Very Computer

by **Alicia Carla Longstree** » Sun, 09 Mar 1997 04:00:00

> Subject says it all. Based on your personal experience and statistics,
> where a good programmer can make more money - in Windows or Unix arena?
> Unix appeals more to me and is more advanced technically, but I am
> afraid that it is losing the market share to Windows 95. I want to be in
> the consulting field.

> I am a recent college graduate in NYC and have offers to work in
> both fields. Please do not start Windows vs. Unix OS flamewar.
> Your insighful observations are appreciated. Please followup.

The actual pay of programmers for various platforms varies from period
to period, depending on various factors, with the availability of talent
the most important. Please, forget dollars, job satisfaction is far
more important. Windows programmers may make more now because there is
a scarcity of talent, or the Unis programers may be less plentiful.
Whatever the current situation is will likely change in the future.

I will suggest that the lifetime earnings of a Computer Programmer will
no dignificantly vary due to the platform. If you spend your time
following the money, you may never develop the expertise in any specific
area to realize your potential earnings. Also, if you focus on what you
want to do, you will likely become better at it, ultimately commanding a
higher salary.

--
********************************************

********************************************

The only thing that's been a worse flop
than the organization of non-*
has been the organization of *.
Joan Baez

by **Giampaolo Tomasson** » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00

Quote:> Subject says it all. Based on your personal experience and statistics,
> where a good programmer can make more money - in Windows or Unix arena?
> Unix appeals more to me and is more advanced technically, but I am
> afraid that it is losing the market share to Windows 95. I want to be in
> the consulting field.

> I am a recent college graduate in NYC and have offers to work in
> both fields. Please do not start Windows vs. Unix OS flamewar.
> Your insighful observations are appreciated. Please followup.

Under Windows, you can solve problems by a lot of different coding and
non-conding strategies. This yields a lot of 'dirty' solutions which are
often very inexpensive to your customer standpoint (VB coding, Office
scripting, and the like). A good, clean solution, reacheable throught a
thoughtful and long software coding, has not to cost too much with respect
to the dirty one... You are going to work a lot for a bunch of dollars in
this field.

Under Unix, instead, you often have few ways to get a 'dirty' solution to
customer needs, thank (!) to the luck of non-C development tools. When a
solution is needed, the starting of a Software project is frequent in this
area. Again, few people is really trained to develop under this
environment, so a good unix developer can earn a lot of $$/hour.

On the other hand, unix is far less diffused than Windows among people (ie:
your potential customers), and the trend is that it will be even less
diffused in the future. This way, you'll get less and lesser chances of
development in this area.

My suggestion (as well as my work style)? Get well trained on both fields
(it's not that difficult, after all), work hard in the Windows field for
few dollars/hour and catch every sparse occasion of development under Unix.
If you do so, you'll get also enought knowledgeable on both the
environment, to became a system integration expert, which is really
appreciated in the software world...

Good luck!,

by **Terje A. Bergese** » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00

> Subject says it all. Based on your personal experience and statistics,
> where a good programmer can make more money - in Windows or Unix arena?

This is a *really* difficult question to answer. It depends on
how you want to work, where you want to work, and so on.

Quote:> Unix appeals more to me and is more advanced technically, but I am
> afraid that it is losing the market share to Windows 95.

No, UNIX is not loosing ANY marked share to Windows 95. It never
will. MS and others claim NT is making inroads into the UNIX
server marked, but based on my experience this is not correct,
with the possible exception of webservers. NT seems to be killing
NetWare in many companies however...

Quote:> I want to be in the consulting field.

You would want to learn *a lot* about Database work. Design,
programming, administration, then. This is one of the areas
where there is a lot of money, and will continue to be.

I would think that gaining knowledge about AS/400 systems
would also help keeping your salary up. AS/400 is a much
more "important" system than UNIX and NT, and will continue
to be for quite a while. Other major IBM OS's are also
nice to know.

If you are thinking about a career right now, COBOL programming
will increase your salary, but you are probably a little late
for the big surge in this marked.

Quote:> I am a recent college graduate in NYC and have offers to work in
> both fields. Please do not start Windows vs. Unix OS flamewar.
> Your insighful observations are appreciated. Please followup.

As for the UNIX/Win32 divicion, my experience tells me that
there is more money in UNIX, but not the same amount of jobs.

