Spreadsheet programs for SCO OS 5.0?

Spreadsheet programs for SCO OS 5.0?

Post by Michael P. Deign » Sun, 21 Jan 1996 04:00:00





Quote:>More of a problem is convincing companies to port existing
>software to SCO Unix.  I still think SCO needs to take a more active
>role in enticing companies to port.... especially when a particluar
>important type of application is missing from SCO Unix availibility.
>This certainly should include ALL Unix software available for other platforms,
>but I think it should include other software availble for MS-Windows or
>Apple also.  A good cross-platform development tool needs to be endorsed
>and perhaps even resold by SCO.

I don't know -- I think you're asking alot.

If I'm a developer, the X API and the MS Windows API are two
totally different things -- it would be impossible to "port"
the GUI applications that customers demand to SCO without
maintaining two entirely separate code bases. That's alot of
work, considering SCO market size compared to MS Windows market
size.

As a developer, I would be forced to choose MS Windows,
simply for its pure market size.

I think other companies have realized this also. What major
companies current have GUI-product portion projects currently
underway?

MD
--
--
-- "Who needs looks when you've got taste?"
--

 
 
 

Spreadsheet programs for SCO OS 5.0?

Post by Nils.Mykleb.. » Mon, 22 Jan 1996 04:00:00


First for you that want character based applications. Uniplex
is still around as far as I know and have word processing,
spread sheets ++ available.


>  I don't know -- I think you're asking alot.

>  If I'm a developer, the X API and the MS Windows API are two
>  totally different things -- it would be impossible to "port"
>  the GUI applications that customers demand to SCO without
>  maintaining two entirely separate code bases. That's alot of
>  work, considering SCO market size compared to MS Windows market
>  size.

There are libraries available that makes X (Motif?) look like
MS-Windows. As far as I have understood these you are supposed
to be able to have one code base (probably more or less).
I don't know how well they work, but some major software companies
are using them.

Quote:>  As a developer, I would be forced to choose MS Windows,
>  simply for its pure market size.

>  I think other companies have realized this also. What major
>  companies current have GUI-product portion projects currently
>  underway?

Not underway, but Informix is makeing New Era (their development
language) available for both MS Windows and X (Motif). They haven't
(yet) ported to SCO though wich is very bad. Is this SCO's fault?
There seem to be several other companies doing cross platform
development more or less successfully.

A more significant problem is who wants these products with everyone
using MS Windows. Hardly anyone seems to want to use Unix GUI alone.
They need at least some software available only on MS Windows. Then
training problems is only one issue. Installation, support +++ are
others.
Now we are ourselvs an exception to this as we want the Informix
NewEra tools available on SCO. This is not to deploy GUI applications
under X, but to develop partitioned applications where the server
partition runs on SCO. Currently a port to SCO is needed of
NewEra for this.
As Informix don't seem to have any plans for this (not announced at
least) we have to look actively at other options. This kind of
problems I think is even worse for SCO than the lack of end
user applications.


NM-data, Aasesvei 71, 1300 Sandvika, Norway
My opinions are those of my company

 
 
 

Spreadsheet programs for SCO OS 5.0?

Post by Mark Dav » Mon, 22 Jan 1996 04:00:00





>>More of a problem is convincing companies to port existing
>>software to SCO Unix.  I still think SCO needs to take a more active
>>role in enticing companies to port.... especially when a particluar
>>important type of application is missing from SCO Unix availibility.
>>This certainly should include ALL Unix software available for other platforms,
>>but I think it should include other software availble for MS-Windows or
>>Apple also.  A good cross-platform development tool needs to be endorsed
>>and perhaps even resold by SCO.
>I don't know -- I think you're asking alot.

Perhaps, perhaps not!

Quote:>If I'm a developer, the X API and the MS Windows API are two
>totally different things -- it would be impossible to "port"
>the GUI applications that customers demand to SCO without
>maintaining two entirely separate code bases. That's alot of
>work, considering SCO market size compared to MS Windows market
>size.

But that is not true.  There are already posrting kits which allow programmers
to program in a single environment and spit out code that will run
on X, MS-Windows, and Apple.  (I believe Bristol Technologies is an
example).  It is not magic, just cross compiling.  What it can mean is
that for not much more money, even a small software company can have
code which is multi-platform and open.  Even if the entire X market were
less than 5% of their sales, it would still be profitable.  Consider a
program like Corel Draw (they are already multi-platform, although the
Unix version is very behind).  If they only have a MS-Windows version, and
could, without much effort, port to Apple and the major Unixes (SCO, Unixware,
Solaris, Aix, HP/UX), it could represent a 10% increase in sales.  That
10% is like free money.  If one would argue that Unix support is more
expensive, then raise the sales price a reasonable amount to cover it
(or charge for support, like most companies do now anyway).
10% of millions of dollars is a lot of money.  It is also a lot of good
will from customers.  Even if they broke even and made no money on it
at all, it is still good.  It means those companies which have mixed
environments will choose those applications.  I bet the Unix versions of
WordPerfect definately bolstered their non-Unix versions significantly
for just that reason (I have talked to a number of companies who chose
WordPerfect over other word-processors because it was "open", even some
who had very few non MS platforms.)

