Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Post by Jeff=Kinsey%DSM%D.. » Sat, 22 Jul 1995 04:00:00




>Does anybody have any idea how a Pentium (even dual Pentium) stacks up
>performance-wise against an IBM RS/6000 running accounting type stuff.

stock answer: i do not know. better question might be what accounting
packages will run on what platforms?

SCO has always been a main-stay for accounting applications... and i think
of the rs6000 (AIX) as an engineering box.

-jeff

p.s.  just my own personal two (2) cents worth...

 
 
 

Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Post by jmagi » Sat, 22 Jul 1995 04:00:00




Quote:

>Does anybody have any idea how a Pentium (even dual Pentium) stacks up
>performance-wise against an IBM RS/6000 running accounting type stuff.
>I realize this is a very broad question (which probably begs for very
>broad answers) as there are many ways to configure a Pentium and there
>are many different models of the RS/6000.

Look i believe the answer is simple anything stacks up against ibm. Why do
you think they have licensed intel based multi processor platform from
corollary. But to be a little more serious if you want tied to ibm the
rest of your life sure the rs6000 provides an viable solution. Sco on the
other hand provides a very open platform. Not only can you dump the
hardware if it proves poor you could overnight ditch the operating system
for another open platform.
Mind you Sco are a bunch of *ers just like the rest but the are a
damned site more sco *ers than rs6000's *ers.
Humble Opinion
John

 
 
 

Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Post by David Ehre » Sat, 22 Jul 1995 04:00:00


Quote:>Look i believe the answer is simple anything stacks up against ibm. Why do
>you think they have licensed intel based multi processor platform from
>corollary. But to be a little more serious if you want tied to ibm the
>rest of your life sure the rs6000 provides an viable solution. Sco on the
>other hand provides a very open platform. Not only can you dump the
>hardware if it proves poor you could overnight ditch the operating system
>for another open platform.
>Mind you Sco are a bunch of *ers just like the rest but the are a
>damned site more sco *ers than rs6000's *ers.
>Humble Opinion
>John

Hmmm.... Sounds like an overly simplistic summary.  IBM AIX on an RS/6000 is a
very reliable solution -- moreso than SCO.  System administration is simpler
using SMIT, too.  Some of the lower-end RS/6000 models (I've forgotten the
model numbers) are not upgradable; the rest are.  Basically, the RS/6000 is
best for mid-size Unix shops (60+ users), and SCO or Solaris or Unixware is
best for under 60.  For a few users, it's just not worth the money to buy an
RS/6000.

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Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Post by Sand » Sat, 22 Jul 1995 04:00:00




>>Does anybody have any idea how a Pentium (even dual Pentium) stacks up
>>performance-wise against an IBM RS/6000 running accounting type stuff.

>stock answer: i do not know. better question might be what accounting
>packages will run on what platforms?

>SCO has always been a main-stay for accounting applications... and i think
>of the rs6000 (AIX) as an engineering box.

 Unixware has excellent multiprocessesor performance and considering
 the price advantage of pentium vs. risc machines (usually) this might
 be a good solution.  Above comment is absolutely true.  SCO will
 give you the widest selection of off the shelf accounting software.


 
 
 

Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Post by Lucky Leavel » Sat, 22 Jul 1995 04:00:00


Does anybody have any idea how a Pentium (even dual Pentium) stacks up
performance-wise against an IBM RS/6000 running accounting type stuff.
I realize this is a very broad question (which probably begs for very
broad answers) as there are many ways to configure a Pentium and there
are many different models of the RS/6000.

Thank you,
Lucky

Lucky Leavell                            Phone: (812) 945-6555
Relational Information Systems, Inc.       FAX: (812) 949-9233

New Albany, IN 47150-2013                       71534,2674 (CompuServe)
                                 WWW Home Page:  http://wl.iglou.com/ris

 
 
 

Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Post by Danny Aldh » Sat, 22 Jul 1995 04:00:00



>Hmmm.... Sounds like an overly simplistic summary.  IBM AIX on an RS/6000 is a
>very reliable solution -- moreso than SCO.  System administration is simpler
>using SMIT, too.  Some of the lower-end RS/6000 models (I've forgotten the
>model numbers) are not upgradable; the rest are.  Basically, the RS/6000 is
>best for mid-size Unix shops (60+ users), and SCO or Solaris or Unixware is
>best for under 60.  For a few users, it's just not worth the money to buy an
>RS/6000.

