compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare

compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare

Post by noozman20 » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 05:37:57



I first tried to use the un-official rpms to upgrade to kde2.2.1 but gave
up after the cluster-f*** of lame dependency issues.  A dependency on mp3???
I gave up soon after trying to get that working.   Then I decided to try compiling
it myself.  Forget the intructions ar kde.org, they're incomplete and if you ask
10 people what to do you get 10 different answers.   I would bet that microsoft
loves to see the linux community fractured and factionalized.   Everyone has
the best idea.  Ours is better than theirs. Nana-nana-nana-nah.
What bullshit.  I would say the number one thing that should be worked out
is to create some sort of dependency database online that could be used
automatically to resolve dependency issues for the desktop/server user.
The current state of getting up to date with current, purportedly, stable versions
of kde is a farse.   I hear that it is easier on some flavors of linux.  So if it
comes down to finger pointing.  e.g. you have redhat? well talk to them
about it, it's not kde's problem, finger pointing doesn't do anyone any
good.  I like kde, I like kmail and konqueror, yes they are rough around the edges
but it seems to me that for kde to succeed the folks working on kde should
realise that adoption of kde is paramount to its success.  

So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work done
and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and factionalized.  I guess
I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as the hobby-OS.

 
 
 

compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare

Post by CxVx » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 06:15:31



> I first tried to use the un-official rpms to upgrade to kde2.2.1 but gave
> up after the cluster-f*** of lame dependency issues.  A dependency on
> mp3???
> I gave up soon after trying to get that working.   Then I decided to try
> compiling
> it myself.  Forget the intructions ar kde.org, they're incomplete and if
> you ask
> 10 people what to do you get 10 different answers.   I would bet that
> microsoft
> loves to see the linux community fractured and factionalized.   Everyone
> has
> the best idea.  Ours is better than theirs. Nana-nana-nana-nah.
> What bullshit.  I would say the number one thing that should be worked out
> is to create some sort of dependency database online that could be used
> automatically to resolve dependency issues for the desktop/server user.
> The current state of getting up to date with current, purportedly, stable
> versions
> of kde is a farse.   I hear that it is easier on some flavors of linux.
> So if it
> comes down to finger pointing.  e.g. you have redhat? well talk to them
> about it, it's not kde's problem, finger pointing doesn't do anyone any
> good.  I like kde, I like kmail and konqueror, yes they are rough around
> the edges but it seems to me that for kde to succeed the folks working on
> kde should realise that adoption of kde is paramount to its success.

> So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work
> done
> and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and factionalized.
> I guess I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as the
> hobby-OS.

I compiled KDE following the tip from linuxfromscratch:
http://hints.linuxfromscratch.org/hints/kde.txt
It's not heard if you follow the instructions carefully.
I'm just having a minor problem with the antialiasing (wath the thread
started by me)but if it would work for you, please let me know.

 
 
 

compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare

Post by James Richard Tyre » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 12:36:16



> I first tried to use the un-official rpms to upgrade to kde2.2.1 but gave
> up after the cluster-f*** of lame dependency issues.  

If you want a fully functioning system, you *do* need to install that
stuff.

Quote:> A dependency on mp3???

Well, Noatun will play MP3 files and it *does* need an MP3 decoder to do
so.

You can use some discretion here.  If you aren't going to play MP3s you
don't need it.  If you don't want to switch to CUPS, you don't need it.
ETC.

Quote:> I gave up soon after trying to get that working.   Then I decided to try
> compiling it myself.  Forget the intructions at kde.org, they're incomplete

These instructions assume that you have compiled something from source
before.  If you need basic instructions on how to compile from source
you should look at a newbie site.

Quote:> and if you ask 10 people what to do you get 10 different answers.  

Actually, there is only one answer.  You need to install all of the
needed support packages and if from binary (RPMs) then you also need the
corresponding 'devel' packages.

Then you can expect to have some problems that you will need to resolve
before the build is successful.

