Very Computer

So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work done
and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and factionalized.  I guess
I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as the hobby-OS.

Quote:> A dependency on mp3???

You can use some discretion here.  If you aren't going to play MP3s you
don't need it.  If you don't want to switch to CUPS, you don't need it.
ETC.

Quote:> I gave up soon after trying to get that working.   Then I decided to try
> compiling it myself.  Forget the intructions at kde.org, they're incomplete

Quote:> and if you ask 10 people what to do you get 10 different answers.  

Then you can expect to have some problems that you will need to resolve
before the build is successful.

Quote:> I would bet that microsoft loves to see the linux community fractured and
> factionalized.   Everyone has the best idea.  Ours is better than theirs.
> Nana-nana-nana-nah.  What bullshit.  I would say the number one thing that  
> should be worked out is to create some sort of dependency database online that
> could be used automatically to resolve dependency issues for the
> desktop/server user.
> The current state of getting up to date with current, purportedly, stable
> versions of kde is a farse.   I hear that it is easier on some flavors of
> linux.  So if it comes down to finger pointing.  e.g. you have redhat? well
> talk to them  about it, it's not kde's problem, finger pointing doesn't do
> anyone any good.  I like kde, I like kmail and konqueror, yes they are rough
> around the edges but it seems to me that for kde to succeed the folks working
> on kde should realise that adoption of kde is paramount to its success.

> So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work done
> and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and factionalized.  I
> guess I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as the
> hobby-OS.

It is true that the README files that come with the source code is
outdated and inaccurate.  It would certainly help if it included a list
of all packages that are needed to build the package.

But you do not understand the problem with binary RPMs.  Many of the
dependencies for RPMs are not determined by the source that it was built
from, they are determined by the builder.  So, there is no way that KDE
can tell you which packages you will need to install an RPM.  Therefore,
the database you propose would not be possible.  And, in any case, the
RPMs include a list of what they require, but you perceive this as a
problem.  This list is the list of packages that it was built with and
you need them.

There is also the UNIX syndrome which you may mistake for
factionalization.  UNIX programs are usually dependent on a whole bunch
of stuff.  You need to install this stuff -- that is just the way it is.

JRT

what's the problem?

Quote:> I guess I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as the
> hobby-OS.

Quote:

> > A dependency on mp3???

> Well, Noatun will play MP3 files and it *does* need an MP3 decoder to do
> so.

> You can use some discretion here.  If you aren't going to play MP3s you
> don't need it.  If you don't want to switch to CUPS, you don't need it.
> ETC.

Quote:

> > I gave up soon after trying to get that working.   Then I decided to try
> > compiling it myself.  Forget the intructions at kde.org, they're incomplete

> These instructions assume that you have compiled something from source
> before.  If you need basic instructions on how to compile from source
> you should look at a newbie site.

Quote:

> > and if you ask 10 people what to do you get 10 different answers.  

> Actually, there is only one answer.  You need to install all of the
> needed support packages and if from binary (RPMs) then you also need the
> corresponding 'devel' packages.

Quote:

> Then you can expect to have some problems that you will need to resolve
> before the build is successful.

> > I would bet that microsoft loves to see the linux community fractured and
> > factionalized.   Everyone has the best idea.  Ours is better than theirs.
> > Nana-nana-nana-nah.  What bullshit.  I would say the number one thing that  
> > should be worked out is to create some sort of dependency database online that
> > could be used automatically to resolve dependency issues for the
> > desktop/server user.

> > The current state of getting up to date with current, purportedly, stable
> > versions of kde is a farse.   I hear that it is easier on some flavors of
> > linux.  So if it comes down to finger pointing.  e.g. you have redhat? well
> > talk to them  about it, it's not kde's problem, finger pointing doesn't do
> > anyone any good.  I like kde, I like kmail and konqueror, yes they are rough
> > around the edges but it seems to me that for kde to succeed the folks working
> > on kde should realise that adoption of kde is paramount to its success.

> > So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work done
> > and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and factionalized.  I
> > guess I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as the
> > hobby-OS.

> Your suggestions indicate that you do not understand the problem.

Quote:

> It is true that the README files that come with the source code is
> outdated and inaccurate.  It would certainly help if it included a list
> of all packages that are needed to build the package.

> But you do not understand the problem with binary RPMs.  Many of the
> dependencies for RPMs are not determined by the source that it was built
> from, they are determined by the builder.  So, there is no way that KDE
> can tell you which packages you will need to install an RPM.  Therefore,
> the database you propose would not be possible.  And, in any case, the
> RPMs include a list of what they require, but you perceive this as a
> problem.  This list is the list of packages that it was built with and
> you need them.

Instead of the razzle-dazzle the kde (actually all linux programmers) should
be making it stable.  They should be working on the fundamentals of the software
instead of adding new features.

Quote:

> There is also the UNIX syndrome which you may mistake for
> factionalization.  UNIX programs are usually dependent on a whole bunch
> of stuff.  You need to install this stuff -- that is just the way it is.

I installed QT 2.3 but kde libs is still reporting that I need QT >=2.2.2

I'm still fault finding .. how do I check the system QT version?

.. That's my problem.

Billy

Quote:

> > I guess I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as the
> > hobby-OS.

