KDevelop and Wine, MFC, C++, Wine stability

KDevelop and Wine, MFC, C++, Wine stability

Post by none » Thu, 21 Feb 2002 06:15:49



Pardon the very newbie-type questions;

Is it possible to use KDevelop to compile Wine?

Is it possible to use KDevelop to compile Windows-less native Wine
applications? ie meaning Windows apps that you would compile totally with
the Wine development kit (GCC and the Wine .H and .LIB files)?

Is it possible to use KDevelop (or Wine itself for that matter) to develop
MFC applications under Linux using GCC as a compiler? I suppose I'm asking
if the MFC headers are all there or can be copied over and used by the GCC
compiler. Will the GCC compiler emit the proper name-mangling for C++ code?
Can GCC do C++ code at all?

If a Wine-driven Windows app crashes, can it take down the Linux kernel? I
mean -god forbid- that there would be bugs in the Wine kernel code, how
deeply is this thing plugged into Linux? Deep enough so that a Windows app
could crash everything?

Please don't flame me, as I am rather ignorant and I am only seeking to
understand.

Thank you.

 
 
 

KDevelop and Wine, MFC, C++, Wine stability

Post by Gregory Davi » Thu, 21 Feb 2002 07:44:03



> Pardon the very newbie-type questions;

> Is it possible to use KDevelop to compile Wine?

> Is it possible to use KDevelop to compile Windows-less native Wine
> applications? ie meaning Windows apps that you would compile totally with
> the Wine development kit (GCC and the Wine .H and .LIB files)?

> Is it possible to use KDevelop (or Wine itself for that matter) to develop
> MFC applications under Linux using GCC as a compiler? I suppose I'm asking
> if the MFC headers are all there or can be copied over and used by the GCC
> compiler. Will the GCC compiler emit the proper name-mangling for C++
> code? Can GCC do C++ code at all?

> If a Wine-driven Windows app crashes, can it take down the Linux kernel? I
> mean -god forbid- that there would be bugs in the Wine kernel code, how
> deeply is this thing plugged into Linux? Deep enough so that a Windows app
> could crash everything?

> Please don't flame me, as I am rather ignorant and I am only seeking to
> understand.

> Thank you.

KDevelop is a text based editor that can write in any language you want.  
It is not a compiler, it is an IDE.  GCC is the GNU compiler collection and
it will do C++ if you use its g++ compiler.  Wine (is not an emulator) is
a program that runs and returns either success or failure to the kernel.  
Assuming it cannot lockup a display or hold some essential resource
hostage, it will not crash the kernel.  I don't think Wine has a "kernel"
in the sense that it is not an operating system.  It is, at best, a virtual
machine that mitigates between the kernel and a windows program.  None of
these questions have anything to do with the K Desktop Environment.  They
belong to the Wine newsgroup you cross posted to, and the forum or
mailinglist found at www.kdevelop.org.

Greg

 
 
 

KDevelop and Wine, MFC, C++, Wine stability

Post by none » Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:03:29


Thanks so much for your answer, Gregory.

I looked for a newsgroup that could answer questions for KDevelop, but
judging from your answer, none exists. I will consult the KDevelop mailing
list instead.

Oh well, you may have cleared things up a little anyway, so thank you again.



> > Pardon the very newbie-type questions;

> > Is it possible to use KDevelop to compile Wine?

> > Is it possible to use KDevelop to compile Windows-less native Wine
> > applications? ie meaning Windows apps that you would compile totally
with
> > the Wine development kit (GCC and the Wine .H and .LIB files)?

> > Is it possible to use KDevelop (or Wine itself for that matter) to
develop
> > MFC applications under Linux using GCC as a compiler? I suppose I'm
asking
> > if the MFC headers are all there or can be copied over and used by the
GCC
> > compiler. Will the GCC compiler emit the proper name-mangling for C++
> > code? Can GCC do C++ code at all?

> > If a Wine-driven Windows app crashes, can it take down the Linux kernel?
I
> > mean -god forbid- that there would be bugs in the Wine kernel code, how
> > deeply is this thing plugged into Linux? Deep enough so that a Windows
app
> > could crash everything?

> > Please don't flame me, as I am rather ignorant and I am only seeking to
> > understand.

> > Thank you.

> KDevelop is a text based editor that can write in any language you want.
> It is not a compiler, it is an IDE.  GCC is the GNU compiler collection
and
> it will do C++ if you use its g++ compiler.  Wine (is not an emulator) is
> a program that runs and returns either success or failure to the kernel.
> Assuming it cannot lockup a display or hold some essential resource
> hostage, it will not crash the kernel.  I don't think Wine has a "kernel"
> in the sense that it is not an operating system.  It is, at best, a
virtual
> machine that mitigates between the kernel and a windows program.  None of
> these questions have anything to do with the K Desktop Environment.  They
> belong to the Wine newsgroup you cross posted to, and the forum or
> mailinglist found at www.kdevelop.org.

