Very Computer

Ok, So I bought RedHat 5.2, latest and greates, with the redhat powertool CD.
I install 5.2, Ok.
try to dial out, no ppp support. ok, I compile kernel to add PPP. dial out
Ok. (not as easy as windows, but sort of works and takes longer to connect).

Ok, so I try to install stuff from the powertool CD. using glint. half of
the packages do not install becuase some need this and that. for example,
many need libXm.so.1, some need libXm.so.2, some need libgtk and who knows
what, lists and list of missing dependepencies.

not only that, I did an upgrade, where it actually removed an newer package
that was allready installed on the system and replaced it with an older
package from the CD. it looks like the glint option "upgrade" does not check
that what it is upgrading is newer or not! what kind of junk system is this
where an upgrade puts an old package in place of a new one??

ok, now for the big one, now I try to dial out again, and now I get a message
from /usr/sbin/pppd telling me that kernel has no ppp support !  this
was working just yesterday, I did dial out then, now it tells me kernel has
no ppp support?? I check the make xconfig, and sure, ppp support is there
(compiled, not module).

so, after wasting half a day on this crap, where half the apps do not
install, and now it will not dial, I decided to format the disk, and
go back to NT, where things work as expected, and application install
as they should.

you guys can keep UNIX, I am dont with it. I am back to the easy and pleasent
life of windows. may be when Linux is fixed I'll give a shot again.

Bill.

Quote:

> Ok, so I try to install stuff from the powertool CD. using glint. half of
> the packages do not install becuase some need this and that. for example,
> many need libXm.so.1, some need libXm.so.2, some need libgtk and who knows
> what, lists and list of missing dependepencies.

Quote:

> not only that, I did an upgrade, where it actually removed an newer package
> that was allready installed on the system and replaced it with an older
> package from the CD. it looks like the glint option "upgrade" does not check
> that what it is upgrading is newer or not! what kind of junk system is this
> where an upgrade puts an old package in place of a new one??

Quote:> ok, now for the big one, now I try to dial out again, and now I get a message
> from /usr/sbin/pppd telling me that kernel has no ppp support !  this
> was working just yesterday, I did dial out then, now it tells me kernel has
> no ppp support?? I check the make xconfig, and sure, ppp support is there
> (compiled, not module).

> so, after wasting half a day on this crap, where half the apps do not
> install, and now it will not dial, I decided to format the disk, and
> go back to NT, where things work as expected, and application install
> as they should.

After a hard disk crash, I decided to upgrade my server from RedHat 5.0
to 5.2, slick no problems, PPP worked right out of the box. Do you have
a PnP modem?

As for glint, I think S.u.S.E. has the right idea in that it has the
option of installing all the dependencies that it knows about. though, I
thought GLINT would do this?

I would send off an e-mail to RedHat. The problems you seem to have had
are definitely something out of the ordinary.

How long have you been using NT?

--
Mohawk Software
Windows 95, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit the Mohawk Software website: www.mohawksoft.com

Quote:>As for glint, I think S.u.S.E. has the right idea in that it has the
>option of installing all the dependencies that it knows about. though, I
>thought GLINT would do this?

Regarding your issue with ppp - did you make sure that your modem is
supported (no Winmodem?)  Also - like many others who have or will
respond to this post - ppp is standard for the install - the RPM issue
is easy, it will tell you which dependencies you'll need with the
version of glint that comes with RH 5.2 - mine did.

I myself have run NT for over 18 months now, both at work (Symantec tech
support) and at home on a dual boot machine on my LAN (for Web
Development) - IMHO, 5.2 is the best distro that has come out to date.
I have had no problems with it, unlike the 5.1 version that should have
never been released.

Linux is not for the faint at heart - I still keep a dual boot system
for apps or hardware not currently or supported on linux, IT has taken
me 9 months of breaking, reinstalling and just using it to get where I
am at with it currently.  I am by no means a Linux GURU, but it is
getting easier to do the more common things I need to do with it.  Don't
give up, at some point all of these things will click in, and you'll
wonder why you stuck with NT in the first place.

Cliff Etzel
ClifCom

**REMOVE THE NOSPAM TO REPLY**

Quote:>Ok, so I try to install stuff from the powertool CD. using glint. half of
>the packages do not install becuase some need this and that. for example,
>many need libXm.so.1, some need libXm.so.2, some need libgtk and who knows
>what, lists and list of missing dependepencies.

Quote:>not only that, I did an upgrade, where it actually removed an newer package
>that was allready installed on the system and replaced it with an older
>package from the CD. it looks like the glint option "upgrade" does not check
>that what it is upgrading is newer or not! what kind of junk system is this
>where an upgrade puts an old package in place of a new one??

