A Browser is a Browser

A Browser is a Browser

Post by Ian Pulsfor » Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:47:39



Hi,

This *the M$ is intending to introduce into browsing software is a
greater threat to editorial comment than anything I can think of, short
of facism.  Browsing software was invented to display work that authors
put on the web in html.  Now I cannot trust that the work that I put on
the web is that which I intended to publish.  If I intend to publish a
piece, and a microsoft product dynamically overwrites it with links, is
it what I published (made public)?  No it isn't!

How can we stop this *in its tracks?

IanP

 
 
 

A Browser is a Browser

Post by Stuart Fo » Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:57:30



Quote:> Hi,

> This *the M$ is intending to introduce into browsing software is a
> greater threat to editorial comment than anything I can think of, short
> of facism.  Browsing software was invented to display work that authors
> put on the web in html.  Now I cannot trust that the work that I put on
> the web is that which I intended to publish.  If I intend to publish a
> piece, and a microsoft product dynamically overwrites it with links, is
> it what I published (made public)?  No it isn't!

I'm not sure of the value of this technology, so:

<devils advocate>
This would seem to be a change to the way we look at the web, where content
is no longer determined by the author, it's also determined by whatever else
you choose to connect it to.  This means that for the user, the web becomes
more "dynamic".  Microsoft may well have found from user testing that they
would like this feature.
</devils advocate>

I don't know if I actually believe what I wrote, but it's one alternative
way to think about it.  Given that this is browser based, it would be hard
to combat it.  Of course, you could always hope that it turns out to be a
piece of shit (which it probably will), and gets removed in later versions.

 
 
 

A Browser is a Browser

Post by Mig » Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:02:25



> Hi,

> This *the M$ is intending to introduce into browsing software is a
> greater threat to editorial comment than anything I can think of, short
> of facism.  Browsing software was invented to display work that authors
> put on the web in html.  Now I cannot trust that the work that I put on
> the web is that which I intended to publish.  If I intend to publish a
> piece, and a microsoft product dynamically overwrites it with links, is
> it what I published (made public)?  No it isn't!

I dont think it overwrites anything with links.. actually i didnt even
notice that when i tryed IE6 beta (it could have been a early version)..
The descriptions that i read indicate that it corresponds to right-cliking
on something and then have some options to choose. The problem that i see
wotj this is that some microsoft server is stealthly contated to retriece
information and therefore a company somewhere in net net knows exactly what
you do in your own time,  with your own machine  and in your home... This
is scary, i i understand this issue right, and is certainly illegal here in
Europe. In most countries any electronic register with the publics data
must be under authority surveillance and may not be connected to other
registers/databases. I dont think thats any problem in the US.

Quote:> How can we stop this *in its tracks?

Mail/write  your representatives in Parliament, write "reader-letters" to
newspapers, post messages in news-groups where you adress the issue.

I think it would help a lot if you used Windows and not FreeBSD - i think
it would add credibility :-). So lets let give this chance of "rebellion"
to the lemmings of the world.

Cheers

 
 
 

A Browser is a Browser

Post by David Dorwar » Mon, 11 Jun 2001 04:14:43


It seems that on Sat, 09 Jun 2001 13:47:39 +0100, someone claiming to be

Quote:> How can we stop this *in its tracks?

<?PSUDOCODE

If Internet Explorer 6

{

redirect to page explaining why it is banned from
the website.

Quote:}

else

{

PAGE

?>

If enough people do it it might be effective, if too few people do it
then visitors will just get annoying and give up on the site.

--
David Dorward                                http://www.veryComputer.com/
The only way to keep your health is to eat what you don't want, drink
what you don't like, and do what you'd rather not. -- Mark Twain

 
 
 

A Browser is a Browser

Post by Ayende Rahie » Mon, 11 Jun 2001 06:48:53



> It seems that on Sat, 09 Jun 2001 13:47:39 +0100, someone claiming to be

> > How can we stop this *in its tracks?

> <?PSUDOCODE

> If Internet Explorer 6

> {

> redirect to page explaining why it is banned from
> the website.

