Linux is an amazing OS...

Linux is an amazing OS...

Post by Donn Mille » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



How do they manage to put out an operating system as high quality
as Linux for practically nothing?  On another note, I wonder how
Microsoft/Windows got to be so popular?  I hold the opinion that
it wasn't by making high-quality software.  I'd say it is a
combination of luck, timing, and advertising.

Another possible explanation is that people just don't know any
better;  they just buy whatever's popular or whatever comes
installed on their machine.  Maybe this is just a biased opinion,
but I would like to see more people learn to use Linux.  The
people I hate, well, I hope they continue to use Windows.

Sorry, I'm just fed up with Microsoft and Windows.  Sometimes the
best things are life are free, like Linux and BSD!  Yaa!

- Donn

 
 
 

Linux is an amazing OS...

Post by Lance Falli » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


Hey Donn,

I remember when I first got windows....well actually...the REASON was
because it was already on my PC...I had bought a new AST 486 dx/2 66mhz
with something like 16 megs of ram, a less than 33.6 bps data/fax modem
and a 540 meg HD hehehe. But yeah...there wasn't much choice as far as I
was aware at the time.
I just thought that Windows was it...I did know about Mac...but there
were no macs for sale.(small town in rural Arizona at the time) .and
well...there was so much awareness about windows and it was fairly
reasonable...abundant software, lots of freeware and shareware
and...again...it was already on my pc when I bought it brand new.

I don't hate windows users....I think...hey...to each his/her
own...whatever works...I *am* getting tired of all the slamming...even
though I realize that this is an open forum. I'm a newbie to linux and
enjoy it so far...but for now I still keep windows on my box too...I
might be going all linux in the near future though...it all depends. It
doesn't matter what people say...if an os is to be had and it is
something that I CAN use and ENJOY using and learning about...then I
will use it...they can slam all they want...it won't sway me one bit. I
see nothing wrong with having both...my dream is to have a Mac too and
maybe even <gasp!> an amiga...but I can't afford all of that right now.
I like CHOICES...and I reserve the right to make my own choices and use
what best suits MY needs.

All of that said though...yeah Linux is truly amazing to me also.
Although some things in Windows did give me a nudge to try something
else, Linux was handy
and it works, works good for me.

nuff said...Lance Fallin
Well tomorrow starts my work week so that's why I have posted as much as
I have today,
after today I'll be slow in responding to anything. Plus this is like
practice on the Linux side of my HD  :)


> How do they manage to put out an operating system as high quality
> as Linux for practically nothing?  On another note, I wonder how
> Microsoft/Windows got to be so popular?  I hold the opinion that
> it wasn't by making high-quality software.  I'd say it is a
> combination of luck, timing, and advertising.

> Another possible explanation is that people just don't know any
> better;  they just buy whatever's popular or whatever comes
> installed on their machine.  Maybe this is just a biased opinion,
> but I would like to see more people learn to use Linux.  The
> people I hate, well, I hope they continue to use Windows.

> Sorry, I'm just fed up with Microsoft and Windows.  Sometimes the
> best things are life are free, like Linux and BSD!  Yaa!

> - Donn


 
 
 

Linux is an amazing OS...

Post by Donn Mille » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00




> >Sorry, I'm just fed up with Microsoft and Windows.  Sometimes the
> >best things are life are free, like Linux and BSD!  Yaa!

> Yep, I'd say you're a troll.

> Hope this helps

Actaully, I am a troll, that is right.  My real name is Don
Miller, so I add an extra `n' to my name to hide my identity.
;-^)

- Donn

 
 
 

Linux is an amazing OS...

Post by Chad Mulliga » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00







> [-snip-]

> > >>Sorry, I'm just fed up with Microsoft and Windows.  Sometimes the
> > >>best things are life are free, like Linux and BSD!  Yaa!

> > >Yep, I'd say you're a troll.

> > Yeah, you'd have to be a troll to advocate Linux in
> > comp.os.linux.advocacy...

> Actually, I wasn't trolling.  I was merely spreading FUD against
> Microsoft.

> - Donn

You'd probably got better responses if you'd posted to COMNA instead of
COLA.  ;^p
 
 
 

Linux is an amazing OS...

Post by Chad Mulliga » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00







> > > > Yeah, you'd have to be a troll to advocate Linux in
> > > > comp.os.linux.advocacy...

> > > Actually, I wasn't trolling.  I was merely spreading FUD against
> > > Microsoft.

> > You'd probably got better responses if you'd posted to COMNA instead of
> > COLA.  ;^p

> Ah, yes - the old "Post to the opposite advocacy newsgroup
> trick." ;^)  One trick that works for me is to cross-post to
> COMNA.  Normally, this is bad netiquette.  However, some reasons
> to do it:

> 1.)  Almost every post originally from COLA ends up cross-posted
> there anyway

40-50% anyway.

