Very Computer

I had some extra days to take off from work before the new year so I
finally bit the bullet and started my SuSE 5.3 install. I kept
somewhat sketchy notes but after a full week of Linux installs,
re-compiles and general trying to make things work, my eyes are sore
and my wife is about to leave me....

First off, I'm an old DOS command line junkie and although I am not a
programmer, I do know how to use edlin and would be considered a DOS
"power user", a phrase I hate, but anyhow.....

System is a Pentium 166, 64 mb, Adaptec 2940UW, 2 UW drives with 1
VFAT partition on each (C: and D:), Cirrus 5446 PCI video,
SoundBlaster Clone (Intel variety, with real CL chipset), USR
V.Everything internal modem with latest upgrades and a generic 8x
ATAPI CDROM drive on the secondary controller as master. Printer is a
Canon BJ 4300 color inkjet printer.

Monday
                - Booted up Win98 and printed out the Readme's and
other potentially useful information from the SuSE cd's. Read through
the install chapter and despite it being a little fragmented
(confusing?) I got the gist of it and proceeded to install.
Changed my BIOS to boot off CDROM.
Didn't work for some reason. Funny since I have several other bootable
CD's and they all work?
No problem though as SuSE included a boot diskette and I was on my
way. Loaded the Adaptec module and within minutes I was selecting
packages. I used the default package and added what I thought I needed
(a real guessing game at best) to my configuration. I can't believe
PPP, SLIP and SVGA as well as sound and other useful things aren't in
the default package. Anyway, install went clean and I created a boot
disk as I didn't want to*up my mbr.
I was quite impressed with the install, and in honesty it brought back
memories of some of the finer DOS based programs I had installed over
the years.
I played around with the command line a little going through my "Linux
in a Nutshell" book and trying various options.
I decided to make Tuesday my X windows install day so I read the
HowTo's and the excellent SuSE handbook sections.

Tuesday-
        Ran XF86Setup and within a few minutes I had X-Windows up and
running which was a pleasant surprise considering all the messages in
the linux groups concerning X-Windows. I made some adjustments to the
monitor frequencies as things looked a little blurry and I got "hash
noise" when I moved windows around the desktop. All fixed by a little
tinkering with some settings. I played around with the various Window
managers and finally decided that kde and WindowMaker offered the best
possibilities for me. One disturbing thing was that under WindowMaker
many of the items in the menu's didn't do anything when clicked on.
Most worked under fvwm though so I figured this was some kind of a
configuration problem. I couldn't get the CD Player or Xmixer to work
under any WM so I did some research and found that sound was not
working. Time for the dreaded kernel compile and on to un-charted
waters!!!
Following the procedure in the SuSe handbook I actually was able to
re-compile a custom kernel with sound, PPP and other essentials.
Actually it too 3 tries as my kernel was too big, but again the book
helped. I was able to update my bootdisk and was on my way.
At last sound!!!!
The CD player applications work but I find that the KDE CD player is a
little flakey in that it sometimes hangs and sometimes I have to load
an Audio CD 3 times or more before it gets recognized. Also how the
hell do you remove the CD player from the lower right hand corner of
the task bar? It gets started every time I start KDE.

Now it's time to get my printer working.
I setup the appsfilter as per the SuSE book and everything worked but
the output fonts were way too small and the printer kept printing in
landscape mode. I still have not solved this one. Mybe I should try
GhostScript?

Wednesday-
                Time to get my dial up working so I can get on the net
with Linux. Looking around it seems that kpp is my best bet as it
looks for the most part pretty much like Windows dun. I plug in my
values and away I go. Well actually I am going nowhere because after
the modem connects ppd will not start. After yet some more reading I
discover I have to set the suid bit. Ok no sweat I do this and try
some more. Still no luck, I connect and then 60 seconds or so after
ppd is started it gets a ppd daemon failure message. /var/log/messages
shows that it is trying to send a config but nothing gets sent back.
To this day I have not solved this problem. Major problem :(

Thursday-

        I Download the latest version of WindowMaker and followed the
directions to the letter. Everything works until I get to the "run
wmaker.inst" section. I don't have this file anywhere on my disk. I
have a wmaker.inst.in file but executing that (a script) does nothing.
More frustration. BTW I de-installed the older, SuSE version of Wmaker
as per the instructions.

