Can the Yggdrasil CD REALLY be this bad?!?

Can the Yggdrasil CD REALLY be this bad?!?

Post by Jordan K. Hubba » Wed, 23 Jun 1993 01:36:06



Quote:>    Shortly after the LGX alpha release started shipping, Jordan
>Hubbard announced his plans to do his own 386bsd/Linux CDROM, which I
>assume is still in the works.  I am not accusing Jordan of
>deliberately lying in order to clear a path for his product, but I do
>think readers should read his complaints with an awareness of this
>potential conflict of interest.  Also, for the sake of full

Actually, no conflict of interest exists.  I shelved plans for this
CDROM some time ago and have since gone on to work on a 386bsd only CD
for Walnut Creek.  I have no plans to compete with Adam, or in the
Linux arena, at all.  My criticisms are strictly those of a
dissatisfied customer, and there is no venal motive whatsoever.

Quote:>disclosure, I should mention that in my college days I worked for
>Jordan for about three months (he was the full time sysadmin for whom
>I and three other students worked).  I have had friendly contact with
>Jordan since then, and I believe that Jordan is basically a good guy.

Well, that's far friendlier than I would have been in response to the
broadsides I fired off.  Since we're being candid here, let me say
that I did break one of my own 'cardinal rules' of posting, which was
posting something while in the full heat of frustration.  I don't
necessarily feel that all the criticisms I leveled against Yggdrasil
were unwarranted, but I could certainly have posed them a little less
confrontationally.  Apologies.

But since I have Adam's ear, I might ask that his next release of
documentation be more oriented towards step-by-step problem resolution
and less towards describing third party packages.  Also, an index
would be really nice!  Thanks.

Quote:>    Also in the way of background, it is important to realize that
>the current release of LGX is a beta release.  The whole point of a
>beta release is that adventurous users are supposed to find, report and,
>occasionally even fix bugs.  If you're not so adventurous, wait for

Understood.  That's why even a small acknowledgement from you that
you'd received my mail would have been appreciated (and probably would
have staved this whole thing off altogether).  I agree that the format
of my message didn't make it all that obvious that it was a bug
report, but a quick read would have shown you that I was bringing up
the kind of 'I tried this and it broke' information you're soliciting
for the beta.

Quote:>    Since Jordan didn't identify what kind of SCSI controller, CDROM
>drive or hard disk drive he is using, I cannot respond specifically
>to this problem, which was not mentioned in Jordan's original letter.

This has since been confirmed in followups.  I could have sworn I
mentioned the fact that I was using a 1742 in my message.  Yes, I did.

Quote:>    If you install the beta release, you definitely can build a
> new kernel without errors by typing:
>                    cd /usr/src/linux
>                    make

Not so.  Try configuring it for your particular configuration, first.
I did the make dep and the make clean, too.  No workie.

Quote:>    This is true.  When people have called about this, I've
>offered to mail them a floppy with the 0.99.7A+ kernel source tree and

Ok.  If you can point me at a newer source tree somewhere for ftp,
that doesn't entail wading through the MCC or SLS releases, I'd be
more than happy to take you up on this kind offer of assistance.
Or you can mail me a floppy.  Your choice.

Quote:>    Emacs runs fine both in character mode and as a window under
>X.  What is true is that somehow some of the byte-compiled lisp files
>on the CD were corrupted.  If you use emacs simply as a text editor,
>you generally won't notice this, but you will if you live in emacs.  I

Well, it's not just a question of 'living in emacs' - try asking for
info, as any novice user would do after reading the tutorial.

When can we expect to see the production release?

                                Jordan
--

 
 
 

Can the Yggdrasil CD REALLY be this bad?!?

Post by Keith Smi » Thu, 01 Jul 1993 10:45:08





>> :      SCSI timeouts for the adaptec + CDROM are still being investigated
>> : with 0.99pl10. In the meantime, reduce the bus time clock through your
>> : bios setup (if your bios allows).

>> Can you give me a little more detail about this?  I'm getting occasional
>> SCSI HD timeouts with an Adaptec 1542B + Maxtor 1.2GB Panther drive.
>    This is partly the setup I have (with a Texel CD-ROM on the SCSI).

                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^

I have one of these too.  I think they have SERIOUS SCSI protocall
problems. On boot you get a bunch of ioctl errors, and heavy usage on
_ANY_ SCSI card I have tried will lock the system tighter than a drum.

