Very Computer

Recently I found Linux on a local BBS.  Being anxious to run a Un*x box

for some time I quickly dl it.  After reading all the FAQ's and the Docs

that came with it; and finally finding this net mail conference on Linux
I
am no closer to running it than I was a month ago.  What's the point of
an
operating system that is so complex to learn unless you are in 'the
club'
so to speak?  Call this asking for it, but I am no simpleton when it
comes
to computers, in fact I am quite competent.  But I think Linux will not

reach it's full potential until it's as easy to install as DOS (dare I
say
that?).  I can only boot Linux from floppy, when I try to run *any*
utilities I get bizzare undocumented or poorly documented error
messages.
 I have been running DOS for years, and feel that one month is too long
to
take installing an OS!  Any suggetions?  How about some quality
documentation that non-engineers can understand?  The public needs a
powerful operating system like Linux, lets try to make it that way.

 * Origin: 24th Street Exchange - A BBS Since 1983 * (916) 451-7179
(1:203/52)

Quote:>Recently I found Linux on a local BBS.  Being anxious to run a Un*x box

>for some time I quickly dl it.  After reading all the FAQ's and the Docs

>that came with it; and finally finding this net mail conference on Linux
>I
>am no closer to running it than I was a month ago.  What's the point of
>an
>operating system that is so complex to learn unless you are in 'the
>club'
>so to speak?  Call this asking for it, but I am no simpleton when it

[stuff deleted]

That's funny, did you download an SLS distribution?  I downloaded
SLS1.0 and got it running in less than an hour.  The SLS readme is
fairly good.  All you do is make a partition, make a filesystem,
and then give a doinstall command.  I have never had any experience
with unix system administration or installing another operating system
before, but everything went without a hitch.  Great work everyone!

- Yonik Seeley

: >Recently I found Linux on a local BBS.  Being anxious to run a Un*x box
: >
: >for some time I quickly dl it.  After reading all the FAQ's and the Docs
: > [more stuff deleted]
: [stuff deleted]

: That's funny, did you download an SLS distribution?  I downloaded
: SLS1.0 and got it running in less than an hour.  The SLS readme....
Yes, the readme is good, but it was a good thing I've worked with UN*X
for a long time because /bin/touch was missing and logging in was
impossible.  /usr/bin/touch was there, and since I knew what to look
for the fix was quick: it only took me a few days to figure out what
was missing.

This is not a complaint -- I was amazed at how easy the SLS installation
was.  However, the "freeness" of the whole of linux cuts both ways:
yes I can get it free, but the person I got it from may have munged
one thing or another.  For instance, huge chunks of /usr/man are missing
in the distribution I got.

With commercial software, someone is paid to make sure all the pieces
are there; with linux, it takes some looking to find all the pieces,
and you have to have a pretty good idea what pieces there are.  This
aspect of linux is one that bothers me, and it's one that I would like
to be able to contribute to resolving.

DON'T FLAME ME -- THIS IS NOT A COMPLAINT

Suppose a case like Y.C. Seeley might have encountered: a friend gives
you a stack of floppies, says "Here's Linux -- just boot from a1 and
away you go!", and promptly leaves himself.  The friend had 0.99pl1,
added a few things to it, deleted a few things, changed a few permissions
in an "unsuitable" way, then dup'd his system.  A computer literate DOS
user uses fdformat to create a novel partitioning scheme (because as
a DOS user, he or she might have no idea what traditionally goes into
the root partition versus what goes into /usr).  Now the partitioning
breaks hard links that sysinstall expected to make, and linux never
comes up.

Or, some utilities were compiled with libc.so.4.1 and others with ...4.2,
but the friend never happened to hit thos utilities that would break.
Perhaps farfetched, perhaps not....

If I ever get to the point of believing that I understand what it takes
to know when I have a completely coherent and complete linux (all the
libararies match all the binaries, all the man pages match all the
commands, ...), I'll gladly post a checklist or something.  If anyone
can help me to compile such a list, I'll gladly collect and repost.
Meanwhile, maybe the Yggdrasil CD-ROM should be recommended to

Thanks for your patience.

