Debian 2.2r2, I *love* you! (longish)

Debian 2.2r2, I *love* you! (longish)

Post by Terry Port » Thu, 14 Jun 2001 21:25:09



Hahaha, so my catchy  subject caught your eye ?

Well sit back, relax and lets have some fun!

You may remember that I said I was going to try Debian about
a month or so ago ?

Now its up and running, and while the experience is still fresh
I'm putting finger to key, and warming up the rant-mobile!

Firstly, in the past few days I've tried Redhat7.2 from a Magazine
cover and I'm dissapointed.

If this is typical of RH these days then Flatty has a point!

RH7.2 bombed on the gui setup, not finding the same video card that
 RH4.2 did in 1997!
Then it bombed on the text mode install!

That was enough, if it won't get past this first stage, what
other fresh hell awaits me ?

I tried Turbo Linux, and that bombed too, resulting in a non
install.

Egads, commercial variants have a very Microsoft feel to them
these days, woe is me :(

Finally I tried Debian 2.2r2 and what a fresh breath of air it was,
more complex, than Mandrake, and I had to re install it 3 times, but
2 of them were my fault, oh alright 2.5 and thats my final offer.

Now I have installed Debian before, but only CLI and on old slow
low ram boxes, and I havent had any trouble, in fact I d/l the base
floppies from debian and used that, never adding all the other
packages.

This time was diferent and here's what I did (more or less)
1/ boot of cd#1 (2 cd set)
2/ Assign hard disk partitions, I'm using the existing partitions
of which there are 8.
3/ Assign host name
4/ Assign domain name
5/ Assign ipnumber
6/ Assign gateway ipnumber
7/ Assign dns ip numbers
8/ base install
9/ Reboot
10/ Select install type simple or advanced
11/ Select packages ie 'C development', 'Tex', there are only about
ten boxes to check here.
12/ Swap CD's when asked
13/ Assign root password
14/ Assign first user name and password

Done!

Approx 14 steps and one reboot, after all, we are installing
the OS here!

Then I told Debian to install some packages not installed
in the 'simple' option. One was 'Xchat' my IRC client, and here's
the log of the entire process :)

...............................................................
My CLI Command :- gronk:/home/tp# apt-get install xchat

Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
  python-base xchat-common
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  python-base xchat xchat-common
0 packages upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 36 not upgraded.
Need to get 1374kB of archives. After unpacking 4403kB will be used.

( I just press enter here)
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y

Get:1 http://http.us.debian.org stable/main python-base
1.5.2-10potato11 [824kB]

Get:2 http://http.us.debian.org stable/main xchat
1.4.3-0.1[383kB]                                      

Get:3 http://http.us.debian.org stable/main xchat-common
1.4.3-0.1 [167kB]

Fetched 1374kB in 7m26s (3079B/s)
selecting previously deselected package python-base.
(Reading database ... 28737 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking python-base (from .../python-base_1.5.2-10potato11_i386.deb) ...
Selecting previously deselected package xchat-common.
Unpacking xchat-common
(from .../xchat-common_1.4.3-0.1_all.deb) ...

Selecting previously deselected package xchat.
Unpacking xchat (from .../xchat_1.4.3-0.1_i386.deb) ...
Setting up python-base (1.5.2-10potato11) ...

Setting up xchat-common (1.4.3-0.1) ...

Setting up xchat (1.4.3-0.1) ...

gronk:/home/tp#  
..................................................................

Is this simple or what ???????

As you can see, to install Xchat I needed to type only *1* line,
and press enter twice :-

gronk:/home/tp# apt-get install xchat

and

Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y

And Debian fetched the app from its main site, plus the python base
and installed it, *AND* added it to the *IceWm menu*, all automatically!

Plus while it was doing it, I was reading news groups, the pc wasnt
affected at all.

The price for this innovative operating system ?

Was it $2850 (gst inc) for the OS plus 5 Client Access?
(source APC magazine June 2001, Harris Technology, for Win2k
 Small Business Server)

But wait, send no money ......

Was it $607 for the OS only ?
(same source Win2k "Professional")

But wait, theres still more .....

