Thu, 13 May 93 16:27:37 EDT

~Subject: Re: ... \begin{figure}[] enhancements ...

Try playing with these parameters.

\setcounter   {topnumber}{3}
\renewcommand {\topfraction}{0.8}
\setcounter   {totalnumber}{4}
\renewcommand {\textfraction}{0.2}
\renewcommand {\floatpagefraction}{0.7}

(the defaults are

\setcounter{topnumber}{2}
\def\topfraction{.7}
\setcounter{bottomnumber}{1}
\def\bottomfraction{.3}
\setcounter{totalnumber}{3}
\def\textfraction{.2}
\def\floatpagefraction{.5}
\setcounter{dbltopnumber}{2}
\def\dbltopfraction{.7}
\def\dblfloatpagefraction{.5}

)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

--

---------------------------------------------------------------------

### Wanted: Help with figure placement!!

[..]
I have a very similar problem which is driving me mad. My supervisor
wants all figures and tables on non-text pages so I use [p] for all my
figures and tables. Isn't this what [p] is for, it doesn't mean
full-page as you say above but place it on a page of floats-only.

Yes, but only if the figure/table has a height of at least
\floatpagefraction * \textheight.  If a figure is smaller and is only
allowed to be placed on a float page,*waits until the next
figure(s) fill a possible float page.

Well, that works fine but for some reason all the floats get emmitted
together in a string of 5 or so pages towards the end but not at the end
of the chapter.

Why the hell is this happening and how do I get it to output the float
pages at the first page after the float page can be filled?

Play around with \floatpagefraction, e.g. set it to a smaller value
(if a float page with atmost 2/3 empty space is ok):

\renewcommand{\floatpagefraction}{.33}  % article.sty sets it to .5

-bernd

I'm in the very last part of my thesis (must be done by thursday)
you can, any questions!

I'm using LaTeX2e with TeX 3.14t3 (I know, a bit too old) with
packages latexsym, makeidx, xlatin1, epsfig, subfigure, natbib,
and some local stuff ripped out of utthesis (mostly to set
margins and get the right title page).

The problems are (sorted on priority for me):

Problem 1:  Footnotes in tables or captions of figures are
nowhere to be seen.  Do I have to do anything special for
footnotes in tables and figures?

Problem 2:  The vertical spacing between the rows of tables
(tabular environment) is just so that the top and bottom of the
text (inside parboxes) overlaps the rule I've inserted between
the rows -- is this really default or have some of the style
files I've included done something bogus?  Anyways, I want to
have larger spacing.

Problem 3:  How do I get certain figures to be printed only on
the odd or even page?

Bye,
--

<http://www.cs.uit.no/~bjoerns/>