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Post by jcb.. » Tue, 20 Jul 1993 21:17:03





>>NT is a big hype !  It's unstable, expensive, fat, and from Microsoft ...

>>If anyone wants a commercial replacement for DOS, get OS/2 2.1 - it's far
>>better. But if you wanna have the real thing,

>>                                      GET LINUX

>It's a sad time for IBM when people think Micros*t is a bigger threat than
>them these days. *I*nternational *B*iscuit *M*akers, isn't it now?

Well, at least Big Black&Blue is willing to *try* to change with the times...
the days of IBM "big iron" are over, and their workstation & OS/2 division are
actually reasonably responsive to customers...

and anyway, when was the last time you heard the CEO of IBM claiming that
"OS/2 will be the most popular form of UNIX ever..." which is what Bill the Gates
claimed about Windows NT...:-)

John

 
 
 

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Post by Sunny Muriel » Tue, 20 Jul 1993 21:36:38




: >Why is everyone comparing whatever operating system with NT?

: All of the other smug replies aside...

: Windows currently claims an installed base of approximately 10,000,000 --
: that's millions folks -- and Microsoft convervatively plans on NT taking about
: 10% of that base, i.e. 1,000,000 machines.  By any account that is a shitload
: of machines. More than the entire installed base of all Unix machines together.

But not more than OS/2 : 3,000,000 and counting (in the 10 best selling utils of
June, and that's in two weeks!). Do we have 3/1 more OS/2 stuff than NT ?

It doesn't matter what NT _is_. People see NT as  Windows: the next
generation (Just two weeks ago, NewsWeek called NT - Win 3.1 successor!)

:       Brotzman's definition of "shitload":  any amount larger
:       than any one person wants to deal with.

: We can make all the cute remarks about "MS-DOG" and "Windoze" we like, and
: guess what, thousands of businesses are still going to generate billions of
: dollars of revenues using applications based on DOS and Windows.  Why?  Because
: it is cost-effective and easy.

: Personally, I love Linux, otherwise I wouldn't have spent the money on an
: additional 200-Megabyte hard drive just for Linux.  But I haven't wiped my
: MS-DOG disk because I like to be able to crank up Windows and Microsoft Word to
: do simple word-processing tasks for my consulting business.  I could do the
: work in twice the time in LaTeX, but why bother?  My customers expect
: performance, not a product done "right" in twice the time (by the way, I
: consider myself an expert in LaTeX, having written several style files and
: Megabytes of documents in LaTeX; MS Word is just easier for simple tasks).

: We of the academic world must come to grips with the simple fact that it is the
: business world that really drives computer technology.  Unix vendors can make
: a buck from government and university systems, but until they have the
: installed application base that a business needs, they are going to continue
: being intimidated by Microsoft with their enormous market share.


: -- Hughes STX                         DECNET:    NDADSA::BROTZMAN

: --

: -- Hughes STX                         DECNET:    NDADSA::BROTZMAN

 
 
 

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Post by Bob Mye » Tue, 20 Jul 1993 21:56:02


Did anyone read last week's ComputerWorld article about Sun and Intergraph?
Says that they're (yep, these two companies) are planning to port NT to a
system based upon the UltraSparc chip.

Looks like we're in for a rocky future...

-bob

p.s.  Anyone catch the "OUTLAND" comic strip series regarding Bill the Gates?
I found yesterday's strip rather amusing in a way...

 
 
 

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Post by John Wiggi » Wed, 21 Jul 1993 05:35:53



>Sun alone has a installed base of nearly 1 million SPARC boxes (not

Maybe 1 million Suns. Not 1 million SPARCS. Biiiiigggg Difference.

Quote:>counting Solaris for Intel here).

Solaris for intel cant be counted because sales can be measured in the
dozens, not 10Millions.

Quote:>The ability of Windows NT to hoard up installed base is by no means
>proven.  Remember the last time Mr. Gates talked about "the most
>important program ever written?".  The trade rags howled about it.
>Everyone talked about it.  Nobody bought.