--
_____________________________________________________________________

- : -
- Home page: http://www.inett.no/emp/terje/ -

by **JD Co** » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00

Subject says it all. Based on your personal experience and
statistics,
where a good programmer can make more money - in Windows or Unix
arena?
Unix appeals more to me and is more advanced technically, but I am
afraid that it is losing the market share to Windows 95. I want to
be in
the consulting field.

I am a recent college graduate in NYC and have offers to work in
both fields. Please do not start Windows vs. Unix OS flamewar.
Your insighful observations are appreciated. Please followup.

No flaming I promise. I would think that a windows programmer would
have
more opportunity simply because more people use it. I am currently a
UNIX
administrator for a local hospital, and the majority of my users'
questions and
requests for support concern windows. Hope this helps.

Regards
JD Cox

--

http://www.infonline.net/~jdcox/winque.htm

by **Giampaolo Tomasson** » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00

Quote:
> ...omissis...

> No, UNIX is not loosing ANY marked share to Windows 95. It never
> will. MS and others claim NT is making inroads into the UNIX
> server marked, but based on my experience this is not correct,
> with the possible exception of webservers. NT seems to be killing
> NetWare in many companies however...

Your statements disagree with my work scenary (which may mean we simply
work in two different kinds of market).

A lot of middle-ranged companies are starting Intranet experiences. Just
few months ago, Unix would be the elected platform for this application
field, while now you'd probably propose a WindowNT system.

This is a growing field. Your statement means that Unix is not loosing
marketshares belonging to the old market. Actually, brain new markets are
opening, and Unix seems to be excluded by them.

Quote:
> ...omissis...

> I would think that gaining knowledge about AS/400 systems
> would also help keeping your salary up. AS/400 is a much
> more "important" system than UNIX and NT, and will continue
> to be for quite a while. Other major IBM OS's are also
> nice to know.

Hmmm. "Futute Programmer" is from NY, USA. I believe there are not that
number of OS/400 installations, since IBM sells that pice of hardware
mostly in Europe and third world...

By the way, the whole proprietary OSes marketshare is going to further
shirink in the future (with the exception of Microsoft OSes). No big deal
investing there...

Quote:> If you are thinking about a career right now, COBOL programming
> will increase your salary, but you are probably a little late
> for the big surge in this marked.

Even too late in USA.

Quote:> As for the UNIX/Win32 divicion, my experience tells me that
> there is more money in UNIX, but not the same amount of jobs.

I agree. And this is the trend, too. Even less Unix job openings will be
available in the future.

--

------------------------------------------------------
Giampaolo Tomassoni Information Systems Consultant
P.za 8 Aprile 1948, 4 Tel/Fax: +39 (578) 21100

ITALY

* e-mail address junked to avoid spamming.
Remove any blank and " character to send mail

by **Karm** » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00

> Subject says it all. Based on your personal experience and
> statistics,
> where a good programmer can make more money - in Windows or Unix
> arena?
> Unix appeals more to me and is more advanced technically, but I am
> afraid that it is losing the market share to Windows 95. I want to
> be in
> the consulting field.

> I am a recent college graduate in NYC and have offers to work in
> both fields. Please do not start Windows vs. Unix OS flamewar.
> Your insighful observations are appreciated. Please followup.

> No flaming I promise. I would think that a windows programmer would
> have
> more opportunity simply because more people use it. I am currently a
> UNIX
> administrator for a local hospital, and the majority of my users'
> questions and
> requests for support concern windows. Hope this helps.

> Regards
> JD Cox

Definitely, Windows!!! Though, I would focus on support rather than
software development. Since there are various flavours of Windows (3.1,
9x, NT x.x) and ump* number of incompatible hardware designs, this adds
up to a myriad combinations of possible mismatches, you can spend all the
24-hours in a day fixing one machine or the other.

Infinite possibilities of earning a living, and perhaps becoming a
Millionaire in about 5 years. There are a lot of suckers out there who
have Microsoft-Intel Computers. These never learn and keep on upgrading
from one "Windows" to another. From on Intel Chip to another.

Look at Bill Gates of Microsoft and Andy Grove of Intel.

by **Jeff Schon** » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00

>> If you are thinking about a career right now, COBOL programming
>> will increase your salary, but you are probably a little late
>> for the big surge in this marked.

>Even too late in USA.

