Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Post by noozman20 » Sat, 17 Nov 2001 00:42:15



I figured since someone killed the original,  (I wonder who?) I would
repost
it again for the sake of the hapless soul that thinks that kde is
simple
to install or update from rpms or by compiling.

Unless you have a very large amount of free time don't bother.
But if you're a hobbyist and want to tinker then linux and especially
kde is the way to go.  You can burn up hours of your time, resolving
dependencies that are unresolvable.  You can attempt to compile code
that can't be compiled until you spend hours mucking around with
libxslt or libxml2 or what ever else is broken. So hobby on!!

But if you want to get work done look elsewhere.  

I like linux and I like kde but I don't like spending extreme amounts
of time
to get them to work.  

For those that laugh this off as BS:  You just are in denial
of the reality of the current situation.  

From - Thu Nov 15 07:27:45 2001
From: noozman2...@yahoo.com (noozman2002)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x.kde
Subject: compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare,  redhat and kde updating ==
nightmare
Date: 6 Nov 2001 12:37:57 -0800
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I first tried to use the un-official rpms to upgrade to kde2.2.1 but
gave
up after the cluster-f*** of lame dependency issues.  A dependency on
mp3???
I gave up soon after trying to get that working.   Then I decided to
try compiling
it myself.  Forget the intructions ar kde.org, they're incomplete and
if you ask
10 people what to do you get 10 different answers.   I would bet that
microsoft
loves to see the linux community fractured and factionalized.  
Everyone has
the best idea.  Ours is better than theirs. Nana-nana-nana-nah.
What bullshit.  I would say the number one thing that should be worked
out
is to create some sort of dependency database online that could be
used
automatically to resolve dependency issues for the desktop/server
user.
The current state of getting up to date with current, purportedly,
stable versions
of kde is a farse.   I hear that it is easier on some flavors of
linux.  So if it
comes down to finger pointing.  e.g. you have redhat? well talk to
them
about it, it's not kde's problem, finger pointing doesn't do anyone
any
good.  I like kde, I like kmail and konqueror, yes they are rough
around the edges
but it seems to me that for kde to succeed the folks working on kde
should
realise that adoption of kde is paramount to its success.

So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work
done
and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and
factionalized.  I guess
I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as the
hobby-OS.
From - Thu Nov 15 07:28:18 2001
From: noozman2...@yahoo.com (noozman2002)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x.kde
Subject: compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare,  redhat and kde updating ==
nightmare
Date: 6 Nov 2001 12:37:57 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
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20:37:57 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups-ab...@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Nov 2001 20:37:57 GMT
Xref: newshub1.rdc1.sfba.home.com comp.windows.x.kde:30287

I first tried to use the un-official rpms to upgrade to kde2.2.1 but
gave
up after the cluster-f*** of lame dependency issues.  A dependency on
mp3???
I gave up soon after trying to get that working.   Then I decided to
try compiling
it myself.  Forget the intructions ar kde.org, they're incomplete and
if you ask
10 people what to do you get 10 different answers.   I would bet that
microsoft
loves to see the linux community fractured and factionalized.  
Everyone has
the best idea.  Ours is better than theirs. Nana-nana-nana-nah.
What bullshit.  I would say the number one thing that should be worked
out
is to create some sort of dependency database online that could be
used
automatically to resolve dependency issues for the desktop/server
user.
The current state of getting up to date with current, purportedly,
stable versions
of kde is a farse.   I hear that it is easier on some flavors of
linux.  So if it
comes down to finger pointing.  e.g. you have redhat? well talk to
them
about it, it's not kde's problem, finger pointing doesn't do anyone
any
good.  I like kde, I like kmail and konqueror, yes they are rough
around the edges
but it seems to me that for kde to succeed the folks working on kde
should
realise that adoption of kde is paramount to its success.

So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work
done
and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and
factionalized.  I guess
I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as the
hobby-OS.
From - Thu Nov 15 07:28:18 2001
From: CxVx <c.vanflete...@pandora.be>
Subject: Re: compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare,  redhat and kde updating
== nightmare
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x.kde
Reply-To: c.vanflete...@pandora.be
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Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 21:15:31 GMT
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noozman2002 wrote:
> I first tried to use the un-official rpms to upgrade to kde2.2.1 but gave
> up after the cluster-f*** of lame dependency issues.  A dependency on
> mp3???
> I gave up soon after trying to get that working.   Then I decided to try
> compiling
> it myself.  Forget the intructions ar kde.org, they're incomplete and if
> you ask
> 10 people what to do you get 10 different answers.   I would bet that
> microsoft
> loves to see the linux community fractured and factionalized.   Everyone
> has
> the best idea.  Ours is better than theirs. Nana-nana-nana-nah.
> What bullshit.  I would say the number one thing that should be worked out
> is to create some sort of dependency database online that could be used
> automatically to resolve dependency issues for the desktop/server user.
> The current state of getting up to date with current, purportedly, stable
> versions
> of kde is a farse.   I hear that it is easier on some flavors of linux.
> So if it
> comes down to finger pointing.  e.g. you have redhat? well talk to them
> about it, it's not kde's problem, finger pointing doesn't do anyone any
> good.  I like kde, I like kmail and konqueror, yes they are rough around
> the edges but it seems to me that for kde to succeed the folks working on
> kde should realise that adoption of kde is paramount to its success.