--
 "If you've always done it that way, it's probably wrong"
 --------------------------------------attributed to Edward Kettering

In comp.os.linux you write:

Quote:>Recently I found Linux on a local BBS.

Well, what package did you download? There is a package called TAMU-Release
which is said to be wonderful easy to install, there is the SLS-Release
which I used, and which is not quite as easy to install, but very complete,
and there are boot/root-disk-combo which help a unix-crack to install it
as he likes without being hindered by an installation-routine.

I would say you'd better get the tamu-release if you have not had any
experiences with a complex OS before.

(DOS is not an OS but a program-launcher :-))

Quote:>Being anxious to run a Un*x box
>for some time I quickly dl it.  After reading all the FAQ's and the Docs
>that came with it; and finally finding this net mail conference on Linux
>I am no closer to running it than I was a month ago.  What's the point of
>an operating system that is so complex to learn unless you are in 'the
>club' so to speak?  

Well, a multiuser-multitasking-OS does require systemadministration, and
therefore must be more hard to administrate than a program-launcher,
but there are ways to make it less hard for the beginner. NeXT has a very
nice interface, and the SCO has got besides many bugs and annoying limitations
a nice sysadmin-tool.

We should make such a tool for Linux as well - the menu of the SLS-Package
is one step into that direction, but since only beginners use it, it
is not very much worked on.

After using such tools for some time you will want to have a shell instead,
because the limitations are rather hard.

Quote:>Call this asking for it, but I am no simpleton when it
>comes to computers, in fact I am quite competent.

The fact that you say boldly so makes you win most certainly :-)

Quote:> But I think Linux will not reach it's full potential until it's
> as easy to install as DOS (dare I say that?).  

Installing DOS does take more than a month too when you never before had
anything to do with it and had years of unix-experience, because the
silly-limitations are hard to deal with, the batch-language in the
1970-style is almost unusable, and the interaction of DOS5.0, QEMM,
WINDOWS and another TSR are not very helpful to optimize your system.

I loose hairs everytime I have to kill myself over DOS, which I must
use because I program for it. HATE, HATE, HATE!

You even cannot set something at the end of your path without writing a
batchscript for this, because the shell does not know how to deal with
enviroment-variables - can this be true? This is not beta dos 0.01?
No, this will still be the same in DOS 6.0, after 10 (!) years of
using this *ing thing!

PATH=%PATH;addeditem does only work in a batchfile, see alt.hackers for
an even worse example, where you need TWO (!) batchfiles because of
DOS-Stupidity.

(It was something like:
        for %%a in (*.*) do more <%a

and you had to make it with
        for %%a in (*.*) do call display.bat %a
where display.bat contained the more<%1.

DOS wastes my time so often I could shoot the designer if I get hold of
him!

Quote:>I can only boot Linux from floppy, when I try to run *any*
>utilities I get bizzare undocumented or poorly documented error
>messages.

hehehe, ever tried DIR /SOD or something like it?

Parse error 4

What do you think this means to me?

DOS choked on it as I *on DOS.

Ever programmed in clipper? You have to know what dos-error-4 is, or
dos-error-5 - why the * do they use these numbers?

Can you tell me why I have an 8MB-386 with MSDOS-5.0 and still can only
use less than 600KB if not using third-party-qemm (630KB) ?

Quote:> I have been running DOS for years, and feel that one month is too long
>to take installing an OS!  

I installed linux in 30min the first time (more than 3 hours I needed to
install os/2 because of the silly installation routine which needs to
read 12Disks before installing the mouse-driver), it was one year ago
with a boot/root-disk-combo.

One has to read the docs very carefully though...

Quote:> Any suggetions?  How about some quality
>documentation that non-engineers can understand?  

