DOJ says Linux no competition to MS

DOJ says Linux no competition to MS

Post by John De Ho » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



Did you see this news today? At the DOJ versus MS trial, the government
lawyer disputed claims that Linux or BeOS are threats to Microsoft. Here
are some excerpts. (Of course lawyers will claim anything if they think
it will help their case. But it sounds almost like he is blaming the
Linux community for this situation, which in a sense plays into MS's
hand, since MS can claim that its * is due to the failure of the
competition to come up with viable alternatives.)

"Schmalensee...asserted that two operating systems, one called Linux and
another developed by the firm Be Inc., could one day become popular
enough to topple Windows. That threat, the witness maintained, means
that Microsoft does not have the sort of long-term market clout to which
antitrust laws apply.

"Boies disputed Schmalensee's prediction, noting that Linux is
difficult for most ordinary computer users to install. "In looking at
the (Linux) box, did you notice how long the installation manual was?"
Boies said to the witness. "Would it surprise you to know that it was
300 pages long?"

"The attorney also argued that the Linux and Be operating systems have
only a fraction of the software that Windows has, making them less
attractive to computer users."

He said it, not me. My own opinion is a bit different, for those who are
interested. Personally, I don't think difficult installation is a major
problem with Linux. Assuming your hardware is supported, a SUSE 5.3 or
recent Redhat Linux installation is a piece of cake. The real problem is
that Linux is more difficult to administer than Windows NT by people who
are not professional Unix administrators, which is most of the SOHO
market and most home users. Applications are a problem only if you are
forced to use particular applications that are not available for Linux,
but again, that includes quite a few users. On balance I think Linux
could be a real threat to MS in certain situations. It's a threat
already in the Internet server arena. It's also quite conceivable, for
example, that certain large companies could decide to change over
entirely to Linux and other free software in order to avoid paying
per-seat charges for software use. In fact, it's already happening in
some places. Better clue in the DOJ lawyer, folks.
--
John De Hoog
http://www.veryComputer.com/

 
 
 

DOJ says Linux no competition to MS

Post by Jack Bras » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


I think the real reason linux will not be a competitor to Windows is
you can not go to the local computer store or buy online(gateway,
dell, compaq, ibm) a new computer with linux preinstalled.

Basically there is no choice!

How many non techicnal people install the os on the machine they buy?

How many people upgrade their os? Most people just buy a new machine
with the latest version of windows.

jack

 
 
 

DOJ says Linux no competition to MS

Post by Mike Mayoro » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


You can purchase systems with Linux pre installed, I think it's either
Compaq or Dell, Intergraph is defiantly doing it and many VAR's will do
it, go to http://www.linux.org/vendors/systems.html  At my local Best
Buy (Victorville CA) they are selling the boxed Red Hat with the util's
right next to M$ Windoze NT.
 
 
 

DOJ says Linux no competition to MS

Post by Tim Smi » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



>I think the real reason linux will not be a competitor to Windows is
>you can not go to the local computer store or buy online(gateway,
>dell, compaq, ibm) a new computer with linux preinstalled.

>Basically there is no choice!

Well, if you are terminally stupid, you can't buy a machine online with
Linux preinstalled.  If you have the brains to use a web browser,
however, it is trivial in 5 minutes to find several places selling
preinstalled Linux system.

--Tim Smith

 
 
 

DOJ says Linux no competition to MS

Post by David Steube » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


Did you check the fine print for Dell?  You have to buy 50 machines if
you want Linux pre-installed.

--
David Steuber
http://www.david-steuber.com
s/trashcan/david/ to reply by mail

"Hackers penetrate and ravage delicate, private, and publicly owned
computer systems, infecting them with viruses and stealing materials
for their own ends.  These people, they're, they're  terrorists."

-- Secret Service Agent Richard Gill

 
 
 

DOJ says Linux no competition to MS

Post by Jim Richards » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


On 14 Jan 1999 20:28:48 -0800,
 Tim Smith  


>>I think the real reason linux will not be a competitor to Windows is
>>you can not go to the local computer store or buy online(gateway,
>>dell, compaq, ibm) a new computer with linux preinstalled.