I get "remote assistant" (Win2k Proffesional ONLY) and I can have
as many clients as I like :)

So how much did I pay ??

$16,and that included 3 CD's and the 176 page book
(APC "Advanced Linux Pocketbook")

Debian I *love* you!

--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.  
Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/          
** Registration Number: 103931,  http://counter.li.org **

 
 
 

Debian 2.2r2, I *love* you! (longish)

Post by Brian Langenberge » Thu, 14 Jun 2001 23:41:00


<snip!>

: Firstly, in the past few days I've tried Redhat7.2 from a Magazine
: cover and I'm dissapointed.

I'd just like to know where that RedHat 7.2 came from,
since the latest version on RedHat's site is only 7.1.
Is there some weird beta floating around I've been unaware of?

 
 
 

Debian 2.2r2, I *love* you! (longish)

Post by Mart van de Weg » Fri, 15 Jun 2001 04:51:42



<snip>
Quote:

> Then I told Debian to install some packages not installed in the
> 'simple' option. One was 'Xchat' my IRC client, and here's the log of
> the entire process :)

> ............................................................... My CLI
> Command :- gronk:/home/tp# apt-get install xchat

> Reading Package Lists... Done
> Building Dependency Tree... Done
> The following extra packages will be installed:
>   python-base xchat-common
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>   python-base xchat xchat-common
> 0 packages upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 36 not upgraded.
> Need to get 1374kB of archives. After unpacking 4403kB will be used.

> ( I just press enter here)
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y

> Get:1 http://http.us.debian.org stable/main python-base 1.5.2-10potato11
> [824kB]

> Get:2 http://http.us.debian.org stable/main xchat 1.4.3-0.1[383kB]

> Get:3 http://http.us.debian.org stable/main xchat-common 1.4.3-0.1
> [167kB]

> Fetched 1374kB in 7m26s (3079B/s)
> selecting previously deselected package python-base. (Reading database
> ... 28737 files and directories currently installed.) Unpacking
> python-base (from .../python-base_1.5.2-10potato11_i386.deb) ...
> Selecting previously deselected package xchat-common. Unpacking
> xchat-common
> (from .../xchat-common_1.4.3-0.1_all.deb) ...

> Selecting previously deselected package xchat. Unpacking xchat (from
> .../xchat_1.4.3-0.1_i386.deb) ... Setting up python-base
> (1.5.2-10potato11) ...

> Setting up xchat-common (1.4.3-0.1) ...

> Setting up xchat (1.4.3-0.1) ...

> gronk:/home/tp#
> ..................................................................

> Is this simple or what ???????

> As you can see, to install Xchat I needed to type only *1* line, and
> press enter twice :-

> gronk:/home/tp# apt-get install xchat

> and

> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y

> And Debian fetched the app from its main site, plus the python base and
> installed it, *AND* added it to the *IceWm menu*, all automatically!

> Plus while it was doing it, I was reading news groups, the pc wasnt
> affected at all.

> The price for this innovative operating system ?

> Was it $2850 (gst inc) for the OS plus 5 Client Access? (source APC
> magazine June 2001, Harris Technology, for Win2k
>  Small Business Server)

> But wait, send no money ......

> Was it $607 for the OS only ?
> (same source Win2k "Professional")

> But wait, theres still more .....

> I get "remote assistant" (Win2k Proffesional ONLY) and I can have as
> many clients as I like :)

> So how much did I pay ??

> $16,and that included 3 CD's and the 176 page book (APC "Advanced Linux
> Pocketbook")

> Debian I *love* you!

Now, it gets better Terry!

Debian 2.2 is the stable distro. It is about 3/4s of a year out of date.
If you don't mind a little flakiness with the occasional app (oh, good
sigmonster), you should try upgrading to testing or the real bleeding
edge, unstable! very simple, open /etc/apt/sources.list in a text editor,
change all uncommented lines that mention stable to either 'testing' or
'unstable', save and issue 'apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade'. BANG!
you're box is immediately up to date with the latest in Free Software.
Debian's great innit?

Mart.

