Very Computer

        We currently use a backup program called Lone-Tar on our SCO system.
At times, the backup will just hang for no reason.  The process can't be
killed, so this results in a reboot to get the backups/tape drive working
again.  We're using an HP 2 gig DAT drive, and I have tried different drives,
and the problem still remains, be it a week later or a month.

        Has anyone else had these problems?  Although we're running an
ancient version of Lone-Tar, I beleive the problem is with the tape drive
drivers.  Lone-Tar isn't much more than some menu scripts built around a
tar that does compress.  

        Also note that we're using OS 3 on an AST Manahattan.

Thanks,

Dan

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      715 Goddard Ave                 |
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Quote:>    We currently use a backup program called Lone-Tar on our SCO system.
> At times, the backup will just hang for no reason.  The process can't be
> killed, so this results in a reboot to get the backups/tape drive working
> again.  We're using an HP 2 gig DAT drive, and I have tried different drives,
> and the problem still remains, be it a week later or a month.

>    Has anyone else had these problems?  Although we're running an
> ancient version of Lone-Tar, I beleive the problem is with the tape drive
> drivers.  Lone-Tar isn't much more than some menu scripts built around a
> tar that does compress.

   I placed a tape reset command in my cron file to execute about five
minutes before the nightly backup.  It definitely seems to help (until I
can afford a new Tandberg tape drive).

    If you want to try the latest version of Lone-TAr, you may ftp a demo
from
        ftp.cactus.com/cowboy

and look for scou/ltscou.tar.Z.

    Lone-Tar upgrade pricing is available.

Regards,
Lucky

Lucky Leavell                            Phone: (812) 945-6555
Relational Information Systems, Inc.       FAX: (812) 949-9233

New Albany, IN 47150-2013                       71534,2674 (CompuServe)
WWW Home Page:  http://www.iglou.com/ris   ftp://www.iglou.com/members/ris

Your S/N:105174 was replaced back in 8/2/93 from a major flood you guys
had. It was for your WYSE (AT&T Unix). If you have switched to SCO,
you should get an update for that copy. Your version is v1.2.2.3... and
we are up to v2.1.1.3. You're missing some major enhancements and features.

LONE-TAR(tm) does one heck of alot more then compress 'tar'. It backs up
empty directories, links, sym-links, device files, FIFOs to name a few.
The interface you have is ancient compared to what we are shipping. The
new version also has some neat report generator that you fax in. It really
does help in support issues like this.

LONE-TAR handles interupts cleanly. IOW: If you cannot kill the process,
then the interupt is out to lunch (as far as the kernel is concerned).

Thanks!
Jeff Hyman
President
                                .--.
__________________________  .-. |  |  __________________________________

 Cactus International, Inc. | |_|  | | | Sales:   (800) LONE-TAR
 13987 W. Annapolis Ct.  _  |___   |_| | Support: (301) 829-1622
 Mt. Airy, MD 21771    _| ~-    |   ___| Fax:     (301) 829-1623
 Jeffrey Hyman         \,  _}   |  |     FTP:     ftp.cactus.com
 CompuServe: 74710,2627  \(     |  |     WWW:     http://www.cactus.com
------------------------------- |  | -----------------------------------
                                |  |

Dan,
        I have a SCO 3.2r4.2 system running an SCSI HP DAT drive with similar problems.
        I should say we 'HAD' those problems.  We found that the model of HP drive we
        had would hang (stop communicating) over the SCSI bus.  We installed the
        new HP DAT Drive and the problem went away.  If you use the SCO utility
        'tape status' you'll also get 'stuck' so it may not be restricted to LoneTar.

Roger.

Quote:>>> drivers.  Lone-Tar isn't much more than some menu scripts built around a
>>> tar that does compress.

>>>         Also note that we're using OS 3 on an AST Manahattan.

>We have the same problem from time to time but only on backing up the
>disks on one controiller (DPT - although I doubt it has anything to do
>with the adapter). Backups from disks on the other controller (Adaptec)

Quote:>do not hang. The HP Dat tape is on the DPT controller (?). When we have
>this freeze-up we find the disk traffic light is on indicating a SCSI
>hang.
>--
>Greg Hayes

4mm DDS is quite painful.  The tapes drive needs to be cleaned up every
32 hours of use (em, 8 hours of backup and 8 hours of verify, PER server) so
that means I have to clean it every 2 days.  With about 12 servers you can
tell how much fun that is.

The 8mm Exabyte is WAY more reliable, but it's too expensive.  

I wonder having 2 seperate SCSI controller will be a better idea, since the
tape drive lockup (when the HD is sharing the SCSI card) can cause a panic.

Quote:>MD Hayford Systems Ltd
>+44 (0)171 247 3005 Tel
>+44 (0)171 247 3280 Fax

$       We currently use a backup program called Lone-Tar on our SCO system.
$At times, the backup will just hang for no reason.  The process can't be
$killed, so this results in a reboot to get the backups/tape drive working
$again.  We're using an HP 2 gig DAT drive, and I have tried different drives,
$and the problem still remains, be it a week later or a month.
$
$       Has anyone else had these problems?  Although we're running an
$ancient version of Lone-Tar, I beleive the problem is with the tape drive
$drivers.  Lone-Tar isn't much more than some menu scripts built around a
$tar that does compress.  

   Lone-Tar is a heck of a lot more than that ... but you're right.
It's not a Lone-Tar problem.  You may well find the same thing
if you use any other backup product, including cpio or tar, though if
it's a timing issue it may be hard to duplicate.

   This is a hardware or driver problem.  The unkillable process
is in kernel mode, waiting for the tape driver to finish processing
a request and return control.  If, due to a driver bug or a hardware
problem, the request never completes, the tape driver never returns
control to the application, and the application is stuck in kernel
mode.  When in kernel mode, an application can't be killed.

   You've replaced the tape drive.  Did the different drives have
different firmware versions, just in case there's a firmware
bug?  Have you tried replacing SCSI cables, termination, the
host adapter, the host adapter's firmware, and checking to see
if there's a newer driver for the host adapter?  Are there any
SLSes applicable to your release which might resolve this?
--

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Manager, Technical Services                     United System Solutions Inc.
104 Carnforth Road, Toronto, ON, Canada M4A 2K7          (416) 750-7946 x251

$4mm DDS is quite painful.  The tapes drive needs to be cleaned up every
$32 hours of use (em, 8 hours of backup and 8 hours of verify, PER server) so
$that means I have to clean it every 2 days.  With about 12 servers you can
$tell how much fun that is.
$
$The 8mm Exabyte is WAY more reliable, but it's too expensive.  

   I don't find 8mm to be terrific, either - and they need frequent
cleaning as well.

   Let's put it this way - how much is your data worth to you?
I just had no problem at all talking my boss into buying a
15-30 GB DLT drive and a whole pile of tapes for it - and the
DLT drive is roughly twice the price of a 7-14 GB 8mm drive,
and the tapes are over CAD100 from what I'm told.  This is to back
up the server which stores the majority of our business' crucial
data - accounting, payroll, internal systems, and source and
binaries for dozens upon dozens of systems we've developed for
clients.  We simply cannot afford anything less than a reliable
backup system for this data.
--

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Manager, Technical Services                     United System Solutions Inc.
104 Carnforth Road, Toronto, ON, Canada M4A 2K7          (416) 750-7946 x251