There are (some) FAQ, there is a Linux-for-the-msdos-users-guide, there is a
german 'Handbuch' available, maybe one should translate it to english.

Quote:>The public needs a
>powerful operating system like Linux, lets try to make it that way.

Yes, we should improve the tamu- and SLS-release.

Some are working on a network-release of the SLS-System, so that all you need
is to plug a ne2000 in your computer, connect it to the internet, boot from
a disk, and the installation-script gets the data not from disks but through
the internet from a site of your choice (tsx-11.mit.edu or nic.funet.fi),
you do not have to do much more than wait until it is finished :-)

I want to make a bootdisk, which enables you to read a linux-installation
from a tape, but I did not succeed yet (did not have the time to stress it
yet)...

Cheers, Michael Will

|> Recently I found Linux on a local BBS.  Being anxious to run a Un*x box
|>
|> for some time I quickly dl it.  After reading all the FAQ's and the Docs
|>
|> that came with it; and finally finding this net mail conference on Linux
|> I
|> am no closer to running it than I was a month ago.  What's the point of
|> an
|> operating system that is so complex to learn unless you are in 'the
|> club'
|> so to speak?  Call this asking for it, but I am no simpleton when it
|> comes
|> to computers, in fact I am quite competent.  But I think Linux will not
|>
|> reach it's full potential until it's as easy to install as DOS (dare I
|> say
|> that?).  I can only boot Linux from floppy, when I try to run *any*
|> utilities I get bizzare undocumented or poorly documented error
|> messages.
|>  I have been running DOS for years, and feel that one month is too long
|> to
|> take installing an OS!  Any suggetions?  How about some quality
|> documentation that non-engineers can understand?  The public needs a
|> powerful operating system like Linux, lets try to make it that way.
|>
|>
|>  * Origin: 24th Street Exchange - A BBS Since 1983 * (916) 451-7179
|> (1:203/52)
|>

--

Hello,

You shouldn't give up on Linux.  I have several years experience
with many flavors of Unix and Linux is a *very* impressive system.

Your problem is not with Linux but that you lack a certain core, or
perhaps critical mass, of knowledge.  It's much like the "new
driver" syndrome:  new drivers (say kids 16 years old) always think
they're *good* drivers.  It's not until they actually become
reasonably competent drivers that they find they were in fact awful
drivers.  Likewise, it won't be until you know a bit more about
Unix that you'll understand how much better it is than DOS (really,
DOS is not an operating system but rather the lack of an operating
system - you'll soon know what I mean).

For now, charge ahead, install Linux, and get a good intro book on
Unix and X windows.  It will definitely not be time wasted.

Cheers, -Jim

 __________________________________________________________


  University of California         |  Phone (805)893-8475
  Santa Barbara, CA 93106          |  Fax           -2578

In your reply concerning giving up on Linux to another, you mention
getting a unix book or two to help you start out.  Several times I have
seen this stated and keep getting frustrated by people who obviously
know what they are talking about, and have read some of the books we
might buy, but never suggest to us what THEY think is an appropriate
book to get for the subject we are discussing.  I have asked about books
from those who replied to my earlier post, so I have some books to go
looking for, but that doesn't tell everyone in the net who might be
lurking.  

So can we please start suggesting at least 1 book when you tell people
to get a book?

Thanks!
Buddy.

Quote:>In your reply concerning giving up on Linux to another, you mention
>getting a unix book or two to help you start out.  Several times I have
>seen this stated and keep getting frustrated by people who obviously
>know what they are talking about, and have read some of the books we
>might buy, but never suggest to us what THEY think is an appropriate
>book to get for the subject we are discussing.  I have asked about books
>from those who replied to my earlier post, so I have some books to go
>looking for, but that doesn't tell everyone in the net who might be
>lurking.  

>So can we please start suggesting at least 1 book when you tell people
>to get a book?

