ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

Post by Michael Dill » Tue, 05 Nov 1996 04:00:00



Read all about it at this URL
http://www.veryComputer.com/

Bill Machrone has written two nice columns in a row about Linux. In this
third one he again praises Linux but points out that Linux advocates
are a bunch of *ING CLUELESS IDIOTS!!!!
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Those are my words, not his. Bill is too much of a gentleman to ever say
anything like that.

But it distresses me greatly to see the clueless morons who think that
they are accomplishing anything by calling people names and insulting
them. Now before you turn around and tell me that I am doing the same
thing here, NO I'M NOT. I am accurately describing these people. There are
dictionary definitions for words like "dork", "moron", "clueless", "idiot"
and the word "*ing" used as an adjective denoting intensity. Those
definitions are a perfect fit for many Linux advocates.

However, used to describe Bill Machrone they are nothing but rude insults.
I have been reading Bill Machrone's writing for years. I would describe it
as technically cluefull, thoughtful, insightful, generally accurate
commentary on the world of computer technology. He is one of the few
computer columnists who is technically competent. Big difference.

Yesterday I posted an article originally written by Lars Wirzenius that I
found on a web site. It contains some very good advice on how to advocate
Linux without being a dork.

I use Linux because it is good stuff. Two and one half years ago, I
started an ISP with two machines, one running BSDI's BSD/OS and one
running Linux. After a few months both were running Linux. When I sold my
share in the business last fall there were 7 Linux servers running there.
I am one of those people who puts their money where their mouth is. I
don't just use Linux on the desktop but also as a critical business tool.

And now I am working on making Linux an even better business tool by
creating business applications for it.

When I advocate Linux I do it based on my knowledge of OS\360, APL\360,
GCOS TSS, VM370/CMS, UNIX 6th Edition, Dynamo, BOSS, BOSS/IX, DX10,
SCO Xenix 286, AT&T UNIX System V, SCO UNIX, BSD/OS, FreeBSD, DOS 1.10
thru 6.22, Windows 1.0 thru 3.11, Windows 95, Macintosh System 6 and 7,
and Linux. But Linux can't do everything yet so sometimes I tell people to
buy SCO UNIX or Windows or Macs. I'm not a traitor, I'm just wise enough
to know that you make more friends by telling the truth than by lying.

--
Michael Dillon                   -               ISP & Internet Consulting
Memra Software Inc.              -                  Fax: +1-604-546-3049

 
 
 

ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

Post by John Bel » Tue, 05 Nov 1996 04:00:00



> Read all about it at this URL
> http://www.veryComputer.com/

> Bill Machrone has written two nice columns in a row about Linux. In this
> third one he again praises Linux but points out that Linux advocates
> are a bunch of *ING CLUELESS IDIOTS!!!!
>                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Those are my words, not his. Bill is too much of a gentleman to ever say
> anything like that.

Funny that quite a few Linux contributors/users are ex-Amiga fans.
OS/2 folks as well, Unix bigots, etc.

Hmm, I see a pattern here :-(.

Actually, that is a cheap shot. There were several in the Amiga and
OS/2 camps who were level-headed for each raving lunatic that one ran
across. Unfortunately, it seems that we in the Linux community are not
immune from this particular disease. Heaven knows I have been
guilty of foaming at the mouth uncontrollably on Usenet, especially
when people take shots at the fine work of people in the Linux/GNU/
*BSD world :-(.

It's time to grow up, though.

The first step in this process is to realize that people like Bill
Machrone started out as "one of us". They hacked, they tweaked, they
spent/spend innumerable hours in front of a screen, and they do it
because, God help us, _they like computers, too_. All kinds. And
the OS and applications that go with them. You can't write about
this business without loving computers; you'd go nuts.

We've reached a point in time where people such as these have cast
an enthusiastic eye towards Linux. Let's face it, though. These
guys/gals are busy, they have lives/deadlines/*to deal with
just like the rest of us. Which means they're gonna write about
some things and get it wrong. That's life, it happens.