Quote:>As a developer, I would be forced to choose MS Windows,
>simply for its pure market size.

I just don't see why it has to be an "either-or" type of problem when the
tools do exist to cross-compile things.  I have seen at least 3 different
companies with such programs post on comp.windows.x.

Quote:>I think other companies have realized this also. What major
>companies current have GUI-product portion projects currently
>underway?

I can't answer that, unfortunately.
All I can say is that it is 1996.  There SHOULD be enough applications
for all platforms to prosper.  It is not rocket science.  The ideas of
cross compiling have been around for a long long time, and although I
have no experience with such modern tools, I imagine they have to have evolved
considerably by now.
--
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis     | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk,VA (804)-461-5001x431 |

  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
 
 
 

Spreadsheet programs for SCO OS 5.0?

Post by steve hove » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00




> :     I think it unfortunate that there isn't some kind of special pricing
> : (or, at least, none that I am aware of) for the development kit. The key

> Agreed.  Of course, the old excuse was that AT&T needed it's royalties.

> But, even if SCO is still paying somebody something :-), it would
> be a good investment to subsidize the cost of DS to get them out
> there.

> It wouldn't be such a horrible idea to make some of the less
> important source code available, either :-)

I second this one - a basic inability to rectify bugs myself (because I
cant get sco to do it) is why we are moving away from sco.

-------------------------------------------------------------


 
 
 

Spreadsheet programs for SCO OS 5.0?

Post by Evan Leibovit » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00




Quote:>>I still think SCO needs to take a more active
>>role in enticing companies to port.... especially when a particluar
>>important type of application is missing from SCO Unix availibility.
>>This certainly should include ALL Unix software available for other platforms,
>>but I think it should include other software availble for MS-Windows or
>>Apple also.  A good cross-platform development tool needs to be endorsed
>>and perhaps even resold by SCO.
>I don't know -- I think you're asking alot.
>If I'm a developer, the X API and the MS Windows API are two
>totally different things -- it would be impossible to "port"
>the GUI applications that customers demand to SCO without
>maintaining two entirely separate code bases.

There's a Unix-on-Intel company that's working on releasing
an implementation of the Windows API for X.

And it's not SCO (unless SCO is working on one secretly).

A "Windows Friendly" strategy can embrace many different tactics.
SCO may have coined the name, but it certainly has no monopoly on
the concepts behind it.

One code base. Two platforms. Maybe this (the Windows API for X)
is a better approach to "Windows Friendly" (make Windows apps easy
to port to X) than the SCO approach (make existing X apps look like
Windows). It certainly sounds like a better solution to Michael's
problem.

--
 Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd., located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario

    There are two types of people: those who divide people into two types,
                            and those who don't.

 
 
 

Spreadsheet programs for SCO OS 5.0?

Post by Chris Ruprec » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00


   First for you that want character based applications. Uniplex
   is still around as far as I know and have word processing,
   spread sheets ++ available.

Well, MS-Word 5.1 for SCO Unix is also still around (bought one a year
r so ago).


   >  I don't know -- I think you're asking alot.
   >  
   >  If I'm a developer, the X API and the MS Windows API are two
   >  totally different things -- it would be impossible to "port"

MS-Office, which is MS-Word (Word Processor), MS-Excel (Spreadsheet)
and MS-PowerPoint (Presentation Graphics) are around for MS-Windows
3.1/3.11/95 as well as for the Apple Mac and I don't believe the
Windows API is in any way comparable to the MacOS API. And then there
is WordPerfect, which is available for Windows, Mac and X.

   >  the GUI applications that customers demand to SCO without
   >  maintaining two entirely separate code bases. That's alot of
   >  work, considering SCO market size compared to MS Windows market
   >  size.

   There are libraries available that makes X (Motif?) look like
   MS-Windows. As far as I have understood these you are supposed
   to be able to have one code base (probably more or less).
   I don't know how well they work, but some major software companies
   are using them.

For SCO OS 5, there is WABI which if understand things right lets you
run MS-Windows applications under X11 (Motif) as if they were native
Motif apps. But why would I get myself a $20'000 machine, but a $$$
operatine systems on it, so that I can run an emulator which in turn
can run an application every sh*tt* $1000 box can run better and
faster?