At this point I am noticing that KDE is quite sluggish compared to
Windows. The KDE Control panel appears in chunks on the screen and I
seem to be getting a lot of hangs and just generally poor performance.
The interface needs some refinement also. Example find files:type in
filename with / as path and no files are found. Use the drop down menu
and select the same / and it works.
Off to sleep. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..
Friday-
        Screwed around all day reading literally thousands of messages
in the various Linux groups concerning ppp and all I have learned is
that there are quite a few people with the same troubles.
The How-To's are either outdated or are way too general (ie:try
something like.......) to be helpful.

At this point I am getting very discouraged because some seemingly
easy tasks are becoming nightmares for me under Linux. I mean I can
set up DUN on WIN98 in 5 minutes or less and it works every time.
I am not talking about arcane grep commands or Emacs here I am talking
about a GUI with tools that half work.
I'm seriously considering going back to Win98 as my productivity has
dropped 100 percent in the last week.

As a Linux community, we need to address these problems instead of
saying "I installed PPP in 2 minutes under RedHat". This may work for
some but based on the groups it does not work for many. This needs to
be addressed.

In short I have a six inch stack of printouts, 2 books and sore eyes
not to mention a weeks worth of wasted time and Linux still does not
work properly. I also have a wife who wants her Windows PC back!!

If the Linux advocates want to see Linux compete withWindows on the
desktop, a lot, and I mean a lot, of work needs to be done.
Comments? Suggestions?

I am willing to learn but this is becoming idiotic. All this work just
to run an OS? I mean honestly , on the desktop, it is really about
applications and Windows has quite a lot of good ones.

Sincerely,
            SteveO

P.S. I left out a lot of details  but you get the gist of it.
I am also not whining about "difficult" unix commands etc. I realize
that that is a result of the power of unix and I am willing to learn.
My concern is with the install, configuration process. Basic stuff.
Stuff that is easily accomplished under Windows.

I don't think you should have expected to move all your productivity to
Linux in a week, or even 6 months.  Linux is not a drop-in replacement for
windows.

Sounds to me like your moving up the learning curve just fine to me.

Dave Cook

Quote:

>I had some extra days to take off from work before the new year so I
>finally bit the bullet and started my SuSE 5.3 install. I kept
>somewhat sketchy notes but after a full week of Linux installs,
>re-compiles and general trying to make things work, my eyes are sore
>and my wife is about to leave me....

Linux is a fine system, but it is not yet ready for mass market and to be used
by other than people who have lots of time and willing to spend too
much effort to do something very simple.

I would suggest to try it again in 3-4 years, by then it all the problems
with installations/configuration etc.. should be fixed. also by then, a
good desktop should be ready to use on LINUX.

3-4 years is not a long time, and it takes time to do things right.

so, check again in 2003 or 2004, I am sure by then things will be better.

Bob.

Time to get into the wayback machine Sherman....
What was your first computer?
How long did it take you to figure it out?
Did your first computer come with an OS installed? (DOS does count)
Was your last computer "pre-installed?"

Linux != Windows
Things you knew about Windows do not apply here. It is like learning a
second language, well worth the frustration, but, nothing like english.

What I am saying, few people install operating systems on to a raw
system. Installing an OS is not like installing an application. When you
run in to a frustrating situation, think back to the last time you
learned about a new operating system. Remember the frustration of the
first Windows 95 install that always hung. Think about all the short
circuited NT installs. Nothing has changed, it is the same dance, it is
just to a better piece of music.

--
Mohawk Software
Windows 95, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit the Mohawk Software website: www.mohawksoft.com

Quote:>I had some extra days to take off from work before the new year so I
>finally bit the bullet and started my SuSE 5.3 install. I kept
>somewhat sketchy notes but after a full week of Linux installs,
>re-compiles and general trying to make things work, my eyes are sore
>and my wife is about to leave me....

I know how you feel.  I have been using Linux for about 10 months, and it
took me over 1 month just to get connected to the Internet.  For my distro,
I chose Caldera 1.1, and had many of the same kinds of problems you had.

Believe me, the answers are all available, you just have to dig hard for
them sometimes.  Those of us who grew up on DOS, OS/2, or Windoze
invariably stumble over the alien underpinnings of Linux.