Quote:> I would bet that microsoft loves to see the linux community fractured and
> factionalized.   Everyone has the best idea.  Ours is better than theirs.
> Nana-nana-nana-nah.  What bullshit.  I would say the number one thing that  
> should be worked out is to create some sort of dependency database online that
> could be used automatically to resolve dependency issues for the
> desktop/server user.
> The current state of getting up to date with current, purportedly, stable
> versions of kde is a farse.   I hear that it is easier on some flavors of
> linux.  So if it comes down to finger pointing.  e.g. you have redhat? well
> talk to them  about it, it's not kde's problem, finger pointing doesn't do
> anyone any good.  I like kde, I like kmail and konqueror, yes they are rough
> around the edges but it seems to me that for kde to succeed the folks working
> on kde should realise that adoption of kde is paramount to its success.

> So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work done
> and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and factionalized.  I
> guess I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as the
> hobby-OS.

Your suggestions indicate that you do not understand the problem.

It is true that the README files that come with the source code is
outdated and inaccurate.  It would certainly help if it included a list
of all packages that are needed to build the package.

But you do not understand the problem with binary RPMs.  Many of the
dependencies for RPMs are not determined by the source that it was built
from, they are determined by the builder.  So, there is no way that KDE
can tell you which packages you will need to install an RPM.  Therefore,
the database you propose would not be possible.  And, in any case, the
RPMs include a list of what they require, but you perceive this as a
problem.  This list is the list of packages that it was built with and
you need them.

There is also the UNIX syndrome which you may mistake for
factionalization.  UNIX programs are usually dependent on a whole bunch
of stuff.  You need to install this stuff -- that is just the way it is.

JRT

 
 
 

compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare

Post by bowma » Thu, 08 Nov 2001 13:13:22



> So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work
> done and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and
> factionalized.

1. build and install Qt
2. build and install kdelibs. if it is missing any dependencies, it will
   tell you during the configure, and point you to the source tarballs.
3. build and install kdebase
4. add in any of the other packages you want

what's the problem?

Quote:> I guess I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as the
> hobby-OS.

No, its Windows that is the hobby OS. I spend half my work time trying to
get perfectly good Linux/AIX apps to run on NT/2000 with its half assed
sockets and semi-compliant POSIX implementation. And rebooting it....
 
 
 

compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare

Post by noozman20 » Fri, 09 Nov 2001 01:06:39




> > I first tried to use the un-official rpms to upgrade to kde2.2.1 but gave
> > up after the cluster-f*** of lame dependency issues.  

> If you want a fully functioning system, you *do* need to install that
> stuff.

Wrong, if you want a non-functional system, then install that stuff.

Quote:

> > A dependency on mp3???

> Well, Noatun will play MP3 files and it *does* need an MP3 decoder to do
> so.

> You can use some discretion here.  If you aren't going to play MP3s you
> don't need it.  If you don't want to switch to CUPS, you don't need it.
> ETC.

A dependency on mp3?

Quote:

> > I gave up soon after trying to get that working.   Then I decided to try
> > compiling it myself.  Forget the intructions at kde.org, they're incomplete

> These instructions assume that you have compiled something from source
> before.  If you need basic instructions on how to compile from source
> you should look at a newbie site.

Wrong again.  I've compiled lots of stuff.

Quote:

> > and if you ask 10 people what to do you get 10 different answers.  

> Actually, there is only one answer.  You need to install all of the
> needed support packages and if from binary (RPMs) then you also need the
> corresponding 'devel' packages.

There definitely is not only one answer.   If there was we wouldn't be here.

Quote:

> Then you can expect to have some problems that you will need to resolve
> before the build is successful.

> > I would bet that microsoft loves to see the linux community fractured and
> > factionalized.   Everyone has the best idea.  Ours is better than theirs.
> > Nana-nana-nana-nah.  What bullshit.  I would say the number one thing that  
> > should be worked out is to create some sort of dependency database online that
> > could be used automatically to resolve dependency issues for the
> > desktop/server user.

