Very Computer

steve mcadams schrieb:

Quote:

> Why I should probably stop wasting my time on linux:
[schnibble]
> One is the install book which told me Disk Druid
> was better than fdisk which is total *since Disk Druid tied my
> partition table in knots that Partition Magic just laughed at, and
> fdisk was able to fix it.
[schnibble]
> On the other hand, if I get lucky and learn how to set this thing up
> (and don't let some jerkoff troll who claims to be 17 years old and
> have set linux up in 15 minutes fool you, because he's either lying
> through his ass or is the world's luckiest person)

[schnibble]

1. Watch your language.
2. Read this (quoting the c.o.l.a Frequently Rehashed Topics, section
2):

Anyway, not all installation experiences are homogenous, major
problems installing an OS can happen with every OS in this world. The
best you can do is inform yourself on the appropriate Web sites and
newsgroups, in books and freely available documentation so you are
well-prepared when installing Linux. This may significantly reduce if
not eliminate your installation difficulties. Currently, you must be
literate to use Linux. There is no way around it. For some of us,
installing Linux was a breeze; for others, it was torture. Installing
an OS is often a delicate task, no matter which flavour.

The mere fact that some Linux installations can be more difficult than
others will not have a detrimental effect on Linux in general.  All
currently utilized Linux systems have been installed, and once someone
has installed a system they generally find that "it really wasn't that
bad".

Finally, please take note that nearly every Linux distributor, be they
a company (like Red Hat or SuSE) or a free project (like Debian),
works ceaselessly on making Linux installations easier. For those who
don't want to deal with a Linux installation at all, there are several
companies who sell computers with Linux pre-installed, making sure
that all the hardware components are well-supported.

3. Hope that helps.
4. I am 17. Linux was easy to set up for me.
5. X-Post & Flup2 comp.os.linux.advocacy

mawa
--

My Geek Code is no longer in my .signature. It's available on e-mail
request. It's sad to live in a world where knowing how to programme
your VCR actually lowers your social status...

Quote:> steve mcadams schrieb:

>> Why I should probably stop wasting my time on linux:
> [schnibble]
>> One is the install book which told me Disk Druid
>> was better than fdisk which is total *since Disk Druid tied my
>> partition table in knots that Partition Magic just laughed at, and
>> fdisk was able to fix it.
> [schnibble]
>> On the other hand, if I get lucky and learn how to set this thing up
>> (and don't let some jerkoff troll who claims to be 17 years old and
>> have set linux up in 15 minutes fool you, because he's either lying
>> through his ass or is the world's luckiest person)
> [schnibble]

> 1. Watch your language.
> 2. Read this (quoting the c.o.l.a Frequently Rehashed Topics, section
> 2):

> Anyway, not all installation experiences are homogenous, major
> problems installing an OS can happen with every OS in this world. The
> best you can do is inform yourself on the appropriate Web sites and
> newsgroups, in books and freely available documentation so you are
> well-prepared when installing Linux. This may significantly reduce if
> not eliminate your installation difficulties. Currently, you must be
> literate to use Linux. There is no way around it. For some of us,
> installing Linux was a breeze; for others, it was torture. Installing
> an OS is often a delicate task, no matter which flavour.

> The mere fact that some Linux installations can be more difficult than
> others will not have a detrimental effect on Linux in general.  All
> currently utilized Linux systems have been installed, and once someone
> has installed a system they generally find that "it really wasn't that
> bad".

> Finally, please take note that nearly every Linux distributor, be they
> a company (like Red Hat or SuSE) or a free project (like Debian),
> works ceaselessly on making Linux installations easier. For those who
> don't want to deal with a Linux installation at all, there are several
> companies who sell computers with Linux pre-installed, making sure
> that all the hardware components are well-supported.

> 3. Hope that helps.
> 4. I am 17. Linux was easy to set up for me.
> 5. X-Post & Flup2 comp.os.linux.advocacy

> mawa

I would just like to respond to this.  

6)  I have witnessed three win98 installs.  One has worked.  All three installs were done by extremely competent computer users.  In fact, the two that failed were done by a person who knows windoze better than anyone I have ever met.

7)  I'm six*, I use S.u.S.E. 5.3, it sets up like a dream.  Thank you.