The slow appearance of KDE appears to me to be some kind of an interrupt
conflict.  I had the same kind of symptoms when my modem was (unbenknowst
to me) set up on IRQ9 by a jumper and I kept trying to force it to another
IRQ.  It took me over 3 weeks just to figure that one out, whereas under
Windows such issues are usually sniffed out pretty early.

Linux has been well worth the effort, at least to me.  I have all but
abandoned all other operating systems at home.  But it did take
considerable effort to get here.

Good luck on your journey, I hope you persevere.  May the source be with
you. :-)

--

Team OS/2       Linux   http://www.iglou.com/homepages/glogan

Thats ok, Linux is fantastic on the cli, with bash's up arrow last command
recall, or ^r for  command search, or a dozen other things, we couldnt
even dream about in dos!

Quote:>Following the procedure in the SuSe handbook I actually was able to
>re-compile a custom kernel with sound, PPP and other essentials.
>Actually it too 3 tries as my kernel was too big, but again the book
>helped. I was able to update my bootdisk and was on my way.
>At last sound!!!!

There, you windoze advocates, cant bee too hard, can it?

Quote:>The CD player applications work but I find that the KDE CD player is a
>little flakey in that it sometimes hangs and sometimes I have to load
>an Audio CD 3 times or more before it gets recognized.

Isnt this still alpha (kde) ?

Quote:>Now it's time to get my printer working.
>I setup the appsfilter as per the SuSE book and everything worked but
>the output fonts were way too small and the printer kept printing in
>landscape mode. I still have not solved this one. Mybe I should try
>GhostScript?

You may need to install the latest version from Alladin, depending whether
this printer is supported or not, with the version that ships with Suse.
The latest version of Alladin GS is free for non-commercial use, but only the
older version is released under the GPL.

Quote:

>Wednesday-
>            Time to get my dial up working .... Major problem :(

I sympathise with you, I installed RH4.2 in Aug97 and ppp etc worked
perfectly, but it wasnt until I installed WVDIAL that I could run ppp from
the cli. Wvdial only needs your ISP's phone number, and your password,its
fantastic, no chat scripts, and it finds the modem etc!.
 If you would prefer a X app, with timer etc, install Ezppp, its also easy to
set up.

Quote:

>Thursday-

>    I Download the latest version of WindowMaker and followed the
>directions to the letter.

A rpm? maybe the rpm package is buggy?
I have just d/l and installed WM and everything worked fine (kudos to the
developers), inc wmaker.inst. Its in /usr/local/bin.

Quote:> Everything works until I get to the "run
>wmaker.inst" section. I don't have this file anywhere on my disk. I
>have a wmaker.inst.in file but executing that (a script) does nothing.
>More frustration. BTW I de-installed the older, SuSE version of Wmaker
>as per the instructions.

>At this point I am noticing that KDE is quite sluggish
,snip>
>Off to sleep. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..

Its been said its slow, many times.

Quote:>Friday-
>    Screwed around all day reading literally thousands of messages
>in the various Linux groups concerning ppp

Once again, if you try wvdial, or Ezppp, i believe your probs will be over
:-)

Quote:

>At this point I am getting very discouraged because some seemingly
>easy tasks are becoming nightmares for me under Linux. I mean I can
>set up DUN on WIN98 in 5 minutes or less and it works every time.
>I am not talking about arcane grep commands or Emacs here I am talking
>about a GUI with tools that half work.
Why is grep arcane?
>I'm seriously considering going back to Win98 as my productivity has
>dropped 100 percent in the last week.

It took me a day to set up RH4.2 with ppp etc, but about another year,
to figgure out about 2% of whats going on!
I think your doing really well, but you may be rushing things? Unix and
dos/windows are JUST so DIFFERENT.

Quote:

>As a Linux community, we need to address these problems instead of
>saying "I installed PPP in 2 minutes under RedHat". This may work for
>some but based on the groups it does not work for many. This needs to
>be addressed.

I'm trying to address them now, for you, for your benefit.

Quote:

>In short I have a six inch stack of printouts, 2 books and sore eyes
>not to mention a weeks worth of wasted time and Linux still does not
>work properly. I also have a wife who wants her Windows PC back!!