> > The current state of getting up to date with current, purportedly, stable
> > versions of kde is a farse.   I hear that it is easier on some flavors of
> > linux.  So if it comes down to finger pointing.  e.g. you have redhat? well
> > talk to them  about it, it's not kde's problem, finger pointing doesn't do
> > anyone any good.  I like kde, I like kmail and konqueror, yes they are rough
> > around the edges but it seems to me that for kde to succeed the folks working
> > on kde should realise that adoption of kde is paramount to its success.

> > So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work done
> > and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and factionalized.  I
> > guess I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as the
> > hobby-OS.

> Your suggestions indicate that you do not understand the problem.

I understand part of the problem. Factions.

Quote:

> It is true that the README files that come with the source code is
> outdated and inaccurate.  It would certainly help if it included a list
> of all packages that are needed to build the package.

> But you do not understand the problem with binary RPMs.  Many of the
> dependencies for RPMs are not determined by the source that it was built
> from, they are determined by the builder.  So, there is no way that KDE
> can tell you which packages you will need to install an RPM.  Therefore,
> the database you propose would not be possible.  And, in any case, the
> RPMs include a list of what they require, but you perceive this as a
> problem.  This list is the list of packages that it was built with and
> you need them.

I don't understand the problem completely but that doesn't mean it can't be solved.
You really don't understand the issues if you think that it's just a simple
matter of getting the right RPMS and then everything will be fine.
You're either naive or your understanding of the problem is very incomplete.

Instead of the razzle-dazzle the kde (actually all linux programmers) should
be making it stable.  They should be working on the fundamentals of the software
instead of adding new features.

Quote:

> There is also the UNIX syndrome which you may mistake for
> factionalization.  UNIX programs are usually dependent on a whole bunch
> of stuff.  You need to install this stuff -- that is just the way it is.

Wrong again. If you think that the linux community is not factionalized
then that shows you're entrenched and a part of the problem.
 
 
 

compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare

Post by William Bucknal » Fri, 09 Nov 2001 01:07:33




> > So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work
> > done and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and
> > factionalized.

> 1. build and install Qt
> 2. build and install kdelibs. if it is missing any dependencies, it will
>    tell you during the configure, and point you to the source tarballs.
> 3. build and install kdebase
> 4. add in any of the other packages you want

> what's the problem?

> > I guess I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as
> > the hobby-OS.

> No, its Windows that is the hobby OS. I spend half my work time trying to
> get perfectly good Linux/AIX apps to run on NT/2000 with its half assed
> sockets and semi-compliant POSIX implementation. And rebooting it....

I'm on 2. build and install kdelibs

I installed QT 2.3 but kde libs is still reporting that I need QT >=2.2.2

I'm still fault finding .. how do I check the system QT version?

.. That's my problem.

Billy

 
 
 

compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare

Post by noozman20 » Fri, 09 Nov 2001 01:11:28




> > So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work
> > done and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and
> > factionalized.

> 1. build and install Qt
> 2. build and install kdelibs. if it is missing any dependencies, it will
>    tell you during the configure, and point you to the source tarballs.
> 3. build and install kdebase
> 4. add in any of the other packages you want

> what's the problem?

The words of someone that is in denial.  

Quote:

> > I guess I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as the
> > hobby-OS.

> No, its Windows that is the hobby OS. I spend half my work time trying to
> get perfectly good Linux/AIX apps to run on NT/2000 with its half assed
> sockets and semi-compliant POSIX implementation. And rebooting it....

Windows is the desktop, I wish that I could use linux on the desktop
productively but I cannot.

Linux is wasting your time, isn't it?  My point exactly, thanks for
re-affirming it for me.

 
 
 

compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare

Post by William Bucknal » Fri, 09 Nov 2001 08:45:21


My mistake I followed the readme too closely and renamed /usr/local/qt
not /usr/lib/qt

Thanks Billy




>>>So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work
>>>done and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and
>>>factionalized.

>>1. build and install Qt
>>2. build and install kdelibs. if it is missing any dependencies, it will
>>   tell you during the configure, and point you to the source tarballs.
>>3. build and install kdebase
>>4. add in any of the other packages you want

>>what's the problem?

>>>I guess I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as
>>>the hobby-OS.