Oh, *sure*, deny your site from 86% of the population.
Yeah, right!
 
 
 

A Browser is a Browser

Post by Ayende Rahie » Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:14:47



> On Sat, 9 Jun 2001 23:48:53 +0200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,



> >> > How can we stop this *in its tracks?

> >> <?PSUDOCODE

> >> If Internet Explorer 6

> >> {

> >> redirect to page explaining why it is banned from
> >> the website.

> >Oh, *sure*, deny your site from 86% of the population.
> >Yeah, right!

> I doubt 86% of the population would be using that feature. And if
> enough sites did it, people would just disable the feature.

It's disabled by default.
 
 
 

A Browser is a Browser

Post by Adam Warne » Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:23:25


Hi Ian Pulsford,

Quote:> This *the M$ is intending to introduce into browsing software is a
> greater threat to editorial comment than anything I can think of, short
> of facism.  Browsing software was invented to display work that authors
> put on the web in html.  Now I cannot trust that the work that I put on
> the web is that which I intended to publish.  If I intend to publish a
> piece, and a microsoft product dynamically overwrites it with links, is
> it what I published (made public)?  No it isn't!

> How can we stop this *in its tracks?

I've just realised that we have an historical example for this: Remember
when Deja added it's own advertising links into the newsgroup archives? When
I looked over my old messages what I wrote contained advertising links to
products I wasn't promoting nor were actually relevant.

This misuse of everyone's content was not popular.

Regards,
Adam

 
 
 

A Browser is a Browser

Post by Richard Thripplet » Mon, 11 Jun 2001 09:05:15



>It seems that on Sat, 09 Jun 2001 13:47:39 +0100, someone claiming to be

>> How can we stop this *in its tracks?

><?PSUDOCODE

>If Internet Explorer 6

>{

>redirect to page explaining why it is banned from
>the website.

>}

>else

>{

>PAGE

>?>

>If enough people do it it might be effective, if too few people do it
>then visitors will just get annoying and give up on the site.

BrowserMatchNoCase msie msie
<Directory /var/www>
     Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews
     Order Allow,Deny
     Allow from all
     Deny from env=msie
</Directory>

<Directory /var/www/denied>
     Order Deny,Allow
     Allow from all
</Directory>

Well, that's how Apache can do it...
Probably more sophisticated ways are available.

Richard

 
 
 

A Browser is a Browser

Post by Ian Pulsfor » Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:43:59



> I think it would help a lot if you used Windows and not FreeBSD - i think
> it would add credibility :-).

I trust you mean when posting email to dignities in protest and are not
taking a stab at FreeBSD.

IanP

--
"Dear someone you've never heard of,
how is so-and-so. Blah blah.
Yours truly, some bozo." - Homer Simpson

 
 
 

A Browser is a Browser

Post by Adam Warne » Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:13:27



> It's disabled by default.

In _this_ revision of IE6, plus Microsoft could allow/encourage partner OEMs
to enable it. Microsoft benefits by getting more links to its sites. The
partners benefit by being able to include their own third party tags that
hyperlink from different sites back to them.

Unless Microsoft gives an assurance this will not be turned on by default it
could even be enabled in IE6 SP1.

Regards,
Adam

 
 
 

A Browser is a Browser

Post by David Dorwar » Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:28:21


It seems that on Sat, 09 Jun 2001 22:48:53 +0100, someone claiming to be

Quote:> Oh, *sure*, deny your site from 86% of the population. Yeah, right!

As I said if only a few people will do it then most of that 86% will give
up on the page. If it happens frequently enough then they might consider
changiner browser. However there isn't a hope in whatsit of enough people
blocking their sites to IE users.

--
David Dorward                                http://david.us-lot.org/
The only way to keep your health is to eat what you don't want, drink
what you don't like, and do what you'd rather not. -- Mark Twain

 
 
 

A Browser is a Browser

Post by Matthew Gardine » Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:02:33


Mig, you're quiet lucky in that in DK (Denmark I assume), that you have more
than one party in parliament to visit to address your concerns. Which is a
complete opposite in the US, where by if the two major parties don't want to
listen, you're screwed. Oh, the wonderful US democracy! Beacon of the world,
screwer of the little guy.

