MkLinux/LinuxPPC Which one?

MkLinux/LinuxPPC Which one?

Post by David Grup » Wed, 04 Feb 1998 04:00:00



I'm a newbie to Linux and have been lurking in newsgroups for a couple
weeks, and have explored the Faq-O-Matic but am still a little confused
about the what the differences between MkLinux and LinuxPPC.  I think I
know that Mk is based on the Mach microkernal and LinuxPPC is
monolithic??  What does this mean to me in terms of speed, ease of use
and installation, stability, hardware support, etc. etc.

I have a PM G3 so I guess using either version is a moot point right now
but I'm anxious to get it up and running.  My main use will be to
compile and run FORTRAN programs - is one version superior to the other
for this purpose.

thanx

david

 
 
 

MkLinux/LinuxPPC Which one?

Post by Shawn D » Fri, 06 Feb 1998 04:00:00


Hello,

Does anyone know the the exact Boot Device name to use for a PowerMac
G3/233 with IDE drive?

I've installed Linux-Pmac on the IDE drive and the root partitions is #6.
This machine uses Open Firmware v. 2.0f1.  Apparently the old scheme with

If anyone has any leads on this issue, could you please let me know?
Thank you in advance.  Cheers. Bye.

Shawn D.  

 
 
 

MkLinux/LinuxPPC Which one?

Post by Josue Emmanuel Ama » Fri, 06 Feb 1998 04:00:00




> Hello,

> Does anyone know the the exact Boot Device name to use for a PowerMac
> G3/233 with IDE drive?

> I've installed Linux-Pmac on the IDE drive and the root partitions is #6.
> This machine uses Open Firmware v. 2.0f1.  Apparently the old scheme with

> If anyone has any leads on this issue, could you please let me know?
> Thank you in advance.  Cheers. Bye.

> Shawn D.  

You can boot into OF by using cmd-opt-O-F and look at the device tree.  If
you installed linux-ppc you should have enough documentation to do this.

One task that may not be obvious is setting up the screen and kbd devices
and if you need to set some memory for the display.

good luck,

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MkLinux/LinuxPPC Which one?

Post by David Grup » Fri, 06 Feb 1998 04:00:00


First of all I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my questions, but of
course good answers always spawn new questions so here goes.  Is Apples
unwillingness to release the technical specs of the G3 for Linux development a
direct result of the BeOS?  I'm supposeing if they released enough information to
get LinuxPPC up and running it would also be enough info for the Be guys to get
their OS going.  All I can say is I'm a big fan of my Mac but I wish Apple was in
the black enough that they could be a little bit less tight with their product!
I'm craving a little bit better performance but I don't want to go to the dark
side to get it :)


> > I have a PM G3 so I guess using either version is a moot point right now
> > but I'm anxious to get it up and running.

> The upcoming MkLinux release (Real Soon Now, see above) is said to support G3
> Macs. LinuxPPC support will take some time, I believe, as Apple (as usual)
> isn't willing to give out technical specifications. (Apple has gone a long way
> since the Apple II and its excellent reference manuals.)

 
 
 

MkLinux/LinuxPPC Which one?

Post by Wulf Hofbau » Sat, 07 Feb 1998 04:00:00




Quote:> I think I
> know that Mk is based on the Mach microkernal and LinuxPPC is
> monolithic??  What does this mean to me in terms of speed, ease of use
> and installation, stability, hardware support, etc. etc.

I haven't tried both versions side by side, but I think LinuxPPC is much
faster than MkLinux. Especially disk I/O sucks in MkLinux (extremely slow,
I can read data from the hard disk at quad speed CD ROM rates).
I've also got the impression that the LinuxPPC people are more dedicated.
MkLinux also is just a Linux emulator on top of Mach and is in some aspects
incompatible with real Linux (scheduling, memory management, driver
architecture).

I'm running MkLinux (because I have a 6100), and stability is quite good,
though there are annoying cosmetical problems. From a users point of view,
both OSs should be equally easy to use. I've helped a friend installing
LinuxpPPC on his machine, and the LinuxPPC installer is MUCH better than
the MkLinux installer though this may change Real Soon Now ("Real Soon Now"
might also mean, according to Apple traditions, never).

Comparing the source code, the MkLinux server as well as Mach are a complete
mess - lots and lots of comemnts of the kind "needs to be fixed", "to do"
etc. Though this may not be a valid argument, it doesn't make me feel good
about the maturity of Mach and the Linux server on top of it.

Quote:> I have a PM G3 so I guess using either version is a moot point right now
> but I'm anxious to get it up and running.

