Very Computer

by **Amit Chatterje** » Sun, 08 Jun 1997 04:00:00

> "The inclusion of DOS and the Netscape server represents a bold move
> made by Caldera to mainstream Linux. So far it looks like an effort well
> spent."

I am somehwhat confused by the above statement. The confusion is :
What is Caldera trying to achieve by including DOS in their distributon
? How will an outdated OS (DOS) be an instrument for bringing COL to the
mainstream ? Netscape browser can be easily downloaded from the netscape
FTP site and installing it is quite simple. I agree that it is more
convenient to have it with a distribution but why does Caldera make such
a big deal about it ? And the last time I looked, the netscape version
shipped with COL was ancient.

--
/*********************************************************************
Amit Chatterjee

All opinions are mine, not NORTEL's.
*********************************************************************/

by **Timothy Watso** » Sun, 08 Jun 1997 04:00:00

> > "The inclusion of DOS and the Netscape server represents a bold move

^^^^^^

Quote:> mainstream ? Netscape browser can be easily downloaded from the netscape

^^^^^^^^
--
________________________________________________________________________
T i m o t h y W a t s o n

__/| Something there is that doesn't love a wall, that wants it down

by **Amit Chatterje** » Mon, 09 Jun 1997 04:00:00

> "The inclusion of DOS and the Netscape server represents a bold move
> made by Caldera to mainstream Linux. So far it looks like an effort well
> spent."

I am somehwhat confused by the above statement. The confusion is :
What is Caldera trying to achieve by including DOS in their distributon
? How will an outdated OS (DOS) be an instrument for bringing COL to the
mainstream ? Netscape browser can be easily downloaded from the netscape
FTP site and installing it is quite simple. I agree that it is more
convenient to have it with a distribution but why does Caldera make such
a big deal about it ? And the last time I looked, the netscape version
shipped with COL was ancient.

--
/*********************************************************************
Amit Chatterjee

All opinions are mine, not NORTEL's.
*********************************************************************/

by **Lawrence Say** » Mon, 09 Jun 1997 04:00:00

:>
:>>
:>
:>> "The inclusion of DOS and the Netscape server represents a bold move
:>> made by Caldera to mainstream Linux. So far it looks like an effort well
:>> spent."
:>
:>I am somehwhat confused by the above statement. The confusion is :
:>What is Caldera trying to achieve by including DOS in their distributon
:>? How will an outdated OS (DOS) be an instrument for bringing COL to the
:>mainstream ? Netscape browser can be easily downloaded from the netscape
:>FTP site and installing it is quite simple. I agree that it is more
:>convenient to have it with a distribution but why does Caldera make such
:>a big deal about it ? And the last time I looked, the netscape version
:>shipped with COL was ancient.
:>
:>--
:>/*********************************************************************
:>Amit Chatterjee

:>
:>All opinions are mine, not NORTEL's.
:>*********************************************************************/

Netscape 3.0 ships with OpenLinux Standard. Java 1.02 is also included as is
the Sun Java Development Kit.

The article you responded to stated Netscape Server, not Netscape Browser.
Big difference, and intend to replace the Apache server which ships with most
Linux distributions.

The only advantage I can think of for the inclusion of DOS is that this DOS
comes with source code (another for many might be that it is not from
Microsoft). Who knows where this might take it? With source code in hand,
DOS might just expand beyond our wildest imaginations.

As for outdated, isn't UNIX an older and in many ways much more primitive OS
than DOS (not suggesting less usefull, or less powerfull here so don't flame
me for this)?

---------------------------------------------
Man's mind is his basic tool of survival!

*remove '.NOSPAM' for correct E-Mail address*
---------------------------------------------

by **Clem D** » Mon, 09 Jun 1997 04:00:00

The DOS thing isn't as silly as it sounds, at least from my point of view.
FTAPE users do, as I understand things, still have to retain some DOS
capability in order to format tapes, as FTAPE doesn't offer this facility on
floppy-connected tape drives. A small DOS partition would seem to be a
reasonable approach therefore. Caldera's inclusion of OpenDos gets around the
issues of getting, licencing etc. a copy of M$'s MS-DOS.

OpenDos appears to be free for non-commercial use. I intend having a small
OpenDos partition on my Linux box (currently being put together) for FTAPE
support.

Nice one Caldera, in my opinion.