Matthew Gardiner



> > Hi,

> > This *the M$ is intending to introduce into browsing software is a
> > greater threat to editorial comment than anything I can think of, short
> > of facism.  Browsing software was invented to display work that authors
> > put on the web in html.  Now I cannot trust that the work that I put on
> > the web is that which I intended to publish.  If I intend to publish a
> > piece, and a microsoft product dynamically overwrites it with links, is
> > it what I published (made public)?  No it isn't!

> I dont think it overwrites anything with links.. actually i didnt even
> notice that when i tryed IE6 beta (it could have been a early version)..
> The descriptions that i read indicate that it corresponds to right-cliking
> on something and then have some options to choose. The problem that i see
> wotj this is that some microsoft server is stealthly contated to retriece
> information and therefore a company somewhere in net net knows exactly
what
> you do in your own time,  with your own machine  and in your home... This
> is scary, i i understand this issue right, and is certainly illegal here
in
> Europe. In most countries any electronic register with the publics data
> must be under authority surveillance and may not be connected to other
> registers/databases. I dont think thats any problem in the US.

> > How can we stop this *in its tracks?

> Mail/write  your representatives in Parliament, write "reader-letters" to
> newspapers, post messages in news-groups where you adress the issue.

> I think it would help a lot if you used Windows and not FreeBSD - i think
> it would add credibility :-). So lets let give this chance of "rebellion"
> to the lemmings of the world.

> Cheers

 
 
 

A Browser is a Browser

Post by Ayende Rahie » Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:10:11



Quote:> Mig, you're quiet lucky in that in DK (Denmark I assume), that you have
more
> than one party in parliament to visit to address your concerns. Which is a
> complete opposite in the US, where by if the two major parties don't want
to
> listen, you're screwed. Oh, the wonderful US democracy! Beacon of the
world,
> screwer of the little guy.

Hi, the other way around isn't much better.
Here, you get a political party per every 2.4 people.
Of course, at the moment, all of them are way over to the extreme right.
 
 
 

A Browser is a Browser

Post by Mig » Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:20:27





>> Mig, you're quiet lucky in that in DK (Denmark I assume), that you have
> more
>> than one party in parliament to visit to address your concerns. Which is
>> a complete opposite in the US, where by if the two major parties don't
>> want
> to
>> listen, you're screwed. Oh, the wonderful US democracy! Beacon of the
> world,
>> screwer of the little guy.

> Hi, the other way around isn't much better.
> Here, you get a political party per every 2.4 people.
> Of course, at the moment, all of them are way over to the extreme right.

Well.. it forces the guys to compromise so a government  can never go to
the extremes because it can never gain absolute majority - you allways end
having 50% left and 50 % right :-)
 
 
 

A Browser is a Browser

Post by Matthew Gardine » Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:41:02


New Zealand has 7 parties in parliament (120 seats). The current government
is a three party coalition, Greens, Alliance and Labour.  Greens and Labour,
Centre Left, and Alliance, left leaning.  The other parties are, United
(Centre Right), New Zealand First (Centre Right), National (Centre Right),
ACT (Right, like the Tories in the UK).  The bonus is that it forces parties
to work together, thus, eliminated the extremes of each party. Germany has
been using MMP sucessfully for 55 years without a hick up.  New Zealand has
been using it for 6 years without any problems, so, the system is workable.

Matthew Gardiner




> > Mig, you're quiet lucky in that in DK (Denmark I assume), that you have
> more
> > than one party in parliament to visit to address your concerns. Which is
a
> > complete opposite in the US, where by if the two major parties don't
want
> to
> > listen, you're screwed. Oh, the wonderful US democracy! Beacon of the
> world,
> > screwer of the little guy.

> Hi, the other way around isn't much better.
> Here, you get a political party per every 2.4 people.
> Of course, at the moment, all of them are way over to the extreme right.

 
 
 

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