The upcoming MkLinux release (Real Soon Now, see above) is said to support G3
Macs. LinuxPPC support will take some time, I believe, as Apple (as usual)
isn't willing to give out technical specifications. (Apple has gone a long way
since the Apple II and its excellent reference manuals.)

Quote:> My main use will be to
> compile and run FORTRAN programs - is one version superior to the other
> for this purpose.

I guess LinuxPPC should be faster even for processor bound tasks as MkLinux
suffers significant overhead in interrupt/signal handling. Also, the MkLinux
server is a hacked version of the Linux kernel. There is much unneeded code
in it which costs both memory and CPU cycles.

- Wulf

 
 
 

MkLinux/LinuxPPC Which one?

Post by Jerry Quin » Sat, 07 Feb 1998 04:00:00



> First of all I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my questions, but of
> course good answers always spawn new questions so here goes.  Is Apples
> unwillingness to release the technical specs of the G3 for Linux development a
> direct result of the BeOS?  I'm supposeing if they released enough information to
> get LinuxPPC up and running it would also be enough info for the Be guys to get
> their OS going.  All I can say is I'm a big fan of my Mac but I wish Apple was in
> the black enough that they could be a little bit less tight with their product!
> I'm craving a little bit better performance but I don't want to go to the dark
> side to get it :)


> > > I have a PM G3 so I guess using either version is a moot point right now
> > > but I'm anxious to get it up and running.

> > The upcoming MkLinux release (Real Soon Now, see above) is said to support G3
> > Macs. LinuxPPC support will take some time, I believe, as Apple (as usual)

The latest WIP kernel/servers support some G3 machines now.  So that means the
technical info for those machines is now visible.  

--
Jerry Quinn              Tel: (514) 761-8737

Speech Technology Infrastructure

 
 
 

MkLinux/LinuxPPC Which one?

Post by Donn Ca » Sat, 07 Feb 1998 04:00:00


| I haven't tried both versions side by side, but I think LinuxPPC is much
| faster than MkLinux. Especially disk I/O sucks in MkLinux (extremely slow,
| I can read data from the hard disk at quad speed CD ROM rates).

I tried them both on the same computer, a plain 7500, earlier this week.
I can't tell the difference without running benchmarks.  The only serious
bug I've run into is the one whose FAQ title includes ``whoop, whoop'',
and that was the same for both (I have xset -b, so far haven't seen it
come back.) This is with 16 Mb RAM, which means plenty of disk activity.
Neither are screaming fast, but both run compiles etc. at reasonable speed.

I'm using MkLinux right now, mainly because their dual boot approach
suits me better for what I'm doing.  With Linux-pmac you do get a nice
picture of the penguin, though.

Whichever you prefer, it's good for everyone to minimize the sniping.
I've seen things degenerate to a really deplorable level between the
various BSD factions, for example, and that really hurts everyone.
It's truly terrific that Apple and everyone else is doing this work,
and since it comes to us for free, a positive attitude isn't a lot
to ask.  Benchmarks might be in order, if we need to establish that
there's a big speed difference.

        Donn Cave, University Computing Services, University of Washington

 
 
 

MkLinux/LinuxPPC Which one?

Post by anthony to » Sun, 08 Feb 1998 04:00:00



Quote:>I'm using MkLinux right now, mainly because their dual boot approach
>suits me better for what I'm doing.  With Linux-pmac you do get a nice
>picture of the penguin, though.

There are dual-boot approaches to linux-pmac also.

First, there's a simple open firmware boot program available at
dev.linuxppc.org/users/harry/OFmenu.hqx. Defaults to booting macos after
a timeout; can also drop into linux or OF.

Or, I prefer the use of quik. In /etc/quik.conf, i set timeout = 50,
which gives me five seconds of inactivity at the boot prompt before
booting linux. If I want MacOS, I just drop back into OF by typing halt
(I think that this is undocumented..), and typing bye in the OF.

--
anthony tong -> http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~atong

 
 
 

MkLinux/LinuxPPC Which one?

Post by Jerry Quin » Tue, 10 Feb 1998 04:00:00




> >I'm using MkLinux right now, mainly because their dual boot approach
> >suits me better for what I'm doing.  With Linux-pmac you do get a nice
> >picture of the penguin, though.

> There are dual-boot approaches to linux-pmac also.

> First, there's a simple open firmware boot program available at
> dev.linuxppc.org/users/harry/OFmenu.hqx. Defaults to booting macos after
> a timeout; can also drop into linux or OF.