> Greg

 
 
 

KDevelop and Wine, MFC, C++, Wine stability

Post by yugam » Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:52:57



> KDevelop is a text based editor that can write in any language you want.
> It is not a compiler, it is an IDE.  GCC is the GNU compiler collection
> and
> it will do C++ if you use its g++ compiler.  Wine (is not an emulator) is
> a program that runs and returns either success or failure to the kernel.
> Assuming it cannot lockup a display or hold some essential resource
> hostage, it will not crash the kernel.  I don't think Wine has a "kernel"
> in the sense that it is not an operating system.  It is, at best, a
> virtual
> machine that mitigates between the kernel and a windows program.  None of
> these questions have anything to do with the K Desktop Environment.  They
> belong to the Wine newsgroup you cross posted to, and the forum or
> mailinglist found at www.kdevelop.org.

I think the best explination for what wine does is its an executable
loader, much like what the kernel does for elf file wine does for PEF
files, it also has a collection of dll's that are the win32 api.

since the license for MFC is a bit odd, you'll have to read it to be sure
if you can link it using other compilers on non MS OS's

 
 
 

KDevelop and Wine, MFC, C++, Wine stability

Post by Jack Portie » Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:25:08



Quote:> Pardon the very newbie-type questions;

> Is it possible to use KDevelop to compile Wine?

> Is it possible to use KDevelop to compile Windows-less native Wine
> applications? ie meaning Windows apps that you would compile totally with
> the Wine development kit (GCC and the Wine .H and .LIB files)?

Sure, if you have the source code and don't use any Windows stuff that Wine
doesn't (yet) implement.

Quote:

> Is it possible to use KDevelop (or Wine itself for that matter) to develop
> MFC applications under Linux using GCC as a compiler? I suppose I'm asking
> if the MFC headers are all there or can be copied over and used by the GCC
> compiler. Will the GCC compiler emit the proper name-mangling for C++
code?
> Can GCC do C++ code at all?

No, I don't think so. But even if you could, you would need a Microsoft
license for Visual C++ (with which MFC is included) so you would be better
off using Visual C++, as it was designed to work with MFC from the ground
up.
 
 
 

KDevelop and Wine, MFC, C++, Wine stability

Post by Ron Ginsber » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 02:29:28


For a very similar cross platform compiler and language to VC++, look at
www.wxwindows.org. The classes are very similar to MFC. I have not used
it, but read through some of the docs and sample source code.

I occasionally use VC++ on W98. The similarities are "striking".




> > Pardon the very newbie-type questions;

> > Is it possible to use KDevelop to compile Wine?

> > Is it possible to use KDevelop to compile Windows-less native Wine
> > applications? ie meaning Windows apps that you would compile totally with
> > the Wine development kit (GCC and the Wine .H and .LIB files)?

> Sure, if you have the source code and don't use any Windows stuff that Wine
> doesn't (yet) implement.

> > Is it possible to use KDevelop (or Wine itself for that matter) to develop
> > MFC applications under Linux using GCC as a compiler? I suppose I'm asking
> > if the MFC headers are all there or can be copied over and used by the GCC
> > compiler. Will the GCC compiler emit the proper name-mangling for C++
> code?
> > Can GCC do C++ code at all?

> No, I don't think so. But even if you could, you would need a Microsoft
> license for Visual C++ (with which MFC is included) so you would be better
> off using Visual C++, as it was designed to work with MFC from the ground
> up.

 
 
 

KDevelop and Wine, MFC, C++, Wine stability

Post by none » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 01:17:52


Thank you Ron Ginsberg, and thank you Jack Portier.

Here's the crux of my problem:

I am developing an application written in MFC.
It also includes some open-source GPL code too.

So far, no problem. The Visual C++ 6.0 development environment's licensing
doesn't forbid me from doing anything except redistributing code written by
Microsoft, which I will not do anyway, because it is a commercial
application I am developing.

My problem arises here:

    Because I am using some of Microsoft's advanced common controls that
normally ship with Internet Explorer 5.x, I have had to download the
Microsoft Platform SDK to "freshen" my header files.

    The constants necessary to use the new controls are in the updated
header files in the MS Platform SDK.

    The hitch is that the (newer) license for the MS Platform SDK seems to
be forbidding me from using open source source code in my application!!!

    I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not absolutely sure if I've understood the
licensing properly, but if that IS the case, I have to completely move my
application development from Microsoft tools to open source tools.

I've included the relevant part of the MS Platform SDK licensing agreement,
if anyone wants to have a go at interpreting it, please do.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--