>>Basically there is no choice!

>Well, if you are terminally stupid, you can't buy a machine online with
>Linux preinstalled.  If you have the brains to use a web browser,
>however, it is trivial in 5 minutes to find several places selling
>preinstalled Linux system.

>--Tim Smith

Except Compaq just announced that they will be offering Linux
pre-installed on their server models, and Dell, will sell you
Linux pre-installed, even if it is only in quantity.
(lest we forget, there are also numerous companies that offer
linux pre-installed, VA research, LHS etc. )

--
Jim Richardson
        Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
        Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.

 
 
 

DOJ says Linux no competition to MS

Post by Navindra Umane » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


What would be funny is if (1) the DOJ proves in court that Linux is no
threat to Microsoft and (2) Linux goes and decimates Microsoft's
market anyway.

-N.
--
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these files can be viewed in any text editor, including all versions of
Microsoft Word, WordPad, and Microsoft Word Viewer."  [Microsoft website]
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DOJ says Linux no competition to MS

Post by bob_bill_.. » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



Quote:

>Except Compaq just announced that they will be offering Linux
>pre-installed on their server models, and Dell, will sell you
>Linux pre-installed, even if it is only in quantity.

ok, I'll call DELL first thing monday morning and ask the salesperson
to sell my a PC with Linux installed and will see what happens and
will report back here.

I'll bet you anything the guy will have a blank look at his/her face
when I say that.

Last time I asked a DELL sales person representitve, he answer was:

"what is Linux?"

Bob (not * please. Just plain Bob. also Bill is ok).

 
 
 

DOJ says Linux no competition to MS

Post by bob_bill_.. » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



Quote:

>Did you check the fine print for Dell?  You have to buy 50 machines if
>you want Linux pre-installed.

Aha!

I knew it could not possibly be true that DELL will install Linux on the
PC just nilly willy like that !

The above proofs my point !!

Bob

 
 
 

DOJ says Linux no competition to MS

Post by Glenn Log » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00





>>Did you check the fine print for Dell?  You have to buy 50 machines if
>>you want Linux pre-installed.

>Aha!
>I knew it could not possibly be true that DELL will install Linux on the
>PC just nilly willy like that !
>The above proofs my point !!
>Bob

You had a point?  I thought you were just being argumentative.  

The first post you responded to contained the caveat that you had to purchase
PC's in quantity to get Linux installed.

--

Team OS/2       Linux   http://www.iglou.com/homepages/glogan

 
 
 

DOJ says Linux no competition to MS

Post by Bloody Vikin » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


: How many non techicnal people install the os on the machine they buy?

: How many people upgrade their os? Most people just buy a new machine
: with the latest version of windows.

That is basically the problem. Only a few people will like Linux who
aren't computer professionals. I'm one of the few non-computer-pro type
Linux user. Why Linux is popular on the Internet is becuse a lot of
Internet users are computer professionals and UNIX in general is the
"language" of the Internet. I originally got turned on to Linux by having
used UNIX Shell Accounts. I merely wanted UNIX for the PC. :)

Since I'm used to a command line, Linux is a great choice. I treat UNIX as
a "wierd DOS" but I like it much better than DOS becuse of the free
software. Since I don't earn money by the truckload, I like the cost of
freeware, which is zero. I use the words "Linux" and "UNIX" almost
interchangably. I only differentiate when talking to another Linux fan. I
often refer to Linux as the "freeware UNIX".

Why Windows is popular is entirelly due to the OEM "agreements". Since
most people are used to Windows, Linux can't compete as X is not enough
like Windows. I like fvvm95 when I do use X. A major reason I use Linux is
becuse of costs, however. I was willing to fight with it to save money.
For my usage, it's perfect for cutting costs. Ever price NT? Try $300!