Open Server 5.0 has a point and click sys-admin that my mother could
figure out. As for user loads, we have a number of systems that run
over 100 users. About 125 is our max right now, but they are always
growing. We have dozens of customers that run 70 to 100 users. And
with dual Pentiums, they are still 85% idle.

Best thing about SCO though, is that you are not locked in to a
hardware platform. With a backup and a restore you can change
platforms in an evening. With IBM , you are locked in.

Danny Aldham --- Tech Support Manager
       CGS Inc.   Vancouver BC
Phone (604) 528-6000 Fax (604) 528-6090

 
 
 

Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Post by Michael P. Deign » Sun, 23 Jul 1995 04:00:00




Quote:>>using SMIT, too.  Some of the lower-end RS/6000 models (I've forgotten the
>>model numbers) are not upgradable; the rest are.  Basically, the RS/6000 is
>>best for mid-size Unix shops (60+ users), and SCO or Solaris or Unixware is
>>best for under 60.  For a few users, it's just not worth the money to buy an
>>RS/6000.

>Open Server 5.0 has a point and click sys-admin that my mother could
>figure out. As for user loads, we have a number of systems that run
>over 100 users. About 125 is our max right now, but they are always
>growing. We have dozens of customers that run 70 to 100 users. And
>with dual Pentiums, they are still 85% idle.

I administer both SCO and AIX boxes. I don't think the two are
necessarily comparible. The AIX machines I administer are used
for heavy statistical and econometrical analysis. The SCO boxes are
business machines used for AP, Order entry, etc. If someone told me
they wanted to buy a system for accounting, I'd tell them to get a
SCO box. If, on the other hand, they wanted to run gauss, stata, or
sas, I'd recommend the floating point power of a RS/6000 .

Quote:>Best thing about SCO though, is that you are not locked in to a
>hardware platform. With a backup and a restore you can change
>platforms in an evening. With IBM , you are locked in.

Well, not anymore. As someone else pointed out in an experiment they
ran, you can't just swap the system around with the new OS, the
license manager chokes. There goes plug-and-play.

MD

--
--   Who needs looks when you have taste?
--  
--   http://pstc3.pstc.brown.edu/roster/deignan

 
 
 

Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Post by Bob Wille » Sun, 23 Jul 1995 04:00:00


Quote:> Does anybody have any idea how a Pentium (even dual Pentium) stacks up
> performance-wise against an IBM RS/6000 running accounting type stuff.
> I realize this is a very broad question (which probably begs for very
> broad answers) as there are many ways to configure a Pentium and there
> are many different models of the RS/6000.

Actually, you are not by yourself in wanting to know this sort of
information.   As it turns out, this week we went into a prospective
clients who currently have an IBM RT, and their current vendor is
recommending an upgrade to an RS/6000, we are recommending an upgrade to an
Acer/Altos 7000/p.  It is very difficult to get any meaningful numbers, so
if anyone out there has seen some real firsthand experiences it would be
very helpful.

THanks.

--

#.. CCS Enterprises, Inc.    ..  |  ..   Office: (410) 820-4670          ..#
#.. P.O. Drawer 1690         ..  |  ..      FAX: (410) 476-5261          ..#
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Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Post by Stephen M. Du » Sun, 23 Jul 1995 04:00:00


$>Does anybody have any idea how a Pentium (even dual Pentium) stacks up
$>performance-wise against an IBM RS/6000 running accounting type stuff.
$
$SCO has always been a main-stay for accounting applications... and i think
$of the rs6000 (AIX) as an engineering box.

   That's perhaps a good point.  There are huge architectural differences
between the two, but one of them is that the POWER processors in
general have vastly better floating-point performance.  Most business
applications don't use floating-point, while most engineering applications
make very heavy use of it - and so if you see a benchmark for a POWER
system that shows excellent performance, you have to find out exactly
what the benchmark was testing.  If floating point factored heavily
in it, then it's not telling you much about how accounting software will
run.