> So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work
> done
> and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and factionalized.
> I guess I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as the
> hobby-OS.

I compiled KDE following the tip from linuxfromscratch:
http://hints.linuxfromscratch.org/hints/kde.txt
It's not heard if you follow the instructions carefully.
I'm just having a minor problem with the antialiasing (wath the thread
started by me)but if it would work for you, please let me know.
From - Thu Nov 15 07:28:18 2001
Message-ID: <3BE8AC2C.83488...@acm.org>
From: James Richard Tyrer <tyr...@acm.org>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.13 i586)
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Subject: Re: compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare,  redhat and kde updating
==
 nightmare
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noozman2002 wrote:

> I first tried to use the un-official rpms to upgrade to kde2.2.1 but gave
> up after the cluster-f*** of lame dependency issues.

If you want a fully functioning system, you *do* need to install that
stuff.

> A dependency on mp3???

Well, Noatun will play MP3 files and it *does* need an MP3 decoder to
do
so.

You can use some discretion here.  If you aren't going to play MP3s
you
don't need it.  If you don't want to switch to CUPS, you don't need
it.
ETC.

> I gave up soon after trying to get that working.   Then I decided to try
> compiling it myself.  Forget the intructions at kde.org, they're incomplete

These instructions assume that you have compiled something from source
before.  If you need basic instructions on how to compile from source
you should look at a newbie site.

> and if you ask 10 people what to do you get 10 different answers.

Actually, there is only one answer.  You need to install all of the
needed support packages and if from binary (RPMs) then you also need
the
corresponding 'devel' packages.

Then you can expect to have some problems that you will need to
resolve
before the build is successful.

- Show quoted text -

> I would bet that

...

read more »

 
 
 

Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Post by Rex Diete » Sat, 17 Nov 2001 00:55:34



Quote:> I figured since someone killed the original,  (I wonder who?) I would
> repost
> it again for the sake of the hapless soul that thinks that kde is
> simple to install or update from rpms or by compiling.

> Unless you have a very large amount of free time don't bother.

And I will repost my responses to these claims:
1.  Yes, it is hard to compile by hand.
2.  RPMS aren't that hard, if you need hand-holding, either
    a.  Goto my site, http://www.math.unl.edu/~rdieter/ and get the
kde-2.2.1 installer script I've made.  It should sort out most dependancy
issues.  I'm using this to push KDE-2.2.1 to about 50 linux machines here.
    b.  Get a distribution that includes KDE 2.2.1 (unfortunately, I know of
none... I would recommend redhat 7.2, but for some reason included only KDE
2.2).

--
Rex Dieter
Computer System Administrator
Department of Mathematics and Statistics
University of Nebraska Lincoln

 
 
 

Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Post by Lee J. Moor » Sat, 17 Nov 2001 01:21:26


Hi Rex Dieter!  On Thursday 15 Nov 2001 3:55 pm, in article

[..]

Quote:>> Unless you have a very large amount of free time don't bother.

> And I will repost my responses to these claims:
> 1.  Yes, it is hard to compile by hand.
> 2.  RPMS aren't that hard, if you need hand-holding, either
>     a.  Goto my site, http://www.math.unl.edu/~rdieter/ and get the
> kde-2.2.1 installer script I've made.  It should sort out most dependancy
> issues.  I'm using this to push KDE-2.2.1 to about 50 linux machines here.
>     b.  Get a distribution that includes KDE 2.2.1 (unfortunately, I know
>     of
> none... I would recommend redhat 7.2, but for some reason included only
> KDE 2.2).

I think it was a troll. "Anybody who disagrees with me is in denial"
suggests a troll of the highest order. In fact, it's quite an ironic
statement. ;)

We're just shifting all the desktop users at work from MS Windows to KDE
2.2-11 which comes with RH7.2.  In the past three weeks, the only problems
we've had are, "where is the icon for this," "how do I open my Excel
document in KSpread," etc.  Not a single telephone call has been made to
the Red Hat support team.

Yes, we're being brave and trying people out on KOffice instead of
StarOffice (which was recommended for training reasons).  So
far so good though.