--
Jeff

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Knowledge=Power, Time=Money &
Power = Work/Time; then:
Knowledge=Work/Money,
solve for money,
Money=Work/Knowledge; then
As Knowledge approaches 0,
Money approaches infinity,
so The less you know, the more
money you have.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

<quote snip>

Quote:> I would just like to respond to this.

> 6)  I have witnessed three win98 installs.  One has worked.  All three installs
> were done by extremely competent computer users.  In fact, the two that failed were
> done by a person who knows windoze better than anyone I have ever met.

> 7)  I'm six*, I use S.u.S.E. 5.3, it sets up like a dream.  Thank you.

<sig snip>
And in this spirit of one-upmanship:

8. I'm six*, and I use Slackware, and my first install was when I
was 13, and it set up like a dream.

9. We just had an excellent quote from frequently rehashed topics.
There's no need to go and trash Wind*ws's install and plug Linux's
install.  Experiences vary.  A lot of it depends on prior experience.
Just read up and try it yourself.  I personally haven't had much
trouble with Linux, but get over it if some people who are actually
not stupid do.   Now if that person goes and blames all of the Linux
community and free software for it that is wrong, but countering it
with "you're an idiot and you're wrong," be it explicit or implicit,
will only harden their heart and help create more microdrones to rove
the planet until we all become subversives in a fascist state.

10. Unfortunately, your installation expertise has not extended to
configuring knews to wrap lines, or to snipping huge irrelevent
quotes, or to using concise sigs.  Sheesh, isn't there something wrong
when I get 6 lines of content out of 73 lines of (com)posting?

Nate

[ I'm eigh*, and I don't know what I want :-) ]

OK, I'll drop in my two cents here:

I'm 42 (no, it's not a joke) and I installed Red Hat 5.2 all by myself
using their "Server Install".

The last time I installed Unix, I had a Cray Engineer on site to compute
the blocks and offsets for me.

--

Saturnushof 14, 3738 XG  Maartensdijk, The Netherlands
Phone: +31 346 214290; Fax: +31 346 214286

On Fri, 18 Dec 1998 23:36:53 this was flung..

Quote:>> 7)  I'm six*, I use S.u.S.E. 5.3, it sets up like a
>> dream.  Thank you.
>[ I'm eigh*, and I don't know what I want :-) ]

I just fell out of the womb. I'm covered with placenta and crusty
* but I just setup an Intranet for the "Society for Retro-active
*" using Linux and samba in hopes that post's like the above
wither and die.

Quote:> >> 7)  I'm six*, I use S.u.S.E. 5.3, it sets up like a
> >> dream.  Thank you.

> >[ I'm eigh*, and I don't know what I want :-) ]

> I just fell out of the womb. I'm covered with placenta and crusty
> * but I just setup an Intranet for the "Society for Retro-active
> *" using Linux and samba in hopes that post's like the above
> wither and die.

What's Linux?
http://www.veryComputer.com/

Quote:>6)  I have witnessed three win98 installs.  One has worked.  All three

installs were done by extremely competent computer users.  In fact, the two
that failed were done by a person who knows windoze better than anyone I
have ever met.

I worked in tech support for six years, and I can tell you that there is no
more fear-inducing phrase than "my friend who knows windows really well was
doing something...".

I've done literally hundreds of Windows installations over time. The vast
majority were easy setups. Maybe 2% went quite wrong. Maybe an additional 3%
had minor glitches that would have stymied a new end-user.

95% (just a guess - never really kept track) would be an admirable feat for
linux with X. Talk to anybody with brand-new hardware about linux
installations. I still await a vortex audio driver, and my Riva 128ZX-based
video card needed a new X-server in order to see the entire 8MB of video
memory.

   *cackle*

   "Linux is only free if your time is worthless"

   Of course, it's all wrong, but Don is still a babe and the pages have
   got plenty of soundbites to*people off with.

                 ____
   david parsons \bi/ Snicker.
                  \/

    So you're saying that the display is the biggest problem with
    installing Linux for you?  Would an installation that (on a
    SVGA capable system) comes up in 640x480x16 colors be suitable
    to be called a successful install?

                  ____
    david parsons \bi/    Of course you're still stuck with X, but
                   \/  this would at least give a working graphics
                                                              tube.

Quote:

> I worked in tech support for six years, and I can tell you that there is no
> more fear-inducing phrase than "my friend who knows windows really well was
> doing something...".