   >  As a developer, I would be forced to choose MS Windows,
   >  simply for its pure market size.
   >  

Unless you want to use the Unix box as a server of some kind. Let your
users run Windows for the typical PC tasks (Word, Excel and so on). I
would not trust a DOS/Windows PC with by companies database which gets
accessed by hundreds of people all the time. Let the users have the
'nice and easy' life of Windows, let us gurus play with things like X,
TeX, gcc and Emacs ;).

   >  I think other companies have realized this also. What major
   >  companies current have GUI-product portion projects currently
   >  underway?

   Not underway, but Informix is makeing New Era (their development
   language) available for both MS Windows and X (Motif). They haven't
   (yet) ported to SCO though wich is very bad. Is this SCO's fault?
   There seem to be several other companies doing cross platform
   development more or less successfully.

   A more significant problem is who wants these products with everyone
   using MS Windows. Hardly anyone seems to want to use Unix GUI alone.
   They need at least some software available only on MS Windows. Then
   training problems is only one issue. Installation, support +++ are
   others.

   Now we are ourselvs an exception to this as we want the Informix
   NewEra tools available on SCO. This is not to deploy GUI applications
   under X, but to develop partitioned applications where the server
   partition runs on SCO. Currently a port to SCO is needed of
   NewEra for this.
   As Informix don't seem to have any plans for this (not announced at
   least) we have to look actively at other options. This kind of
   problems I think is even worse for SCO than the lack of end
   user applications.

Did you ever ask yourself why Netscape did not release their products
for SCO? I did, and I asked them, too. But I got no answer except:
"SCO? Sorry, not supported, good bye, don't call again."

Regards,
Chris

--
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Spreadsheet programs for SCO OS 5.0?

Post by Tony Lawren » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00


: I agree.  The cost of the development system should be nearly irrelevant
: to most companies who produce software (aspecially when considering the
: discounts).  More of a problem is convincing companies to port existing

The cost is irrelevant to those already marketing a real product under
Windows OS's, but it *is* significant to the garage and cellar type
company.  Historically, it is from *those* developers that real
innovation comes from.

Along with tons of useless junk, of course :-)

--
Tony

 
 
 

Spreadsheet programs for SCO OS 5.0?

Post by Tony Lawren » Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:00:00


:     I think it unfortunate that there isn't some kind of special pricing
: (or, at least, none that I am aware of) for the development kit. The key
: to having a strong operating system acceptance is lots of available
: software. How can you get software written for your OS? Make the
: compilers affordable to those of us with house payments, car payments,
: kids in school, etc. etc.

Agreed.  Of course, the old excuse was that AT&T needed it's royalties.

But, even if SCO is still paying somebody something :-), it would
be a good investment to subsidize the cost of DS to get them out
there.

It wouldn't be such a horrible idea to make some of the less
important source code available, either :-)

--
Tony

 
 
 

Spreadsheet programs for SCO OS 5.0?

Post by Jim Sulliv » Wed, 24 Jan 1996 04:00:00




>More of a problem is convincing companies to port existing
>software to SCO Unix.  I still think SCO needs to take a more active
>role in enticing companies to port.... especially when a particluar
>important type of application is missing from SCO Unix availibility.
>This certainly should include ALL Unix software available for other platforms,
>but I think it should include other software availble for MS-Windows or
>Apple also.  A good cross-platform development tool needs to be endorsed
>and perhaps even resold by SCO.

And I actually believe that we are moving in that direction.

SCO has had a Developer's program for over 6 years now.  It's had a variety
of incarnations, but in general, members of the Developer's Alliance

should get you an answer.  There is also additional information on the
SCO home page about the Developer's Alliance.

OpenServer Release 5 has a number of very interesting features, but the
development system is possibley the most interesting (of course, I work
with the development system engineers in Toronto, but at no time have
they influenced my opinion :-).  By migrating the development system
code base to the USL code based we've been able leverage a number of
changes with respect to the development system.  Since we no longer have
to give Microsoft their slice with every development system, we can
provide the libraries and headers separately from the development system.
Since the USL code base is closer to the other UNIX's compilers, it
is now easier to port code from other platforms to SCO.  As a number of
people have noted in the past, OpenServer Release 5 is a much easier
port for the shareware/GNU/public domain software out there.  Remember
that any reseller can purchase a Not For Resale package of OpenServer
Release 5 that includes the Development System (as well as Wabi, Merge,
SMP and the Virtual Disk Manager).  For a while there, we were offering
a free copy of the NFR package for anyone who purchased a new copy of
OpenServer Release 5.  Maybe we'll do it again :-)

There are new groups within the Sales and Marketing and new account
representatives that are focused on the Independent Software Vendors
are are charged with recruiting them and getting them to port their
applications to SCO.