Maybe not. Much of the software that is not Year2000 compatable is
written in COBOL. COBOL programmers may be in demand in the near
future, but probably not in the long run.

by **Dave Cok** » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00

The question misses the real value of a programmer - what he/she knows
about a specific line of business. Regardless of the language/os skills,
it's what you bring to "the business" that counts.

I work on Wall St, and most of the people that I work with and that
work with me are hybrids; we know LOTS about CS and LOTS about
finance.

: Subject says it all. Based on your personal experience and statistics,
: where a good programmer can make more money - in Windows or Unix arena?
: Unix appeals more to me and is more advanced technically, but I am
: afraid that it is losing the market share to Windows 95. I want to be in
: the consulting field.

: I am a recent college graduate in NYC and have offers to work in
: both fields. Please do not start Windows vs. Unix OS flamewar.
: Your insighful observations are appreciated. Please followup.

by **William Taylor Wilso** » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00

Excerpts from netnews.comp.os.linux.advocacy: 9-Mar-97 Re: Who makes

Quote:> will. MS and others claim NT is making inroads into the UNIX
> server marked, but based on my experience this is not correct,

What they're doing is simply calling NT platforms workstations. They're
able to do this because so many Intel systems now have workstation-class
performance. NT isn't actually DISPLACING Unix-type systems, nor are
Intel systems displacing traditional (Sun, IBM, HP, SGI, whatever)
workstations.

Quote:> with the possible exception of webservers. NT seems to be killing
> NetWare in many companies however...

Actually NT's market share in webserving is dropping, because you can
put together a good web server on Linux (or *BSD) with Apache in less
time on a less powerful system than you can with NT, provided you have
someone in your organization that knows how to set it up. Look at
cdrom.com, for example...

by **Morbi** » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00

> Excerpts from netnews.comp.os.linux.advocacy: 9-Mar-97 Re: Who makes

> > will. MS and others claim NT is making inroads into the UNIX
> > server marked, but based on my experience this is not correct,

> What they're doing is simply calling NT platforms workstations. They're
> able to do this because so many Intel systems now have workstation-class
> performance. NT isn't actually DISPLACING Unix-type systems, nor are
> Intel systems displacing traditional (Sun, IBM, HP, SGI, whatever)
> workstations.

> > with the possible exception of webservers. NT seems to be killing
> > NetWare in many companies however...

> Actually NT's market share in webserving is dropping, because you can
> put together a good web server on Linux (or *BSD) with Apache in less
> time on a less powerful system than you can with NT, provided you have
> someone in your organization that knows how to set it up. Look at
> cdrom.com, for example...

I do some consulting work (in my free time) for a consulting company with
branches in most major US cities. Here is what they charge the customers,
for the services rendered:

IBM/Clones/DOS $125/hr
Mac/OS2/Amiga $145/hr
Windows 95/NT $145/hr
Unix/CAD/CAM $165/hr
Networks/Novell $185/hr
Proprietary/Vertical $195/hr

This rates do not apply to larger projects, nor do they apply to
contract/long term services. Those rates tend to be lower. Now, what
hardware/OS would you like to work on, considering that a substantial
percentage of the fees is your commision?

Morbius

--
"Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck!..." Curly

by **James D. Corde** » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00

> > where a good programmer can make more money - in Windows or Unix
> > arena?
> > Unix appeals more to me and is more advanced technically, but I am
> > afraid that it is losing the market share to Windows 95. I want to
> > be in the consulting field.

> > I am a recent college graduate in NYC and have offers to work in
> > both fields. Please do not start Windows vs. Unix OS flamewar.
> > Your insighful observations are appreciated. Please followup.

Remember that all fields of work are a pyramid!
There are more Jrs. on the Bottom and very view
Srs. on the top.

There is more money in servers than in desk tops:
Face it; if one desk top crashes then one employee
is out of work. However, if the Server goes down
100s or even 1,000s of employes can not do their job.

Now there are more desk tops than servers. Therefore,
there are more jobs for developing desk top interfaces
than servers.

It takes less time to learn Windows than UNIX. But UNIX
is more powerful than Windows. You buy the system to fill
your needs:

Mac moped
Personal Computer Car
Sparc 5 S10 Pickup Truck
Ultra 1 1ton Pickup
Sun 10,000 Mac Truck
Ahmdahl Freight Train

Now think of it as a tool. All of them can deliver a
gallon of milk. But some are over kill. All can deliver
6 gallons of milk. But the Moped has to make six trips
and others are still over kill. Now lets deliver
1,000,000 gallons of milk: It is time for the freight
Train. Ok, the Moped can still do it but it will take
1,000,000 trips.