Quote:> 2.)  There are equal numbers of Linux and Windows advocates mixed
> in COLA and COMNA

An most of us use both OS's

Quote:> 3.)  Every time I read a post in COMNA, I could have sworn I saw
> the same post in COLA

My news reader marks the posts read in both groups when I read messages.

Quote:> 4.)  You're not cool or hip unless you cross-post to both NGs

Some cross pollenation is good for the creative juices. For instance I won't
say anything bad about COLA without cross posting it there.  When I find
COLA threads that are FUD'ing NT that aren't cross posted I'll do it to make
sure of responses.

Quote:> 5.)  Jerry only responds to cross-posted messages

Wooo.

- Show quoted text -

Quote:

> - Donn

 
 
 

Linux is an amazing OS...

Post by pidd » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00




Quote:>How do they manage to put out an operating system as high quality
>as Linux for practically nothing?  On another note, I wonder how
>Microsoft/Windows got to be so popular?  I hold the opinion that
>it wasn't by making high-quality software.  I'd say it is a
>combination of luck, timing, and advertising.

>Another possible explanation is that people just don't know any
>better;  they just buy whatever's popular or whatever comes
>installed on their machine.  Maybe this is just a biased opinion,
>but I would like to see more people learn to use Linux.  The
>people I hate, well, I hope they continue to use Windows.

>Sorry, I'm just fed up with Microsoft and Windows.  Sometimes the
>best things are life are free, like Linux and BSD!  Yaa!

Yep, I'd say you're a troll.

Hope this helps

piddy

 
 
 

Linux is an amazing OS...

Post by mlw » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> How do they manage to put out an operating system as high quality
> as Linux for practically nothing?  On another note, I wonder how
> Microsoft/Windows got to be so popular?  I hold the opinion that
> it wasn't by making high-quality software.  I'd say it is a
> combination of luck, timing, and advertising.

> Another possible explanation is that people just don't know any
> better;  they just buy whatever's popular or whatever comes
> installed on their machine.  Maybe this is just a biased opinion,
> but I would like to see more people learn to use Linux.  The
> people I hate, well, I hope they continue to use Windows.

> Sorry, I'm just fed up with Microsoft and Windows.  Sometimes the
> best things are life are free, like Linux and BSD!  Yaa!

Having seen the evolution of CP/M through Windows NT first hand (I have
developed software on each incarnation) I think I have an idea, it is of
course, my opinion, so take it for what you think its worth.

CP/M was Digital Researches bastardization of a DEC OS for Intel 8080
and Zylog Z80 types of processors. CP/M was good because, until that
time, your only (practical) choice for computing was a mainframe.

IBM Wanted to get into the "little" computer market. The slapped
together a piece of *known as the IBM PC. They needed an OS, the
tried got get CP/M and for various apocryphal reasons could not.

Bill Gates knew of Seattle Computers QDOS (Quick an dirty DOS) which was
a clone of CP/M for the Intel 8088. Gates bought the rights for $50,000.
DOS was good in that it was fairly easy to port CP/M program because
many of the constructs were the same. (FCBs, console I/O, etc)

( Now is where the fun begins)

Bill et. al. managed to be non-exclusive with IBM, this opened the
market for "clones." Clones bought MS-DOS while PCs had PC-DOS. There
were subtle differences, but the standard was PC-DOS.

Then something interesting happened, the clones started out numbering
the genuine PC. IBM made some mistakes, the P.C. Jr. for instance.
Eventually MS-DOS not PC-DOS became the standard.

Another interesting thing happened. MS-DOS 2.0 was subtly incompatible
with MS/PC-DOS 1.0. MS-DOS 2.0 added more features, so one had to have
it. This resulted in the end user channel OS market for Microsoft. ISV's
noticed that when MS-DOS changed, the latest version of their software
that supported the new features would sell better. So you see where this
is going, right?

This is where Microsoft must have realized its market. I will not use
the term "improve" because that assumes something has been fixed as well
as had features added. Microsoft kept adding features to MS-DOS, these
features drove purchases, purchases of new OS versions also drove
purchases of applications. The money was in features (still is) not in
quality.

The ISVs didn't complain because they were selling software.
The hardware vendors didn't complain because they could sell more
hardware.
The customers were in love with this new toy that could make their job
easier.

Microsoft also noticed with OS/2 that subtle incompatibilities promoted
sales, but, huge incompatibilities killed sales. A user that used 30
program, who upgraded a computer OS, and 90% of his programs work, is
one who will buy the new versions of the remaining 10% A person who goes
to a new OS and has none of his old programs will go back.