Finally, there is a new Engineering group, based in Toronto, that is
tasked with working with the ISV's to help them port their applications
to SCO and make sure that they run well and bug free.  

SCO continues to attract new VAR's and ISV's.  Ideas and suggestions on
how to make our efforts more effective are always welcome.
--
Jim Sullivan                            
SCO Canada, Inc. Toronto, Ontario        UNIX is a registered trademark of

416 960 4042 (922 8397 for fax)               "The Dust has Settled"
--
Jim Sullivan

 
 
 

Spreadsheet programs for SCO OS 5.0?

Post by Nils.Mykleb.. » Wed, 24 Jan 1996 04:00:00



>  Did you ever ask yourself why Netscape did not release their products
>  for SCO? I did, and I asked them, too. But I got no answer except:
>  "SCO? Sorry, not supported, good bye, don't call again."

I never understood this. Netscape should be such important products for
SCO that they should do everything in their power (possibly even more) to
get them ported. Here I don't mean the Navigator, but the server products.
So is also products like Informix NewEra.
These are server type products. This is the important type of products
for SCO. If we can't use SCO as a server because the products we need
on the server aren't available, that's the final end for SCO.
Currently this seems to be approaching :-(((
Is anybody doing anything?

Anybody know when Informix NewEra will be available on SCO?


NM-data, Aasesvei 71, 1300 Sandvika, Norway
My opinions are those of my company

 
 
 

Spreadsheet programs for SCO OS 5.0?

Post by Nils.Mykleb.. » Wed, 24 Jan 1996 04:00:00



>  Did you ever ask yourself why Netscape did not release their products
>  for SCO? I did, and I asked them, too. But I got no answer except:
>  "SCO? Sorry, not supported, good bye, don't call again."

I never understood this. Netscape should have such important products for
SCO that they should do everything in their power (possibly even more) to
get them ported. Here I don't mean the Navigator, but the server products.
So is also products like Informix NewEra.

These are server type products. This is the important type of products
for SCO. If we can't use SCO as a server because the products we need
on the server aren't available, that's the final end for SCO.
Currently this seems to be approaching :-(((
Is anybody doing anything? I know this is a little retoric, but I mean
concretly which of the important server type products that aren't
currently available will be in the near future?

Anybody know when Informix NewEra will be available on SCO?


NM-data, Aasesvei 71, 1300 Sandvika, Norway
My opinions are those of my company

 
 
 

Spreadsheet programs for SCO OS 5.0?

Post by Michael P. Deign » Fri, 26 Jan 1996 04:00:00




Quote:>There's a Unix-on-Intel company that's working on releasing
>an implementation of the Windows API for X.

Hmmm. Interesting concept. I suppose it would be possible to develop
a library that contains Windows API function calls and "translates"
them to an appropriate X function.

Quote:>One code base. Two platforms. Maybe this (the Windows API for X)
>is a better approach to "Windows Friendly" (make Windows apps easy
>to port to X) than the SCO approach (make existing X apps look like
>Windows).

Let's put it this way: such a tool vastly reduces the cost of
making your application available for Unix to that of the mere
incremental cost of support. You gain an entirely new market with
near-zero development time, and little if any development overhead.

Of course, we're assuming that the appropriate compiler exists, and
if it does, that it can actually compile code correctly without
modifications (how many of us have had to "tweak" copious amounts of
source code to get it to compile correctly on SCO?)

If SCO did have such a tool available (and made freely available as
part of the system libraries, etc., that they now distribute free
of charge) and marketed it correctly to developers, the application
base could expand significantly in a short period of time.

However, I tend to doubt that is going to happen. I was reading an
article in Communications Week today that discussed SCO's acquisition
of Unixware and the plans for SCO's kernel. A SCO company representative
(can't recall who offhand, and the paper is at work) was quoted as
saying something along the lines of "there are over 12,000 applications
available for SCO".

Thus, it would seem that SCO's management seems to think that there are
more than enough applications available for SCO.

MD
--
--
-- "Who needs looks when you've got taste?"
--

 
 
 

Spreadsheet programs for SCO OS 5.0?

Post by Tony Lawren » Sat, 27 Jan 1996 04:00:00



: However, I tend to doubt that is going to happen. I was reading an
: article in Communications Week today that discussed SCO's acquisition
: of Unixware and the plans for SCO's kernel. A SCO company representative
: (can't recall who offhand, and the paper is at work) was quoted as
: saying something along the lines of "there are over 12,000 applications
: available for SCO".

I bet "ed" is one of them :-)

--
Tony