> No, its Windows that is the hobby OS. I spend half my work time trying to
> get perfectly good Linux/AIX apps to run on NT/2000 with its half assed
> sockets and semi-compliant POSIX implementation. And rebooting it....

Linux is wasting your time, isn't it?  My point exactly, thanks for
re-affirming it for me.

Thanks Billy

Quote:

> I'm still fault finding .. how do I check the system QT version?

> .. That's my problem.

        echo $QTDIR

and {as root or su -]:

        ldconfig -v | grep qt

is what you need to do to troubleshoot the problem.

JRT

I say the same thing, but expect to install a whole bunch of stuff in
step #2.

JRT

Quote:

> > > A dependency on mp3???

> > Well, Noatun will play MP3 files and it *does* need an MP3 decoder to do
> > so.

> > You can use some discretion here.  If you aren't going to play MP3s you
> > don't need it.  If you don't want to switch to CUPS, you don't need it.
> > ETC.

> A dependency on mp3?

Quote:

> > > I gave up soon after trying to get that working.   Then I decided to try
> > > compiling it myself.  Forget the intructions at kde.org, they're
> > > incomplete

> > These instructions assume that you have compiled something from source
> > before.  If you need basic instructions on how to compile from source
> > you should look at a newbie site.

> Wrong again.  I've compiled lots of stuff.

As, I said, a list of what I needed would have helped, but that was the
only issue.

Quote:

> > > and if you ask 10 people what to do you get 10 different answers.

> > Actually, there is only one answer.  You need to install all of the
> > needed support packages and if from binary (RPMs) then you also need the
> > corresponding 'devel' packages.

> There definitely is not only one answer.   If there was we wouldn't be here.

Note to make this clearer, I said install 'all needed support packages'.
Some packages are optional (not 'needed') and you can decide if you want
to install them.

Quote:

> > Then you can expect to have some problems that you will need to resolve
> > before the build is successful.

> > > I would bet that microsoft loves to see the linux community fractured and
> > > factionalized.   Everyone has the best idea.  Ours is better than theirs.
> > > Nana-nana-nana-nah.  What bullshit.  I would say the number one thing that
> > > should be worked out is to create some sort of dependency database online
> > > that could be used automatically to resolve dependency issues for the
> > > desktop/server user.

Quote:> > Your suggestions indicate that you do not understand the problem.

> I understand part of the problem. Factions.

Quote:

> > It is true that the README files that come with the source code is
> > outdated and inaccurate.  It would certainly help if it included a list
> > of all packages that are needed to build the package.

> > But you do not understand the problem with binary RPMs.  Many of the
> > dependencies for RPMs are not determined by the source that it was built
> > from, they are determined by the builder.  So, there is no way that KDE
> > can tell you which packages you will need to install an RPM.  Therefore,
> > the database you propose would not be possible.  And, in any case, the
> > RPMs include a list of what they require, but you perceive this as a
> > problem.  This list is the list of packages that it was built with and
> > you need them.

> I don't understand the problem completely but that doesn't mean it can't be
> solved.  You really don't understand the issues if you think that it's just a
> simple matter of getting the right RPMS and then everything will be fine.

Quote:> You're either naive or your understanding of the problem is very incomplete.

Quote:

> Instead of the razzle-dazzle the kde (actually all linux programmers) should
> be making it stable.  They should be working on the fundamentals of the
> software instead of adding new features.

Quote:

> > There is also the UNIX syndrome which you may mistake for
> > factionalization.  UNIX programs are usually dependent on a whole bunch
> > of stuff.  You need to install this stuff -- that is just the way it is.

> Wrong again. If you think that the linux community is not factionalized
> then that shows you're entrenched and a part of the problem.

Perhaps you have a point.  But, you have not clearly stated it.  You
appear to think that the installation problems which you are having have
causes other than actual ones, and that installation can be simplified
in
ways which are impossible to implement.

JRT

jpegsrc.v6b             www.ijg.org
libpng-1.2.0            www.libpng.org
tiff-v3.5.5             www.libtiff.org
libmng-1.0.3            www.libmng.com
qt-x11-2.3.1            www.trolltech.com //they're at 2.3.2 now
pcre-3.4                www.pcre.org
audiofile-0.2.2                 dreamscape.68k.org/~michael/audiofile
libxml2-2.4.5           xmlsoft.org
lcms-1.0.7              www.littlecms.com
kdelibs-2.2.1           www.kde.org
kdebase-2.2.1
kdeaddons-2.2.1
kdeadmin-2.2.1
kdeartwork-2.2.1
kdegames-2.2.1
kdegraphics-2.2.1
kdemultimedia-2.2.1
kdenetwork-2.2.1
kdepim-2.2.1
kdeutils-2.2.1

objprelink.c            www.research.att.com/~leonb/objprelink
//not really necessary but kde is a lot faster if you use this

//optional but it's better to install these too.
libao-0.8               www.vorbis.com
libogg-1.0rc2           www.vorbis.com
libvorbis-1.0rc2                www.vorbis.com
lame3.89beta            www.mp3dev.org/mp3
cdparanoia-III-alpha9.8 www.xiph.org/paranoia
openssl-0.9.6b          www.openssl.org
Lesstif-0.93.14         www.lesstif.org

and then there's stuff like cups,...