Instead of opening the gun ports and letting them have a full
broadside, we should instead remember what it was like when _we_
first started looking at Linux; when _we_ were clueless about it,
and told people things that were wrong or relayed info that was
old news. Believe me, if people had peppered me with insults
every time I did or said something wrong regarding Linux, I
wouldn't be using it now. I wouldn't expect any other human
being to put up with such nonsenss, either.

Now we have to reap what we as a community have sown. Instead of
having a third, positive article on Linux written by one of the
leading writers in the industry, we instead have to read about
how all the bad apples _are_ spoiling it for the rest of us.

C'MON GUYS! This is our chance to show the world that people
can write "free" software and act professionaly at the same
time. We should be working with _anyone_ in the mainstream who
is willing to stretch their horizons and talk about the new kids
on the block. If I were Linus, I'd probably be beside myself
with embarassment at what some elements of the Linux community
are doing in Linux' name.

Considering the level of flame Bill had to deal with in the
past couple of weeks, it will be a wonder if he ever writes
anything about Linux again. If he didn't, I wouldn't blame
him a bit.

And that hurts :-(.
--
                       John Bell, CACI Inc. - Federal

                      "Hi ho! Yow! I'm surfing ARPANET!"
                 - anagram for "The Information Superhighway"

 
 
 

ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

Post by Stephen Smooge » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00




> > Read all about it at this URL
> > http://www.veryComputer.com/

> > Bill Machrone has written two nice columns in a row about Linux. In this
> > third one he again praises Linux but points out that Linux advocates
> > are a bunch of *ING CLUELESS IDIOTS!!!!
> >                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > Those are my words, not his. Bill is too much of a gentleman to ever say
> > anything like that.
> Considering the level of flame Bill had to deal with in the
> past couple of weeks, it will be a wonder if he ever writes
> anything about Linux again. If he didn't, I wouldn't blame
> him a bit.

> And that hurts :-(.

I have to agree with this 100%. We begin acting like 2 year old
flamers and the people who start getting Industry CTO's to look at new
trends are going to forget us faster than ex-lax and excrement (which
is what we will be.) It is much better to "correct" the views of the
people with a nice statement of "thanks for writing about us, and I
would like to help you in the future by pointing out some problems
your article has:"

It is our responisibility to be the best operating system in the
world, and part of that is to be responsible and "civil" to
complaints/problems with reporting about us.

It is very very important, to make sure that the loudest and clearest
voice of the Linux community is one that we are a mature audience
wanting to push Linux into every place it can go. The mature part is
more important than the pushing. A CTO will push for a port to Linux
if he thinks that people will go that route. And very few IS
Bueracrats and such will start thinking about going to Linux if the
word from the ZD's and such is that we are bunch of loud-mouthed
shitheads.

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen John Smoogen    "The Ba*t is where all the neat stuff is"
Spyglass Incorporated   (217) 373-3996

 
 
 

ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

Post by David M. Co » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00



Quote:>Bill Machrone has written two nice columns in a row about Linux. In this
>third one he again praises Linux but points out that Linux advocates
>are a bunch of *ING CLUELESS IDIOTS!!!!

I read a bit of the threads involved and, correct me if I'm wrong, most
of the posts were highly critical of those criticising Mr. Machrone for
his errors.  If Mr. Machrone feels he must paint Linux users with a broad
brush because a few posters on an anarchic medium such as Usenet then to
hell with him.

Dave Cook

 
 
 

ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

Post by Bill Machro » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00



>Read all about it at this URL
>http://www.veryComputer.com/
>Bill Machrone has written two nice columns in a row about Linux. In this
>third one he again praises Linux but points out that Linux advocates
>are a bunch of *ING CLUELESS IDIOTS!!!!
>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Those are my words, not his. Bill is too much of a gentleman to ever say
>anything like that.

I dare say, Michael!

Seriously, I don't think that castigating Linux advocates or
characterizing them as idiots is particularly helpful.

I was disappointed in the sheer number of people who were willing to
cast a stone in my direction without having read my columns or even
being all that familiar with PC Week. But that's human nature, not
Linux advocacy.

I appreciated the more reasonable voices who told the flamers who
posted here to cool off, accept the fact that I made an error, and let
me correct it.

The experience has not diminished my enthusiasm for Linux; it simply
reminded me how unconnected we can all get from one another.