I've always been a bit of a Gnomite but have just shifted over to KDE at
home because Nautilus has made it a very high maintenance environment.  I'm
very impressed with this KDE, certainly compared to the one that shipped
with RH7.1.  I've even dropped Mutt (at home) in favour of KMail.  This is
pretty incredible considering my previous attitude towards GUI MUA's.  Mutt
+ Procmail for filtering were the only way until now.

I'd only anticipate problems with KDE (or most WM's actually) if I was
compiling it from the source myself or installing the latest builds from
CVS.

...so, to balance the discussion - keep up the good work! ;)

Regards
--
Lee J. Moore   ICQ 42252330

GnuPG/PGP Key 0xD851CB1D

 
 
 

Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Post by Rex Diete » Sat, 17 Nov 2001 01:44:16




> Hi Rex Dieter!  On Thursday 15 Nov 2001 3:55 pm, in article

> We're just shifting all the desktop users at work from MS Windows to KDE
> 2.2-11 which comes with RH7.2.  In the past three weeks, the only problems
> we've had are, "where is the icon for this," "how do I open my Excel
> document in KSpread," etc.  Not a single telephone call has been made to
> the Red Hat support team.

Thanks for posting your positive experiences with KDE.  You're braver than
I...shifting from MS to KDE (we use both Win2k + Linux).  For me, I'm
waiting to do the department-wide update (for our linux users) from the
current KDE 2.1.2 to 2.2.1 until the end of our academic semester.

--
Rex Dieter
Computer System Administrator
Department of Mathematics and Statistics
University of Nebraska Lincoln

 
 
 

Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Post by Ingo Strauc » Sat, 17 Nov 2001 03:55:52


Hi!



> Unless you have a very large amount of free time don't bother.
> But if you're a hobbyist and want to tinker then linux and especially
> kde is the way to go.  You can burn up hours of your time, resolving
> dependencies that are unresolvable.  You can attempt to compile code
> that can't be compiled until you spend hours mucking around with
> libxslt or libxml2 or what ever else is broken. So hobby on!!

Ok, my experiences... I have done several RPM updates of my KDE
installation and I never got into trouble of not having a usable desktop
environment.

Maybe this also depends on the distro you use. It's SuSE in my case...

The hardest thing is maybe sorting out what you do *not* need. This
should get rid of a lot dependencies.

I normally put all RPMs I *need* to one directory and do

  rpm -Uhv *.rpm

If it complains that a package is missing, I go to the SuSE ftp server
and download this package to the same directory and try again. So far
this loop always had an end ;-)

And just yesterday I installed a lot of the newest multimedia stuff
available for linux. This involved compiling of all those packages and
a lot of subsequent downloading before all prerequisits were met.
Yes, it took quite some time (mostly spent for compiling), but it
was worth it.

You just have to procede systematically and be willing to look at
the configure options and INSTALL files.
And if a libbla.so is missing while a libbla.so.1 is there, just
create the symlink. No magic here... ;-)

Cheers,
Ingo

 
 
 

Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Post by noozman20 » Mon, 19 Nov 2001 00:34:09



> Hi!



> > Unless you have a very large amount of free time don't bother.
> > But if you're a hobbyist and want to tinker then linux and especially
> > kde is the way to go.  You can burn up hours of your time, resolving
> > dependencies that are unresolvable.  You can attempt to compile code
> > that can't be compiled until you spend hours mucking around with
> > libxslt or libxml2 or what ever else is broken. So hobby on!!

> Ok, my experiences... I have done several RPM updates of my KDE
> installation and I never got into trouble of not having a usable desktop
> environment.

> Maybe this also depends on the distro you use. It's SuSE in my case...

> The hardest thing is maybe sorting out what you do *not* need. This
> should get rid of a lot dependencies.

> I normally put all RPMs I *need* to one directory and do

>   rpm -Uhv *.rpm

> If it complains that a package is missing, I go to the SuSE ftp server
> and download this package to the same directory and try again. So far
> this loop always had an end ;-)

> And just yesterday I installed a lot of the newest multimedia stuff
> available for linux. This involved compiling of all those packages and
> a lot of subsequent downloading before all prerequisits were met.
> Yes, it took quite some time (mostly spent for compiling), but it
> was worth it.

> You just have to procede systematically and be willing to look at
> the configure options and INSTALL files.
> And if a libbla.so is missing while a libbla.so.1 is there, just
> create the symlink. No magic here... ;-)

Thanks for solidifying my point.  Linux is a hobby OS and you are
clearly a hobbyist.  I'm sure there are lots of people that disagree with me
but the facts speak for themselves.   compiling downloading-compiling-downloading.
The real problem I think is that no one wants to do the meat-and-potatoes
programming that's needed.  Most would much rather work on KDE3 instead
of dealing with that "dirty" business of making the fundamental things that exist
work reliably and consistenly.
 