High power computering costs big bucks except for Linux! A fun irony here
is that I bought NT for a computer under construction but I'll probably
end up using Linux ("UNIX") on it instead. :) Oh, well. Bill Gates got my
$300 "donation".

Most users are not power hungry like this user, however. Windows, already
installed, is obviously the choice for the user who just wants to light
off a word processor or spreadsheet. Most users don't care about getting
the most power from a PC, in part becuse they can afford it. After all,
$100 for an app is peanuts for a business professional.

In contrast, I like Linux becuse I don't have to waste money on apps.
Also, I get the most power from the hardware I can afford. For a business
owner in the Third World, Linux is a great solution, at least if he's
willing to "get his hands dirty" and code shit for his own use. If I owned
a business, I'd go this route myself, and America is arguably not Third
World. This is where I differ from other Joe 6-Pack types in terms of
computering.

The normal Joe 6-Pack is NOT willing to code up proggies for himself. This
is one way Linux fails. The normal Joe 6-Pack just wants a computer to be
like a car, easy to use. You can't blame a Joe 6-Pack for that. A Joe
6-Pack just wants to light off the computer, and use an app. Becuse of my
past, I consider the OS itself to be an application and coding proggies to
be the use thereof. Again, I differ from my fellow Joe 6-Pack types.

Windows is the de facto "standard" becuse Microshit spammed it with the
"agreements". Thus, it is like the controls of cars. Everyone knows how to
"drive" Windows, but not UNIX and Linux. The Joe 6-Pack doesn't want to
start over again with a new OS. Also, the good power of Linux doesn't work
out for average users who don't want to admin a UNIX box or don't
understand adminning in the first place.

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DOJ says Linux no competition to MS

Post by Bloody Vikin » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


: You can purchase systems with Linux pre installed, I think it's either
: Compaq or Dell, Intergraph is defiantly doing it and many VAR's will do
: it, go to http://www.linux.org/vendors/systems.html  At my local Best
: Buy (Victorville CA) they are selling the boxed Red Hat with the util's
: right next to M$ Windoze NT.

That's funny. I normally get Linux albums from http://www.cdrom.com as
that's where you go for Slackware. You can also buy Red Hat at CompUSA.

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DOJ says Linux no competition to MS

Post by David Steube » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


-> >Except Compaq just announced that they will be offering Linux
-> >pre-installed on their server models, and Dell, will sell you
-> >Linux pre-installed, even if it is only in quantity.
->
-> ok, I'll call DELL first thing monday morning and ask the salesperson
-> to sell my a PC with Linux installed and will see what happens and
-> will report back here.

Just be sure you actaully buy it if they will sell you just one with
Linux pre-installed.

--
David Steuber
http://www.david-steuber.com
s/trashcan/david/ to reply by mail

SYSTEM ALERT: /dev/null is full.  Please delete any unnecessary files.

 
 
 

DOJ says Linux no competition to MS

Post by Jack Bras » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


Basically they are selling to the converted.

Consumers still need to have a choice when they buy a machine!

jack


>On 14 Jan 1999 20:28:48 -0800,
> Tim Smith  


>>>I think the real reason linux will not be a competitor to Windows is
>>>you can not go to the local computer store or buy online(gateway,
>>>dell, compaq, ibm) a new computer with linux preinstalled.

>>>Basically there is no choice!

>>Well, if you are terminally stupid, you can't buy a machine online with
>>Linux preinstalled.  If you have the brains to use a web browser,
>>however, it is trivial in 5 minutes to find several places selling
>>preinstalled Linux system.

>>--Tim Smith
>Except Compaq just announced that they will be offering Linux
>pre-installed on their server models, and Dell, will sell you
>Linux pre-installed, even if it is only in quantity.
>(lest we forget, there are also numerous companies that offer
>linux pre-installed, VA research, LHS etc. )
>--
>Jim Richardson
>    Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
>WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
>    Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.

 
 
 

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--

Stable AND Compatible is not the same as Stable OR Compatible.


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