- Bill

 
 
 

ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

Post by Bill Machro » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00




>>Bill Machrone has written two nice columns in a row about Linux. In this
>>third one he again praises Linux but points out that Linux advocates
>>are a bunch of *ING CLUELESS IDIOTS!!!!
>I read a bit of the threads involved and, correct me if I'm wrong, most
>of the posts were highly critical of those criticising Mr. Machrone for
>his errors.  If Mr. Machrone feels he must paint Linux users with a broad
>brush because a few posters on an anarchic medium such as Usenet then to
>hell with him.
>Dave Cook

It's true that many Linuxers "defended" me here on c.o.l.a., for which
I'm grateful. Unfortunately, that happened after my column deadline. I
also got an inordinate amount of mail that wasn't reflected here,
although most of it seemed to be in response to the initial posting
that called for an e-amil barrage. I even got flames from guys who
said they never read PC Week or my columns, but thought I deserved it
anyway.

Quote:> anarchic medium

If nobody's in charge, then why are so many of these flame-drones
willing to be led by one hothead?

- Bill

 
 
 

ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

Post by Adam Sulmic » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00


I must say thave I very appreciate Bill Machrone Positive comments about
Linux. However, mentioning that there is no Netscape is a very very
fundamental mistake, and I frankly belive that one of the very first
things after installing Linux which most of users do is getting
Netscape, after all the Internet (network) environment is the place were
Linux really shines.

I understand that everybody can make mistakes. However, out here are
aproximately 10+ millions Linux users who are willing to help. Just
ASK ASK ASK. I can offer my help and proof-read any article about Linux
which Bill Machrone might want write.

By the way, I'm wondering what replies Bill Machrone would get if he
would say that "Windows are not OS of your choice", would they be
any better???? or why Bill won't write about post made by Windows users
in style "Mac Users are DD (Dumb as Dogshit)" ??? My advice: do not take
anything on internet too seriously -- such is culture of internet.

And now something on possitive side.. from kernel-development mailing list:
Linux can reach 10.46MB/sec (MByte/sec) on 100Mb/sec (MBit/sec)
ethernet, how many other OS'es can beat that ;)

-Adam

 
 
 

ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

Post by Michael Dill » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00





>>Read all about it at this URL
>>http://www.veryComputer.com/

>>Bill Machrone has written two nice columns in a row about Linux. In this
>>third one he again praises Linux but points out that Linux advocates
>>are a bunch of *ING CLUELESS IDIOTS!!!!
>>               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Those are my words, not his. Bill is too much of a gentleman to ever say
>>anything like that.

>I dare say, Michael!

>Seriously, I don't think that castigating Linux advocates or
>characterizing them as idiots is particularly helpful.

I believe it is helpful to the extent that it makes them wake up and think
for a moment about what they are doing. Unlike earlier generations of
hothead advocates, Linux advocates are generally intelligent and
technically skilled people since until recently you needed to be able to
think and solve problems just to get a Linux system fully operational.
I'm hoping that if these people reflect a bit on their actions they will
start to behave better and work on helping people learn about Linux rather
than doing than wasting their time and energy flaming.

Quote:>The experience has not diminished my enthusiasm for Linux; it simply
>reminded me how unconnected we can all get from one another.

And how easy it is to fall into mob rule. I know a lot of these hothead
advocates are younger people (high school and college) but certainly not
all of them. Nevertheless I am dismayed at how easily they lose all
rational abilities. Perhaps they don't realize that all they accomplish is
to forever implant a hatred of their cherished OS in the minds of most of
their opponents. I know this isn't how you reacted but I find that people
who can write thoughtful advocacy statements also tend to be able to step
back from those kinds of attacks. And I consider your recent columns to
*BE* thoughtful advocacy of Linux, pointing out some ways in which it is a
useful tool that people should investigate and use.