Now how many people in your neighborhood own a moped?
Car, Truck, Mac Truck, and/or Train. Ok, not many people
are have a moped, those who have them love them, but there
just isn't a moped shop on every corner. Now Car Garage/Gas
station is on every other corner. Ok, how many places
do you see on a daily basis to repair Mac Trucks or
Freight Trains?

Ok, UNIX vs Windows:

Ok, the average Windows Desk Top Environment Programmer
that I have worked with makes about $25,000.00 fresh out
of college and will make upto $35/40,000.00 a year.

The Average Novel Admin makes between $45/50,000.00 a year

The top I have seen: $55,000.00

The average UNIX Jr. System Administrator
fresh out of College makes $32,000.00:
SA = $55,000.00
Lead SA = $70,000.00
Sr. SA = $104,000.00

As a contractor I bill my services at $125.00 an hour
plus expenses.

In short: Supply and Demand:
There is more of a demand for Windows people but there
is a far greater supply than demand. On the other hand
there is more of a demand for UNIX dudes than there is a
supply...

Just my $.02,
James D. Corder Life is watching the ones you grow up

on
http://post369.columbus.oh.us your desk change as your they grow up.

by **David LeBla** » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00

>> Actually NT's market share in webserving is dropping,

I don't think the numbers support this - Netcraft shows both Apache
and IIS growing, with IIS overtaking NCSA very recently. Apache does
have more share, and is growing more rapidly, but it seems to be at
the expense of NCSA and Netscape.

Quote:> I do some consulting work (in my free time) for a consulting company with
>branches in most major US cities. Here is what they charge the customers,
>for the services rendered:
>IBM/Clones/DOS $125/hr
>Mac/OS2/Amiga $145/hr
>Windows 95/NT $145/hr
>Unix/CAD/CAM $165/hr
>Networks/Novell $185/hr
>Proprietary/Vertical $195/hr

> This rates do not apply to larger projects, nor do they apply to
>contract/long term services. Those rates tend to be lower. Now, what
>hardware/OS would you like to work on, considering that a substantial
>percentage of the fees is your commision?

It depends on how much work is out there - it doesn't matter how much
per hour if you don't bill many hours. Of course, if there are
unlimited hours of each, it looks like mainframes are a good gig...

David LeBlanc |Why would you want to have your desktop user,

|minicomputer-class computing environment?
|Scott McNealy

by **Bob Taylo** » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00

Quote:> Subject says it all. Based on your personal experience and statistics,
> where a good programmer can make more money - in Windows or Unix arena?
> Unix appeals more to me and is more advanced technically, but I am
> afraid that it is losing the market share to Windows 95. I want to be in
> the consulting field.

> I am a recent college graduate in NYC and have offers to work in
> both fields. Please do not start Windows vs. Unix OS flamewar.
> Your insighful observations are appreciated. Please followup.

I would recommend learning BOTH. Why put all your eggs in one basket?

--
+---------------------------------------------------------------+

|---------------------------------------------------------------|
| A witty statement goes here! (when I get to it!) |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+

by **John Lockwo** » Mon, 10 Mar 1997 04:00:00

Quote:>> Unix appeals more to me and is more advanced technically, but I am
>> afraid that it is losing the market share to Windows 95.

Unix is more advanced technically? That's interesting. The last time
I installed a modem on Windows NT the OS found it for me. The last
time I tried it on Unix I read about the nine files one had to edit,
then gave up. It seems to me that Unix is losing market share
precisely because end users never make the programmer's mistake of
confusing technical advancement with obtuseness.

Regards,

John

by -- » Tue, 11 Mar 1997 04:00:00

Quote:>In short: Supply and Demand:
>There is more of a demand for Windows people but there
>is a far greater supply than demand. On the other hand
>there is more of a demand for UNIX dudes than there is a
>supply...

Where is this great supply!? We are a shop with 20+ VB/Access/Delphi
programmers and we have had 4 to 5 positions open for half a year now.
Send them all my way, I can use them. There are 3 UNIX people to my
knowledge in our company, and no positions open.

Very Computer

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?

Who makes more $$ - Windows vs. Unix programmers?