When I tried the thing under SCO it reset the SCSI tape and disks on the
same strand, and published a SLEW of SCSI read errors on _OTHER_
devices.  I think the damn thing is chirping all over the bus.

I think I'm gonna find some time and call TEXEL and see if they plan on
fixing the darn thing, or if I should by a TEXEL bus card and sell it to
some DOSOID.
--

Digital Designs      BBS 1-919-423-4216            Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201
Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ...

 
 
 

Can the Yggdrasil CD REALLY be this bad?!?

Post by Keith Smi » Thu, 01 Jul 1993 10:39:48


Boy, Your talking pretty tough about _BETA_ software here...


Quote:>First off, with my 486/33 EISA system using an Adaptec 1742A

                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Quote:>controller in enhanced mode and using the Yggdrasil Beta Test Release
>CD, here were my rather unpleasant experiences:

>1.  The kernel supplied falls over very frequently with SCSI errors,
>    where the controller times out and hangs completely during the install.
>    Perhaps it works on the more common IDE drives, in which case this is not
>    a problem for the majority, but it was certainly a cause for concern
>    to me.  4 install tries were necessary to get it to run all the way
>    through.  This was, in any case, by far the least of my problems.

Same Same, Note however that everything ran smooth as silk and installed
absolutely clean when I used a WD7000FASST2 card instead of an AHA1742A

Also true of an install from an ST-02 card.

Tried the adaptec controller in Enhancend and Emulation modes.  Barf
Barf.

Oh,  BTW the AHA1742A barfed running a SCSI tape drive attempting to
install SCO 3.2.4 too.  I think there are some firmware problems or
programming miscue's with the '1742, all over the place.  I was not
impressed with this card. I may have to replace it with a DPT.
--

Digital Designs      BBS 1-919-423-4216            Hope Mills, NC 28348-2201
Somewhere in the Styx of North Carolina ...

 
 
 

Can the Yggdrasil CD REALLY be this bad?!?

Post by Dave Bra » Mon, 05 Jul 1993 06:39:29


Quote:>>        This is partly the setup I have (with a Texel CD-ROM on the SCSI).
>                                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^

>I have one of these too.  I think they have SERIOUS SCSI protocall
>problems. On boot you get a bunch of ioctl errors, and heavy usage on
>_ANY_ SCSI card I have tried will lock the system tighter than a drum.

>When I tried the thing under SCO it reset the SCSI tape and disks on the
>same strand, and published a SLEW of SCSI read errors on _OTHER_
>devices.  I think the damn thing is chirping all over the bus.

>I think I'm gonna find some time and call TEXEL and see if they plan on
>fixing the darn thing, or if I should by a TEXEL bus card and sell it to
>some DOSOID.
>--

Texel continues to claim that they are fixing it - If you got the drive before january, call them - they did do a partial fix for the SCSI disconnect probs then - since I haven't called in a while, they might have a complete fix by now...

This stuff causes probs in any multitasking environmant - OS/2, NT, Linux, BSD,
etc...

<roland>

 
 
 

Can the Yggdrasil CD REALLY be this bad?!?

Post by Carl J. Eiche » Mon, 05 Jul 1993 15:33:35




: >
: > :        SCSI timeouts for the adaptec + CDROM are still being investigated
: > : with 0.99pl10. In the meantime, reduce the bus time clock through your
: > : bios setup (if your bios allows).
: >
: > Can you give me a little more detail about this?  I'm getting occasional
: > SCSI HD timeouts with an Adaptec 1542B + Maxtor 1.2GB Panther drive.
:       This is partly the setup I have (with a Texel CD-ROM on the SCSI).
: No, I can't give you more details mainly because I'm still gathering them.
: I've put printk's, status checks, and collision detection variables in
: the scsi drivers.  Unfortunately, it is a painstakingly slow process since
: I have to be judicious which detection mechansim is activated, else I run
: smack in the middle of Heisenberg's Principal.  Stay tuned....

The timeouts are the result of a problem with the disconnect/reconnect
logic in Texel's firmware versions 1.09 and earlier.  This also causes
a problem for OS/2.  They state that Texels with firmware versions
through 1.09 won't work if the Texel is not the only device on the SCSI
controller.  I was told that a new version of firmware will be available
shortly to fix this problem.
--

                                            BIX: ceichert