Qt 0.97 released (C++ GUI toolkit with Motif look and feel)

Qt 0.97 released (C++ GUI toolkit with Motif look and feel)

Post by Warwick Allis » Fri, 14 Jun 1996 04:00:00




>Troll Tech is proud to relase a free version of Qt for the X Window
>System. This release, Qt 0.97, is free for non-commercial use on all
>operating systems that support the X Window System and includes the
>complete Qt source code for X.

             ^^^^^^^^^^^

IMO, this now makes Qt the best GUI toolkit for Unix programmers.  As an
example of what is possible, check out my Qt NetHack interface at:
http://student.uq.edu.au/~s002434/nhqt/ (includes screenshot).  Notice that
NetHack is a get-a-key oriented program, yet because of the strength of Qt,
I could write that interface - and it is platform independent (I haven't
checked myself, but I've had confirmation that it compiles file under FreeBSD).  
Qt is totally C++, so you are freed from all the intricacies of X11
programming and the lack of type checking in C-based systems such as XView,
Xt, and Motif; yet it is FAST - based on Xlib, NOT Motif, etc., but still
with the characteristic look and feel of Motif (actually, you can also set
it into "Windows" mode, in which case it uses MS-Windows style buttons etc).  

And, UNLIKE MOTIF, we can all make and use dynamic binaries - so your programs
are small and fast (Under 10K is possible for small programs, for example).

My personal favourite part of Qt is the excellent documentation - all
fully cross-referenced HTML - beats damned man section 3 any day!!

Check it out.

--
Warwick
--

/     * <- Comp Sci Department, McD: http://student.uq.edu.au/~s002434/mcl.html
\_.-._/    Univ. of Queensland, POV: http://student.uq.edu.au/~s002434/pov.html
     v     Brisbane, Australia. ME:  http://student.uq.edu.au/~s002434

 
 
 

Qt 0.97 released (C++ GUI toolkit with Motif look and feel)

Post by Wen-Chun N » Fri, 14 Jun 1996 04:00:00



> IMO, this now makes Qt the best GUI toolkit for Unix programmers.  As an

I think the attitude of Qt is making it a much better choice than
xforms and the rest that only distribute in binary. Even they charge
$40 for the source license, I still think they are a better buy
because it still has the edge over the slow Motif (read buggy) and
obsolete xview toolkits. The fits entirely in the Linux-GNU generation's
spirit.

 
 
 

Qt 0.97 released (C++ GUI toolkit with Motif look and feel)

Post by Arnt Gulbrandse » Fri, 14 Jun 1996 04:00:00



> I have to disagree strongly here.  Have you checked the license for
> non-commercial use ?  As I read that, you may do basically _nothing_
> with the library.  Worst of all, you may not change the source code
> and link your application to the changed library -- this is IMHO the
> exact opposite of the Linux-GNU `spirit' (if there is any such thing,
> the recent Lignux wars make me wonder).

On the contrary, you _can_ change the souce and link your application.
But you can't release your source, because then others could not
compile your program using the stock Qt distribution.

If you change Qt and want others to get the changes, there is only one
way: Give the patches to us, to add them to the stock distribution.

Quote:> For C++ GUI toolkits better fitting the free software philosophy,
> please check out wxWindows (http://www.aiai.ed.ac.uk/~jacs/wxwin.html)
> or `V' (both also recently announced on c.o.l.a).

Or yacl, http://www.cs.sc.edu/~srindhar/yacl.html.  All three are much
freer than Qt is, so if you care only about freedom, they're far
better candidates.

--Arnt

 
 
 

Qt 0.97 released (C++ GUI toolkit with Motif look and feel)

Post by Wolfram Glog » Fri, 14 Jun 1996 04:00:00


[Qt is now released with source...]

Quote:>> IMO, this now makes Qt the best GUI toolkit for Unix programmers.  As an
>The fits entirely in the Linux-GNU generation's
>spirit.

