"Intuitive"

"Intuitive"

Post by Scott C. FIeld » Sun, 22 Jun 1997 04:00:00





> ........
> > > Since it was the first (widely used, at least) PC mouse this is hardly
> > > surprising. All the el cheapo mice I've seen have a switch which is in a
> > > "Mouse Systems" position as shipped - I suspect this somehow avoids the
> > > need to pay MS a royalty on the other position :-)

> > Interesting concept, I just checked 5 mice I have here, none have this
> > 'swicth' you speak of, all are 'el cheapo?' mice, one has been with me
> > for about 8 years, I have friends who have gone through multiple MS mice
> > in that time frame.

> Yes, there are mices with a switch on the bottom. I remember
> I was assembling a system for a friend for his programming assignments
> using second hand parts and I couldn't figure out why the mouse didn't
> work under DOS no matter what I tried. I used that, what was its name,
> mouse.drv or mouse.com, whatever driver MS supplied with DOS and it
> didn't work until I accidentally turned the mice over and saw the
> switch. BTW, the same mouse worked in both switch positions under gpm
> in Linux but only in "MS" position under X Window System.

I didn't doubt they exist, it just seemed the original poster was saying
that all 'good' mice are made by microshaft, and all others have the
'lets pretend' switch. Thanx for clearing any confusion though.

-scott

 
 
 

"Intuitive"

Post by Michael Warn » Sun, 22 Jun 1997 04:00:00


On Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:45:58 +0000, "Scott C. FIelds"


>> >Microsoft Sound System         Many 16-bit sounds cards emulate this.

>> Never heard of this - can you point me to info about it? Do MS sell a sound
>> card? I thunk nearly everything emulated SoundBlaster hardware.

>I've seen it, I've seen it as both MSS and WSS (windows sound system)
>Its mainly something done in the software from what I understand of it,
>but then again, I have 5 sound cards, all 'el cheapo', and generally do
>not have all these problems.

Perhaps it's a standard for real-time mixing of sampled sounds. The only
programs I've got that do this are games, which seem to handle it
themselves, but possibly professional audio software makes use of it to
handle a range of sound cards more transparently.

What are "all these problems" you refer to?

Quote:>> >And last and certainly least, the current plague of WinModems,
>> >WinPrinters, and such.

>> None of which are made by, promoted by or sold by MS. In both cases they
>> involve shifting as much of the grunt work from the peripheral to the main
>> CPU as possible to reduce peripheral cost at the expense of needing
>> proprietary Windows drivers. Not something I'd buy, but there's a market
>> for it.
>And of course, by adding more load to the cpu, they lower overall system
>performance. But isn't that the WINway. Lowered performance through
>windows.

Another MS *, huh? Look, there's a large sector of the PC market
where capability vs cost is the overriding factor for mfrs, and these sort
of tricks give them an edge. For example, a cut-down modem (RPI type) is
worth about $50 less at retail than a standard one - this is a serious
saving. Sure it loads the main CPU more heavily than a standard modem, but
that's not an issue; neither is the fact that it's tied to one OS. What
matters in this market are the published specs and the price.

You can hardly say I endorse this trend, since I said I wouldn't buy this
stuff. IMHO portable peripheral interfaces have an intrinsic value
regardless of performance issues.

Quote:>As an aside, and I do not know if this still holds true, but at one time
>Microsofts royalty deal with the oems was quite sweet. Pay a royalty on
>every machine you move, or you don't get to use MS products.

Whether this is true (despite its apparent illegality) or an urban myth
with legs is probably hard to determine at this point, but what on earth
does it have to do with the topic?

 
 
 

"Intuitive"

Post by Terry Joyc » Sun, 22 Jun 1997 04:00:00


> I'm sure they'll function just fine as the Emacs key, the Linux key,
> or whatever.  But it'll always have bad art on it, and that's the
> larger crime to humanity.

> --
> Darin Johnson


Perhaps we could print up little keycap stickers to stick over it! Make
it a Linux key. :-)
        Or maybe leave it be. Write a little program that pops up a little
message when someone uses it in Linux.

                        Daniel

 
 
 

"Intuitive"

Post by Colin Mai » Mon, 23 Jun 1997 04:00:00




Quote:>What's the point of this key?  So that people who buy computers feel like
>Microsoft controls the hardware too?  Whatever.

Makes you wonder. Why do they keep coming up with OSes & packages that
require ever more powerful hardware? Perhaps they do have an interest in
making sure as much new hardware as possible is sold.
After all, we are fast approaching the point where most (1st world, etc)
households have a PC, so sales are likely to plummet UNLESS all the
existing hardware can somehow be made obsolete.
(Or have I just qualified for the 'Help! Aliens are taking over the
Earth via M$oft' club??)

Colin Main

(I can't think of anything funny to put here - C.Main, 1997)

 
 
 

"Intuitive"

Post by Larry Blanchar » Mon, 23 Jun 1997 04:00:00



: After all, we are fast approaching the point where most (1st world, etc)
: households have a PC, so sales are likely to plummet UNLESS all the
: existing hardware can somehow be made obsolete.
: (Or have I just qualified for the 'Help! Aliens are taking over the
: Earth via M$oft' club??)

Nope, "planned obsolescence" started in Detroit, not Redmond.  Although
Detroit at least holds it to an annual cycle :-).