>>No, its Windows that is the hobby OS. I spend half my work time trying to
>>get perfectly good Linux/AIX apps to run on NT/2000 with its half assed
>>sockets and semi-compliant POSIX implementation. And rebooting it....

> I'm on 2. build and install kdelibs

> I installed QT 2.3 but kde libs is still reporting that I need QT >=2.2.2

> I'm still fault finding .. how do I check the system QT version?

> .. That's my problem.

> Billy

 
 
 

compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare

Post by James Richard Tyre » Fri, 09 Nov 2001 10:12:11





> > > So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work
> > > done and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and
> > > factionalized.

> > 1. build and install Qt
> > 2. build and install kdelibs. if it is missing any dependencies, it will
> >    tell you during the configure, and point you to the source tarballs.
> > 3. build and install kdebase
> > 4. add in any of the other packages you want

> > what's the problem?

> > > I guess I'll do what most people do and have a dual-boot with linux as
> > > the hobby-OS.

> > No, its Windows that is the hobby OS. I spend half my work time trying to
> > get perfectly good Linux/AIX apps to run on NT/2000 with its half assed
> > sockets and semi-compliant POSIX implementation. And rebooting it....

> I'm on 2. build and install kdelibs

> I installed QT 2.3 but kde libs is still reporting that I need QT >=2.2.2

Do you mean that configure reported this as an error?

Quote:

> I'm still fault finding .. how do I check the system QT version?

> .. That's my problem.

Not exactly what you asked, but:

        echo $QTDIR

and {as root or su -]:

        ldconfig -v | grep qt

is what you need to do to troubleshoot the problem.

JRT

 
 
 

compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare

Post by James Richard Tyre » Fri, 09 Nov 2001 10:16:39





> > > So where do I go now?  I may go back to windows so I can get some work
> > > done and not have to waste time because linux is fractured and
> > > factionalized.

> > 1. build and install Qt
> > 2. build and install kdelibs. if it is missing any dependencies, it will
> >    tell you during the configure, and point you to the source tarballs.
> > 3. build and install kdebase
> > 4. add in any of the other packages you want

> > what's the problem?

> The words of someone that is in denial.

NO, these are the words of someone that did it.

I say the same thing, but expect to install a whole bunch of stuff in
step #2.

JRT

 
 
 

compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare

Post by James Richard Tyre » Fri, 09 Nov 2001 14:26:53





> > > I first tried to use the un-official rpms to upgrade to kde2.2.1 but gave
> > > up after the cluster-f*** of lame dependency issues.

> > If you want a fully functioning system, you *do* need to install that
> > stuff.

> Wrong, if you want a non-functional system, then install that stuff.

Could you please explain this bizarre assertion?

Quote:

> > > A dependency on mp3???

> > Well, Noatun will play MP3 files and it *does* need an MP3 decoder to do
> > so.

> > You can use some discretion here.  If you aren't going to play MP3s you
> > don't need it.  If you don't want to switch to CUPS, you don't need it.
> > ETC.

> A dependency on mp3?

Well, lets see, by "mp3" I presume that you mean: "libmp3lame.so.0".
What is your point?  If you want to play MP3 files, then you DO need to
install this.
Quote:

> > > I gave up soon after trying to get that working.   Then I decided to try
> > > compiling it myself.  Forget the intructions at kde.org, they're
> > > incomplete

> > These instructions assume that you have compiled something from source
> > before.  If you need basic instructions on how to compile from source
> > you should look at a newbie site.

> Wrong again.  I've compiled lots of stuff.

So what was the problem?  I compiled it all from source.  I had to
install some stuff (actually quite a bit of stuff) to have everything
functional, but I had no real problems.

As, I said, a list of what I needed would have helped, but that was the
only issue.

Quote:

> > > and if you ask 10 people what to do you get 10 different answers.

> > Actually, there is only one answer.  You need to install all of the
> > needed support packages and if from binary (RPMs) then you also need the
> > corresponding 'devel' packages.

> There definitely is not only one answer.   If there was we wouldn't be here.

People can tell you otherwise, but this is just BS.

Note to make this clearer, I said install 'all needed support packages'.
Some packages are optional (not 'needed') and you can decide if you want
to install them.