OK, OK, OK. Here's an idea.  Somewhere or other on the net is a list of
good unix books grouped by subject.  I think it originates from c.u.questions
or something.  Anyway, what if we added this to some of the Linux sites along
with the faq and other such.  It really wouldn't become outdated for quite a
while and could get people started on the right track.  

Also, since the poster looks to be fidonet I can dig around for a copy and
email it if need be.  Does anyone know of a mail-ftp server that can grab it
though, to save us all the work.

--
-Matt, still looking for sigs in all the wrong places. :)

Linux --the best thing ever to hit a PC.

Quote:>Recently I found Linux on a local BBS.  Being anxious to run a Un*x box
>for some time I quickly dl it.  After reading all the FAQ's and the Docs
>that came with it; and finally finding this net mail conference on Linux
>I am no closer to running it than I was a month ago.  What's the point of
>an operating system that is so complex to learn unless you are in 'the
>club' so to speak?  Call this asking for it, but I am no simpleton when it
>comes to computers, in fact I am quite competent.  But I think Linux will not
>reach it's full potential until it's as easy to install as DOS (dare I
>say that?).  I can only boot Linux from floppy, when I try to run *any*
>utilities I get bizzare undocumented or poorly documented error
>messages.
>I have been running DOS for years, and feel that one month is too long
>to take installing an OS!  Any suggetions?  How about some quality
>documentation that non-engineers can understand?  The public needs a
>powerful operating system like Linux, lets try to make it that way.

I found out about Linux several months ago. Since entering grad school,
I've been forced to deal with Unix machines for the first time. All of
my previous experience before this year was with DOS machine. I also
consider myself quite knowledgeable about DOS. However, I recognized that
Unix itself is quite complicated, and that any non-commercial software,
supported by a wide group of people around the world is going to lack
some cohesion, and the 1-2-3 installation that DOS users are used to.

I prepared for this by reading this newsgroup every day for about
two weeks before I even started to download the SLS distribution.
Then, once I started installing it, I took it slowly - rather than
trying to get everything in one night, I did it one step at a time.
Rather than posting 1,000 messages about my problems, I waited until
I saw it discussed on the newsgroup, or saw that someone else has a
similar configuration, and then emailed that person, asking them how
they solved the problem, if they had the same one. By doing all of this,
I was able to:
1. installed linux over a 2 week period, in the spare 1 or 2 hours
   per day that i have.
2. learned about the system administration aspects of unix that i
   would need during the course of setting up linux
3. spared the newsgroup from dozens of messages. other new linux'ers
   could do themselves and the newsgroup a favor by just reading the
   newsgroup for a few days, and seeing the answers to their problems
   come up, without posting any messages and increasing the traffic
   beyond the almost-too-difficult to read number of messages going
   by each day.
4. learned enough about linux and some of my own hardware problems
   (too slow rams), to start planning how i will fix my hardware
   problems, and how i want to go about reinstalling everything later
   on.

I wouldn't expect to install any large application or OS overnight.
I think that there are a number of problems in Linux that can take
quite a few days to solve (ie - i can't find anywhere that it says
that bus mice need to be on irq 5 by default). However, if you
methodically track down problems, read all the FAQs, pick yourself
up a unix book, and read the newsgroup thoroughly for a few weeks,
saving important posts, you should be able to get linux up and
running in a 3-7 days, even if you know nothing about unix/linux
previous to these preparations.

Now that I've gone through the whole process, and know where to
find a lot of the information, I think I could probably install
linux again, on any system, in a day or two at most.

You say that you've gotten nowhere in a month. I find it hard to
believe that you could have a problem, post that problem, or send
email to people out there, and not get back a single helpful
response.

I don't think anyone out there will claim that Linux is the
simplest thing in the world to install. But when you get it
up and working, you'll feel pretty good about it. More than
that, you'll have learned quite a bit about Linux, Unix, and
your hardware in the process.

I wish you the best of luck, and suggest that if anyone else
out there is having problems, that you follow the guidelines
I mentioned above, as well as those posted in the FAQ, meta-FAQ,
etc.