Yeah, but that was then. This is now. We would all like to see
MS bomb. but it isn't likely.

Quote:>Microsoft has market share in tiny machines.  That does not make
>up the entire computer industry.  E.g. when IBM used to have sales
>of 60 billion, only 2 billion used to come from the PC world.

where have you been? WHEN ibm had a 60/2 ratio, mainframes WERE what drove
the industry. However, if you compare COMBINED pc UNIT sales (Apple,
IBM, dell, compaq, etc) with COMBINED large system UNIT sales the numbers
are quite different. Different enough that Computer Associates, once
the largest software developer in the world (They were big on unix and
mainframe software) is WAY behind microsoft. Tiny machines. Big bucks.

Quote:>The PC world gets media attention, that does not make it the only
>game in the computer industry.  The Unix industry is very firmly
>entrenched as the inheritor of the mainframe shakedown.  Even if
>Windows NT is great at beating off OS/2 and Unix and the Mac on
>the PC mindset, it will still leave the Unix industry holding around
>$50 billion of sales a year right now.

Hmmm. I thought novell was the inheritor of the mainframe shakedown.
>        -ans.
>--


 
 
 

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Post by Per Abrahams » Wed, 21 Jul 1993 08:25:39



>Sun alone has a installed base of nearly 1 million SPARC boxes


John> Maybe 1 million Suns. Not 1 million SPARCS. Biiiiigggg Difference.

765.000 SPARC
815.000 Total

(June '93 numbers)

 
 
 

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Post by Scott Barm » Wed, 21 Jul 1993 07:41:18




>>Why is everyone comparing whatever operating system with NT?

>All of the other smug replies aside...

>Windows currently claims an installed base of approximately 10,000,000 --
>that's millions folks -- and Microsoft convervatively plans on NT taking about
>10% of that base, i.e. 1,000,000 machines.  By any account that is a shitload
>of machines. More than the entire installed base of all Unix machines together.

Then again, many of those alleged Windoze users got their software the
same way I did: buy a machine with it already bundled.  Windoze makes a
great game environment.  I love playing MineSweeper!!  :-)  Other than
that, I have little use for it.

Quote:>We can make all the cute remarks about "MS-DOG" and "Windoze" we like, and
>guess what, thousands of businesses are still going to generate billions of
>dollars of revenues using applications based on DOS and Windows.  Why?  Because
>it is cost-effective and easy.

Because when it came time to do something on that type of platform,
every company that had a chance fell down and couldn't get up!  I don't
think the folks at SCO understand what they had compared to NT or the
potential of NT to move forward and capture a market, like they should
have.

Quote:>We of the academic world must come to grips with the simple fact that it is the
>business world that really drives computer technology.  Unix vendors can make
>a buck from government and university systems, but until they have the
>installed application base that a business needs, they are going to continue
>being intimidated by Microsoft with their enormous market share.

Just remember, M$ will fail like IBM failed.  It may take some time, but
they'll do themselves in!  (I hope)

--
scott barman    | Mets Mailing List (feed the following into your shell):

                |            subscribe
 Let's Go Mets! |            !

 
 
 

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Post by Mark A. Dav » Wed, 21 Jul 1993 23:40:40




>>Microsoft has market share in tiny machines.  That does not make
>>up the entire computer industry.  E.g. when IBM used to have sales
>>of 60 billion, only 2 billion used to come from the PC world.
>where have you been? WHEN ibm had a 60/2 ratio, mainframes WERE what drove
>the industry. However, if you compare COMBINED pc UNIT sales (Apple,
>IBM, dell, compaq, etc) with COMBINED large system UNIT sales the numbers
>are quite different. Different enough that Computer Associates, once
>the largest software developer in the world (They were big on unix and
>mainframe software) is WAY behind microsoft. Tiny machines. Big bucks.
>>The PC world gets media attention, that does not make it the only
>>game in the computer industry.  The Unix industry is very firmly
>>entrenched as the inheritor of the mainframe shakedown.  Even if
>>Windows NT is great at beating off OS/2 and Unix and the Mac on
>>the PC mindset, it will still leave the Unix industry holding around
>>$50 billion of sales a year right now.
>Hmmm. I thought novell was the inheritor of the mainframe shakedown.