> Or, I prefer the use of quik. In /etc/quik.conf, i set timeout = 50,
> which gives me five seconds of inactivity at the boot prompt before
> booting linux. If I want MacOS, I just drop back into OF by typing halt
> (I think that this is undocumented..), and typing bye in the OF.

How do well do these work on Powercenters with the missing OF video driver?
I've thought about giving linux-pmac a try, but it HAS to be able to go into
MacOS easily or my wife would kill me :-)

--
Jerry Quinn              Tel: (514) 761-8737

Speech Technology Infrastructure

 
 
 

MkLinux/LinuxPPC Which one?

Post by anthony to » Thu, 12 Feb 1998 04:00:00




>> First, there's a simple open firmware boot program available at
>> dev.linuxppc.org/users/harry/OFmenu.hqx. Defaults to booting macos after
>> a timeout; can also drop into linux or OF.

>> Or, I prefer the use of quik. In /etc/quik.conf, i set timeout = 50,
>> which gives me five seconds of inactivity at the boot prompt before
>> booting linux. If I want MacOS, I just drop back into OF by typing halt
>> (I think that this is undocumented..), and typing bye in the OF.

>How do well do these work on Powercenters with the missing OF video driver?
>I've thought about giving linux-pmac a try, but it HAS to be able to go into
>MacOS easily or my wife would kill me :-)

Powercenters are missing an OF video driver? This is the platinum, right??

ouch..

--
anthony tong -> http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~atong

 
 
 

MkLinux/LinuxPPC Which one?

Post by Eric Brueggeman » Thu, 12 Feb 1998 04:00:00




> >>> First, there's a simple open firmware boot program available at
> >>> dev.linuxppc.org/users/harry/OFmenu.hqx. Defaults to booting macos after
> >>> a timeout; can also drop into linux or OF.

> >>> Or, I prefer the use of quik. In /etc/quik.conf, i set timeout = 50,
> >>> which gives me five seconds of inactivity at the boot prompt before
> >>> booting linux. If I want MacOS, I just drop back into OF by typing halt
> >>> (I think that this is undocumented..), and typing bye in the OF.

> >>How do well do these work on Powercenters with the missing OF video driver?
> >>I've thought about giving linux-pmac a try, but it HAS to be able to go into
> >>MacOS easily or my wife would kill me :-)

> >Powercenters are missing an OF video driver? This is the platinum, right??

> >ouch..

> Is he talking about the PCP, which has similar video to the PowerBase?
> I've _never_ been able to get an OF prompt on the console of my PowerBase
> via the internal video (works fine with an IMS-TT, though).

I've managed to get an OF prompt on my PCP 180 using a command that I found
FAQ-O-MATIC as output-device:

/bandit/ATY,mach64_3D_pcc

Eric

 
 
 

MkLinux/LinuxPPC Which one?

Post by Jason » Fri, 13 Feb 1998 04:00:00



>>> First, there's a simple open firmware boot program available at
>>> dev.linuxppc.org/users/harry/OFmenu.hqx. Defaults to booting macos after
>>> a timeout; can also drop into linux or OF.
>>> Or, I prefer the use of quik. In /etc/quik.conf, i set timeout = 50,
>>> which gives me five seconds of inactivity at the boot prompt before
>>> booting linux. If I want MacOS, I just drop back into OF by typing halt
>>> (I think that this is undocumented..), and typing bye in the OF.
>>How do well do these work on Powercenters with the missing OF video driver?
>>I've thought about giving linux-pmac a try, but it HAS to be able to go into
>>MacOS easily or my wife would kill me :-)
>Powercenters are missing an OF video driver? This is the platinum, right??
>ouch..

Is he talking about the PCP, which has similar video to the PowerBase?
I've _never_ been able to get an OF prompt on the console of my PowerBase
via the internal video (works fine with an IMS-TT, though).
 
 
 

MkLinux/LinuxPPC Which one?

Post by Tibor Pau » Thu, 19 Feb 1998 04:00:00



> I guess LinuxPPC should be faster even for processor bound tasks as MkLinux
> suffers significant overhead in interrupt/signal handling. Also, the MkLinux
> server is a hacked version of the Linux kernel. There is much unneeded code
> in it which costs both memory and CPU cycles.

Linux has some performance problems threading and SMP support. I am
highly interested in benchmarks comparing MkLinux and Linux on SMP
computers. Yet, only the MkLinux Kernel supports SMP on PowerMacs, but
there is an Intel release of MkLinux.
 
 
 

1. MkLinux/LinuxPPC and C++ member templates?

can anyone tell me if/when gnu C++ as released with any of the Linux-for-PPC
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thanks.
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