 
 

Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Post by James Richard Tyre » Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:30:32



> I figured since someone killed the original,  (I wonder who?) I would
> repost it again for the sake of the hapless soul that thinks that kde is
> simple to install or update from rpms or by compiling.

> Unless you have a very large amount of free time don't bother.
> But if you're a hobbyist and want to tinker then linux and especially
> kde is the way to go.  You can burn up hours of your time, resolving
> dependencies that are unresolvable.  You can attempt to compile code
> that can't be compiled until you spend hours mucking around with
> libxslt or libxml2 or what ever else is broken. So hobby on!!

> But if you want to get work done look elsewhere.

> I like linux and I like kde but I don't like spending extreme amounts
> of time
> to get them to work.

> For those that laugh this off as BS:  You just are in denial
> of the reality of the current situation.

I have heard rumors that people employed by MicroSoft are posting such
messages on various news groups and sending similar letters to the
editor of various computer magazines.

I have built both KDE 2.2.1 and 2.2.2 pre? from source.  Therefore, the
code can be compiled.  I did need to install about a dozen new packages
to do it.  But, then, no problem at all.

The RPMs for most distributions do require that you upgrade your system
first.  That is the hard part.  After you upgrade the system, installing
KDE is simple.

I assume that your remarks are disingenuous -- But, if you actually
can't get it installed, you need to realize that this is the bleeding
edge.  It isn't for everyone.  What is for everyone is a boxed distro
with KDE 2.2.2 on its CDs.  You will probably need to wait a month of
two for that.  

Although I do understand that if you have Red Hat 7.2 installed (comes
with 2.2) that you can download the 2.2.1 RPMs and they will install
with no problem.

JRT

 
 
 

Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Post by James Richard Tyre » Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:39:48




> > Hi!



> > > Unless you have a very large amount of free time don't bother.
> > > But if you're a hobbyist and want to tinker then linux and especially
> > > kde is the way to go.  You can burn up hours of your time, resolving
> > > dependencies that are unresolvable.  You can attempt to compile code
> > > that can't be compiled until you spend hours mucking around with
> > > libxslt or libxml2 or what ever else is broken. So hobby on!!

> > Ok, my experiences... I have done several RPM updates of my KDE
> > installation and I never got into trouble of not having a usable desktop
> > environment.

> > Maybe this also depends on the distro you use. It's SuSE in my case...

> > The hardest thing is maybe sorting out what you do *not* need. This
> > should get rid of a lot dependencies.

> > I normally put all RPMs I *need* to one directory and do

> >   rpm -Uhv *.rpm

> > If it complains that a package is missing, I go to the SuSE ftp server
> > and download this package to the same directory and try again. So far
> > this loop always had an end ;-)

> > And just yesterday I installed a lot of the newest multimedia stuff
> > available for linux. This involved compiling of all those packages and
> > a lot of subsequent downloading before all prerequisits were met.
> > Yes, it took quite some time (mostly spent for compiling), but it
> > was worth it.

> > You just have to procede systematically and be willing to look at
> > the configure options and INSTALL files.
> > And if a libbla.so is missing while a libbla.so.1 is there, just
> > create the symlink. No magic here... ;-)

> Thanks for solidifying my point.  Linux is a hobby OS and you are
> clearly a hobbyist.  

No, even with your complaints, it would also be an OS for any business
large enough that it had a resident UNIX expert.

This does unfortunately leave out individuals that do not have the
technical expertise to install it themselves.  But actually, it just
leaves you/them waiting till they can buy a boxed distribution with KDE
2.2.1 or 2.2.2 on its CDs.

I find your rantings to be disingenuous.  But, if you actually want to
install it, please post your specific problems and someone will probably
try to help you.

JRT

 
 
 

Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Post by noozman20 » Tue, 20 Nov 2001 03:00:00





> > > Hi!



> > > > Unless you have a very large amount of free time don't bother.
> > > > But if you're a hobbyist and want to tinker then linux and especially
> > > > kde is the way to go.  You can burn up hours of your time, resolving
> > > > dependencies that are unresolvable.  You can attempt to compile code
> > > > that can't be compiled until you spend hours mucking around with
> > > > libxslt or libxml2 or what ever else is broken. So hobby on!!

> > > Ok, my experiences... I have done several RPM updates of my KDE
> > > installation and I never got into trouble of not having a usable desktop
> > > environment.

> > > Maybe this also depends on the distro you use. It's SuSE in my case...

> > > The hardest thing is maybe sorting out what you do *not* need. This
> > > should get rid of a lot dependencies.