Quote:

> > Then you can expect to have some problems that you will need to resolve
> > before the build is successful.

> > > I would bet that microsoft loves to see the linux community fractured and
> > > factionalized.   Everyone has the best idea.  Ours is better than theirs.
> > > Nana-nana-nana-nah.  What bullshit.  I would say the number one thing that
> > > should be worked out is to create some sort of dependency database online
> > > that could be used automatically to resolve dependency issues for the
> > > desktop/server user.

<SNIP>

Quote:> > Your suggestions indicate that you do not understand the problem.

> I understand part of the problem. Factions.

Enlighten us!  How do factions cause the need to upgrade and install a
lot of packages?

Quote:

> > It is true that the README files that come with the source code is
> > outdated and inaccurate.  It would certainly help if it included a list
> > of all packages that are needed to build the package.

> > But you do not understand the problem with binary RPMs.  Many of the
> > dependencies for RPMs are not determined by the source that it was built
> > from, they are determined by the builder.  So, there is no way that KDE
> > can tell you which packages you will need to install an RPM.  Therefore,
> > the database you propose would not be possible.  And, in any case, the
> > RPMs include a list of what they require, but you perceive this as a
> > problem.  This list is the list of packages that it was built with and
> > you need them.

> I don't understand the problem completely but that doesn't mean it can't be
> solved.  You really don't understand the issues if you think that it's just a
> simple matter of getting the right RPMS and then everything will be fine.

It always worked for me.

Quote:> You're either naive or your understanding of the problem is very incomplete.

OK, what don't I understand?

Quote:

> Instead of the razzle-dazzle the kde (actually all linux programmers) should
> be making it stable.  They should be working on the fundamentals of the
> software instead of adding new features.

That certainly is a valid point, but what does it have to do with the
installation question?

Quote:

> > There is also the UNIX syndrome which you may mistake for
> > factionalization.  UNIX programs are usually dependent on a whole bunch
> > of stuff.  You need to install this stuff -- that is just the way it is.

> Wrong again. If you think that the linux community is not factionalized
> then that shows you're entrenched and a part of the problem.

Your posting is an interesting rant, but what point can be make by
making
statements that are (or appear to be) contrary to fact without any
supporting evidence.

Perhaps you have a point.  But, you have not clearly stated it.  You
appear to think that the installation problems which you are having have
causes other than actual ones, and that installation can be simplified
in
ways which are impossible to implement.

JRT

 
 
 

compiling kde2.2.1 == nightmare, redhat and kde updating == nightmare

Post by CxVx » Fri, 09 Nov 2001 21:13:39


A list of the stuff you need to compile KDE, it sure works for me

jpegsrc.v6b             www.ijg.org
libpng-1.2.0            www.libpng.org
tiff-v3.5.5             www.libtiff.org
libmng-1.0.3            www.libmng.com
qt-x11-2.3.1            www.trolltech.com //they're at 2.3.2 now
pcre-3.4                www.pcre.org
audiofile-0.2.2                 dreamscape.68k.org/~michael/audiofile
libxml2-2.4.5           xmlsoft.org
lcms-1.0.7              www.littlecms.com
kdelibs-2.2.1           www.kde.org
kdebase-2.2.1
kdeaddons-2.2.1
kdeadmin-2.2.1
kdeartwork-2.2.1
kdegames-2.2.1
kdegraphics-2.2.1
kdemultimedia-2.2.1
kdenetwork-2.2.1
kdepim-2.2.1
kdeutils-2.2.1

objprelink.c            www.research.att.com/~leonb/objprelink
//not really necessary but kde is a lot faster if you use this

//optional but it's better to install these too.
libao-0.8               www.vorbis.com
libogg-1.0rc2           www.vorbis.com
libvorbis-1.0rc2                www.vorbis.com
lame3.89beta            www.mp3dev.org/mp3
cdparanoia-III-alpha9.8 www.xiph.org/paranoia
openssl-0.9.6b          www.openssl.org
Lesstif-0.93.14         www.lesstif.org

and then there's stuff like cups,...