--
Playing for the high one, dancing with the devil,
Going with the flow, it's all the same to me,
Seven or Eleven, snake eyes watching you,
Double up or quit, double stake or split, The Ace Of Spades

 
 
 

Debian 2.2r2, I *love* you! (longish)

Post by Terry Port » Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:19:35


On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 14:41:00 +0000 (UTC),


><snip!>

>: Firstly, in the past few days I've tried Redhat7.2 from a Magazine
>: cover and I'm dissapointed.

> I'd just like to know where that RedHat 7.2 came from,
> since the latest version on RedHat's site is only 7.1.
> Is there some weird beta floating around I've been unaware of?

Opps!
It was Redhat 7.1 !

My bad.

--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.  
Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/          
** Registration Number: 103931,  http://counter.li.org **

 
 
 

Debian 2.2r2, I *love* you! (longish)

Post by Terry Port » Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:32:07



<snip>

Quote:>> Finally I tried Debian 2.2r2 and what a fresh breath of air it was,
>> more complex, than Mandrake, and I had to re install it 3 times, but
>> 2 of them were my fault, oh alright 2.5 and thats my final offer.

> So, did you try FreeBSD?

The version of FreeBsd I have is 2.2.7, and I did start installing it,
but when I realised it had no selection for scsi emulation (my Ricoh
CD burner) I chickened out.

Quote:>  That install was pretty nice and simple as well.
> But, I was frustrated by one aspect of FreeBSD's sysinstall:  the FTP install
> option is frustrating and buggy as hell!  After I selected the DHCP option,
> it proceeded to guess all of the network parameters correctly.  But, then it
> hung right at the "looking up host ftp6.freebsd.org..." dialog.  Dammit, it
> should've been able to log right in, because it guessed the DNS servers
> correctly.  When I did finally manage to get the ftp install to work, it
> botched the installation horribly.

Yuck!

Quote:

> Then, I came to my senses, and realized that you can install from a DOS
> partition.  Dammit, why didn't I just download the stuff required for a
> minimal install to my DOS partition, and then install from there?  So, I
> booted into Windows, and downloaded the bin, doc, and manpages distibutions.
> Then, I booted back into the FreeBSD sysinstall floppy.  This time, I
> selected "DOS partition" as the media that I would install from.  It began
> installing immediately, and I did not have to tell it which device the DOS
> partition was located on.  (It did it automatically.)

That sucks, even tho it works so well, I just dont have DOS anymore, I gave away
my dos 6.11 diskettes thet I paid $90 for.

Quote:

> The install went flawlessly then.  So, I learned my lesson, that I should ftp
> the ISO and burn the damned thing instead of screwing around with the ftp
> install option.  Or, just download the minimum required files to a DOS
> partition.  When it's installed, and your minimal installation works
> correctly, THEN you can*around with the ftp installation of the rest of
> the distributions you need.

I'll bear that in mind, as I *will* be trying FreeBsd.

Quote:

> I believe in doing a minimal install first to see if the darned thing is
> going to even boot or work.

Excellent advice Donn, you sound like you have a wealth of *real* experience.

Quote:

> So yes, the FreeBSD 4.3-R install program is really *ed up if you try to
> ftp install it with the DHCP option.  But otherwise, it's nice and simple, and
> works quite well.  I guess the best thing if you have a cable modem is to
> download the ISO, and set your BIOS to boot from the CD, instead of screwing
> around with all the other crap.

Using 'Gftp' under Linux, and my trusty 33.3k modem can d/l about
110 megs overnight, so I'll get the FreeBsd and OpenBsd iso's that way
:)

--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.  
Free Micro burner: http://www.veryComputer.com/;        
** Registration Number: 103931,  http://www.veryComputer.com/ **

 
 
 

Debian 2.2r2, I *love* you! (longish)

Post by Terry Port » Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:58:07


On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 21:51:42 +0200,

Quote:> Now, it gets better Terry!

> Debian 2.2 is the stable distro. It is about 3/4s of a year out of date.
> If you don't mind a little flakiness with the occasional app (oh, good
> sigmonster), you should try upgrading to testing or the real bleeding
> edge, unstable!