Quote:>ok, now for the big one, now I try to dial out again, and now I get a message
>from /usr/sbin/pppd telling me that kernel has no ppp support !  this
>was working just yesterday, I did dial out then, now it tells me kernel has
>no ppp support?? I check the make xconfig, and sure, ppp support is there
>(compiled, not module).

--
Brett W. McCoy          
                                        http://www.lan2wan.com/~bmccoy/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected."
   -- The UNIX Programmer's Manual, 2nd Edition, June, 1972

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12


------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

--
Brett W. McCoy          
                                        http://www.lan2wan.com/~bmccoy/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected."
   -- The UNIX Programmer's Manual, 2nd Edition, June, 1972

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12


------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Quote:> Ok, so I try to install stuff from the powertool CD. using glint. half of
> the packages do not install becuase some need this and that. for example,
> many need libXm.so.1, some need libXm.so.2, some need libgtk and who knows
> what, lists and list of missing dependepencies.

Quote:> not only that, I did an upgrade, where it actually removed an newer package
> that was allready installed on the system and replaced it with an older
> package from the CD. it looks like the glint option "upgrade" does not check
> that what it is upgrading is newer or not! what kind of junk system is this
> where an upgrade puts an old package in place of a new one??

Quote:> ok, now for the big one, now I try to dial out again, and now I get a message
> from /usr/sbin/pppd telling me that kernel has no ppp support !  this
> was working just yesterday, I did dial out then, now it tells me kernel has
> no ppp support?? I check the make xconfig, and sure, ppp support is there
> (compiled, not module).

Quote:> so, after wasting half a day on this crap, where half the apps do not
> install, and now it will not dial, I decided to format the disk, and
> go back to NT, where things work as expected, and application install
> as they should.

Quote:> you guys can keep UNIX, I am dont with it. I am back to the easy and pleasent
> life of windows. may be when Linux is fixed I'll give a shot again.

> Bill.

--
Have you seen my .sig file?
I dropped it somewhere in the alt* heirarchy.

Quote:>PPP support is built into the kernel in RH 5.2.  It doesn't even sound as
>if you even read any of the documentation. Page 168 of the RH Linux manual
>describes how to set up a PPP connection.  It is just as easy as it is in
>Windows, using either netcfg or linuxconf.

--
Brett W. McCoy          
                                        http://www.lan2wan.com/~bmccoy/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected."
   -- The UNIX Programmer's Manual, 2nd Edition, June, 1972

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12


------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

--Tim Smith

Quote:

>>Ok, So I bought RedHat 5.2, latest and greates, with the redhat powertool CD.
>>I install 5.2, Ok.
>>try to dial out, no ppp support. ok, I compile kernel to add PPP. dial out
>>Ok. (not as easy as windows, but sort of works and takes longer to connect).

>PPP support is built into the kernel in RH 5.2.  It doesn't even sound as
>if you even read any of the documentation. Page 168 of the RH Linux manual
>describes how to set up a PPP connection.  It is just as easy as it is in
>Windows, using either netcfg or linuxconf.

I start ppp like this:

become root. Then start control panel, then click on network icon, then
click on interfaces, then highlitght the ppp0 line, then click on
"activate". (offcourse I did configure it before with ISP phone number,
DNS IP etc..). to log out, I click on "deactivate".

This was working fine. now I do the same, and I get error that ppp support
is not in kernel.

I suspect that using glint, I installed something from the powertools CD
that broke ppp. I installed do many packages, I think it installed an
older package replacing a newer package that broke ppp?

Quote:

>>Ok, so I try to install stuff from the powertool CD. using glint. half of
>>the packages do not install becuase some need this and that. for example,
>>many need libXm.so.1, some need libXm.so.2, some need libgtk and who knows
>>what, lists and list of missing dependepencies.

>It seems that you didn't install X in the main installation, or these
>would be available.

Quote:>>not only that, I did an upgrade, where it actually removed an newer package
>>that was allready installed on the system and replaced it with an older
>>package from the CD. it looks like the glint option "upgrade" does not check
>>that what it is upgrading is newer or not! what kind of junk system is this
>>where an upgrade puts an old package in place of a new one??

>I find this hard to believe.

rpm -qa | grep package_name

and found that the newer package gone, and now the older one is in its place.
(comparing package version numbers).

Quote:> I haven't used glint that much, but prefer
>to use the actual software glint is only a front end for, rpm.  It does
>tell you if you are installing over an older package, and will abort the
>installation unless you explicitly force the package.

Quote:>>ok, now for the big one, now I try to dial out again, and now I get a message
>>from /usr/sbin/pppd telling me that kernel has no ppp support !  this
>>was working just yesterday, I did dial out then, now it tells me kernel has
>>no ppp support?? I check the make xconfig, and sure, ppp support is there
>>(compiled, not module).