I have to disagree strongly here.  Have you checked the license for
non-commercial use ?  As I read that, you may do basically _nothing_
with the library.  Worst of all, you may not change the source code
and link your application to the changed library -- this is IMHO the
exact opposite of the Linux-GNU `spirit' (if there is any such thing,
the recent Lignux wars make me wonder).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining -- I commend the Qt authors
for releasing source.  But not everyone can afford the commercial
license to make good use of it.

For C++ GUI toolkits better fitting the free software philosophy,
please check out wxWindows (http://www.aiai.ed.ac.uk/~jacs/wxwin.html)
or `V' (both also recently announced on c.o.l.a).

Regards,
Wolfram.

 
 
 

Qt 0.97 released (C++ GUI toolkit with Motif look and feel)

Post by Warwick Allis » Sat, 15 Jun 1996 04:00:00




>[Qt is now released with source...]
>As I read [the license for non-commercial use], you may do basically _nothing_
>with the library.  Worst of all, you may not change the source code
>and link your application to the changed library -- this is IMHO the
>exact opposite of the Linux-GNU `spirit'...

Qt is C++, so if you need to hack at the library itself to accomplish
something, then it must be a low-level hack, or a bug fix.  Either way, if
it is genuinely useful, submit it back to TrollTech.  This is similar to the
way Linux works - you can hack at it all you like, but you really shouldn't
go making a variant of Linux:  you should submit the change through Linus to
incorporate into the official version for everyone to benefit.  This seems
to be working fine for Linux, which has FAR more need for people to hack at
the kernel sources than is needed for Qt.

Using the inheritance features of C++ you should be able to accomplish even
the most hacky results.  Witness my Qt NetHack which has to turn the event-
driven model on its head - I didn't go anywhere near the guts of Qt to do that.
You can easily extend the Qt library by creating your own subclasses of
existing interface components, and can freely distribute your new components.

If you write free software with Qt, you shouldn't be at all inconvenienced
by the licensing.  If you want to write commercial software, then it is
fair that you should have to purchase the commercial license.  But unlike
Motif, your USERS don't have to also buy a commercial license - they are
free to get their dynamic libraries, and update them, etc.  And hopefully,
if we can (and the licensing ensures we do) stick to just one version of
Qt, then we won't get problems with different users having different versions.

--
Warwick
--

/     * <- Comp Sci Department, McD: http://student.uq.edu.au/~s002434/mcl.html
\_.-._/    Univ. of Queensland, POV: http://student.uq.edu.au/~s002434/pov.html
     v     Brisbane, Australia. ME:  http://student.uq.edu.au/~s002434

 
 
 

Qt 0.97 released (C++ GUI toolkit with Motif look and feel)

Post by Wolfram Glog » Sat, 15 Jun 1996 04:00:00




>> Worst of all, you may not change the source code
>> and link your application to the changed library -- this is IMHO the
>> exact opposite of the Linux-GNU `spirit' (if there is any such thing,
>> the recent Lignux wars make me wonder).
>On the contrary, you _can_ change the souce and link your application.
>But you can't release your source, because then others could not
>compile your program using the stock Qt distribution.

So does this mean that the restrictions from the non-commercial
license do not apply if I don't distribute the Qt-based application ?
I have read it three times, and never saw it this way ("...covers
private use...").  Could you please clarify the text if this is true ?
Thanks.

Quote:>If you change Qt and want others to get the changes, there is only one
>way: Give the patches to us, to add them to the stock distribution.

That is very reasonable.  But I was thinking more specifically of the
following case: Say I think I've fixed a bug, and report the fix back.
You disagree, and reject the change.  Then I'm stuck and can't
continue to develop with the changed version.  (With a GNU package, I
_could_ always start my own derived version -- I would only do this as
the last resort, of course.)  That was all I wanted to point out.

Regards,
Wolfram.