> > > I normally put all RPMs I *need* to one directory and do

> > >   rpm -Uhv *.rpm

> > > If it complains that a package is missing, I go to the SuSE ftp server
> > > and download this package to the same directory and try again. So far
> > > this loop always had an end ;-)

> > > And just yesterday I installed a lot of the newest multimedia stuff
> > > available for linux. This involved compiling of all those packages and
> > > a lot of subsequent downloading before all prerequisits were met.
> > > Yes, it took quite some time (mostly spent for compiling), but it
> > > was worth it.

> > > You just have to procede systematically and be willing to look at
> > > the configure options and INSTALL files.
> > > And if a libbla.so is missing while a libbla.so.1 is there, just
> > > create the symlink. No magic here... ;-)

> > Thanks for solidifying my point.  Linux is a hobby OS and you are
> > clearly a hobbyist.  

> No, even with your complaints, it would also be an OS for any business
> large enough that it had a resident UNIX expert.

Yes if I was getting paid to configure my system I guess I wouldn't complain
as much.  Job security I suppose.

But not all the people posting with problems are getting paid, some are.

Actually if I had to choose an OS for a company desktop right now, I might look hard
at MacOS X.

Quote:

> This does unfortunately leave out individuals that do not have the
> technical expertise to install it themselves.  But actually, it just
> leaves you/them waiting till they can buy a boxed distribution with KDE
> 2.2.1 or 2.2.2 on its CDs.

Which is it, wating or expertise?  In both cases you're really
saying that one must posess some spare time to get it going or wait
for another release.
Expertise is not the problem for a user, downloading and compiling can be automated.
But if the bits won't compile then the "experts" haven't done their work
well.  

I will likely wait longer, it has a long way to go.

Quote:

> I find your rantings to be disingenuous.  But, if you actually want to
> install it, please post your specific problems and someone will probably
> try to help you.

Ironic that you would use the word "disingenuous" since you are truly
the one without candor.  I can understand you defending kde but candor
is what KDE needs to remain vital and to be a contender instead of an also-ran.

I am not going to waste any more of my time on getting it "installed".  I'll wait
until it has matured a bit more and try again later.

And I'll say it again I hope KDE survives.  I like it but I have work to do
and don't have the time to configure the OS.

 
 
 

Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Post by noozman20 » Tue, 20 Nov 2001 03:13:23




> > I figured since someone killed the original,  (I wonder who?) I would
> > repost it again for the sake of the hapless soul that thinks that kde is
> > simple to install or update from rpms or by compiling.

> > Unless you have a very large amount of free time don't bother.
> > But if you're a hobbyist and want to tinker then linux and especially
> > kde is the way to go.  You can burn up hours of your time, resolving
> > dependencies that are unresolvable.  You can attempt to compile code
> > that can't be compiled until you spend hours mucking around with
> > libxslt or libxml2 or what ever else is broken. So hobby on!!

> > But if you want to get work done look elsewhere.

> > I like linux and I like kde but I don't like spending extreme amounts
> > of time
> > to get them to work.

> > For those that laugh this off as BS:  You just are in denial
> > of the reality of the current situation.

> I have heard rumors that people employed by MicroSoft are posting such
> messages on various news groups and sending similar letters to the
> editor of various computer magazines.

What is the source of the rumors?  
M$ doesn't need to do anything like this.  The linux community is doing
it to themselves well enough.   Lots of code written for disparate projects
that wither on the vine. Multiple projects that essentially do the same thing.
Etc., etc., etc.   If the linux comunnity could get more of their energy
into fewer projects those projects would be more robust, more reliable,
perform better and more consistently.  Then M$ might get worried.
They certainly aren't worried now.  Why would they be?

Quote:

> I have built both KDE 2.2.1 and 2.2.2 pre? from source.  Therefore, the
> code can be compiled.  I did need to install about a dozen new packages
> to do it.  But, then, no problem at all.

But look in just this newsgroup and you'll see that people are having problems.
Now look in the other lists at kde.org elsewhere and you will find that
there are lots of steps, lots of problems and code from lots of different
places.

Quote:

> The RPMs for most distributions do require that you upgrade your system
> first.  That is the hard part.  After you upgrade the system, installing
> KDE is simple.

> I assume that your remarks are disingenuous -- But, if you actually

It's ironic since you lack candor, not I.   This group is lacking
some candor.  Evidence of that can be seen by the kill'ing of my original
post.  That seems more like a tactic of M$ to quash someones voice.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:> can't get it installed, you need to realize that this is the bleeding
> edge.  It isn't for everyone.  What is for everyone is a boxed distro
> with KDE 2.2.2 on its CDs.  You will probably need to wait a month of
> two for that.  