I really don't understand why there is such virulent advocacy by people
who want to see one OS dominate all others. It's like saying everybody
should drive a Ford. But over time the number of brands and types of motor
vehicle available has increased, not decreased. I fully expect that OSes
will go the same way and I believe that the market has passed the point at
which any single technology could possibly ever dominate it.
--
Michael Dillon                   -               ISP & Internet Consulting
Memra Software Inc.              -                  Fax: +1-604-546-3049

 
 
 

ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

Post by Ma » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00



Quote:>I read a bit of the threads involved and, correct me if I'm wrong, most
>of the posts were highly critical of those criticising Mr. Machrone for
>his errors.  If Mr. Machrone feels he must paint Linux users with a broad
>brush because a few posters on an anarchic medium such as Usenet then to
>hell with him.

When I began my journalism career, I remember being somewhat surprised
when articles were revised by editors to actually change quotes that
people had given reporters.

The response by the managing editor, as he looked out the wide windows
above the city, was, "*I* tell people what to think."

Just imagine the advertising dollar pressures on the folks involved to
make sure that the great "unwashed" public thinks the way the paid
advertisers want them to.

A sad fact that every journalist has to face sooner or later...

 
 
 

ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

Post by Robert Grunl » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00




>>Bill Machrone has written two nice columns in a row about Linux. In this
>>third one he again praises Linux but points out that Linux advocates
>>are a bunch of *ING CLUELESS IDIOTS!!!!
>I read a bit of the threads involved and, correct me if I'm wrong, most
>of the posts were highly critical of those criticising Mr. Machrone for
>his errors.  If Mr. Machrone feels he must paint Linux users with a broad
>brush because a few posters on an anarchic medium such as Usenet then to
>hell with him.
>Dave Cook

I believe that although Machrone cites some examples from usenet, he
actually states that the worst messages came via email as a result
of some usenet postings calling for an email campaign. (and I did
see those postings for myself).  So we can't verify his statement;
however as a former OS/2 enthusiast (now Linux ;-/  ) it sounds
plausible to me.

I was one of the early emailers to him, and although I neglected to
thank him for writing about Linux at all (which he deserves IMO),
I hope I was polite. He replied mentioning that he would be doing
another piece (the 11/4 piece) and that he had sent a correction
about Netscape and Java to the PCweek webmaster. I watched
for that correction and it never happened, but given the size of
Ziff's web operation I can't see blaming Machrone for that,
when simple corporate inertia will explain it.

Anyway I have to agree with Michael Dillon here, we need to
at least sound halfway mature ;-)

Look at it from a mainstream point of view: Microsoft is moving
pretty fast to get control of the Web, announcing new products
daily; whether vapor or not, MS gives the *appearance* of moving
fast. Now, Linux development is actually IMO moving faster,
but who would believe that if they weren't following it already
and saw it themselves?  After all nobody's *paying* for the
development, right?  So if Machrone saw an older Linux
web page (and there are plenty out there), it wouldn't look as
out of date as it really is.

Just my $.02 as a beginning Linux user.

 
 
 

ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

Post by Bill Machro » Thu, 07 Nov 1996 04:00:00



>Just imagine the advertising dollar pressures on the folks involved to
>make sure that the great "unwashed" public thinks the way the paid
>advertisers want them to.

Sigh. The old "beholden to advertisers" argument. And what does this
have to do with a factual error I made (and subsequently corrected)?
Perhaps you think that Microsoft leaned on PC Week's publisher, who
leaned on the editor, who leaned on me, and said, "say something wrong
about Linux that will discredit it and cause doubt to form in the
minds of our readers."

The great joy in having big magazines and newspapers is that we're not
beholden to any one advertiser (and nobody in the industry can get
along well enough to vote as a bloc). So we're free to say what we
think. Even if it's irritated advertisers (and I've bugged enough to
draw lawsuits, which I'm rather of proud of). Even if it's wrong.
We're far more beholden to our readers than our advertisers and the
advertisers understand that.

I'm sorry that your journalistic experience was so negative and that
your managing editor was on such an ego trip. Too bad your career
didn't start at Ziff-Davis.

- Bill

 
 
 

ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

Post by mit » Thu, 07 Nov 1996 04:00:00



> I dare say, Michael!

> Seriously, I don't think that castigating Linux advocates or
> characterizing them as idiots is particularly helpful.

> I was disappointed in the sheer number of people who were willing to
> cast a stone in my direction without having read my columns or even
> being all that familiar with PC Week. But that's human nature, not
> Linux advocacy.

