Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Post by Ravi K. Swa » Wed, 10 Apr 1996 04:00:00



[newsgroups trimmed]



>>Yes, but the good thing about a Unix box is that you can telnet into it
>>remotely - or even run an xterm remotely - and update software/fix
>>problems/do provocative maintenance or whatever yourself. Zero possibility
>>for errors in having to talk someone unfamiliar with the system through the
>>procedure.

>>Does NT have a good telnetd or equivalent?

>Can't you get the same behavior by connecting to the drive in the
>system level share that is available to sysadmins?

And this will work if I'm on a non-NT box?  I don't have to admin
a Unix box from another Unix box.  It can be an HP48 calculator.

Quote:>  If I connect to a
>persons drive, I can update software, add/remove files, make
>configuration changes etc.  Besides, given NTs GUI, a text mode telnet
>session doesn't make a lot of sense because all the tools are GUI
>based and won't run in a telnet window.

So to make up for this lack it should have a windowing system in
the box capable of remote display.  Last time I checked WinDD
was $3500.  So how much is Winframe?  Well personally it's too
much since I'm used to getting X for free in the first place...

Quote:>  To telnet into NT, you'd have
>to learn all the cryptic UNIX commands that have been ported which
>would defeat the ease of use that you get from a GUI.

No need to learn them if I already know them.

Ravi
--
Ravi K. Swamy                http://www4.ncsu.edu/~rkswamy/www/

 
 
 

Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Post by Cameron MacKinno » Thu, 11 Apr 1996 04:00:00



> College students might be using Linux and FreeBSD, but some of them
> (e.g. yours truly) are also using NT. Most Fortune 500 companies
> will be impressed with knowledge of *nix, but a lot of real
> operations is done in NT- i.e developing man-machine interfaces for
> production purposes, building SQL databases, etc. Engineering, not
> necessarily MIS type stuff.In fact, that's what I'm doing right now - supporting a 400 site, 1500 node NT WAN.

It's a department's job, for a few reasons: Distribution and version control. MS
suggested we buy a copy of SMS server and SQL server for each site! Now, tell me
how to periodically automatically purge a directory of all files over two weeks old
under NT. No fair making me buy a $600 C compiler. Use the tools that came with the
OS. The only thing I can think of is BASIC, and even that's pretty ugly. You get
one hint as to my solution: Larry Wall.

Quote:> So when I had to call Joe Blow the electrician, who was a 1000
> miles away, and explain to him that we needed to update the
> software on our NT server, I could say "Open up a DOS window,
> switch to the E: drive, go to this directory, run this program." If
> we were running Unix, and I had said, "Open up an xterm, mount the
> network drive, etc." he would have thought I was speaking Greek.
> And we weren't running "secretarial" stuff by any means. We were
> running hard-core plant floor production level data acquisition
> programs.Actually, Joe's a beer store employee, and his NT box has a touch screen, but no

keyboard. That aside, your electricians seem to be a lot more computer literate
than my sales clerks.

I appreciate the "easy to use" graphical interface of Windows, but it has its down
side:  The tools that come with the operating system can't be run remotely, or in
batch. UNIX's "tools based approach" is harder to learn initially, but offers power
and flexibility when it comes to system management and support. Microsoft would
have us coding in C all day long and spending inordinate amounts on their "Systems
Management Server" solution.

For those who say "well, at least you can call for support when something goes
wrong"; try getting any for something really serious. I had an intermittent hang
situation running Win31 off network servers two years ago. Brought in Microsoft
Consulting Services, who spent 6 weeks looking at the problem intermittently and
presented us with a bill for $30,000 along with the recommendation "so don't do
that". We were using a configuration Microsoft ostensibly supported, documented and
recommended, and 100% of our hardware was on the compatibility list. We're
currently waiting for MS to fix a memory leak in the Win32 comm driver which is
causing us to have to shut down EVERY machine on our NT WAN once a week. They've
"Confirmed it to be a problem".

I have legal copies NT and Linux at home, and have registered neither, Microsoft's
counting me as a user, but the Linux community isn't. On a related topic, know
where all those copies of OS/2 IBM claims to have sold but nobody's ever seen are?
Think automated teller machines.