And if anyone is totally stuck, email me and I'll try to help.
I'm just learning it myself, but whatever help I can give, I
will, even if that just means pointing you to the right
README file.

It's misc.books.technical.  I think there is a pointer to it in the FAQ.

For those who missed it, or those on fidonet, here is a repost:

Archive-name: books/unix
Last-modified: March 26, 1993
Version 1.8

    ------------------------------------------------------------
       [misc.books.technical]   A Concise Guide to UNIX Books
    ------------------------------------------------------------

** Compiled by: Samuel Ko (k...@sfu.ca)

** This is a good selection of the "best" books and documentation on
   UNIX and related areas.  The selection is based on i) recommendations
   from netnews readers, ii) the US/Canada sales figures, and iii) a bit
   of my own preference.

** Subject areas covered:
   A. General Unix Texts
   B. Shells
   C. Unix Editors
   D. Networking and Communications
   E. System Administration
   F. Unix Security
   G. Programming
   H. TeX
   I. X Window System
   J. Dictionaries / Glossaries
   K. Other Lists

** This guide is intended to be concise and to emphasize more on recent
   publications, so it is far from exhaustive. For other Unix bibliographies,
   please read section K - Other Lists.

** THANKS to all who have helped in improving this guide. However, to save
   some bandwidth, I do not want to include a long list of acknowledgment.
   I do sincerely thank each and every one of you who has contributed to
   this compilation in one way or the other.

   [[ BTW, from your responses since this list was first posted ...
     The best publisher:
                        O'Reilly & Associates
     The most-recommended books:
         Unix Network Programming by Richard Stevens
         Unix System Administration Handbook by Nemeth, Snyder and Seebass
         The Whole Internet - User's Guide & Catalog by Ed Krol ]]

** If you think there are some other really good Unix books, please let me
   know. Besides any comments, suggestions and flames will be very much
   appreciated.

** I will try to update and post this list regularly. The latest version
   is also obtainable by anonymous ftp from pit-manager.mit.edu (in
   /pub/usenet/news.answers/books). If you do not have ftp or netnews access
   you can get it by email from mail-ser...@pit-manager.mit.edu and the body
   of your request should be   send usenet/news.answers/books/unix  .

  A. General Unix Texts
*************************

~~   (more or less) for beginning / intermediate users -

1. Title: The Unix Operating System
   Author: Kaare Christian
   Publisher: Wiley
   Edition: 2nd ed. 1988
   ISBN: 0-471-84781-X
   Comment: A classic overview of Unix commands ... good in coverage ...

2. Title: A Practical Guide to the Unix System V Release 4
   Author: Mark Sobell
   Publisher: Benjamin Cummings
   Edition: 2nd ed. 1991
   ISBN: 0-8053-7560-0
   Comment: A very good tutorial / reference book ...

3. Title: The Waite Group's Unix System V Primer
   Authors:  Mitchell Waite, Donald Martin and Stephen Prata
   Publisher: Sams
   Edition: 2nd ed. 1992
   ISBN: 0-672-30194-6
   Comment: **** Highly Recommended  ****
            A very good hand-holding tutorial-type book for Unix/SVR4 ...

4. Title: Mastering SunOS
   Authors: Brent Heslop and David Angell
   Publisher: Sybex
   Edition: 1990
   ISBN: 0-89588-683
   Comment: A good, comprehensive hand-on text to SunOS and OpenWindows ...

5. Title: Peter Norton's Guide to Unix
   Authors: Peter Norton and Harley Hahn
   Publisher: Bantam Computer
   Edition: 1991
   ISBN: 0-553-35260-1
   Comment: Good coverage ... A good introduction for beginners (especially
            those accustomed to DOS) ...

6. Title: Unix System V Release 4: An Introduction
   Authors: Kenneth Rosen, Richard Rosinski and James Farber
   Publisher: McGraw Hill
   Edition: 1990
   ISBN: 0-07-881552-5
   Comment: A very comprehensive text targeted to novice users ...