The computer world is NOT black and white.  It is NOT Mainframe vs. PC's.
We use neither here, and are quite happy.  There is a large market in
supermicros serving multiple users under real OS's.  There are mixtures of
small and large machines that make systems.  There ARE many large machines-
not leftovers from some ancient age, real, new, rational installations.  The
point is:  there are a LOT more choices today.  It is hardly fair to say
that one choice is BETTER than another or that one choice is DEAD without
knowing what the needs of each organization are.  
--
  /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\
  | Mark A. Davis    | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 |

  \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/
 
 
 

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Post by Stephen Tweed » Fri, 23 Jul 1993 07:44:01




>>The ability of Windows NT to hoard up installed base is by no means
>>proven.  Remember the last time Mr. Gates talked about "the most
>>important program ever written?".  The trade rags howled about it.
>>Everyone talked about it.  Nobody bought.
> Yeah, but that was then. This is now. We would all like to see
> MS bomb. but it isn't likely.

True.  I recently saw an article in the UK computer press about a
local government council who had decided to ditch Unix in favour of NT
on a LARGE local network.  They explained:

        "The Council's IT strategy over the past five years has been
to downsize to Unix.  But... market share and application availability
are more important that technical superiority."

I nearly choked on that one.  If MS can get corporate customers to
make decisions like this, their marketing department must have
headhunted Gandalf.

Cheers,
 Stephen.
---

Department of Computer Science, Edinburgh University, Scotland.

 
 
 

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Post by Matthew Roderic » Fri, 23 Jul 1993 22:47:10




>Hmmm. I thought novell was the inheritor of the mainframe shakedown.

But Novell is  UNIX.

--
Matthew Roderick                                                Read & Enjoy.
B2 Developments                                       +44 [0]782 771000 x3241
ICL.                Spelling & typing errors have been left for orthentisity.
--

 
 
 

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Post by John Wiggi » Sat, 24 Jul 1993 04:44:45





>>Hmmm. I thought novell was the inheritor of the mainframe shakedown.

>But Novell is  UNIX.

Maybe soon, but not yet. Novell has alot more Netware out there
than UnixWare.

- John Wiggins

---------------------------------------------------------------------
"My opinions are my own, blah blah blah...."

 
 
 

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Post by Mark Eva » Tue, 27 Jul 1993 21:29:29


: Then again, many of those alleged Windoze users got their software the
: same way I did: buy a machine with it already bundled.  Windoze makes a
: great game environment.  I love playing MineSweeper!!  :-)  Other than
: that, I have little use for it.

Try asking the seller any remotely technical questions and watch how they
react.

 
 
 

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Post by Mark Eva » Tue, 27 Jul 1993 21:32:48




: >>The ability of Windows NT to hoard up installed base is by no means
: >>proven.  Remember the last time Mr. Gates talked about "the most
: >>important program ever written?".  The trade rags howled about it.
: >>Everyone talked about it.  Nobody bought.

: > Yeah, but that was then. This is now. We would all like to see
: > MS bomb. but it isn't likely.

: True.  I recently saw an article in the UK computer press about a
: local government council who had decided to ditch Unix in favour of NT
: on a LARGE local network.  They explained:

:       "The Council's IT strategy over the past five years has been
: to downsize to Unix.  But... market share and application availability
: are more important that technical superiority."

What market share for NT?

Me thinks a case of the people in suits taking advice from the
salespeople. Probably ignoring their own experts.

: I nearly choked on that one.  If MS can get corporate customers to
: make decisions like this, their marketing department must have
: headhunted Gandalf.