>How are you starting the ppp connection?  Are you using ppp-on?  Does pppd
>have its suid bit set so you can start it as non-root?  Did you even
>bother looking at the PPP-HOWTO document that is included with Red Hat
>5.2?

why would redhat have a powertool CD with packages in it, that is missing
dependecies?? where the heck I am supposed to go look for libXm.so.2 ??
this is junk. the system should come with all the dependencies it needs,
and should take care of all that. a user is not expected to go chase
and figure where to download this and that file to make glint happy.

this I find one of the weakest point in Linux.

bill.

Quote:

>But half a day isn't really giving
>the product much of a chance.

Quote:>I don't think you have the patience at this juncture.

it is true what they say: linux is free for those whose time in worthless.

wishing redhat/Linux good luck, it sure needs it.

Bill.

I just went ahead and rebuild the kernel (2.0.36, redhat 5.2), to make
PPP support is there. and guess what, now startx hangs, and X will not come
up. I had to reboot the machine. I guess the building of the kernel
screwed something.

maybe becuase I installed egcs 2.8 (latest comiler) before, I saw lots
of warning messages comeup during the compile, and an #error telling
me that the code was not tested with 2.8, only 2.7.* (from types.h).

since I want to use 2.8 (ami supposed to unistall gcc back to 2.7 before
I compile the kernel, and then install 2.8 again everytime??). So I commented
away the #error statment.

Now the system build, (with lots of warnings), but I do get a zImage. So
I copy it to /boot, run lilo (all the stadard stuff), reboot, and X will
not start and system hangs.

such a crapy system for sure. is this the thing that is supposed to dominate
the world?? this is such a joke of a system. We really need a third OS.
Linux/Unix and windows are both crap. May be I should go check BeOS.

there got to be easy to use, solid, flexible, predictable OS out there
for the masses to use. it sure is not Linux. At least with windows it works.
it might work bad sometimes, but at least it still works.

Bill

spending half a day to get PPP connection is a waste for anyone's time,
offcourse this is if your time is worth anything.

On NT I spend 5 minutes to setup PPP and it worked first time, and it
still works everytime and its been a year since I setup.

Bill

I now moved back the orginal kernel (good thing I saved a copy of the image)
and run lilo, and rebooted. so I am now running the orginal red-hat kernel,
this is the error:

Dec 31 20:34:37 localhost kernel: PPP: version 2.2.0 (dynamic channel
 allocation)

Dec 31 20:34:37 localhost kernel: PPP Dynamic channel allocation code copyright
 1995 Caldera , Inc.

Dec 31 20:34:37 localhost kernel: PPP line discipline registered.

Dec 31 20:34:37 localhost pppd[734]: Failed to open /dev/ttyS1: Device or
resource busy(16)

Dec 31 20:34:37 localhost pppd[734]: This system lacks kernel support for PPP.
 This could be because the PPP kernel module is not loaded, or because the
 kernel is not configured for PPP.  See the README.linux file in the ppp-2.3.5
 distribution.

Dec 31 20:34:52 localhost ifup-ppp: pppd started for ppp0 on /dev/ttyS1 at 57600
Dec 31 20:34:52 localhost pppd[743]: Failed to open /dev/ttyS1: Device or
resource busy(16)

etc..

(dont mind the date off by one day, I did not yet fixed the clock on the PC).

Quote:

>>>It seems that you didn't install X in the main installation, or these
>>>would be available.

>>offcourse I installed X. Actually I choose EVERYTHING when installing
>>red hat. I have 60GB total space on my PC, I always install everything.
>>X is fine.

>60GB?  Do you have a RAID?

Quote:

>Actually, for rpm to use this, you have to explicitly tell it to install
>an older package with the --oldpackage option.

>>There is not "force" option with glint? there  is an "upgrade" and "install".
>>I always choose "upgrade" since it will always install it also if there
>>is nothing there to upgrade.

>I wouldn't use glint.  Use rpm on the command line.  It's much more
>flexible.

Well, any way, now that I can start X again (after the mess of building
the kernel with egcs 2.8 and breaking X), I did this:

started minicom, dialed some number, the modem did work, I exited minicom,
and tried ppp again. guess what, now it works!!  I tried ppp before using
minicom, and I get the above error, but now it works! (same steps)

I am writing this from netscape from Linux. So, It looks like minicom
intialized the modem or something, all what I know is that now ppp works !
(why was it saying modem device was busy before? may be this has something
to do with it).

gee, any way, well at least I can dialout now from Linux. so may be there is
still hope for this OS.

bill.

Quote:>so, after wasting half a day on this crap, where half the apps do not

Dave Cook