Get her another pc ;-)
You sound like a well prepared, organised person, well I've got some *bad*
news for you!!!!!!!1
You can't turn back, you've crossed the line, you may go back to windoze,
for a time, but you have heard the music of the Penguin, things will never
quite be the same again :-)

Quote:

>If the Linux advocates want to see Linux compete withWindows on the
>desktop, a lot, and I mean a lot, of work needs to be done.
>Comments? Suggestions?

I couldn't care less, people keep saying this! For the *1000th* time, we are
NOT competing. Linux progresses on its own merits, as it has since early
1991? ( I bought the 1993 Yggdrassil 0.97, it installed first time!)

Quote:

>I am willing to learn but this is becoming idiotic. All this work just
>to run an OS?

Ever tried to do something *hard* with dos/windows? Just installing Win98
from a win95 box could loose you days!

Quote:> I mean honestly , on the desktop, it is really about
>applications and Windows has quite a lot of good ones.

Yes, this is so, lets remember however, they are single user, expensive, pro
prietary and may not work with the next release of windoze!

Quote:

>Sincerely,
>            SteveO

>P.S. I left out a lot of details  but you get the gist of it.
>I am also not whining about "difficult" unix commands etc.

Thats good, cause they are not really difficult.

Quote:> I realize
>that that is a result of the power of unix and I am willing to learn.

Cool!

Quote:>My concern is with the install, configuration process. Basic stuff.
>Stuff that is easily accomplished under Windows.

Thats true, basic stuff is *usually* easily accomplished under windoze.
However thats all it is, basic. How far will that get you?

How about a simple dial-in server, under windows?....opps need the "Plus
Pack".

Your wife now the proud owner of a 486, would like to run that jazzy 3d
modeling app, but its way too slow on her box,  why not get her to run it on
yours? and display on hers? ...oh oh, need Citrix Winframe.

Your kids want access, but your s**t scared they will damage your data,
somehow, you just know they *WILL*, what will you do to protect it!

And we are not even discussing anything complex yet, like a transparent remote
filesystem (coda) or an encrypted filesystem?

Linux may *not* be for you, but as you are a self proclaimed, willing learner,I
suspect it may be just right. Sure, some things can and will, drive you crazy,
especially with a windoze mindset (I know!).

Good Luck.

terry
--

   My Computer is powered by GNU-LINUX, and has been
 up 12 hours 56 minutes
..........NOTE Spam protection in use...................

I'm also a newbie. Try Red hat 5.x and get a copy of Sam's Teach Yourself Linux
In 34 Hours which includes a Red Hat CD . Good Luck .

Could you please report that bug to the KDE people?

Quote:>    Screwed around all day reading literally thousands of messages
> in the various Linux groups concerning ppp and all I have learned is
> that there are quite a few people with the same troubles.
> The How-To's are either outdated or are way too general (ie:try
> something like.......) to be helpful.

If you find a passage that's not clear or too general, please send a
note to the author.

Quote:> As a Linux community, we need to address these problems

Yes, and you can contribute.

Cheers,

--

 Sponsor free software at the Free Software Bazaar visar.csustan.edu/bazaar/

I realized from the beginning that CL stuff would be a steep hill for
me despite my DOS and OS/2 experience what through me a curve was how
much configuration is involved in performing even a simple task, like
adding icons.
I am learning a hell of a lot though. :)
I do have some nix experience though having been through a couple of
Aix Sys Admin classes that I needed to take for my job. I don't use
the skills much though as I am on the hardware side.
Steve

I have to mostly disagree with that statement. If Linux came as a
pre-load it would be just as easy to use as Windows. What needs to be
done is to give the install routines and configuration routines more
polish. The X-Windows setup programs have just about made it there
already (xf86setup, sax etc) now we need ppp to be on the same level.
There is a reason why the setup groups are chock full of ppp
questions. We also need to have some more specific How-To's instead of
general ones.
I feel Linux is ready for a mature desktop user willing to spend the
time.  At least there is a choice and that's really what counts!
Steve

On Sat, 05 Dec 1998 06:35:54 -0500, in comp.os.linux.advocacy you

Quote:>Time to get into the wayback machine Sherman....
>What was your first computer?
>How long did it take you to figure it out?
>Did your first computer come with an OS installed? (DOS does count)
>Was your last computer "pre-installed?"