Clem

>:>

>:>>
>:>
>:>> "The inclusion of DOS and the Netscape server represents a bold move
>:>> made by Caldera to mainstream Linux. So far it looks like an effort well
>:>> spent."
>:>
>:>I am somehwhat confused by the above statement. The confusion is :
>:>What is Caldera trying to achieve by including DOS in their distributon
>:>? How will an outdated OS (DOS) be an instrument for bringing COL to the
>:>mainstream ? Netscape browser can be easily downloaded from the netscape
>:>FTP site and installing it is quite simple. I agree that it is more
>:>convenient to have it with a distribution but why does Caldera make such
>:>a big deal about it ? And the last time I looked, the netscape version
>:>shipped with COL was ancient.
>:>
>:>--
>:>/*********************************************************************
>:>Amit Chatterjee

>:>
>:>All opinions are mine, not NORTEL's.
>:>*********************************************************************/

>Netscape 3.0 ships with OpenLinux Standard. Java 1.02 is also included as is
>the Sun Java Development Kit.

>The article you responded to stated Netscape Server, not Netscape Browser.
>Big difference, and intend to replace the Apache server which ships with most
>Linux distributions.

>The only advantage I can think of for the inclusion of DOS is that this DOS
>comes with source code (another for many might be that it is not from
>Microsoft). Who knows where this might take it? With source code in hand,
>DOS might just expand beyond our wildest imaginations.

>As for outdated, isn't UNIX an older and in many ways much more primitive OS
>than DOS (not suggesting less usefull, or less powerfull here so don't flame
>me for this)?

>---------------------------------------------
>Man's mind is his basic tool of survival!

>*remove '.NOSPAM' for correct E-Mail address*
>---------------------------------------------

by **Gordon L. Scot** » Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:00:00

Quote:> As for outdated, isn't UNIX an older and in many ways much more primitive OS
> than DOS (not suggesting less usefull, or less powerfull here so don't flame
> me for this)?

*Not* a flame, but I have to say that I don't agree with the 'more
primitive' bit. Most of DOS is pretty darned crude!

BTW, Caldera's OpenDos is actually the DOS clone that came from
Digital Research as DR-DOS via Novell as Novell-DOS 7.0. IMHO
it's far better than MS-DOS ever was. I still run the occasional
program with it under dosemu.

--

<A HREF="http://www.apis.demon.co.uk>Gordon's Apis Homepage</A>

by **Amit Chatterje** » Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:00:00

> The article you responded to stated Netscape Server, not Netscape Browser.
> Big difference, and intend to replace the Apache server which ships with most
> Linux distributions.

Ok, I missed out on the 'server' part and there is, indeed, a big
difference. I have got Apache installed on one of our system and find it
to be quite reliable. How does the netscape server compare with it ?

Quote:
> The only advantage I can think of for the inclusion of DOS is that this DOS
> comes with source code (another for many might be that it is not from
> Microsoft). Who knows where this might take it? With source code in hand,
> DOS might just expand beyond our wildest imaginations.

As long as it is shipped for free, I have no problem. However, almost
any PC you buy from the market comes with MS-DOS installed on them. I am
not sure why the inclusion of source code would make a lot of
difference. After all, in a commercial environment (which is Caldera's
target), no one will probably bother about hacking the DOS source code
to come up with something "beyond our wildest imaginations". I am still
not very convinced about how inclusion of DOS in a Linux distribution
brings Linux to the mainstream as the original quote stated.

Quote:> As for outdated, isn't UNIX an older and in many ways much more primitive OS
> than DOS (not suggesting less usefull, or less powerfull here so don't flame
> me for this)?

Unix is older - yes, outdated - no. Basically, DOS was designed with
very small in mind computers for personal usage and the people who
designed it never imagined that it will be so popular and will be used
for all sorts of things. That is why it lacks multi-user, multi-tasking,
proper memory management, protection mode, etc. This is not the case
with UNIX.

Another interesting thing I hear is that on year 2000, the DOS system
will be totally confused and probably will not be usable. Is it true ?

--
/*********************************************************************
Amit Chatterjee

All opinions are mine, not NORTEL's.
*********************************************************************/

by **Fred Smi** » Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:00:00

: The DOS thing isn't as silly as it sounds, at least from my point of view.
: FTAPE users do, as I understand things, still have to retain some DOS
: capability in order to format tapes, as FTAPE doesn't offer this facility on
: floppy-connected tape drives. A small DOS partition would seem to be a
: reasonable approach therefore. Caldera's inclusion of OpenDos gets around the
: issues of getting, licencing etc. a copy of M$'s MS-DOS.

Actually, ftape 3.03 claims to contain some support for formatting tapes,
though I've not yet tried that capability.

Fred
--

But God demonstrates his own love for us in this:
While we were still sinners,
Christ died for us.
------------------------------- Romans 5:8 (niv) ------------------------------

by **Brad Pepe** » Tue, 10 Jun 1997 04:00:00

>> "The inclusion of DOS and the Netscape server represents a bold move
>> made by Caldera to mainstream Linux. So far it looks like an effort well
>> spent."