> I appreciated the more reasonable voices who told the flamers who
> posted here to cool off, accept the fact that I made an error, and let
> me correct it.

> The experience has not diminished my enthusiasm for Linux; it simply
> reminded me how unconnected we can all get from one another.

> - Bill

Dear Bill,

Since you seem to be quite an active poster here on c.o.l.a I take as a
sign of either:

        o You follow-up automatically on every post that mentions "Bill
          Machrone" somewhere aided by some big ZD search engine.

        o You *really* are interested in Linux and curious about it, even
          intrigued maybe.

I believe in the latter case, because participating to newsgroup
discussions can quickly become a full-time job if one isn't careful or
busy enough. So your involvement in the endless-discussion type of
debates typically going on here is clearly good sign: you want to keep
your finger on the pulse of Linux. Am I wrong?

It would be great if you felt at home here and did not hesitate to ask
any question you have, even the most basic. I'm sure you will get the
best, freshest, most competent answers from the generally smart bunch
that inhabits this place. It is clear you are influential and widely
read in the industry, so I think you can rely on us (I hope) to keep you
at the bleeding edge of Linux development, should you need it.

As a beginner myself, I haven't had a chance to give back much of what I
have received from the Linux community. Sometimes I am almost ashamed of
not paying for the incredible software I use. Contributing to help you
find the answers would be my good deed...

Cheers.

--

         Louis-David Mitterrand
         (Java page): http://www.zoom.com/mito/quote/

 
 
 

ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

Post by Bill Machro » Thu, 07 Nov 1996 04:00:00



>Dear Bill,
>Since you seem to be quite an active poster here on c.o.l.a I take as a
>sign of either:
>    o You follow-up automatically on every post that mentions "Bill
>      Machrone" somewhere aided by some big ZD search engine.

Don't I wish!

Quote:>    o You *really* are interested in Linux and curious about it, even
>      intrigued maybe.

Yep.

Quote:>It would be great if you felt at home here and did not hesitate to ask
>any question you have, even the most basic. I'm sure you will get the
>best, freshest, most competent answers from the generally smart bunch
>that inhabits this place. It is clear you are influential and widely
>read in the industry, so I think you can rely on us (I hope) to keep you
>at the bleeding edge of Linux development, should you need it.

Thanks.

- Bill (in man-of-few-words mode)

 
 
 

ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

Post by Darin Johns » Thu, 07 Nov 1996 04:00:00


Quote:>I'm sorry that your journalistic experience was so negative and that
>your managing editor was on such an ego trip. Too bad your career
>didn't start at Ziff-Davis.

Actually, things have changed a lot somewhat recently.  Articles that
say something wrong about Microsoft are less likely to be apologetic
about it now.  I remember stuff in the past that compared Macs to
Windows, with Macs winning hands down point by point, with the the
final advice being something like "despite the problems the author
recommends Windows" :-) I was no fan of Macs, but such things would
make me laugh.  Even last year there was a similar article talking
about Win95, and after finding fault with it in paragraph after
paragraph, the conclusion was "buy more memory and upgrade".

Also, technical journalists seem much more technically competent
nowdays in many areas.  PC rags are getting up to the quality of the
old UNIX and VMS rags, where it's much more likely to get advice from
someone who's had years of experience.  I've seen things in the past
from PC advice columns that gave out objectively wrong information.
(even a year ago, when I stopped reading it, the local advice column
was horrendously bad)

Ziff-Davis is even, amazingly, giving news reports about non PC stuff.
I remember back when the San Jose Mercury News, the main newspaper of
silicon valley, home of Apple, Sun, MIPS, Amdahl, AMD, etc, had a
horrendously bad computer section that almost refused to write a
single word about anything other than Wintel (well, DOS was bigger
than Windows then).  Except once a year it might have an issue on
alternative choices.  But never a peep about how the local computer
industry was doing and where things were going - stuff that was
*relevant* news locally (of course, we got the real computer news from
the other sections of the paper :-).  But at the time even the
magazines were just as bad; Byte, the most popular, was a
laughingstock.