   Accounting usually involves disk I/O and general-purpose CPU
instructions, typically including integer arithmetic.  I'm not
saying the RISC System/6000 family isn't good at either - I was
generally very happy with the performance of an early 6000 I used
five years ago for a business application - but just that you have
to pretty much ignore its great floating-point abilities when making
your comparisons here.
--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen M. Dunn, CNE, ACE, Sr. Systems Analyst, United System Solutions Inc.
104 Carnforth Road, Toronto, ON, Canada M4A 2K7          (416) 750-7946 x251

 
 
 

Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Post by Sheldon Parme » Mon, 24 Jul 1995 04:00:00



>> Does anybody have any idea how a Pentium (even dual Pentium) stacks up
>> performance-wise against an IBM RS/6000 running accounting type stuff.
>> I realize this is a very broad question (which probably begs for very
>> broad answers) as there are many ways to configure a Pentium and there
>> are many different models of the RS/6000.

>Actually, you are not by yourself in wanting to know this sort of
>information.   As it turns out, this week we went into a prospective
>clients who currently have an IBM RT, and their current vendor is
>recommending an upgrade to an RS/6000, we are recommending an upgrade to an
>Acer/Altos 7000/p.  It is very difficult to get any meaningful numbers, so
>if anyone out there has seen some real firsthand experiences it would be
>very helpful.

>THanks.

>--

>#.. CCS Enterprises, Inc.    ..  |  ..   Office: (410) 820-4670          ..#
>#.. P.O. Drawer 1690         ..  |  ..      FAX: (410) 476-5261          ..#
>#.. Easton, Maryland 21601 ......|......... BBS: (410) 476-5098 ...........#

I don't have "real firsthand experiences".  However, one source of info that I found
is the "Unix System Price Performance Guide" by AIM TECHNOLOGIES.  A single copy
cost around $13.00 and you can request 5 free reports.  I think I got my summer of
'95 issue free from SCO.  In this issue, a $17K Digital Prioris HX 590DP with dual
Pentium processors running ODT 3.0 Lite and SCO MPX 3.0 offered roughly double the
performance of a $38.5K IBM RS/6000 POWERserver C10.  This, of course, is according
to the benchmarks used by AIM.

AIM has a web site:  www.aim.com
AIM's phone number is 408 748-8649

IMHO, the performance guide is worth 13 bucks.  If anyone has any other performance
comparisons, I would like to know about them.

Sheldon Parmer
MicroAge of Birmingham, APC

 
 
 

Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Post by Warren Sto » Tue, 25 Jul 1995 04:00:00



>> Does anybody have any idea how a Pentium (even dual Pentium) stacks up
>> performance-wise against an IBM RS/6000 running accounting type stuff.
>> I realize this is a very broad question (which probably begs for very
>> broad answers) as there are many ways to configure a Pentium and there
>> are many different models of the RS/6000.
>Actually, you are not by yourself in wanting to know this sort of
>information.   As it turns out, this week we went into a prospective
>clients who currently have an IBM RT, and their current vendor is
>recommending an upgrade to an RS/6000, we are recommending an upgrade to an
>Acer/Altos 7000/p.  It is very difficult to get any meaningful numbers, so
>if anyone out there has seen some real firsthand experiences it would be
>very helpful.

Meaningful numbers will remain hard to establish.  Comparing the RS6k
family, or any RISC system, to an Intel box is and has been an apples
to oranges comparison.  The claims of "if you want tied to ibm for the
rest of your life" the questions is equally valid, do you want tied to
Intel?

The PowerPC MC60x chip is more open ended than the Pent simply because
of thetechnology.  Max out a Pent and all you can do is add another.
The MC60x family has just begun, there is plenty of room to grow
withing the single processor and you can always multiprocess as well.
RISC, from any vendor, is not as limited by packaging physics the
Intel family.

As to the fact that your customer has an RT, their transition training
and sysadmn will be much easier from AIX to AIX, different as RT AIX
and AIX 3.2.5 and 4.x are, than from AIX to to SCO.

Back to Intel, you can count on growth and primary emphasis on *IX
from folks liek IBM and SUN, Intel will follow (or create) the wind in
the PC arena, with or without SCO or Netware or any *IX.  Their market
is only minorly *IX, and as Deep Throat supposedly said, "Follow the
money."

As pointed out, moving from one Intel box to another is not as simple
as one might like to think.  Further, new RS6k machines will have a
PCI bus so the MCA and proprietary add-on limitations arguements will
eventualy die away.