There's lots of money in supporting Microsoft product, anyway. I know. It finances
my Linux habit 8-)

--

Cameron MacKinnon


 
 
 

Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Post by Mark Spinel » Thu, 11 Apr 1996 04:00:00



Quote:

>NO! a most emphatic NO! You can't execute programs on the other system.
>[in NT]

Sure you can. If I were working on an NT workstation in Richmond, VA and
I needed to change the system time on an NT box (call it NTFOO) in, say, San
Francisco, CA, because of the switch to daylight savings, I might issue the
following on my machine (locally):

at \\NTFOO 5:00pm changetime.cmd

where changetime.cmd looks like:

time<newtime.txt

and newtime.txt looks like:

6:00pm <CR>

It's not quite the same as an rexec, but it gets the job done. Also, I need to
have administrative (root) priviledges on both my local machine as well as on
NTFOO.

 
 
 

Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Post by Joe Slo » Thu, 11 Apr 1996 04:00:00





>>NO! a most emphatic NO! You can't execute programs on the other system.
>>[in NT]

>Sure you can. If I were working on an NT workstation in Richmond, VA and
>I needed to change the system time on an NT box (call it NTFOO) in, say, San
>Francisco, CA, because of the switch to daylight savings, I might issue the
>following on my machine (locally):

>at \\NTFOO 5:00pm changetime.cmd

<various arcane commands trimmed>

My Linux boxes automatically switch over at the correct time...

But I can always log in remotely if need be -

Whether graphically or via a dumb terminal, it's no problem.

--
Joe Sloan               Happily running Unix!

 
 
 

Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Post by Mats Andtbac » Thu, 11 Apr 1996 04:00:00



[...]

Quote:>Now, tell me how to periodically automatically purge a directory of
>all files over two weeks old under NT. No fair making me buy a $600 C
>compiler. Use the tools that came with the OS. The only thing I can
>think of is BASIC, and even that's pretty ugly. You get
>one hint as to my solution: Larry Wall.

that's the solution you're using on NT, i take it?
'cos on a unix, it'd be a mite of overkill.

0 3 * * Mon find /blah -atime +14 -print | xargs rm -f

(ten extra parrot points if you can tell why i'm using xargs)
--
   "I'm more differed from than differing"   --  Arthur Dent

 
 
 

Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Post by Greg Copela » Fri, 12 Apr 1996 04:00:00




Quote:>recommended, and 100% of our hardware was on the compatibility list. We're
>currently waiting for MS to fix a memory leak in the Win32 comm driver which is
>causing us to have to shut down EVERY machine on our NT WAN once a week. They've
>"Confirmed it to be a problem".

WOW!!!!!!  Thanks!  This explains the freak'n memory leak that I couldn't
find and why it is the most problematic on the NT box doing the largest COM
load!!!!!  Thanks...for the life of me I couldn't figure out which part of
NT was leaking (knew for sure something in the OS was).

Thanks,
        Greg Copeland

 
 
 

Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Post by Anthony D. Tribel » Fri, 12 Apr 1996 04:00:00


: My Linux boxes automatically switch over at the correct time...

I'm sure you'll be happy to know that Win95 managed this truly amazing
feat as well. :-)

Tony
--
------------------
Tony Tribelli

 
 
 

Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Post by Russ McClella » Fri, 12 Apr 1996 04:00:00


And so does NT 4.0 beta (never checked 3.51)

You can also remotely excecute NT software using NTRemote, a shareware
product, although I've never tried it.

 
 
 

Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Post by Joe Slo » Fri, 12 Apr 1996 04:00:00





>: My Linux boxes automatically switch over at the correct time...

>I'm sure you'll be happy to know that Win95 managed this truly amazing
>feat as well. :-)

Yeah, I heard about that fiasco...

Hehe - seems that at the last time change, a lot of win95 PeeCees
were stuck in a loop where the time would get to 2 am, then switch
back to 1 am, and then run til 2am, at which time they would
switch back to 1 am, ad infinitum...