--
Larry Blanchard
Old roses, old motorcycles, old trains, and just plain old:)

 
 
 

"Intuitive"

Post by Vinc » Mon, 23 Jun 1997 04:00:00




> : After all, we are fast approaching the point where most (1st world, etc)
> : households have a PC, so sales are likely to plummet UNLESS all the
> : existing hardware can somehow be made obsolete.
> : (Or have I just qualified for the 'Help! Aliens are taking over the
> : Earth via M$oft' club??)

> Nope, "planned obsolescence" started in Detroit, not Redmond.  Although
> Detroit at least holds it to an annual cycle :-).

> --
> Larry Blanchard
> Old roses, old motorcycles, old trains, and just plain old:)

Detroit gave up on planned obsolescence years ago.
 
 
 

"Intuitive"

Post by James Youngma » Tue, 24 Jun 1997 04:00:00



> >Microsoft Sound System         Many 16-bit sounds cards emulate this.

> Never heard of this - can you point me to info about it? Do MS sell a sound
> card? I thunk nearly everything emulated SoundBlaster hardware.

grep MSS /usr/src/linux/drivers/sound/configure.c

My card emulates both.  Most soundblaster emulations are only 8-bit.
MSS is 16-bit.

 
 
 

"Intuitive"

Post by James Youngma » Tue, 24 Jun 1997 04:00:00





> > >Microsoft Mouse                        Almost all mice follow this standard.

> > Since it was the first (widely used, at least) PC mouse this is hardly
> > surprising. All the el cheapo mice I've seen have a switch which is in a
> > "Mouse Systems" position as shipped - I suspect this somehow avoids the
> > need to pay MS a royalty on the other position :-)

> Interesting concept, I just checked 5 mice I have here, none have this
> 'swicth' you speak of, all are 'el cheapo?' mice, one has been with me
> for about 8 years, I have friends who have gone through multiple MS mice
> in that time frame.

I recently needed to buy a 3-button mouse and wanted such a switched
mouse.  I had difficulty finding one...
 
 
 

"Intuitive"

Post by James Youngma » Tue, 24 Jun 1997 04:00:00



>    Or maybe leave it be. Write a little program that pops up a little
> message when someone uses it in Linux.

Like the button in Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy?   "Please do not
press this buttoin again"?
 
 
 

"Intuitive"

Post by Matt McLe » Tue, 24 Jun 1997 04:00:00



>On Fri, 20 Jun 1997 17:45:58 +0000, "Scott C. FIelds"

>>> >Microsoft Sound System         Many 16-bit sounds cards emulate this.

>>> Never heard of this - can you point me to info about it? Do MS sell a sound
>>> card? I thunk nearly everything emulated SoundBlaster hardware.

>>I've seen it, I've seen it as both MSS and WSS (windows sound system)
>>Its mainly something done in the software from what I understand of it,
>>but then again, I have 5 sound cards, all 'el cheapo', and generally do
>>not have all these problems.

>Perhaps it's a standard for real-time mixing of sampled sounds. The only
>programs I've got that do this are games, which seem to handle it
>themselves, but possibly professional audio software makes use of it to
>handle a range of sound cards more transparently.

Some years ago Microsoft tried to get into the soundcard business, and
released the "Microsoft Sound System".  If I remember correctly, it was a
16-bit soundcard which came with some fairly basic voice-control stuff.

I think it was bundled with Compaq machines for a while.  It was not
SoundBlaster compatible, so it never really took off, but for some reason a
fair number of soundcards provide a mode compatible with it (e.g., my old
Aztech SoundGalaxy Washington 16 had an MSS mode).

Linux has an MSS driver, BTW

(got to get this back to being at least marginally relevant.  :-))

--
Matt McLeod,  <mjm(at)hna.com.au>
"Please try to understand before one of us dies".

 
 
 

"Intuitive"

Post by Michael Warn » Tue, 24 Jun 1997 04:00:00


On Sun, 22 Jun 1997 13:05:48 +0100, Colin Main


>After all, we are fast approaching the point where most (1st world, etc)
>households have a PC

Really? Last I heard it was well under 30% and barely growing. Not good for
an industry predicated on rapid growth.
 
 
 

"Intuitive"

Post by Nicholas E Daviso » Tue, 24 Jun 1997 04:00:00




> > : > I actually hate Alt key myself.

> > What about that stupid "MS" key on new keyboards?  With the square leaving
> > a vaportrail, partitioned into four sub-squares...

> > What's the point of this key?  So that people who buy computers feel like
> > Microsoft controls the hardware too?  Whatever.

> > Maybe some creative Linux person will figure out a cool use for this key.
> > Like deleting DOS partitions or something.

> I've configured the windows key on my 104-key keyboard as the meta
> key under emacs. Leaves the alt key free for other things (alt and
> mouse1 raises windows, alt and mouse2 moves them, etc). The little
> popup key actually raises a popup, which is very useful.

> I've heard that a company in America sells replacement keys with a
> Linux logo instead of the icky windows logo. Would love to hear if
> anyone has actually bought one of these, and where I could send my
> money so I can get one too :-)

> --
> The idea that an arbitrary naive human should be able to properly use
> a given tool without training or understanding is even more wrong for
> computing than it is for other tools (eg automobiles, airplanes, guns
> or power saws).

It's not a vapour trail coming from the windows logo, it symbolises the
program falling apart, bits falling off etc as we've come to expect from
microsoft.

As for the naive human, as I saw in someones .sig, "As soon as you make a
truly idiot proof bit of software, they make a better idiot."