>I am somehwhat confused by the above statement. The confusion is :
>What is Caldera trying to achieve by including DOS in their distributon
>? How will an outdated OS (DOS) be an instrument for bringing COL to the
>mainstream ? Netscape browser can be easily downloaded from the netscape
>FTP site and installing it is quite simple. I agree that it is more
>convenient to have it with a distribution but why does Caldera make such
>a big deal about it ? And the last time I looked, the netscape version
>shipped with COL was ancient.

DOS is still used in a surprising number of cases (for example most
Point Of Sale devices still use DOS). Also OpenLinux Standard includes
the Netscape FastTrack **Server** and the Netscape Browser. The Server
is not free and as far as I know not available except from Caldera.

--
Brad Pepers Proud supporter of Linux and
Ramparts Management Group Ltd. Caldera in Canada!

http://www.agt.net/public/ramparts Linux rules!

by **Rich Mulv** » Thu, 12 Jun 1997 04:00:00

>Another interesting thing I hear is that on year 2000, the DOS system
>will be totally confused and probably will not be usable. Is it true ?

DOS itself doesn't have any inherent Y2000 problems, but there are a
number of PC's out there whose Real-Time-Clocks spazz out at the turn
of the millenium. ( Not to mention the applications - DOS, Unix, etc.
that are going to *out on 1/1/2000. )

- Rich

--
Rich Mulvey

http://www.veryComputer.com/~mulveyr

by **Evan Leibovit** » Thu, 12 Jun 1997 04:00:00

Quote:>> "The inclusion of DOS and the Netscape server represents a bold move
>> made by Caldera to mainstream Linux. So far it looks like an effort well
>> spent."
>I am somehwhat confused by the above statement. The confusion is :
>What is Caldera trying to achieve by including DOS in their distributon?
>How will an outdated OS (DOS) be an instrument for bringing COL to the
>mainstream?

I still find that a singificant number of pre-PNP plug-in boards
require DOS software to configure them (especially NICs such as
NE2000 clones). Many EISA config programs are also DOS-based. So,
for about the past decade I (and many others I know) make a
20MB-or-so DOS partition on Unix and Linux boxes in which to store
such programs.

Including a licensed version of DOS allows me to install such a
system without requiring any Microsoft code.

Quote:>I agree that it is more
>convenient to have it with a distribution but why does Caldera make such
>a big deal about it?

Read the license agreement that accompanies the freely-downloadable
Navigator. Commercial installations (such as Nortel) that care about
using software in accordance with the producers' license will want to
have the fully-licensed-for-commercial-use version from Caldera.

Quote:>And the last time I looked, the netscape version
>shipped with COL was ancient.

Netscape Gold 3.01 in Standard, Netscape 2 in Base.

Nothing stops one from downloading newer stuff, but that's what's
licensed in the Caldera offerings.

--
Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd, located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
Supporting PC-based Unix since 1985 / Caldera & SCO authorized / www.telly.org
Yesterday's history/Tomorrow's mystery/Today's a gift/That's why its the present

by **Evan Leibovit** » Thu, 12 Jun 1997 04:00:00

Quote:>> The only advantage I can think of for the inclusion of DOS is that this DOS
>> comes with source code (another for many might be that it is not from
>> Microsoft). Who knows where this might take it? With source code in hand,
>> DOS might just expand beyond our wildest imaginations.
>As long as it is shipped for free, I have no problem. However, almost
>any PC you buy from the market comes with MS-DOS installed on them.

I challenge you to find *one* mainstream vendor that pre-loads DOS anymore,
let alone "almost any PC you buy". While Win95 has DOS underpinnings, it's
not separated from the GUI the way Win3.1 was and is not (or at least not
easily) separately installed from Win95.

Finding vendors who pre-load DOS now is rarer than those who pre-load
Linux.

Quote:>Another interesting thing I hear is that on year 2000, the DOS system
>will be totally confused and probably will not be usable. Is it true ?

Not if Caldera continues to maintain and support (its version).
Can't speak for MS-DOS.

--
Evan Leibovitch, Sound Software Ltd, located in beautiful Brampton, Ontario
Supporting PC-based Unix since 1985 / Caldera & SCO authorized / www.telly.org
Yesterday's history/Tomorrow's mystery/Today's a gift/That's why its the present

by **David Boydsto** » Thu, 12 Jun 1997 04:00:00

> What is Caldera trying to achieve by including DOS in their distributon
> ? How will an outdated OS (DOS) be an instrument for bringing COL to the
> mainstream ?

Do you know how many tens of thousands of DOS programs are still in use
(good use) today? Can you buy a copy of DOS from M$?

Free DOS is a very good thing.

--
Dave Boydston
Solutions Consulting - Bringing Your Bright Ideas To Life
Access serial ports from Java see--> http://www.sc-systems.com

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