Very Computer

is it possibul to put linux on a 486/66mhz with only a floppy drive?

On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:47:02 -0800, Micah Higgs
Sure, I have it on my 386/sx25 mhz router right now.

It boots from the floppy drive, and thats all it needs.

On the other hand you may mean, 'can I install, Linux with only a floppy drive'
?
The answer is yes to that as well.You can d/l a minimal floppy dist of Debian
(www.debian.org) on 8 floppies (2.0.36 kernel), that will run on a 120 meg hdd,
thats what Ive got on my spare which is an old 486/50.

You can do just about anything with Linux

Likewise the base install and minimal networking capabilities can be done
with Slackware 7.1 (2.2.16) by floppy, to the level where one has a
complete base system and enough networking capability to install anything
else from the distro over a LAN or from a download. If one uses older
Slack (through about 3.4 or 5; 2.0.34 or so), all packages are installable
by floppy. Many of the packages got too big for a single diskette after
that.

--Kevin

Quote:>is it possibul to put linux on a 486/66mhz with only a floppy drive?

Floppy only is tough, though there are likely solutions.  I ran with
Linux on a 486/DX2 40 with 4 MB ram and 80 MB hard disk for several
years.  It is very possible but you have to know what you are doing to
do the install since all the defaults on the modern easy packages will
install much more than 100 MB.

Run Slackware or Debian if you are going small on old hardware...

--
cu,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence:  http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
sign the Linux Driver Petition:  http://www.libranet.com/petition.html

Yes.  Check www.debian.org for some instructions.

Mark

No problem.  After the base system is running, with networking,
just download to hard disk, and install from there.

Quote:

> --Kevin

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i have a 81 meg hard disk and only 2 megs of ram. i would get more ram
but it is the old 30 pin kind for IBM type computers. dose anyone have
this kind or know how to get it cheap?

and befor i fdisk the computer to laod linux is thare a help book so i
dont kill the computer.(i am new to linux) the only system i know right
know is ms-dos. so how differnt is linux from the other systems?

thanks,micah

You do need 16 meg RAM. Perhaps "need" is too strong, but things slow
down a lot. I recommend loading a minimum system from floppies, and down
loading the rest over a network if possible.
I first ran Linux on a 33mhz 386 and just recently retired my last 486.
--
Russ Lyttle, PE
<http://www.flash.net/~lyttlec>
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 Not sure if you mean install it from floppy or use one of the
super mini distros that only have 1 or 2 floppies. (the router
on a disk thing).

--
Jim Broughton
(The Amiga OS! Now there was an OS)
If Sense were common everyone would have it!

Quote:> i have a 81 meg hard disk and only 2 megs of ram.

Ouch.  I haven't seen a Linux distro which could run
in that tiny a space.  The smallest rating I've
seen for a *usable* distribution is about 100MB of
hard drive space and 4MB of RAM.  Slackware's
"ZipSlack" distribution for running in a 100MB DOS
partition won't even fit on your system.

While your original question implied lack of money,
I really think you might want to upgrade a little
bit, say to 8MB RAM and at least a 200MB hard drive.
Even the overpriced mom and pop shops around where I
live charge less than $40 for a 340MB hard drive.

Heck, you can sometimes find an entire 486 *computer*,
for about $75, with more RAM and hard drive space
than you currently have!

Quote:> i would get more ram but it is the old 30 pin kind
> for IBM type computers. dose anyone have this kind
> or know how to get it cheap?

Well, you'd think you'd find it cheap, but you won't.
That kind of RAM SIMM is very difficult to find these
days, and the limited supply drives up the price for
all shops, except maybe the folks wanting to dump
their 30-pin SIMM RAM, and they can get a better price
on their 30-pin ram by selling them as *keychains*
rather than as memory.

A local shop prices 30-pin 4MB SIMMs at $32 per
SIMM, and 1MB SIMMs for $10 each.  Memory prices
have gone up again, old and new memory alike.

You might be able to find a mail-order place with
cheaper prices, but they will be sending you used
SIMMs, and there are shipping costs to increase the
price.

I really hate trying to solve Linux problems by
suggesting that someone "spend money", but one way
which I got around your kind of problem was with a
little money.  At a recent surplus auction at a local
community college (call the college offices in your
area for details on similar auctions) I purchased
three 100Mhz Pentium machines, with 800MB hard drives,
16MB of RAM, and a number of video and other cards,
for about $7.50 each.  Monitors and keyboards were
purchased as part of stacks of hardware for about $20
for a 17" monitor, and $5 each for three 15" monitors
(sorry, people knew the value of the 19" monitors,
which went for $120 each).

The * industry has everyone thinking that 450Mhz
machines are *slow*, so you can really clean up at
local auctions.

EBay is different, since you aren't competing against
local folks who might not realize that a 100MHz Pentium
is still very useful.  A large chunk of Internet users
know the value of a 100Mhz Pentium (some of them are
even Linux users) and won't let you get one for $7.50.

There are also local and travelling computer shows
to check into.  You will probably find out about them
in newspaper ads and any local computing independent
newspapers.  These shows typically cost $3-$8 to get
in, but they have dozens to hundreds of vendors eager
not to have to take anything home with them.  I've
purchased a 10" testing VGA monitor for $3, 16MB of
30-pin SIMM RAM for $20, CPUs, printers, motherboards,
hard drives, etc., all for well below local store
prices.  You can get the best prices from vendors
at just before the show closes, since anything you
buy from them right before they have to pack is
something they don't have to pack.