 
 
 

Qt 0.97 released (C++ GUI toolkit with Motif look and feel)

Post by Arnt Gulbrandse » Sat, 15 Jun 1996 04:00:00





> >> Worst of all, you may not change the source code
> >> and link your application to the changed library -- this is IMHO the
> >> exact opposite of the Linux-GNU `spirit' (if there is any such thing,
> >> the recent Lignux wars make me wonder).

> >On the contrary, you _can_ change the souce and link your application.
> >But you can't release your source, because then others could not
> >compile your program using the stock Qt distribution.

> So does this mean that the restrictions from the non-commercial
> license do not apply if I don't distribute the Qt-based application ?
> I have read it three times, and never saw it this way ("...covers
> private use...").  Could you please clarify the text if this is true ?
> Thanks.

You're talking about writing an application and not distributing it at
all?  THAT is what you mean by "the linux-GNU `spirit'"?

Here is what the non-commercial Qt license says about it:

        If you write an application which uses Qt for pay or
        as part of your job, you have to distribute it.

        If you write an application and want to distribute it,
        you have to distribute it including source.

The shareware and commercial licenses do not include these
requirements, of course.

Quote:> >If you change Qt and want others to get the changes, there is only one
> >way: Give the patches to us, to add them to the stock distribution.

> That is very reasonable.  But I was thinking more specifically of the
> following case: Say I think I've fixed a bug, and report the fix back.
> You disagree, and reject the change.  Then I'm stuck and can't
> continue to develop with the changed version.  (With a GNU package, I
> _could_ always start my own derived version -- I would only do this as
> the last resort, of course.)  That was all I wanted to point out.

Hasn't happened yet, and I'm confident that we'll never reject a bug
fix outright.  Sometimes there's more than one way to fix a bug, of
course, but NOT fixing a bug is not what we prefer.

--Arnt

 
 
 

Qt 0.97 released (C++ GUI toolkit with Motif look and feel)

Post by Wolfram Glog » Tue, 18 Jun 1996 04:00:00




>> So does this mean that the restrictions from the non-commercial
>> license do not apply if I don't distribute the Qt-based application ?
>> I have read it three times, and never saw it this way ("...covers
>> private use...").  Could you please clarify the text if this is true ?
>> Thanks.
>You're talking about writing an application and not distributing it at
>all?  THAT is what you mean by "the linux-GNU `spirit'"?

No, but I'm sure you know that there happen to be applications that
are rather unsuitable for distributing.  E.g., they may be of no use
to anyone but me or my colleagues.

Quote:>Here is what the non-commercial Qt license says about it:
>    If you write an application which uses Qt for pay or
>    as part of your job, you have to distribute it.
>    If you write an application and want to distribute it,
>    you have to distribute it including source.

You left out "the app must be useful outside your organization."
And I'm not going to make a fool of myself by uploading all the
barely running versions of my quickly hacked applications.

My conclusion was and is: Releasing Qt source looks like a great
thing, but with the `non-commercial' license, I can't make use of it.
I'll stick to the free alternatives.

Regards,
Wolfram.

 
 
 

Qt 0.97 released (C++ GUI toolkit with Motif look and feel)

Post by Arnt Gulbrandse » Wed, 19 Jun 1996 04:00:00





> >> So does this mean that the restrictions from the non-commercial
> >> license do not apply if I don't distribute the Qt-based application ?
> >> I have read it three times, and never saw it this way ("...covers
> >> private use...").  Could you please clarify the text if this is true ?
> >> Thanks.

> >You're talking about writing an application and not distributing it at
> >all?  THAT is what you mean by "the linux-GNU `spirit'"?

> No, but I'm sure you know that there happen to be applications that
> are rather unsuitable for distributing.  E.g., they may be of no use
> to anyone but me or my colleagues.

You're saying that _you_ want to decide whether other people should be
interested in your work.

Which is okay, in a way.  I personally don't like it, but it's okay:
You decide what to do with your work.

But we give Qt for free only to people who will _share_ what they do.