RedHat and Mandrake had enuf bleeding edge for me Mart, I just wanna
have a nice *maintainable* distro, that I can install on my own
or the pc's of friends etc.

I just love the *simple* rc.d layout in Debian, it's easy to understand
and modify. This was one area I never understood well with Redhat/Mandrake.

Quote:> very simple, open /etc/apt/sources.list in a text editor,
> change all uncommented lines that mention stable to either 'testing' or
> 'unstable', save and issue 'apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade'. BANG!
> you're box is immediately up to date with the latest in Free Software.
> Debian's great innit?

Oh yeah, Debian is very smooth!
apt-get is so easy to use, and so far, no conflicts etc!

Quote:

> Mart.

> --
> Playing for the high one, dancing with the devil,
> Going with the flow, it's all the same to me,
> Seven or Eleven, snake eyes watching you,
> Double up or quit, double stake or split, The Ace Of Spades

--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.  
Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/          
** Registration Number: 103931,  http://counter.li.org **
 
 
 

Debian 2.2r2, I *love* you! (longish)

Post by Terry Port » Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:20:05





>>> The install went flawlessly then.  So, I learned my lesson, that I should ftp
>>> the ISO and burn the damned thing instead of screwing around with the ftp
>>> install option.  Or, just download the minimum required files to a DOS
>>> partition.  When it's installed, and your minimal installation works
>>> correctly, THEN you can*around with the ftp installation of the rest of
>>> the distributions you need.

>>I'll bear that in mind, as I *will* be trying FreeBsd.

> FWIW www.cheapbytes.com has the FreeBSD v4.3 install CD for $5.

Thats excellent, but as I have no d/l limit with my ISP, I think
I will ftp it. With Linux and auto resume this works really well:)

--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.  
Free Micro burner: http://www.veryComputer.com/;        
** Registration Number: 103931,  http://www.veryComputer.com/ **

 
 
 

Debian 2.2r2, I *love* you! (longish)

Post by Charlie Ebe » Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:28:53



>Hahaha, so my catchy  subject caught your eye ?

>Well sit back, relax and lets have some fun!

>You may remember that I said I was going to try Debian about
>a month or so ago ?

>Now its up and running, and while the experience is still fresh
>I'm putting finger to key, and warming up the rant-mobile!

>Firstly, in the past few days I've tried Redhat7.2 from a Magazine
>cover and I'm dissapointed.

>If this is typical of RH these days then Flatty has a point!

>RH7.2 bombed on the gui setup, not finding the same video card that
> RH4.2 did in 1997!
>Then it bombed on the text mode install!

>That was enough, if it won't get past this first stage, what
>other fresh hell awaits me ?

>I tried Turbo Linux, and that bombed too, resulting in a non
>install.

>Egads, commercial variants have a very Microsoft feel to them
>these days, woe is me :(

>Finally I tried Debian 2.2r2 and what a fresh breath of air it was,
>more complex, than Mandrake, and I had to re install it 3 times, but
>2 of them were my fault, oh alright 2.5 and thats my final offer.

>Now I have installed Debian before, but only CLI and on old slow
>low ram boxes, and I havent had any trouble, in fact I d/l the base
>floppies from debian and used that, never adding all the other
>packages.

>This time was diferent and here's what I did (more or less)
>1/ boot of cd#1 (2 cd set)
>2/ Assign hard disk partitions, I'm using the existing partitions
>of which there are 8.
>3/ Assign host name
>4/ Assign domain name
>5/ Assign ipnumber
>6/ Assign gateway ipnumber
>7/ Assign dns ip numbers
>8/ base install
>9/ Reboot
>10/ Select install type simple or advanced
>11/ Select packages ie 'C development', 'Tex', there are only about
>ten boxes to check here.
>12/ Swap CD's when asked
>13/ Assign root password
>14/ Assign first user name and password

>Done!

>Approx 14 steps and one reboot, after all, we are installing
>the OS here!

