Very Computer

Hi,

: We have here a couple of decstation 5000/133 ('3min') stations.

: As we don't have a licence anymore for ultrix for these boxes (rumors tell
: me ultrix will not be net supported very long anymore ???), I was looking
: for a 'free' OS for them.

: I've been looking at the web, and found the following options:
: - Linux/MIPS

Linux/MIPS is still in a very early development stage, i.e. not usable for
the end user ... kernel hackers are always welcome, of course ;-)

: - OpenBSD/pmax

We have OpenBSD running on a couple of 2100/3100's and one 5000/200 here at
Siegen Univ. as well as on some (private) DS 5000/120 at home.

: - NetBSD/pmax.

The largest difference between NetBSD and OpenBSD on the DECstation is that
NetBSD lacked support for shared libraries last time I checked.

: I did found some info on them, but most of it was completely out-of-date.

Hmmm, try:
- Linux: http://www.softway.com.au/people/paul/dec/
- OpenBSD: http://www.openbsd.org
- NetBSD: http://www.netbsd.org

: - What is the most stable OS (at this time).

I'd recommend OpenBSD at the moment. It works quite well on our DECstations
here.

: - Which-one has the best 'support' (read: most programs, most users).

Most free software should compile on either system. Commercial software is
not available for any of the three. OpenBSD claim to have an Ultrix binary
compatibility mode, but we weren't able to get the kernel compiled with
compatibility enabled.

Note that the installation of either NetBSD or OpenBSD is by far not as
easy as Ultrix installation, but you get advantages like NFS V3 etc ...

regards,

[snip]

Quote:>The largest difference between NetBSD and OpenBSD on the DECstation is that
>NetBSD lacked support for shared libraries last time I checked.

[snip]

Quote:>: - Which-one has the best 'support' (read: most programs, most users).

>Most free software should compile on either system. Commercial software is
>not available for any of the three. OpenBSD claim to have an Ultrix binary
>compatibility mode, but we weren't able to get the kernel compiled with
>compatibility enabled.

Quote:>Note that the installation of either NetBSD or OpenBSD is by far not as
>easy as Ultrix installation, but you get advantages like NFS V3 etc ...

--
-Matthew Schnierle

-http://www.iup.edu/~pyld/
-Member, Programmers Local 1036--AFL-CPIO.
-Stomp out Internet Spam.  http://www.vix.com/spam/

: I've been looking at the web, and found the following options:
: - Linux/MIPS
: - OpenBSD/pmax
: - NetBSD/pmax.

: I did found some info on them, but most of it was completely out-of-date.

Do any of these three support X11 on a PMAGD-AA? I've got a very nice
5000/240 sitting in my office keeping me warm, but it'd be nice to use the
19" colour monitor attached to it....
--

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Quote:> This is true.  OpenBSD has a nice script, which walks you thru the process
> (After, of course, the simpleroot has been booted).  The NetBSD/pmax list

Anyway, for a 16MHz 68030 machine with only 4MB memory it is running
astonishingly well even though I'd call it "installed" but not really
"configured".

Greetings,
                                Ripley
--
H. Eckert, 10777 Berlin, Germany
ISO 8859-1: ?=Ae, ?=Oe, =Ue, ?=ae, ?=oe, =ue, ?=sz.
"(Technobabbel)" (Jetrel) - "Mssen wir uns diesen Schwachsinn wirklich
anh?ren?" (Neelix)

Quote:> So far as I know, Linux/MIPS is still in its infancy, although they do have
> a web page and a couple of test kernels.

Quote:> See http://www.softway.com.au/people/paul/dec/

Greetings,
                                Ripley
--
H. Eckert, 10777 Berlin, Germany
ISO 8859-1: ?=Ae, ?=Oe, =Ue, ?=ae, ?=oe, =ue, ?=sz.
"(Technobabbel)" (Jetrel) - "Mssen wir uns diesen Schwachsinn wirklich
anh?ren?" (Neelix)

The PMAG-D has an i860 for doing 3D rendering and (IIRC) an onboard
custom blitter chip. There's some horrid message-passing protocol by
which the DECstation CPU talks to the i860 and starts it. Or maybe
that's for the blitter chip; I forget.  There's some weird address
mapping that goes on in the cards which you have to get right for
software to even acknowledge interrupts (e.g., vertical-retrace).

AFAIK, none of this is documented anymore, anywhere, with the
exception of the Ultrix driver source.  Which, AFAIK, aren't supported in
Ultrix 4.5, so even that option may be gone ;).

And Digital isn't really supporting these little monsters anymore, let
alone anything crazy like selling them.  I don't see any proprietary
gain.  If Maddog could get the PXG drivers released the same way the
QVSS and QDSS drivers were released to CSRG, he'd be doing everyone a
favour.

That said, I have a PMAG-D sitting right in front of me. Maybe in NetbSD 1.4.

Hm.  If I acquire two extra BrookTree Bt459 VDACS and two extra memory
banks for aand plug them into the empty sockets of a PMAG-D, will that
give me truecolour video?

BTW, a microvax-II in a vertical BA23 has a better space heater
emulation mode than the mips boxes :)

I have a DECStation 5000/200 (3MAX) with Turbochannel SCSI (PMAZ) video
PMAGB-BA and PMAD ethernet with KN02 version 5.3t PROMS. 1 RZ55 1 RX56
in expansion.

I'm trying to TFTP boot this from a Linux 2.0.29 pentium with a
network_install diskimage.tar.z untarred into /users/nfs thats exprted
with (rw) and no host name (all access) in /etc/exports. I got this from
the latest snapshot directory. I can TFTP nfsnetbsd.ecoff from this dir
both on the local linux machine and from ultrix on the DS. BOOTP works
too exporting the correct kernel when i "boot 6/tftp -a" from the
console. The DECstation boots the kernel and then tries to NFS mount the
root directory. hmmm.

nfs_boot:Using network interface le0
revarp failed, error=51
cannot mount root,error=5

and then prompts me again for the root device. The transciever on my
pentium flashes recieve so the DEC is asking for something but never
gets a reply. My linux machines got no rarp kernel support
/proc/net/rarp dont exist - does this matter, and my /users/nfs
directory is owned by me (marc) with users group and rwxr-xr-x privs.

Please help - its very frustating seeing it booted with no root. :)
Thanks for listening.

***********************************************************
Marc Tipping - Worksation Support Unilever Research Labs  *

***********************************************************

[ NFS-boot 5000/200 rev 5.3t PROM from Linux machine]

Quote:>a reply. My linux machines got no rarp kernel support
> /proc/net/rarp dont exist - does this matter, and my /users/nfs
> directory is owned by me (marc) with users group and rwxr-xr-x privs.

Not having RARP will stall your kernel.  The DECstation PROMs use
bootp to find their IP address in order to tftp the kernel; but once
the kernel is started it needs both RARP (to tell the NetBSD kernel
its address), and rpc.bootparamd with an entry for root (and for swap,
with 1.2F or older kernels).

Not having either of those (rarp or rpc.bootparamd) will cause you
grief with diskless booting.

really a better place to discuss such issues.