An important point is that history counts.  If a reputation is built
up, it isn't discarded overnight.  Many many people have a bad taste
in their mouth from PC publications, including Ziff Davis, from the
past.  The only way to get rid of the reputation is to work hard to
get rid of it, work twice as hard as someone without a reputation.
Just like Microsoft trying to say "we were jerks in the past, but
we're playing fair now"; a couple of Linux articles now doesn't erase
the past.  Heck, Linux is so big you almost have to write an article
about it, so it doesn't cover up past misdeeds of ignoring Linux when
it was newer, ignoring Amiga and OS/2, and treating the PC industry as
composing the entire computer industry.  And any information there is
tends to be free of technical content, it's all business oriented.
Ie, Linux gets reported as a competitor, but no little indication of
why this might be so other than the free software approach.  There's
no confidence that Ziff Davis will be reporting today on the stuff
that will be too big to ingore in the future.  A bad reputation is a
millstone.

--
Darin Johnson

 
 
 

ZD says Linux is good, Linux advocates are idiots

Post by PRN Miami 305-596-21 » Thu, 07 Nov 1996 04:00:00




>>Just imagine the advertising dollar pressures on the folks involved to
>>make sure that the great "unwashed" public thinks the way the paid
>>advertisers want them to.
>Sigh. The old "beholden to advertisers" argument.

It does exist in the majority of media. In most cases reporters
themselves may struggle to be iconoclastic (in their own view) but
the advertising department usually applies as much pressure as
it possibly can to increase advertising sales. This influence is
not always felt directly by reporters. However, if you're out of
step with the editorial direction from on high, then you'd best look
for a position elsewhere or get with the program. In general, "free
software or the GNU Manifesto" is not going to be seen as a topic
that advances the marketplace in a maximally profitable way for
the industry leader and its camp-followers.

Quote:> So we're free to say what we
>think. Even if it's irritated advertisers (and I've bugged enough to
>draw lawsuits, which I'm rather of proud of).

One has to take comfort from one's small victories where one can find
them, sure enough.

Quote:>We're far more beholden to our readers than our advertisers and the
>advertisers understand that.

They may understand that, but some are still 800 pound gorillas.

Quote:>I'm sorry that your journalistic experience was so negative and that
>your managing editor was on such an ego trip. Too bad your career
>didn't start at Ziff-Davis.

Do you think Computer Shopper improved in content when Z-D took it over?
:-)

Best wishes to a fine columnist, in any case.

 
 
 

1. Am I an idiot, or is there just no good backup software?

Am I an idiot, or is there just no good backup software?

Or perhaps I should rephrase that.  Is there no good restore software?

I've been backing up my linux system to a zip drive ever since zips
first appeared, using tar and gzip (full archive, file-system-at-a-time).

And it has worked well for me, except that it takes a fair number of
disks, so I don't do it as often as I might.

I had this goofball idea that I might find a backup package that would
allow me to do a differential backup nightly, on a single disk.

And I've found bunches of tools out there that will do this.  (Well,
most of them support incremental backups, not differential, but I can
live with that.)  Some of them will even handle splitting a backup cross
multiple volumes using arbitrary media (which is what I need with zips.)

But I have yet to find a tool that has decent handling of catastrophic
restores.

Yes, they all are capable of restoring individual files to a working
system that has the backup software properly installed, but not a one
of them, freeware or commercial, seems designed for restoring a system
after a major crash.

What I expect is the ability to take a machine with a bare drive, boot
from floppy, and to reconstruct the system as it was at the last backup.

If I can't do that, what good are my backups, anyway?

Yet all of the backup software I've seen assumes that it will be installed
on a complete running system before it is used.  When that will never
be the case.

Am I just expecting too much?  What do other people do?

--
The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be
regarded as a criminal offence.
                -- Edsger W. Dijkstra, SIGPLAN Notices, Volume 17, Number 5

2. Routing problem

3. Am I a good candidate for Linux?

4. Connecting to ISP

5. This clone thing...am I stupid, or am I right?

6. Solutions for Terminal Server type Scenario

7. Good News!

8. I am with the following error, when i am running lilo...

9. Am I touchy? Or am I right?

10. Am I seeing IPv5, or am I hallucinating?

11. I am buying an Ultra 5 but am lost in part numbers ....

12. I am in text mode, what browser am I running....