Quote:> >Here is what the non-commercial Qt license says about it:

> >       If you write an application which uses Qt for pay or
> >       as part of your job, you have to distribute it.

> >       If you write an application and want to distribute it,
> >       you have to distribute it including source.

> You left out "the app must be useful outside your organization."

Yes.  You can't put all the valuable stuff in a library and make a
makefile which can build an elaborate hello-world for the rest of the
world and a real application for those who happen to have that
library.  Or make it operate on some data format which is undocumented
and unique to your company.  Or, or, or.

Quote:> My conclusion was and is: Releasing Qt source looks like a great
> thing, but with the `non-commercial' license, I can't make use of it.
> I'll stick to the free alternatives.

Your choice.

--Arnt

 
 
 

1. Qt 1.0 released (c++ gui library)

Qt is a complete and well-developed object-oriented framework for
developing graphical user interface applications using C++. It has
been used professionally for over a year.

Troll Tech is proud to release a free version of Qt for the X Window
System.

This release, Qt 1.0, is free for free software development on all
operating systems that support the X Window System and includes the
complete Qt source code for X and makefiles for Linux, Solaris, SunOS,
FreeBSD, OSF/1, Irix, BSD/OS, NetBSD, SCO and HP-UX. New platforms may
be added in the future.

Qt has excellent documentation: 450 pages of postscript and fully
cross-referenced online html documentation. See it on the web:
http://www.troll.no/qt/

Qt is easy to learn, with consistent naming across all the classes and a
14-chapter on-line tutorial with links into the rest of the documentation.

Qt dramatically cuts down on development time and complexity in writing
user interface software for the X Window System. It allows the programmer
to focus directly on the programming task, and not mess around with
low-level X11 code.

Qt is fully object-oriented. All widgets and dialogs are C++ objects,
and, using inheritance, creation of new widgets is easy and natural.

Qt's revolutionary signal/slot mechanism provides true component
programming. Reusable components can work together without any knowledge
of each other, and in a type-safe way.

Qt has a very fast paint engine, in some cases ten times faster than
most other toolkits. You have full access to low-level painting
functionality. Painting is device independent, so the same code that draws
on the screen can generate printer output.  You can also do arbitrary
clipping, rotation, and scaling - simply and fast.

Qt is very fast and compact because it is based directly on Xlib and uses
neither Motif nor X Intrinsics.  Qt's widgets (user interface objects)
emulate the Motif look and feel, with slight improvements.

Qt is available under several licenses:

        - for commercial use
        - for use with free software (X only)
        - for shareware developers (X only)

Note that the toolkit is the same, only the licenses differ.

The Qt GUI toolkit is copyright Troll Tech AS.  It is available (at the
time of writing) for Windows 95/NT and several variations of Unix (X11
release 5 or later).  See http://www.troll.no/ for more availability
information, or fax Troll Tech at +47 22646949.

Qt can be downloaded from http://www.troll.no/dl/ or via anonymous FTP
from ftp.troll.no.

Join the qt-interest mailing list by sending a message containing the

You can contact Troll Tech at

        Troll Tech AS
        Postboks 6133 Etterstad
        N-0602 Oslo
        Norway

        fax: +47 22646949

2. What SCSI devices are supported?

3. Motif and CDE look and feel (Motif resources?)

4. How to get interface information when ifa_msghdr not supported ?

5. Qt 1.2 released (C++ GUI framework)

6. Newbie: Home Networking Questions

7. X programming : GTK/QT/MOTIF/LESSTIF , which toolkit to learn?

8. UNIX -> NT TCP/IP port communication question

9. wxWindows - free portable Motif/XView/MSWindows GUI toolkit

10. ANNOUNCE: jed 0.97-14 released

11. mcc-interim release for 0.97?

12. wxWindows - free portable GUI toolkit for Motif/XView/MSWindows

13. ANNOUNCE: jed 0.97-13 released (programmer's editor)