7. Title: Guide to the Unix Desktop
   Authors: Chris Negus and Larry Schumer
   Publisher: Unix Press
   Edition: 1992
   ISBN: 1-56205-114-8
   Comment: A fine tutorial / reference text on SVR4.2 ...

8. Title: Learning Unix
   Author: James Gardner
   Publisher: Sams
   Edition: 1991
   ISBN: 0-672-30001-X
   Comment: With disks containing MSDOS simulation of Unix (MKS Tools) ...
            A good tutorial / reference book for those without constant
            access to Unix ...

9. Title: Life with Unix - A Guide for Everyone
   Authors: Don Libes and Sandy Ressler
   Publisher: Prentice Hall
   Edition: 1990
   ISBN: 0-13-536657-7
   Comment: **** Highly Recommended ****
            An everything-you-want-to-know-about-Unix book ... It includes
            info you might not find elsewhere ...
            " This book is the "other" book about Unix ... a study in
              reading between the lines - which is very much what learning
              UNIX is like. "

~~   (more or less) for intermediate / advanced users -

10. Title: Unix for the Impatient
    Authors: Paul Abrahams and Bruce Larson
    Publisher: Addison Wesley
    Edition: 1992
    ISBN: 0-201-55703-7
    Comment:  **** Highly Recommended ****
              A comprehensive and in-depth reference to Unix ...
              " a handbook you can use both as a manual to learn UNIX and as
                a ready reference for fast answers to specific UNIX questions."

11. Title: Unix Power Tools
    Authors: Jerry Peek, Tim O'Reilly and Mike Loukides
    Publisher: O'Reilly / Bantam
    Edition: 1993
    ISBN: 0-553-35402-7
    Comment: **** Highly Recommended ****
             Simply great!!!
             " [It] contains literally thousands of tips, scripts, and
               techniques that make using UNIX easier, more effective, and
               even more fun. "
             With a CD-ROM disk containing PD programs and shell scripts ...

12. Title: Unix System V Release 4: The Complete Reference
    Author: Stephen Coffin
    Publisher: McGraw Hall
    Edition: 1990
    ISBN: 0-07-881653-X
    Comment: Another good book on Unix fundamentals and related subjects ...

13. Title: Unix Desktop Guide to Tools
    Author: Pete Holsberg
    Publisher: Sams
    Edition: 1992
    ISBN: 0-672-30202-0
    Comment: A comprehensive guide to numerous Unix utilities ...

14. Title: Modern Unix
    Author: Alan Southerton
    Publisher: Wiley
    Edition: 1992
    ISBN: 0-471-54916-9
    Comment: Covering selected topics like shells, X Window, networking ...

15. Title: Unix in a Nutshell
    Authors: Daniel Gilly and O'Reilly staff
    Publisher: O'Reilly
    Edition: 2nd ed. 1992 (for System V and Solaris 2)
    ISBN: 1-56592-001-5
    Comment: **** Highly Recommended ****
             An excellent desktop reference to almost all Unix commands ...
             " a complete reference containing all commands and options, plus
               generous descriptions and examples that put the commands in
               context. "
             Also, an edition for 4.3. BSD ...

16. Title: The Frequently Asked Questions List
    Author: Ted Timar
    Edition: 92/12/04 (frequently)
    Comment: This is a multi-part list of often-asked Unix questions (with
             answers).  Read the postings on news.answers or get them by
             anonymous ftp from pit-manager.mit.edu (in /pub/usenet/
             news.answers/unix-faq) ...

17. Title: The Design of the Unix Operating System
    Author: Maurice Bach
    Publisher: Prentice Hall
    Edition: 1986
    ISBN: 0-13-201799-7
    Comment: An excellent reference on the internals of System V
             This book and the next one are indeed highly technical ... And
             if you just want a short case study on Unix, consult a good
             operating systems text like Modern Operating Systems by
             A. Tanenbaum or Operating System Concepts by A. Silberschatz,
             J. Peterson and P. Galvin.

