Linux now or Linux(TM) tomorrow

Linux now or Linux(TM) tomorrow

Post by jacob3.. » Mon, 08 Jan 2001 05:59:10



I am concerned with the growing number of linux distrobutions
unavailable or extrememly inconveniant to users with a less then dsl
service
also as the following for linux grows will micro$oft or some other
vested intrest company attempt a grab at the gnu lincense by modifieing
linux just enough to make it uncompatible with standerd linux and thus
make the common user more inclined toward there version because of the
infamy of their name...
linux as we all know is at a less then mature level of development as
an os(lack of drivers and uncompatability with hardware)
but as it advances how will the other big vested intrests react to it?
if in 5 years time 50% of the server world and 25% of the standerd user
world  running Linux instead of windows or Unix what will happen?
will big intrests attempt a squash down on linux before then?
or will one of the major distributers of linux now ie.red hat or
macmillin sell there intrests to one of them who would be able to make
linux more compatible and also charge money for this compatability>?
i mean teh GNU protects the OS but not the applications for it and as
we have seen before microsoft protects everything
so as we move along in the road linux as an OS where will we be when
big intests and the powers that be take a serious intrest in takeing
back what linux stole?

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Linux now or Linux(TM) tomorrow

Post by Adam Warne » Mon, 08 Jan 2001 09:29:34


Hi jacob3223,

Firstly Linux is already a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds.

Quote:> I am concerned with the growing number of linux distrobutions
> unavailable or extrememly inconveniant to users with a less then dsl
> service

Use Debian then. It's not even a commercial distribution.

Quote:> also as the following for linux grows will micro$oft or some other
> vested intrest company attempt a grab at the gnu lincense by modifieing
> linux just enough to make it uncompatible with standerd linux and thus
> make the common user more inclined toward there version because of the
> infamy of their name...

Flawed reasoning:
1. Microsoft is not the gatekeeper of Linux.
2. If they modify GNU code they'll have to release the source code of their
modifications or in the least suffer such extremely bad press that they'll
become known as the evil empire and the laughing stock of the world (sic).
3. Many people in the Linux community will look to those with prestige for
advice on how to proceed if a MS distribution of Linux becomes available. If
MS plays fair then they will eventually be embraced.

Quote:> linux as we all know is at a less then mature level of development as
> an os(lack of drivers and uncompatability with hardware)

Repeating this doesn't make it true.

Quote:> but as it advances how will the other big vested intrests react to it?
> if in 5 years time 50% of the server world and 25% of the standerd user
> world  running Linux instead of windows or Unix what will happen?
> will big intrests attempt a squash down on linux before then?

They can't.

Quote:> or will one of the major distributers of linux now ie.red hat or
> macmillin sell there intrests to one of them who would be able to make
> linux more compatible and also charge money for this compatability>?
> i mean teh GNU protects the OS but not the applications for it and as
> we have seen before microsoft protects everything

That's why there's a big push to create GNU productivity applications as
well.

Quote:> so as we move along in the road linux as an OS where will we be when
> big intests and the powers that be take a serious intrest in takeing
> back what linux stole?

Again they can't. The most they can do is provide essential and valuable
services that free software users cannot access. And they will have to be so
compelling that people will want to stay/switch back to Windows. Who knows
(speculation), free versions of Age of Empires III and Quake 4 funded by
Microsoft that only runs on Windows could be enough :-) And in our
entertainment-centric world this could indeed be enough!

Regards,
Adam

 
 
 

Linux now or Linux(TM) tomorrow

Post by sfcybea » Mon, 08 Jan 2001 08:27:22


Man, this has been discused to death. If they modify Linux they must
release the code. That code would then be available to everyone. I could
then be incorportated into other distros and, poof, MS no longer has the
advantage. Or, more likely, improve the code and get it to work right
and release a linux that performs better than Linux



> I am concerned with the growing number of linux distrobutions
> unavailable or extrememly inconveniant to users with a less then dsl
> service
> also as the following for linux grows will micro$oft or some other
> vested intrest company attempt a grab at the gnu lincense by
modifieing
> linux just enough to make it uncompatible with standerd linux and thus
> make the common user more inclined toward there version because of the
> infamy of their name...
> linux as we all know is at a less then mature level of development as
> an os(lack of drivers and uncompatability with hardware)
> but as it advances how will the other big vested intrests react to it?
> if in 5 years time 50% of the server world and 25% of the standerd
user
> world  running Linux instead of windows or Unix what will happen?
> will big intrests attempt a squash down on linux before then?
> or will one of the major distributers of linux now ie.red hat or
> macmillin sell there intrests to one of them who would be able to make
> linux more compatible and also charge money for this compatability>?
> i mean teh GNU protects the OS but not the applications for it and as
> we have seen before microsoft protects everything
> so as we move along in the road linux as an OS where will we be when
> big intests and the powers that be take a serious intrest in takeing
> back what linux stole?

> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/

Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
 
 
 

Linux now or Linux(TM) tomorrow

Post by Todd » Mon, 08 Jan 2001 13:11:54



Quote:> Hi jacob3223,

> Firstly Linux is already a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds.

> > I am concerned with the growing number of linux distrobutions
> > unavailable or extrememly inconveniant to users with a less then dsl
> > service

> Use Debian then. It's not even a commercial distribution.

The larger danger is the fact that there *are* so many distributions --
making 3rd parties unwilling to publish software for all distributions (if
at all) and then having to support multiple systems with possible kernel
alterations or 'improvements' by the users.

Quote:> > also as the following for linux grows will micro$oft or some other
> > vested intrest company attempt a grab at the gnu lincense by modifieing
> > linux just enough to make it uncompatible with standerd linux and thus
> > make the common user more inclined toward there version because of the
> > infamy of their name...