So Microsoft found itself in a pitiably and envious position. Microsoft
will never make a "new" or revolutionary product, because it would hurt
sales, however, Microsoft has a license to print money until Windows is
completely unworkable.

Up until, about, 3 years ago Microsoft was growing to world *.
They believed, as did everyone else, that it was inevitable. In the last
three years I have seen a substantial change in the view of software
engineers. 3 years ago, the attitude was "Windows, and if we have time
Mac." These days every single engineer I speak with has some plan on the
back burner for supporting systems other than Windows. Most of them are
"skunk-working" the product technology for Linux or FreeBSD.

So today you can look around at the ISV market and say Windows has
everything, but the visionaries and the engineers, the ones that make
the software, are actively preparing for the day that other operating
systems are revenue streams.

There will be people that will disagree, but thats OK their experiences
could be different from mine.

--
Mohawk Software
Windows 95, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit http://www.veryComputer.com/

 
 
 

Linux is an amazing OS...

Post by Jeff Pa » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00





>>How do they manage to put out an operating system as high quality
>>as Linux for practically nothing?  On another note, I wonder how
>>Microsoft/Windows got to be so popular?  I hold the opinion that
>>it wasn't by making high-quality software.  I'd say it is a
>>combination of luck, timing, and advertising.

>>Another possible explanation is that people just don't know any
>>better;  they just buy whatever's popular or whatever comes
>>installed on their machine.  Maybe this is just a biased opinion,
>>but I would like to see more people learn to use Linux.  The
>>people I hate, well, I hope they continue to use Windows.

>>Sorry, I'm just fed up with Microsoft and Windows.  Sometimes the
>>best things are life are free, like Linux and BSD!  Yaa!

>Yep, I'd say you're a troll.

Yeah, you'd have to be a troll to advocate Linux in
comp.os.linux.advocacy...

Jeff

 
 
 

Linux is an amazing OS...

Post by Donn Mille » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00







[-snip-]

Quote:> >>Sorry, I'm just fed up with Microsoft and Windows.  Sometimes the
> >>best things are life are free, like Linux and BSD!  Yaa!

> >Yep, I'd say you're a troll.

> Yeah, you'd have to be a troll to advocate Linux in
> comp.os.linux.advocacy...

Actually, I wasn't trolling.  I was merely spreading FUD against
Microsoft.

- Donn

 
 
 

Linux is an amazing OS...

Post by Donn Mille » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00






> > > Yeah, you'd have to be a troll to advocate Linux in
> > > comp.os.linux.advocacy...

> > Actually, I wasn't trolling.  I was merely spreading FUD against
> > Microsoft.

> You'd probably got better responses if you'd posted to COMNA instead of
> COLA.  ;^p

Ah, yes - the old "Post to the opposite advocacy newsgroup
trick." ;^)  One trick that works for me is to cross-post to
COMNA.  Normally, this is bad netiquette.  However, some reasons
to do it:

1.)  Almost every post originally from COLA ends up cross-posted
there anyway
2.)  There are equal numbers of Linux and Windows advocates mixed
in COLA and COMNA
3.)  Every time I read a post in COMNA, I could have sworn I saw
the same post in COLA
4.)  You're not cool or hip unless you cross-post to both NGs
5.)  Jerry only responds to cross-posted messages

- Donn

 
 
 

Linux is an amazing OS...

Post by Truckasauru » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00




Quote:

> Ah, yes - the old "Post to the opposite advocacy newsgroup
> trick." ;^)  One trick that works for me is to cross-post to
> COMNA.  Normally, this is bad netiquette.  However, some reasons

Bad netiquette? In the dk.* hierarchy, it is good netiquette to cross-
or repost to the proper NG, if a posting ends up in the 'wrong' NG.
And I really can't see what pure NT advocacy posting (say) has to do in
COLA.

--
"When you're looking for a *LUG, you might overlook a *GNUX!"
 - Martin A. Boegelund, 1999

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

 
 
 

Linux is an amazing OS...

Post by Arthu » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> For instance I won't say anything bad about COLA without cross posting it there.

Awww, Chad - you're so cute when you lie!

:Begin Insert:
Forum: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Cross-posted: no
Subject: Worried about COLA
Date: 1999/08/17

| Hey guys:

| You know what, I'm getting sort of worried about all the
| kiddies in COLA.  Have you noticed some of the thread titles
| there lately? I think all this competition and losing all
| the time is making them paranoid.

{snip bulk of dumb post]

| *** Notice I didn't cross post this [...] *** {emphasis added]
:End Insert:

:Begin Insert:
Forum: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Cross-posted: no
Subject: Paranoia and the GPL
Date: 1999/09/22

| Hey guys;

| Have any of you been lurking in COLA lately.  Its getting really wierd
| there.  They've given up on the Microsoft * theories for a
| while. Want to know why?