I used to love that show as a kid! Along with Commander McBragg.
Actually I have NEVER bought a pre-loaded system in my life. I started
with an TRS-80, Atari, C-64, C-128, IBM XT-286, IBM-AT and on up the
line. I have struggled with every version of DOS since 3.0 with 4.0
being a bad memory. I've been attending the computer shows since they
were ham swap fests and bought my components and then struggled to
make them work. It's been a long haul but the route I chose has given
me knowledge that would be impossible to obtain any other way.

Quote:>Linux != Windows
>Things you knew about Windows do not apply here. It is like learning a
>second language, well worth the frustration, but, nothing like english.

Very true and I agree completely.

Quote:>What I am saying, few people install operating systems on to a raw
>system. Installing an OS is not like installing an application. When you
>run in to a frustrating situation, think back to the last time you
>learned about a new operating system. Remember the frustration of the
>first Windows 95 install that always hung. Think about all the short
>circuited NT installs. Nothing has changed, it is the same dance, it is
>just to a better piece of music.

How well I remember my first Windows-95 install. My IBM DOS based
system gave it fits. My video card left mouse trails and virtually
half of my Windows 3.1 programs ceased to function properly. I had
Win95 the day it was released and collected enough patches to fill a
large box with diskettes!

I'm still plugging along with Linux!

Steve

Will do. I have been keeping track of things that either seem
difficult for me or just plain don't function correctly.

Steve

Thanks for the encouragement Terry!

The WindowMaker tarball was indeed corrupted somehow. I downloaded a
new copy, followed the instructions and I am up and running with
Windowmaker. The kde filemanager as well as other kde apps seem to
work fine under WindowMaker also.

I'm still working on ppp though. I'm going to try and set it up to run
on the CLI first and if I can get that working I can adapt the scripts
to work with kpp.

As a matter of fact I am in the process of building another pc for the
family and also for me to learn about networking them all together.
BTW SUSE 5.3 installed perfectly on the ThinkPad 765L I use at work. I
have it set up with 2 hard drives cause I need to run Lotus Notes for
my job.
WindowMaker sure looks slick on that TFT display !!
Steve

Linux is multi-tasking and multi-user.  Much different than (MS)-DOS.

Hmm, sounds like a nice setup you got there :).

Maybe you should have gotten an LSL (my personal favorite),
Cheapbytes, or LinuxCentral CD set before purchasing the "official"
version?

Depends on how the CD was formatted.  I have 2 RH "GPL" CDs...the LSL
CD boots, the LinuxCentral one doesn't.

Dunno about SuSE, but my PPP, SLIP, and SVGA (X?) all worked fine
under the default RedHat 5.1 install.  Haven't tried sound, but it's
not a priority for me (at lease till I get my LSL RedHat 5.2 disk :).

Linux isn't like DOS.  It's more like UNIX.

SuSE doesn't install X during initial setup?

Why not simply:
cd /usr/src/linux
make modules
make modules_install
make install

and try playing around with insmod instead of compiling a kernel?

Too big how?  What size was it?  What kernel version?  My boot image
is about 475 Kbytes, and that includes sound and PPP.

No idea...I don't use KDE.  Did you check their homepage?

Again, no idea...could you have a Winprinter?  

Could you possibly have a Winmodem?  Those will not work in Linux.
Sorry, but complain to the manufacturer for not releasing the specs.

No idea on how to install WindowMaker...did you try compiling it from
source?  (Well, if you can compile a kernel, you should be able to
compile a program).  Also, in most cases you have to be root to
install programs.

How well does fvwm run?  Try getting used to that first, before trying
to get fancy.

I believe the HOWTOs were recently updated.  Did you try Dejanews?  A
search like:

+Linux +SuSE +ppp +connect

should yield some info.

You *did* keep your Win98 partition, right?  I did.  Can even access
it from Linux :)

Nope...PPP was installed under RH for me...using netcfg, it took about
5 minutes (the first time) to *configure* it.  Simple case of RTFM.

I have a foot high stack of printouts, 3 books and sore eyes, not to
mention the equivalent of months of wasted time and  Windows NT 4.0
still does not work properly (for me).  As stated before, maybe you
should have kept your Win98 partition so you  could dual-boot.

All Linux needs is a little unity among the programmers/users, and for
us *not* to flame excessively each other over asinine things such as
how to pronounce Linux, KDE vs. Gnome, CLI vs. GUI or even Open Source
vs. proprietary software.

It's a lot of work to run NT.  By the way, Linux has a lot of good
desktop applications too.  And more on the way daily.