I. too, administer both AIX and SCO systems.  AIX ( => 3.2.5 ) is much
easier to manage and much more stable.  You will have a hard sell if
your competitor has his ducks (and perhaps an IBM rep) in a row.  And
the price delta.

Warren

======================================================
 "My boss says we need some eunuch programmers."
 "I think he means UNIX and I already know UNIX."
 "Well, if the company nurse comes by, tell her
  I said never mind."
                                     - Dilbert -
======================================================

W. Stott & Assoc.                 Systems, Software, Support  
(303) 666-0499                         Superior, CO

 
 
 

Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Post by Michael P. Deign » Wed, 26 Jul 1995 04:00:00




Quote:>I too administer both RS/6000s, and Intel systems running both SCO and
>UnixWare. Even in circumstances where the RISC system has more raw
>horsepower, it's compensated for by the almost-usurious premiums charged
>for IBM-service-blessed peripherals.

Other than the base IBM system, I never buy IBM peripherals, nor must
I. I always add 3rd party CD-ROMs, 8MM drives, hard drives, etc., at
prices way below IBM premium.

Quote:>Add 1GB of hard disk to an Intel system and an RS/6000 and compare the
>cost. It's phenominal. Ditto RAM, etc.

1GB of hard disk is going to cost me the same amount. Unless, of course,
you force me to buy it from IBM. But that's not a fair comparison,
since you could always look in Computer Shopper for the special-of-the-
week. I've routinely swapped SCSI perips from RS/6000 boxes to
SCO and PC machines, almost weekly.

RAM is a different story, but is priced in two separate components --
the memory card, and the RAM itself. RAM prices are definitely higher
on an RS/6000, but then again, I've never just been able to swap in
some el-cheapo 72-pin SIMMS without getting numerous parity errors and
system hangs.

MD

--
--   Who needs looks when you have taste?
--  
--   http://pstc3.pstc.brown.edu/roster/deignan

 
 
 

Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Post by Barry Roombe » Fri, 04 Aug 1995 04:00:00



Quote:

<< SNIP >>>

>>Add 1GB of hard disk to an Intel system and an RS/6000 and compare the
>>cost. It's phenominal. Ditto RAM, etc.

>1GB of hard disk is going to cost me the same amount. Unless, of course,
>you force me to buy it from IBM. But that's not a fair comparison,
>since you could always look in Computer Shopper for the special-of-the-
>week. I've routinely swapped SCSI perips from RS/6000 boxes to
>SCO and PC machines, almost weekly.

There is NO way most True Blue shops will allow that type of behaviour.
You lose the warm blue fuzzies when you do that, and that is why
you are paying the enourmous difference for essentially the same
hardware.  You are in a unique situation that you are allowed to swap
3rd party hard drives into IBM boxes.

Quote:>RAM is a different story, but is priced in two separate components --
>the memory card, and the RAM itself. RAM prices are definitely higher
>on an RS/6000, but then again, I've never just been able to swap in
>some el-cheapo 72-pin SIMMS without getting numerous parity errors and
>system hangs.

Neither have I.  That's why I'm willing to pay the premium $50 a meg
(NOT $200 that IBM will charge you!).  Bottom line, though, the
second you add 3rd party to a blue box, IBM will not support it!
 
 
 

Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Post by Malcolm Sommervill » Sat, 05 Aug 1995 04:00:00





>  Deignan) says:

> >1GB of hard disk is going to cost me the same amount. Unless, of course,
> >you force me to buy it from IBM. But that's not a fair comparison,
> >since you could always look in Computer Shopper for the special-of-the-
> >week. I've routinely swapped SCSI perips from RS/6000 boxes to
> >SCO and PC machines, almost weekly.

> There is NO way most True Blue shops will allow that type of behaviour.
> You lose the warm blue fuzzies when you do that, and that is why
> you are paying the enourmous difference for essentially the same
> hardware.  You are in a unique situation that you are allowed to swap
> 3rd party hard drives into IBM boxes.

Hardly 'unique'.  I also put 3rd party h/w into RS/6000's.  Often the support
offered by the 3rd party vendor is better than, or at least as good as IBM's
(and the hardware is a fraction of the price).