Amen to that brother.

Quote:> I've done literally hundreds of Windows installations over time. The vast
> majority were easy setups. Maybe 2% went quite wrong. Maybe an additional 3%
> had minor glitches that would have stymied a new end-user.

> 95% (just a guess - never really kept track) would be an admirable feat for
> linux with X. Talk to anybody with brand-new hardware about linux
> installations. I still await a vortex audio driver, and my Riva 128ZX-based
> video card needed a new X-server in order to see the entire 8MB of video
> memory.

New hardware support in Linux is slow. Please don't jump down my throat
I'm only learning how to write h/w drivers and I'll wait till I'm
competent till I unleash my drivel upon the community.

Trying to get h/w vendors to divvy out specs is a real pain. Even my
employers were very tight lipped about the i740 chipset. Also it
probably
contradicts some *y confidentiality clause in my empolyment to
relaese the soruce code. Despite their new found affection for red hat
trying to get specs for the 1740 chip set was a waste of time. It pissed
my managers boss off no end, can't of been a complete wast of time then

Sean

Disclaimer. These are my opinions not those of my employer.

Quote:>>95% (just a guess - never really kept track) would be an admirable feat
for
>>linux with X. Talk to anybody with brand-new hardware about linux
>>installations. I still await a vortex audio driver, and my Riva
128ZX-based
>>video card needed a new X-server in order to see the entire 8MB of video
>>memory.

>    So you're saying that the display is the biggest problem with
>    installing Linux for you?  Would an installation that (on a
>    SVGA capable system) comes up in 640x480x16 colors be suitable
>    to be called a successful install?

Actually the sound was/is the biggest problem currently, only because it's
actually not working (for now). But I would not consider an installation
successful if the only resolution supported is 640x480x16 - too many things
now expect your display to be larger. Many web pages are actually optimized
for 800x600 or larger.

Quote:>New hardware support in Linux is slow. Please don't jump down my throat
>I'm only learning how to write h/w drivers and I'll wait till I'm
>competent till I unleash my drivel upon the community.

Not to worry - I agree completely.

Quote:>Trying to get h/w vendors to divvy out specs is a real pain. Even my
>employers were very tight lipped about the i740 chipset. Also it
>probably
>contradicts some *y confidentiality clause in my empolyment to
>relaese the soruce code. Despite their new found affection for red hat
>trying to get specs for the 1740 chip set was a waste of time. It pissed
>my managers boss off no end, can't of been a complete wast of time then

That's a good reason (and an ongoing one). The result, though, is
unchanged - linux still suffers due to lack of hardware vendor support.

    Okay.  I'm thinking of some of the recent installs I've done with
    Windows 95 and NT -- after I load the CD, it gives me (except in the
    case of older video cards like S3 cards) a 640x480x16 screen, which
    I can then update by installing the vendor-supported driver.  I can
    do at least the install part on Linux, which will bring me closer to
    parity with a Win9x install.

    Sound is still a lost cause, alas.

                  ____
    david parsons \bi/ `SuperProbe -ba' is your friend.
                   \/

Yes I know that and thats cool. Intel make the i740 chip, I'm their
employee, I want to write a drver to expand the possible market share of
their product, yeah, they still won't give me the specs on how the chip
talks to the rest of the system. i mean getting the PCI spec is easy
enough but it really annoys me to see companys shooting themselves in
the foot. I didn't even want to get paid for it.i wanted to do it on my
own time. I just wanted to write the driver so all the linux folks out
there could use the card with i740
chips to their potential. I wanted to write the driver for X, for the
i740 chipset.

As employers Intel have been in my experience excellent to work for, but
in this case they have their head stuck up their arse.

Sean

I prefer System Commander to both

Quote:> [schnibble]
> > On the other hand, if I get lucky and learn how to set this thing up
> > (and don't let some jerkoff troll who claims to be 17 years old and
> > have set linux up in 15 minutes fool you, because he's either lying
> > through his ass or is the world's luckiest person)

I'm 16, though it takes longer than 15 minutes I've set up Linux roughly
9 or 10 times.  One weekend I got bored, moved some stuff around on my
Windows drive, deleted a partition, installed Linux, got X running, then
removed the partition and switched back to Windows, all in under 2 days.

--

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Great spirits often encounter * opposition from mediocre minds.
                                               -- Albert Einstein