> Flawed reasoning:
> 1. Microsoft is not the gatekeeper of Linux.
> 2. If they modify GNU code they'll have to release the source code of
their
> modifications or in the least suffer such extremely bad press that they'll
> become known as the evil empire and the laughing stock of the world (sic).

As if MS would care?  Don't all Linux users already feel this way anyway??

Quote:> 3. Many people in the Linux community will look to those with prestige for
> advice on how to proceed if a MS distribution of Linux becomes available.
If
> MS plays fair then they will eventually be embraced.

NO.

MS is not embraced because they do or do not play fair.  They are embraced
because they offer a product which people want.

MS is smart.  They know what people largely want.  They deliver.

MS would not be dumb enough to make a GNU licensed Linux.  They would simply
start over with a new 'free' OS designed exclusively to compete with Linux -
and it would be compatible.

Then, MS would throw their vast resources at making it actually a
well-written and tested OS rather than a series of patches around a kernel.
They would throw resources at writing applications that people would
actually use and want to use.  They would centralize development or have
some organization responsible for screening the outside work if they did
publish the source code (under *their* own license and not GNU).

Quote:> > linux as we all know is at a less then mature level of development as
> > an os(lack of drivers and uncompatability with hardware)

> Repeating this doesn't make it true.

But to all people that use Linux (like myself), we do know it is true.
Saying it isn't true doesn't make it not true.

Quote:> > but as it advances how will the other big vested intrests react to it?
> > if in 5 years time 50% of the server world and 25% of the standerd user
> > world  running Linux instead of windows or Unix what will happen?
> > will big intrests attempt a squash down on linux before then?

> They can't.

But they could effectively compete by other means.

Quote:> > or will one of the major distributers of linux now ie.red hat or
> > macmillin sell there intrests to one of them who would be able to make
> > linux more compatible and also charge money for this compatability>?
> > i mean teh GNU protects the OS but not the applications for it and as
> > we have seen before microsoft protects everything

> That's why there's a big push to create GNU productivity applications as
> well.

Nobody wants to do this without getting compensated.  And most do not want
to give out *their* source code.

Reasons why GNU apps. will *never* be able to compete with MS offerings.

Quote:> > so as we move along in the road linux as an OS where will we be when
> > big intests and the powers that be take a serious intrest in takeing
> > back what linux stole?

> Again they can't. The most they can do is provide essential and valuable
> services that free software users cannot access. And they will have to be
so
> compelling that people will want to stay/switch back to Windows. Who knows
> (speculation), free versions of Age of Empires III and Quake 4 funded by
> Microsoft that only runs on Windows could be enough :-) And in our
> entertainment-centric world this could indeed be enough!

Indeed.

X-Box is on the horizon, and it looks *cool*.  MS has already lined up tons
of developers, including EA.

All of these developers *must* use DirectX 8 to write their games -- the
same exact DirectX 8 as Windows 2000, ME and soon Whistler will incorporate.

More games for Windows, more focus on DirectX, less on OpenGL and Linux.

-Todd

Quote:

> Regards,
> Adam

 
 
 

Linux now or Linux(TM) tomorrow

Post by Nigel Feltha » Mon, 08 Jan 2001 21:09:05


Quote:>Then, MS would throw their vast resources at making it actually a
>well-written and tested OS rather than a series of patches around a kernel.

That would make a change - when will they start using these resources to
make
windows a well-written OS instead of the bug-riddled regularly crashing pile
of
*they currently sell.

Quote:>X-Box is on the horizon, and it looks *cool*.  MS has already lined up tons
>of developers, including EA.

>All of these developers *must* use DirectX 8 to write their games -- the
>same exact DirectX 8 as Windows 2000, ME and soon Whistler will
incorporate.

>More games for Windows, more focus on DirectX, less on OpenGL and Linux.

Indrema is also on the horizon - Free development tools, possibility of
producing a
combined Game console and Tivi Video recorder (both run linux so could be
possible),
free certification for freeware games, similar hardware to X-box so could be
possible to
make it run x-box games using modified version of wine.
 
 
 

Linux now or Linux(TM) tomorrow

Post by solaris_ » Tue, 09 Jan 2001 01:38:39




Quote:> Then, MS would throw their vast resources at making it actually a
> well-written and tested OS rather than a series of patches
> around a kernel.

That is something I could never understand.

MS is actually a small company (20-30 K employees?) and I understand
that half of them are contractors.

Sun has may be more employees. IBM has probably 10 times employees,
EDS has more, Oracle probably has as many, etc...

Yet, of all those software companies, no one is able to
compete with MS on the desktop?

isn't this amazing? This is something I could never understand.

It is either MS is brilliant, or the rest of the software industry
is so stupid.

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Linux now or Linux(TM) tomorrow

Post by Nigel Feltha » Wed, 10 Jan 2001 06:49:45


Quote:>It is either MS is brilliant, or the rest of the software industry
>is so stupid.

So this has nothing to do with the way they rigged their oem agreements
so that PC companies had to pay licence fees on every PC they sell so
if they wanted to sell other operating systems as an alternative they had
to pay fees on both the OS supplied and the MS os they supply with the
other machines they sell.  It was financial blackmail which forced MS
onto every desktop PC not quality - even in the dos days DR-DOS was
far superior to ms-dos but then windows betas were released containing
DR-DOS detection code to display fake errors when run on non-ms versions
of dos. Then they illegally tied windows and ms-dos (msdos 7 was released
for beta as a standalone product until they decided DR-Dos had to be killed
off).
 
 
 

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Any quick answers ? ? ?
Thank-You

***************************
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Ft. McMurray, Alberta
CANADA

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