> Although I do understand that if you have Red Hat 7.2 installed (comes
> with 2.2) that you can download the 2.2.1 RPMs and they will install
> with no problem.

 
 
 

Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Post by James Richard Tyre » Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:00:56



> > I have heard rumors that people employed by MicroSoft are posting such
> > messages on various news groups and sending similar letters to the
> > editor of various computer magazines.

> What is the source of the rumors?
> M$ doesn't need to do anything like this.  The linux community is doing
> it to themselves well enough.   Lots of code written for disparate projects
> that wither on the vine. Multiple projects that essentially do the same thing.
> Etc., etc., etc.   If the linux comunnity could get more of their energy
> into fewer projects those projects would be more robust, more reliable,
> perform better and more consistently.  Then M$ might get worried.
> They certainly aren't worried now.  Why would they be?

This is really just a joke, but Gates is paranoid and he is running
scared when it comes to UNIX and Linux.

Quote:

> > I have built both KDE 2.2.1 and 2.2.2 pre? from source.  Therefore, the
> > code can be compiled.  I did need to install about a dozen new packages
> > to do it.  But, then, no problem at all.

> But look in just this newsgroup and you'll see that people are having  
> problems.  Now look in the other lists at kde.org elsewhere and you will find
> that there are lots of steps, lots of problems and code from lots of different
> places.

The major problem that I have seen is people trying to install the
KDE-2.2.1 RPMs for Red Hat 7.2 on Red Hat 7.1 and not understanding that
they first need to upgrade to 7.2.

Quote:

> > The RPMs for most distributions do require that you upgrade your system
> > first.  That is the hard part.  After you upgrade the system, installing
> > KDE is simple.

> > I assume that your remarks are disingenuous -- But, if you actually

> It's ironic since you lack candor, not I.  

I would say that I am being objective.  I understand the exact nature of
the problems people have been having.  You do NOT and your postings are
indicative of this.

Quote:> This group is lacking
> some candor.  Evidence of that can be seen by the kill'ing of my original
> post.  

Strange -- I still have them on EarthLink.

Quote:> That seems more like a tactic of M$ to quash someones voice.

However, reading in-between the lines of your latest postings indicates
that you do have some inkling of the problem with KDE 2.2.1.  To run it,
you need to install a whole lot of stuff.  Which is what I have been
saying.  This does not mean that there is something wrong with their
code.  It does not mean that it "won't compile".  

I have compiled the code and it works fine.

I fully realize that installing this load of stuff is somewhat of a
pain, but there isn't really any other way.

And you are certainly correct that installing the latest version is
something for hobbyists (or IT professionals).  Others should look
elsewhere -- a step back from the bleeding edge.

JRT

 
 
 

Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Post by James Richard Tyre » Tue, 20 Nov 2001 14:15:01



> Actually if I had to choose an OS for a company desktop right now, I might
> look hard at MacOS X.

Actually KDE (and GNOME) are not operating systems.  They are desktops
which will run on most versions of UNIX including Linux and MacOS-X

Quote:

> > This does unfortunately leave out individuals that do not have the
> > technical expertise to install it themselves.  But actually, it just
> > leaves you/them waiting till they can buy a boxed distribution with KDE
> > 2.2.1 or 2.2.2 on its CDs.

> Which is it, wating or expertise?  In both cases you're really
> saying that one must posess some spare time to get it going or wait
> for another release.

Exactly, if you are not a hobbyist or IT professional you should wait
till you can get a boxed release.

Quote:> Expertise is not the problem for a user, downloading and compiling can be  
> automated.
> But if the bits won't compile then the "experts" haven't done their work
> well.

But, the bits do compile.  It just isn't simple.
Quote:

> I will likely wait longer, it has a long way to go.

This makes no sense.  You just need to wait for a boxed distribution
containing KDE 2.2.1.  Or, you could install Red Hat 7.2 and upgrade
from 2.2 to 2.2.1

Quote:> > I find your rantings to be disingenuous.  But, if you actually want to
> > install it, please post your specific problems and someone will probably
> > try to help you.

> Ironic that you would use the word "disingenuous" since you are truly
> the one without candor.  I can understand you defending kde but candor
> is what KDE needs to remain vital and to be a contender instead of an
> also-ran.

> I am not going to waste any more of my time on getting it "installed".  I'll
> wait until it has matured a bit more and try again later.

Again, this makes no sense.  Requiring a long list of supporting
libraries has nothing to do with maturing.  This appears to be your
actual complaint.  What would you suggest that they do about it?

Quote:

> And I'll say it again I hope KDE survives.  I like it but I have work to do
> and don't have the time to configure the OS.

If you don't have the time to upgrade your OS one piece at a time, you
should wait for a boxed distro.  Don't you get it??