18. Title: The Design and Implementation of the 4.3 BSD Unix Operating System
    Authors: S. Leffler, M. McKusick, M. Karels and J. Quarterman
    Publisher: Addison-Wesley
    Edition: 1990
    ISBN: 0-201-06196-1
    Comment: An authoritative description of the design of BSD Unix ...
             " It covers the internal structure of the 4.3BSD system and the
               concepts, data structures, and algorithms used in implementing
               the system facilities. "

  B. Shells
*************

1. Title: The Unix C Shell Field Guide
   Authors: Gail Anderson and Paul Anderson
   Publisher: Prentice Hall
   Edition: 1986
   ISBN: 0-13-937468-X
   Comment: The C-Shell Bible - everything you need to know to understand
            csh and use Unix effectively ...

2. Title: Unix C Shell - Desk Reference
   Author: Martin Arick
   Publisher: QED Technical
   Edition: 1992
   ISBN: 0-89435-328-4
   Comment: A more recent text on maximizing the use of C-Shell ...

3. Title: Unix Shell Programming
   Authors: Stephen Kochan and Patrick Wood
   Publisher: Hayden
   Edition: 1990
   ISBN: 0-672-48448-X
   Comment: **** Highly Recommended ****
            A classic on using and programming Bourne Shell (and Korn Shell)

4. Title: The Korn Shell Command and Programming Language
   Authors: Morris Bolsky and David Korn
   Publisher: Prentice Hall
   Edition: 1989
   ISBN: 0-13-516972-0
   Comment: The authoritative reference ...

5. ...

read more »

(McArthur E. Sandridge III) writes:

Quote:> >In your reply concerning giving up on Linux to another, you mention
> >getting a unix book or two to help you start out. . . etc.

I find the O'Reilly nutshell handbooks to be great. They have a book on  
just about any UNIX subject and they are all excellent. I have almost  
never felt the need for any other material on a subject that they have a  
book on. Their latest tome, "UNIX Power Tools" is a huge book with CDROM  
of all manner of basic and arcane tips for just about every aspect of  
command line unix. Highly recommended. The only non-O'Reilly book I  
consistently recommend is "Unix System Administration Handbook" by Nemeth,  
Synder and Seebass. This book, along with the System Administration,  
NFS/NIS, UUCP/Usenet and TCP/IP O'Reilly books will provide everything you  
will probably ever need to know about configuring and keeping running a  
unix system.

Keith Hollister
uunet!griz!keith
  - or -

Note: vested interest post. I work for SSC.

Ko's list ignores SSC's pocket-sized UNIX publications.  We have been
publishing pocket-sized references and tutorials for UNIX and C since
1983.  By pocket sized, they are 8-1/2" x 3-1/2" and range from an 8
page card to a 160 page book.

I don't claim that they are the only answer to UNIX documentation but
I do think they are worth mentioning.  For example, if you are using
elvis, SSC has a VI Reference and a VI tutorial that will be of great
help and cost you less that $10 for both.

If you are interested, you can request a catalog by sending e-mail to

as I am attempting to convine SSC management that Linux is real and SSC
should consider doing a Linux reference.

--
Phil Hughes - FYL - 8315 Lk City Wy NE - Suite 207 - Seattle, WA 98115
Phone: 206-526-2919 x74      Fax: 526-0803

As a satisfied holder of some of SSC's summaries, I can say that the
summaries are really helpful when you just need to remember what
the option to make package <x> do function <y> is.  Note that I'm
using the summaries, I've never tried their tutorials.  If I kept
the summaries closer I'd probably use them even more than I do now
(it goes in spurts - sometimes a couple of times a week, sometimes
I go for months without looking at them...

Note: I was given the summaries for free,  so I may not be completely
unbiased :-)

--
73 de Rusty Carruth, N7IKQ   P.O. Box 27001, Tempe, AZ 85285

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