>Then I told Debian to install some packages not installed
>in the 'simple' option. One was 'Xchat' my IRC client, and here's
>the log of the entire process :)

>...............................................................
>My CLI Command :- gronk:/home/tp# apt-get install xchat

>Reading Package Lists... Done
>Building Dependency Tree... Done
>The following extra packages will be installed:
>  python-base xchat-common
>The following NEW packages will be installed:
>  python-base xchat xchat-common
>0 packages upgraded, 3 newly installed, 0 to remove and 36 not upgraded.
>Need to get 1374kB of archives. After unpacking 4403kB will be used.

>( I just press enter here)
>Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y

>Get:1 http://http.us.debian.org stable/main python-base
>1.5.2-10potato11 [824kB]

>Get:2 http://http.us.debian.org stable/main xchat
>1.4.3-0.1[383kB]                                      

>Get:3 http://http.us.debian.org stable/main xchat-common
>1.4.3-0.1 [167kB]

>Fetched 1374kB in 7m26s (3079B/s)
>selecting previously deselected package python-base.
>(Reading database ... 28737 files and directories currently installed.)
>Unpacking python-base (from .../python-base_1.5.2-10potato11_i386.deb) ...
>Selecting previously deselected package xchat-common.
>Unpacking xchat-common
>(from .../xchat-common_1.4.3-0.1_all.deb) ...

>Selecting previously deselected package xchat.
>Unpacking xchat (from .../xchat_1.4.3-0.1_i386.deb) ...
>Setting up python-base (1.5.2-10potato11) ...

>Setting up xchat-common (1.4.3-0.1) ...

>Setting up xchat (1.4.3-0.1) ...

>gronk:/home/tp#  
>..................................................................

>Is this simple or what ???????

>As you can see, to install Xchat I needed to type only *1* line,
>and press enter twice :-

>gronk:/home/tp# apt-get install xchat

>and

>Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y

>And Debian fetched the app from its main site, plus the python base
>and installed it, *AND* added it to the *IceWm menu*, all automatically!

>Plus while it was doing it, I was reading news groups, the pc wasnt
>affected at all.

>The price for this innovative operating system ?

>Was it $2850 (gst inc) for the OS plus 5 Client Access?
>(source APC magazine June 2001, Harris Technology, for Win2k
> Small Business Server)

>But wait, send no money ......

>Was it $607 for the OS only ?
>(same source Win2k "Professional")

>But wait, theres still more .....

>I get "remote assistant" (Win2k Proffesional ONLY) and I can have
>as many clients as I like :)

>So how much did I pay ??

>$16,and that included 3 CD's and the 176 page book
>(APC "Advanced Linux Pocketbook")

>Debian I *love* you!

>--
>Kind Regards from Terry
>My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.  
>Free Micro burner: http://jsno.downunder.net.au/terry/          
>** Registration Number: 103931,  http://counter.li.org **

Yip me too.  

Debian is the ONLY way anybody should go if your going to
use Linux for anything other than a novelty.

--
Charlie
-------

 
 
 

Debian 2.2r2, I *love* you! (longish)

Post by Donn Mille » Sat, 16 Jun 2001 01:46:33



> Example: Mandrake 7.1 has a mind all of it's own on install and others
> have noticed this as well. I select "expert" mode and "text" at the
> boot screen, but yet the machine still probes hardware and sets up the
> X system incorrectly. If you select boot to gui it's all over with and
> you can't do a thing. Killing the Xserver just puts it into a loop and
> I can't even log in on an alternate console. Sometimes CAD doesn't
> even work and power off is all that works.

I hate install programs.  FreeBSD's sysinstall is really hosed if you choose
to do an ftp install; otherwise, it works fairly OK.  The ftp install option
had me pulling your hair out.  But, I imagine it doesn't mean much, since
most people will opt to d/l the ISO and burn themselves a bootable install
CD, or just install from a DOS partition.

RedHat's install program was pretty intuitive, but it was kind of
frustrating.  Sometimes FreeBSD's sysinstall leads you around in a complete
circle, and I think RedHat's installer did the same.  But, I think you're
better off just installing a minimal working system, and IFF your installed
system boots, THEN you should go back to your install program after you boot
and install the rest of the stuff.

How many times have you installed a complete system, greater than 250 MBytes,
only to find that it won't boot?  I don't know if RH will even allow a
minimal installation.

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