You can't expect to download the latest bleeding edge release and have
it install itself.

Did you try the RPM port of APT-Get like I suggested.  Perhaps this
would make upgrading your OS simple enough.

JRT

 
 
 

Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Post by noozman20 » Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:51:11




> > Actually if I had to choose an OS for a company desktop right now, I might
> > look hard at MacOS X.

> Actually KDE (and GNOME) are not operating systems.  They are desktops
> which will run on most versions of UNIX including Linux and MacOS-X

You're thinking too small here.  Need to think big, if you can, it's not easy.
Desktop is a generic term in this sense that means the market space
of a single desktop-type user. e.g. an IT person might say "I support
500 desktops"

Quote:

> > > This does unfortunately leave out individuals that do not have the
> > > technical expertise to install it themselves.  But actually, it just
> > > leaves you/them waiting till they can buy a boxed distribution with KDE
> > > 2.2.1 or 2.2.2 on its CDs.

> > Which is it, wating or expertise?  In both cases you're really
> > saying that one must posess some spare time to get it going or wait
> > for another release.

> Exactly, if you are not a hobbyist or IT professional you should wait
> till you can get a boxed release.

You brought boxed releases into this, but I contend they are not mature
either.  My point is there is a trailing and leading bleeding-edge.
The middle is really not good either.   So I will come back when
things have matured a bit.   Stability, reliability, etc., etc.

Quote:

> > Expertise is not the problem for a user, downloading and compiling can be  
> > automated.

> > But if the bits won't compile then the "experts" haven't done their work
> > well.

> But, the bits do compile.  It just isn't simple.

They simply don't compile in lots of cases.   Why anyone would want to
spend the time fixing someone else's build problems escapes me....

Quote:

> > I will likely wait longer, it has a long way to go.

> This makes no sense.  You just need to wait for a boxed distribution
> containing KDE 2.2.1.  Or, you could install Red Hat 7.2 and upgrade
> from 2.2 to 2.2.1

It makes sense.  I will try in another 6 months or year and see what
the state-of-the-art is then.

Quote:

> > > I find your rantings to be disingenuous.  But, if you actually want to
> > > install it, please post your specific problems and someone will probably
> > > try to help you.

> > Ironic that you would use the word "disingenuous" since you are truly
> > the one without candor.  I can understand you defending kde but candor
> > is what KDE needs to remain vital and to be a contender instead of an
> > also-ran.

> > I am not going to waste any more of my time on getting it "installed".  I'll
> > wait until it has matured a bit more and try again later.

> Again, this makes no sense.  Requiring a long list of supporting
> libraries has nothing to do with maturing.  This appears to be your
> actual complaint.  What would you suggest that they do about it?

You've missed the point again.   Maturity is about code that firstly, builds.
Then it also has to be stable and reliable.  Performance and whizzy features
come next.

Quote:

> > And I'll say it again I hope KDE survives.  I like it but I have work to do
> > and don't have the time to configure the OS.

> If you don't have the time to upgrade your OS one piece at a time, you
> should wait for a boxed distro.  Don't you get it??

You think too small, a "boxed distro" doesn't change the underlying code
much.   Put a tuxedo on a pig,  it's still a pig.  (no offense to pigs)

Quote:

> You can't expect to download the latest bleeding edge release and have
> it install itself.

2.2.1 is bleeding edge?  It fixes some really broken stuff.  Which edge is bleeding?

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> Did you try the RPM port of APT-Get like I suggested.  Perhaps this
> would make upgrading your OS simple enough.

> JRT

 
 
 

Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Post by noozman20 » Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:58:30




> > > I have heard rumors that people employed by MicroSoft are posting such
> > > messages on various news groups and sending similar letters to the
> > > editor of various computer magazines.

> > What is the source of the rumors?
> > M$ doesn't need to do anything like this.  The linux community is doing
> > it to themselves well enough.   Lots of code written for disparate projects
> > that wither on the vine. Multiple projects that essentially do the same thing.
> > Etc., etc., etc.   If the linux comunnity could get more of their energy
> > into fewer projects those projects would be more robust, more reliable,
> > perform better and more consistently.  Then M$ might get worried.
> > They certainly aren't worried now.  Why would they be?

> This is really just a joke, but Gates is paranoid and he is running
> scared when it comes to UNIX and Linux.

You wish he was running scared.   He looks on in amu*t.
But he's not scared.  You think the unix/linux community scares
a man/company that can sway the Justice Dept.?    The joke is on you.
You're view is too small.

Quote:

> > > I have built both KDE 2.2.1 and 2.2.2 pre? from source.  Therefore, the
> > > code can be compiled.  I did need to install about a dozen new packages
> > > to do it.  But, then, no problem at all.