What can I say? this stuff is better than fiction!

--
Joe Sloan               Happily running Unix!

 
 
 

Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Post by Anthony D. Tribel » Fri, 12 Apr 1996 04:00:00



: >: My Linux boxes automatically switch over at the correct time...
: >
: >I'm sure you'll be happy to know that Win95 managed this truly amazing
: >feat as well. :-)

: Hehe - seems that at the last time change, a lot of win95 PeeCees
: were stuck in a loop where the time would get to 2 am, then switch
: back to 1 am, ...

I thought we just moved the clock forward, not backwards? Were you really
referring to last fall when the clock was moved backwards? Were these beta
releases that were still in use?

Just curious, I managed to miss out on this sort of fun.

Tony
--
------------------
Tony Tribelli

 
 
 

Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Post by Adam J. Thornt » Fri, 12 Apr 1996 04:00:00



>0 3 * * Mon find /blah -atime +14 -print | xargs rm -f
>(ten extra parrot points if you can tell why i'm using xargs)

Uh, because it will spawn all the 'rm's in parallel rather than serially
as, presumably, find /blah -atime +14 -exec rm \{\} \; would?

If I'm right please e-mail (or if I'm wrong); I'll respect your
Followup-To: line, but I don't read c.o.l.a.

Adam
--

"Double integral is also the shape of lovers curled asleep":Pynchon | Linux
Thanks for letting me rearrange the chemicals in your head. | Team OS/2
You can have my PGP passphrase when you pry it from my cold, dead brain.

 
 
 

Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Post by Mark Spinel » Sat, 13 Apr 1996 04:00:00






>>>NO! a most emphatic NO! You can't execute programs on the other system.
>>>[in NT]

>>Sure you can. If I were working on an NT workstation in Richmond, VA and
>>I needed to change the system time on an NT box (call it NTFOO) in, say, San
>>Francisco, CA, because of the switch to daylight savings, I might issue the
>>following on my machine (locally):

>>at \\NTFOO 5:00pm changetime.cmd

><various arcane commands trimmed>

Arcane? <cough> sed and awk are so intuitive. Saying "time" to change the
system time, now that is hard to remember. <cough>                        

Quote:>My Linux boxes automatically switch over at the correct time...

Gee, that's really the point I was trying to make.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the BIOS actually takes care of the system time,
knows that it's a leap year, etc. It only looks to see if there needs to be a
change for daylight-savings or whatever when there's a reboot, which for a
server class machine is unlikely.
 
 
 

Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Post by rortiz0 » Sat, 13 Apr 1996 04:00:00


 [text irrelevant to reply deleted]
Quote:

> I have legal copies NT and Linux at home, and have registered neither, Microsoft's
> counting me as a user, but the Linux community isn't. On a related topic, know
> where all those copies of OS/2 IBM claims to have sold but nobody's ever seen are?
> Think automated teller machines.

IBM does not include ATM copies of OS/2 when they release
sales data. The 1 Million copies that IBM reported sold in
December doesn't include large contracts, like the 400k
copies of Warp to the Navy, either. And IBM doesn't include
OS/2 1.x licenses in the OS/2 user base.

BTW Most ATM's use either OS/2 1.2 or 1.3

Rafael Ortiz
TEAMOS/2

 
 
 

Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Post by Greg Copela » Mon, 15 Apr 1996 04:00:00




>that's the solution you're using on NT, i take it?
>'cos on a unix, it'd be a mite of overkill.

>0 3 * * Mon find /blah -atime +14 -print | xargs rm -f

>(ten extra parrot points if you can tell why i'm using xargs)

Hey, that's pretty slick!  I didn't know about xargs...ahhh...man pages
are wonderful...cool....bonus round next!  ;)

-Greg

 
 
 

Linux vs. Win95 (was: why w95 users feel so much pain) [Long]

Post by Greg Copela » Mon, 15 Apr 1996 04:00:00




>BTW Most ATM's use either OS/2 1.2 or 1.3

Depending on how long they've been out there.  As of about 5-6 years ago,
they've all been using their 32-bit brother.

-Greg