It has been my experience that installing and configuring Windows is
not an easy ...

read more »

Yes I know, I was making reference to the fact that the command line
doesn't scare me :)

Quote:>Hmm, sounds like a nice setup you got there :).

It's been a very stable system for me. Not enough horsepower for the
latest games, but I'm not much into games anyway.

Quote:

>Maybe you should have gotten an LSL (my personal favorite),
>Cheapbytes, or LinuxCentral CD set before purchasing the "official"
>version?

Possibly.

Quote:>Depends on how the CD was formatted.  I have 2 RH "GPL" CDs...the LSL
>CD boots, the LinuxCentral one doesn't.

Yes I have discovered this. Some of my CD's boot and others don't. No
biggie as the install diskette worked perfectly.

Quote:>SuSE doesn't install X during initial setup?

It installs the components but you have to run xf86setup after the
install to plug in your monitor and card.
Worked fine for me.

Quote:

>Why not simply:
>cd /usr/src/linux
>make modules
>make modules_install
>make install

>and try playing around with insmod instead of compiling a kernel?

That's what I did. I don't remember how large it was but it was over
500k. I had left in all kinds of networking things and drivers I
didn't need.

I've just discovered insmod :)

Quote:>Too big how?  What size was it?  What kernel version?  My boot image
>is about 475 Kbytes, and that includes sound and PPP.

>No idea...I don't use KDE.  Did you check their homepage?

I'm working on it now. Others have suggesting using a script under kpp
instead of PAP.
I'm going to get the command line connection working and then go on to
the gui version.

Quote:>Again, no idea...could you have a Winprinter?  

I don't think it's a Win printer (works under OS/2) but it is not a
postscript variety.  It's working OK since I got the latest version of
GhostScript.

Quote:>Could you possibly have a Winmodem?  Those will not work in Linux.
>Sorry, but complain to the manufacturer for not releasing the specs.

No. USR V.Everything (Courier) is the top of the line US Robotics (now
3Com) modem. Best one they make and not a Winmodem.
I start to get ill even thinking about Win Modems..What a useless idea
all in the name of saving $20.

Quote:

>No idea on how to install WindowMaker...did you try compiling it from
>source?  (Well, if you can compile a kernel, you should be able to
>compile a program).  Also, in most cases you have to be root to
>install programs.

It turns out I had a corrupt tarball. Downloaded a new copy and the
install went perfectly. Looks very impressive!

Quote:

>How well does fvwm run?  Try getting used to that first, before trying
>to get fancy.

fvwm runs fine. I just hate the way it looks and it appears to be a
pain to configure.

Quote:>I believe the HOWTOs were recently updated.  Did you try Dejanews?  A
>search like:

>+Linux +SuSE +ppp +connect

I will take your suggestion.

Quote:>You *did* keep your Win98 partition, right?  I did.  Can even access
>it from Linux :)

Yes I did :)

Quote:

>Nope...PPP was installed under RH for me...using netcfg, it took about
>5 minutes (the first time) to *configure* it.  Simple case of RTFM.

I am going to try the CL version and see if I can make that work. Then
I'll adapt it to kppp under KDE.

Quote:>I have a foot high stack of printouts, 3 books and sore eyes, not to
>mention the equivalent of months of wasted time and  Windows NT 4.0
>still does not work properly (for me).  As stated before, maybe you
>should have kept your Win98 partition so you  could dual-boot.

I don't have any experience with NT but Win 98 has never given me any
problems that I couldn't solve. In time and with some experience I am
certain I will feel the same about Linux.
With Linux at least there is documentation available. Windows came
with a 1/8 inch thick book explaining how to use a mouse :(

Quote:

>All Linux needs is a little unity among the programmers/users, and for
>us *not* to flame excessively each other over asinine things such as
>how to pronounce Linux, KDE vs. Gnome, CLI vs. GUI or even Open Source
>vs. proprietary software.

Very true.

Quote:

>It has been my experience that installing and configuring Windows is
>not an easy accomplishment.  Try doing something as simple as changing
>your computer name and/or IP address in Control Panel | Network
>without shutting down and restarting Windows.

A BIG problem with Windows. Even the install goes through several
reboots and installing virtually any program requires
rebooting......and praying your *.dll files haven't been aborted <BG>!

Steve