Quote:

> >RAM is a different story, but is priced in two separate components --
> >the memory card, and the RAM itself. RAM prices are definitely higher
> >on an RS/6000, but then again, I've never just been able to swap in
> >some el-cheapo 72-pin SIMMS without getting numerous parity errors and
> >system hangs.

> Neither have I.  That's why I'm willing to pay the premium $50 a meg
> (NOT $200 that IBM will charge you!).  Bottom line, though, the
> second you add 3rd party to a blue box, IBM will not support it!
>                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If you have customers who insist on IBM doing _all_ their h/w support. For
a (probably exorbitant) fee, IBM _will_ support 3rd party hardware.

ObJoke:  Definition of an IBM man-year

         700 people trying to finish the project by lunchtime

--

Malcolm

---
Malcolm Sommerville

Posting from exile on a foreign machine!

 
 
 

Pentium/SCO vs RS/6000

Post by Michael P. Deign » Sat, 05 Aug 1995 04:00:00




Quote:>There is NO way most True Blue shops will allow that type of behaviour.
>You lose the warm blue fuzzies when you do that, and that is why
>you are paying the enourmous difference for essentially the same
>hardware.  You are in a unique situation that you are allowed to swap
>3rd party hard drives into IBM boxes.

If this hypothesis is correct, which I do not agree it is, then attempting
to compare system costs is pointless, since "brand loyalty" is something
you cannot put a pricetag on.

Quote:>Neither have I.  That's why I'm willing to pay the premium $50 a meg
>(NOT $200 that IBM will charge you!).  

I routinely purchase Cambex 32mb memory cards, populated, for $1800.
At $50/meg, that's $1600 for the RAM (and therefore $200 for the
memory card). Clearly RAM for RS/6000's is competitively priced.

Quote:>Bottom line, though, the
>second you add 3rd party to a blue box, IBM will not support it!

This is just a completely erroneous statement. True, IBM does not
provide technical support for a Seagate disk drive, but then again,
neither does SCO. IBM *does* provide technical support for adding
a non-IBM SCSI drive to your system, and some 3rd party (such as
Cambex memory cards) add-ons even qualify for IBM service.

MD

--
--   Who needs looks when you have taste?
--  
--   http://pstc3.pstc.brown.edu/roster/deignan

 
 
 

1. RS/6000 error msgs (Was: Re: RS/6000 survey - will post summary)

[LANG=En_US]  ksh: kjj: 0403-016 Cannot find or open the file.
[LANG=C]      ksh: kjj: cannot open

[LANG=En_US]  0506-764 ln: /tmp: Cannot use this command with a directory.
[LANG=C]      ln : </tmp> directory

 Canonicalizing all the error msgs by assigning them numbers and more
verbose explanations isn't such a bad idea, but it will hardly make
the system usable by secretaries. It does nothing to prevent an
accidental "rm *" or hide the details of the filesystem from the user.
Secretaries will run Motif and shrink-wrapped applications in
which case they will probably never [want to] use Unix shells. And they
shouldn't need to.
 The big gain here will be made by IBM SEs who will now be able to
look up customers' complaints by the error number.

    I haven't heard about IBM shipping *anything* on a Powerstation
yet. You can buy SunOS 4.1 *today* which is B2 certified.
And AT&T is advertising System V/MLS which is B1
certified -- I don't know if it's shipping yet.
    If security is important to you, you sure don't want to go with
a measly C2 rated system.

      ---Jason
-----

Jason Martin Levitt    P.O. Box 49860  Austin, Texas 78765  (512) 459-0055

UUCP    : cs.utexas.edu!hackbox!jason |  the American spirit and continues to
BIX     : jlevitt                     |  show us the way to follow our dreams."
                                      |             -Ronald Reagan [1990]

2. How to make a process connect to a p-tty

3. Fonts for InfoExplorer on RS/6000 (was: Re: Font problems on RS/6000 running X11R5)

4. Apache Access Control

5. RS/6000 RAID vs. AIX RAID

6. How to set up a dial-in connection

7. Stock Exabyte vs RS/6000

8. sleeping function called from illegal context at mm/slab.c

9. Technical workstation comparison (RS/6000 vs. SS10)

10. RS/6000 vs. SP2 performance

11. RS/6000 vs other workstations

12. RS/6000 vs. COMPAQ SYSTEM-PRO: Which is faster?

13. RS/6000 vs. HP9000 for SAP