Quote:> and befor i fdisk the computer to laod linux is thare
> a help book so i dont kill the computer.(i am new to
> linux) the only system i know right know is ms-dos.
> so how differnt is linux from the other systems?

OOooo, complete newbie.  Lessee, you're probably stuck
with the Slackware Linux distribution, so a good book
on the Slackware Linux distribution would be good.

Slackware Linux even has a basic floppy install, so
you might even be able to install a base system on
your 486.  You just won't be able to do many productive
things on it (especially not the Internet).  You will
still need a box of floppies (about 25 should do) and
a desktop computer with an operating system (any kind),
knowledge on how to use that operating system, and a
CDROM drive on that desktop computer.

81MB.  Hmmm.  You will need to partition the drive.
Slackware has instructions on this, and you will need
to use the Linux FDISK.  I would create two primary
partitions (unlike DOS, you can create two primary
partitions), one which is 8MB in size and the other
one using up all remaining space (about 72MB or so).
Use the "t" command to change the partition type of
the first partition to 82, and leave the partition
type of the second partition at 83.  This will give
you a "swap" partition of 8MB (4 times physical
memory) and a "root" partition of 72MB.

This will give you enough room to install the
"A-series" of Slackware disks (50MB required).  I'd
hunt around on the N-series of disks for a package
called "pine.tgz" and install it as well (command:
"installpkg pine.tgz").  PINE is normally known as
an e-mail program (which you won't be doing on *this*
system) but it includes a text editor called PICO
which is very easy to use (unlike VI or EMacs;
remember, he is a complete newbie!).

Chances are you will not have a serious enough error
that you will kill the computer, with any current
distribution of Linux.  If you run into problems,
you can always wipe out the drive and restore it to
full DOS compatibility by booting with a DOS boot
disk and using the following commands:

[1]
    fdisk /mbr

[2]
    fdisk

The first command restores the Master Boot Record,
which is where the Linux Loader (LILO) is usually
stored on your hard drive.  The second command lets
you remove the Linux partitions and create new
DOS partitions.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.veryComputer.com/
Before you buy.

Yes, but what can be done with that minimal install?
Can you do more than edit files using vi?

Frankly, Linux is a disk and memory hog when it comes to
the basic system requirements to be able to do anything
*with* Linux once you get it installed.  Sure, you can
install it on just about anything, but doing something
with an install on "just about anything" can be difficult.

Quote:> You can do just about anything with Linux

No, the correct phrase is "you can install Linux on
just about anything.  Whether you can do anything
with Linux on that system is another matter."

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

"Need" is too strong.  Linux uses the hardware better
than DOS, so ironically even at 4MB or 8MB you will
see a speed increase when you switch from DOS to Linux.
Add a 1x or 2x physical memory swap partition, and
you're doing fine.

Quote:> I recommend loading a minimum system from floppies,
> and downloading the rest over a network if possible.

The problem may be that Micah doesn't have the hard
drive space for the full system, and possibly not even
a second desktop to "download from".  One needs to
understand that not everyone has a full gig of hard
drive space, or even half that, and not everyone has a
second computer with a CDROM drive and/or network card.

I installed my first Linux computer by floppy-installing
Slackware onto a 486/50 using floppies generated by a
desktop at my college.  The lab monitors would have been
very annoyed had I plugged my first Linux computer into
their network to finish the install.  :)

Something to think about: a complete workstation install
of RedHat 5.2 (base system, development, X Windows, etc.)
only takes a little less than 500MB of hard drive space,
if you can borrow a CDROM drive from someone or have a
network card and an already-functional desktop computer.

Quote:> I first ran Linux on a 33mhz 386 and just recently
> retired my last 486.

I still run Slackware 7.1 on a 486/66 with 16MB of RAM
and an 800MB hard drive.  I wasn't able to full install,
but I did manage to get nearly everything including
a base development, networking, and X-Window setup.

Of course, that machine is only one of three Linux
systems on my home network, the other two being
a 100Mhz Pentium and a 200Mhz AMD-something (forget at
the moment).

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Given the rather non-technical language, I would greatly
suspect that he wants as much of a full install as possible.

People who want single or two-floppy complete Linux systems
tend to ask for them by name, as well as the router on a
disk system.  They also tend to ask for them on a NG less
devoted to advocating Linux for the masses, such as
comp.os.linux.hardware or comp.os.linux.setup.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

I installed a copy of Linux (Slackware) in a 120Mb partition and was able to
use X-Windows with fvwm2, an email package, browser etc. and had a perfectly
useable system with space to spare.

ian.

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 | |

Quote:>i have a 81 meg hard disk and only 2 megs of ram. i would get more ram
>but it is the old 30 pin kind for IBM type computers. dose anyone have
>this kind or know how to get it cheap?

>and befor i fdisk the computer to laod linux is thare a help book so i
>dont kill the computer.(i am new to linux) the only system i know right
>know is ms-dos. so how differnt is linux from the other systems?

Get the Linux Installation and Getting Started or whatever it is called
now.  The Linux Network Administration Guide is also helpful.  These
were both drafts in PS files at the time I got started... at least one
is a book from O'Reilly now.  The basic system administration book from
O'Reilly most likely covers Linux now.  In 1994 it didn't but was still
very useful.

--
cu,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence:  http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
sign the Linux Driver Petition:  http://www.libranet.com/petition.html