{snip bulk of another dumb post]
:End Insert:

Arthur

 
 
 

Linux is an amazing OS...

Post by Rich Cloutie » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



>How do they manage to put out an operating system as high quality
>as Linux for practically nothing?

Because they acknowledge bugs as they come along and FIX them. There is no
marketing "image" or profit margin to maintain, such that is is desireable
to sweep the bugs under the carpet and release the fixes along with a
version upgrade they can charge for.

I've had many personal experiences of MS and other Windows software (and
Win-ware) vendors play stupid when I reported a bug to them, and then a few
months later a fix for the very problem I reported miraculously appears on
their web sites.

Quote:>On another note, I wonder how
>Microsoft/Windows got to be so popular?  I hold the opinion that
>it wasn't by making high-quality software.  I'd say it is a
>combination of luck, timing, and advertising.

Don't forget forcing interoperability problems. (Dr. DOS and PC-DOS.) Don't
forget redesigning the guts of the OS just as other shell makers and third
party software companies were gaining market share (PC Tools for Windows had
a nice 3.1 shell that I used for a few years.....even had a cool scripting
language.)

Quote:

>Another possible explanation is that people just don't know any
>better;  they just buy whatever's popular or whatever comes
>installed on their machine.  Maybe this is just a biased opinion,
>but I would like to see more people learn to use Linux.  The
>people I hate, well, I hope they continue to use Windows.

Well, I will continue to use BOTH. Despite all I have said above, and
despite how much I like Linux, I hope it NEVER completely replaces Windows.
I think each OS should thrive on its strengths, and continue to coexist.
This will force an increase in interoperability, as more and more companies
use multi-platform business solutions. Right now I HATE the fact that Linux
needs Samba to be seen on a Windows network, and that you need third party
software to make a Mac talk to a PC, even though they are all on a TCP/IP
network. I LOVE the fact that Linux supports so many file systems and that
you can mount a DOS or FAT32 or NTFS partition on your Linux machine and
have it available over  the network.

Quote:

>Sorry, I'm just fed up with Microsoft and Windows.  Sometimes the
>best things are life are free, like Linux and BSD!  Yaa!

When MS realizes they can't crush Linux out of existence, they will be
forced to clean up their act. At least this is my hope.

Rich C.

"Beer is God's way of telling us he loves us and wants us to be  happy."
--Benjamin Franklin

To reply by email, remove the "abc_" from my address.

 
 
 

Linux is an amazing OS...

Post by Drestin Blac » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


Actually what I'm laughing at here is the subject line of this post (and
many others in COLA).

I've never seen a newsgroup filled with so many cultists that just feel the
NEED to have to post cheer-me-up subject lines and bolster their own OS so
much. Why do they need to do this? If someone doesn't keep the "wave" going
will it just wash out? Weird... silly...



> > For instance I won't say anything bad about COLA without cross posting
it there.

> Awww, Chad - you're so cute when you lie!

> :Begin Insert:
> Forum: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
> Cross-posted: no
> Subject: Worried about COLA
> Date: 1999/08/17

> | Hey guys:

> | You know what, I'm getting sort of worried about all the
> | kiddies in COLA.  Have you noticed some of the thread titles
> | there lately? I think all this competition and losing all
> | the time is making them paranoid.

> {snip bulk of dumb post]

> | *** Notice I didn't cross post this [...] *** {emphasis added]
> :End Insert:

> :Begin Insert:
> Forum: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
> Cross-posted: no
> Subject: Paranoia and the GPL
> Date: 1999/09/22

> | Hey guys;

> | Have any of you been lurking in COLA lately.  Its getting really wierd
> | there.  They've given up on the Microsoft * theories for a
> | while. Want to know why?

> {snip bulk of another dumb post]
> :End Insert:

> Arthur

 
 
 

Linux is an amazing OS...

Post by Rich Idl » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> I've never seen a newsgroup filled with so many cultists that just feel the
> NEED to have to post cheer-me-up subject lines and bolster their own OS so
> much. Why do they need to do this? If someone doesn't keep the "wave" going
> will it just wash out? Weird... silly...

You should have been around comp.sys.amiga.advocacy some years back.

The linux crowd has something real to be e*d about (unlike to poor
Windows drones who have only another long list of bugs to look forward
to when Win2k comes out).

Linux is going to do very well for itself, and nothing you can say will
change that. I suspect that you already know this, otherwise why would
you be here?

It's always nice to be rooting for the winning team and that's what this
newsgroup is all about.

---
    end users who can barely grasp Win9x (yes, it's that bad) might
    have a hard time with Win2K    - Chad Myers.
---