> > But look in just this newsgroup and you'll see that people are having  
> > problems.  Now look in the other lists at kde.org elsewhere and you will find
> > that there are lots of steps, lots of problems and code from lots of different
> > places.

> The major problem that I have seen is people trying to install the
> KDE-2.2.1 RPMs for Red Hat 7.2 on Red Hat 7.1 and not understanding that
> they first need to upgrade to 7.2.

Why are they having that problem at all?  Lack of info perhaps?

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> > > The RPMs for most distributions do require that you upgrade your system
> > > first.  That is the hard part.  After you upgrade the system, installing
> > > KDE is simple.

> > > I assume that your remarks are disingenuous -- But, if you actually

> > It's ironic since you lack candor, not I.  

> I would say that I am being objective.  I understand the exact nature of
> the problems people have been having.  You do NOT and your postings are
> indicative of this.

> > This group is lacking
> > some candor.  Evidence of that can be seen by the kill'ing of my original
> > post.  

> Strange -- I still have them on EarthLink.

> > That seems more like a tactic of M$ to quash someones voice.

> However, reading in-between the lines of your latest postings indicates
> that you do have some inkling of the problem with KDE 2.2.1.  To run it,
> you need to install a whole lot of stuff.  Which is what I have been
> saying.  This does not mean that there is something wrong with their
> code.  It does not mean that it "won't compile".  

> I have compiled the code and it works fine.

And how much time did you waste?  You probably have lots
of free time to fiddle about.

I will come back and visit linux some time in the future after
it's grown up a bit more.  Got to get back to work now....

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> I fully realize that installing this load of stuff is somewhat of a
> pain, but there isn't really any other way.

> And you are certainly correct that installing the latest version is
> something for hobbyists (or IT professionals).  Others should look
> elsewhere -- a step back from the bleeding edge.

> JRT

 
 
 

Was -- ("compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare")

Post by James Richard Tyre » Fri, 23 Nov 2001 03:58:52




> > I have compiled the code and it works fine.

> And how much time did you waste?  

I didn't waste any time compiling it.  I had to download a dozen or so
new packages, but I don't consider that to be a waste either.

Quote:> You probably have lots of free time to fiddle about.

Fiddling is not required.  But, doing is.  If you don't know how to do
something, then learn.  Don't just waste your time fiddling about; it
doesn't solve anything.

Quote:> I will come back and visit linux some time in the future after
> it's grown up a bit more.  Got to get back to work now....

Very sorry that you just don't get it.  UNIX/Linux doesn't need to "grow
up a bit more".  This is the way it is.  If you don't have expertise,
and have no desire to develop it, then you should stick to buying boxed
sets of Linux.  If you want to download the latest stuff and try it --
this is what hobbyists do.

If you are having a specific problem, post it.  Otherwise please quit
carping about it.  

I.E. put up or shut up.

JRT

 
 
 

1. compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare

I first tried to use the un-official rpms to upgrade to kde2.2.1 but gave
up after the cluster-f*** of lame dependency issues.  A dependency on mp3???
I gave up soon after trying to get that working.   Then I decided to try compiling
it myself.  Forget the intructions ar kde.org, they're incomplete and if you ask
10 people what to do you get 10 different answers.   I would bet that microsoft
loves to see the linux community fractured and factionalized.   Everyone has
the best idea.  Ours is better than theirs. Nana-nana-nana-nah.
What bullshit.  I would say the number one thing that should be worked out
is to create some sort of dependency database online that could be used
automatically to resolve dependency issues for the desktop/server user.
The current state of getting up to date with current, purportedly, stable versions
of kde is a farse.   I hear that it is easier on some flavors of linux.  So if it
comes down to finger pointing.  e.g. you have redhat? well talk to them
about it, it's not kde's problem, finger pointing doesn't do anyone any
good.  I like kde, I like kmail and konqueror, yes they are rough around the edges
but it seems to me that for kde to succeed the folks working on kde should
realise that adoption of kde is paramount to its success.  

So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work done
and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and factionalized.  I guess
I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as the hobby-OS.

2. Linux/DOS HELP!!!!

3. Type "(", ")" and "{", "}" in X...

4. Ultra 5 cdrom to back headset plug??

5. A "No route to host" nightmare.

6. FreeBSD n00b question

7. KDM on Kde2.2.1 without "go to console" :-(

8. Hey, where's lint ?

9. GETSERVBYNAME()????????????????????"""""""""""""

10. """"""""My SoundBlast 16 pnp isn't up yet""""""""""""

11. where can I ftp "metaconfig" (generator of "Configure")?

12. Definition of "word" in zsh (e.g., "backward-kill-word")

13. pccardd[49]: No card in database for "(null)"("(null)")