* Publicly Available Software.   Your license rights to the Redistributable
Components are conditioned upon your not
incorporating into, combining with, or distributing in conjunction with the
Redistributable Components or a derivative work
thereof, or using in the development of a derivative work of the
Redistributable Components, other software which is licensed
pursuant to terms that (a) create, or purport to create, obligations for
Microsoft with respect to the Redistributable
Components or derivative work thereof or (b) grant, or purport to grant, to
any third party any rights or immunities under
Microsoft's intellectual property or proprietary rights in the
Redistributable Components or derivative work thereof.    By way
of example but not limitation of the foregoing, You shall not (a)
incorporate any Publicly Available Software in whole or in
part into any part of a derivative work of the Redistributable Components;
(b) use Publicly Available Software in whole or in
part in the development of any part of a derivative work of the
Redistributable Components in a manner that may subject the
Redistributable Components or derivative work thereof, in whole or in part,
to all or part of the license obligations of any
Publicly Available Software, or (c) combine or distribute the
Redistributable Components or derivative thereof with any
Publicly Available Software.  "Publicly Available Software" means each of
(i) any software that contains, or is derived in any
manner (in whole or in part) from, any software that is distributed as free
software, open source software (e.g. Linux), or
similar licensing or distribution models; and (ii) any software that
requires as a condition of use, modification and/or
distribution of such software that such software or other software
incorporated into, derived from or distributed with such
software be (a) disclosed or distributed in source code form; (b) be
licensed for the purpose of making derivative works; or
(c) be redistributable at no charge.  Publicly Available Software includes,
without limitation, software licensed or
distributed under any of the following licenses or distribution models, or
licenses or distribution models similar to any of
the following: (a) GNU's General Public License (GPL) or Lesser/Library GPL
(LGPL), (b) The Artistic License (e.g., PERL), (c)
the Mozilla Public License, (d) the Netscape Public License, (e) the Sun
Community Source License (SCSL), (f) the Sun Industry
Standards Source License (SISL), and (g) the Apache Server license.

 
 
 

KDevelop and Wine, MFC, C++, Wine stability

Post by Mladen Gogal » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:27:39



> Pardon the very newbie-type questions;

> Is it possible to use KDevelop to compile Wine?

> Is it possible to use KDevelop to compile Windows-less native Wine
> applications? ie meaning Windows apps that you would compile totally with
> the Wine development kit (GCC and the Wine .H and .LIB files)?

> Is it possible to use KDevelop (or Wine itself for that matter) to
> develop MFC applications under Linux using GCC as a compiler? I suppose
> I'm asking if the MFC headers are all there or can be copied over and
> used by the GCC compiler. Will the GCC compiler emit the proper
> name-mangling for C++ code? Can GCC do C++ code at all?

> If a Wine-driven Windows app crashes, can it take down the Linux kernel?
> I mean -god forbid- that there would be bugs in the Wine kernel code, how
> deeply is this thing plugged into Linux? Deep enough so that a Windows
> app could crash everything?

> Please don't flame me, as I am rather ignorant and I am only seeking to
> understand.

> Thank you.

1) Gcc certainly can do C++. It is also more ANSII compliant then VC++.
   Namespaces, STL, safe casts, all the rules about "const", all is there.
2) Wine runs in unprivileged mode, as a normal user and it cannot take
   your machine down. It can hang your screen, though, so that you have to
   get into the machine using some workaround (in my case, it's another PC
   on the same ethernet) and kill the process yourself.
3) I've never been a great fan of Microsoft, so I cannot answer your
   Kdevelop questions, but there is a commercial product which can be
   found at: http://www.bristol.com/windu/index.html
4) Using Microsoft products does bad things to lambs and chicken and might
   bring the anger of unspeakably evil things upon you. It also spoils
   milk.

--
Mladen Gogala

 
 
 

KDevelop and Wine, MFC, C++, Wine stability

Post by yugam » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:47:27




>> Is it possible to use KDevelop (or Wine itself for that matter) to
>> develop MFC applications under Linux using GCC as a compiler? I suppose
>> I'm asking if the MFC headers are all there or can be copied over and
>> used by the GCC compiler. Will the GCC compiler emit the proper
>> name-mangling for C++ code? Can GCC do C++ code at all?

> 1) Gcc certainly can do C++. It is also more ANSII compliant then VC++.
>    Namespaces, STL, safe casts, all the rules about "const", all is there.

not to mention there is no such thing as "proper" name-mangling, part of
the problem w/ inter compiler workings.
 
 
 

KDevelop and Wine, MFC, C++, Wine stability

Post by none » Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:50:35


Mladen,

    Thank you.

    What you wrote is really interesting: The fact that Wine runs as an
unprivileged task is great! Linux might make a better Windows than Windows!

    Thanks again.

 
 
 

1. Wine,wine,wine - I need help with wine

Help
I down loaded and installed Wine to Linux 2.0.22 and Xwindows (XFree).
I think it's installed correctly.  I am getting a 'drive not found/path
not found' error.  I have my wine.conf in the right place (I think).
I'm using Win95 and hda3 and Linux on hda1.  I need a reality check.  Is
it hard to set up Wine?  Does someone have a working wine.conf file that
might guide me to a working wine.   Wine,wine,wine and beer. Ok I'll
stop wineing

Thanks
George

--

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*   -----(((( Every Dog Has His Day ))))-----    *
*       ( to stay on the porch and bark )        *
*                                                *
*                George Dunham                   *
*            "Crappy Computers Ink"              *

*     http://www.sni.net/~gdunham/gdunh.htm      *
*    arf             |\__/\                      *
*        arf arf     / oo \_                     *
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*                arf  \()/   \   )               *
**************************************************

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