Suggestions for advocacy

Suggestions for advocacy

Post by Tim » Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:45:38



1. Call your local newspaper and ask the editor in charge of
technology issues if they would run a story or series of stories on
open source software.  The public needs to be informed.

2. Call/write your congressperson-senator-PR or whatever to ask
his/her position on:
        a. the use of open source in government, as an alternative to M$
        b. software patents.  Are they even aware of the harm patents do?
Advocate for open source and no software patents

3. Push for open source classes in local high schools and community
colleges.  This is where a lot of people get started with the OS that
they will use for years to come, and it is where your clout as a
voting, tax-paying citizen can be most effective.

4. Post your actions, methods, and results here on COLA

 
 
 

Suggestions for advocacy

Post by d2002x » Mon, 18 Nov 2002 19:45:33



Quote:> 1. Call your local newspaper and ask the editor in charge of technology issues
> if they would run a story or series of stories on open source software.  The
> public needs to be informed.

Informing idiots is a waste of time.

Quote:

> 2. Call/write your congressperson-senator-PR or whatever to ask his/her
> position on:
>    a. the use of open source in government, as an alternative to M$
>    b. software patents.  Are they even aware of the harm patents do?

They can't. Lots of retards in tw were just started to teach people how
important the patent is.

Quote:> Advocate for open source and no software patents

> 3. Push for open source classes in local high schools and community colleges.
> This is where a lot of people get started with the OS that they will use for
> years to come, and it is where your clout as a voting, tax-paying citizen can
> be most effective.

The real problem is in how much money those politicians earn, others are just
trivial.

Quote:

> 4. Post your actions, methods, and results here on COLA

Ok, until now, I can only do one thing right - flame on people who post windows
articles to X-window board in BBS, or recommand them to use linux to solve their
stupid problems,

--
d2002xx
retired COLA wintroll-feeder #1

 
 
 

Suggestions for advocacy

Post by Yog Soggot » Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:22:32




>> 1. Call your local newspaper and ask the editor in charge of technology
>> issues
>> if they would run a story or series of stories on open source software.
>> The public needs to be informed.

> Informing idiots is a waste of time.

The long-term growth and success of gnu/linux is dependent on its widespread
adoption by the general public.  The more end users are using Linux, the
less companies will be able to offer windows-only solutions which ignore
interoperability issues and industry standards.

I think you do the Linux community a grave disservice when you refer to the
general public as idiots.  Microsoft is working hard enough to marginalize
us.  Why are you attempting to assist them in their efforts?

Quote:>> 2. Call/write your congressperson-senator-PR or whatever to ask his/her
>> position on:
>> a. the use of open source in government, as an alternative to M$
>> b. software patents.  Are they even aware of the harm patents do?

> They can't. Lots of retards in tw were just started to teach people how
> important the patent is.

this is another critical issue.  People who regard themselves as free
software and open source advocates should be willing to advocate Linux in
every level of government.  Each municipality, every state, in congress,
and in every federal administrative office.  We have better products with
lower startup costs, lower total costs of ownership, and more fair
licensing programs.  That message needs to get out there because the
machine that we are fighting has spent $3 billion in marketing over the
last 10 years and has billions more in its war chest.

Quote:>> Advocate for open source and no software patents

>> 3. Push for open source classes in local high schools and community
>> colleges. This is where a lot of people get started with the OS that they
>> will use for years to come, and it is where your clout as a voting,
>> tax-paying citizen can be most effective.

> The real problem is in how much money those politicians earn, others are
> just trivial.

the real problem is that we need to take the fight on every level.  
programming classes should be taught using gcc and linux.  General software
classes should be taught using mozilla and open source office products.  
politicians need to clarify their position on open source.  government
purchasing agents should be put into a position where every dollar that
they spend tying themselves to proprietary licensing schemes that raise
costs and harm the public interest should be challenged at every
opportunity.

Quote:>> 4. Post your actions, methods, and results here on COLA

> Ok, until now, I can only do one thing right - flame on people who post
> windows articles to X-window board in BBS, or recommand them to use linux
> to solve their stupid problems,

... and that is the least effective form of advocacy that you could
undertake.  You are playing for the other side when you refer to people's
problems as stupid and flame them for using windows.  All it does is
marginalize us.
 
 
 

Suggestions for advocacy

Post by Pat Dunba » Mon, 18 Nov 2002 17:00:00


On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 13:45:38 GMT


> 1. Call your local newspaper and ask the editor in charge of
> technology issues if they would run a story or series of stories on
> open source software.  The public needs to be informed.

> 2. Call/write your congressperson-senator-PR or whatever to ask
> his/her position on:
>    a. the use of open source in government, as an alternative to M$
>    b. software patents.  Are they even aware of the harm patents do?
> Advocate for open source and no software patents

> 3. Push for open source classes in local high schools and community
> colleges.  This is where a lot of people get started with the OS that
> they will use for years to come, and it is where your clout as a
> voting, tax-paying citizen can be most effective.

> 4. Post your actions, methods, and results here on COLA

May I suggest a #5?

Most of us work in places where we have to use computers, right? How about getting on better terms with the IT staff (if you aren't already the IT staff yourself that is) and showing them how the organization could benefit from LGX?

I'm admin support (not IT) but managed to talk them into letting me run LGX at work - and since they wanted something official (with corporate support, help lines, and a long history of business use, etc) they got me RH 7.3 to use. So far, it's been awesome .. the box has never crashed or gotten a virus of any kind .. we even use it as an application server for some of the tasks they wanted to move off the big server.

Now that the IT guys have seen it in use, they're a lot warmer to the idea of deploying more LGX in the office. Especially on days when the windoze boxes are causing them nothing but grief.

Has anyone else gone this route?

--
To have no errors
would be life without meaning.
No struggle, no joy.

 
 
 

Suggestions for advocacy

Post by Kenneth Down » Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:30:27



> May I suggest a #5?

> Most of us work in places where we have to use computers, right? How about
> getting on better terms with the IT staff (if you aren't already the IT
> staff yourself that is) and showing them how the organization could
> benefit from LGX?

> I'm admin support (not IT) but managed to talk them into letting me run
> LGX at work - and since they wanted something official (with corporate
> support, help lines, and a long history of business use, etc) they got me
> RH 7.3 to use. So far, it's been awesome .. the box has never crashed or
> gotten a virus of any kind .. we even use it as an application server for
> some of the tasks they wanted to move off the big server.

> Now that the IT guys have seen it in use, they're a lot warmer to the idea
> of deploying more LGX in the office. Especially on days when the windoze
> boxes are causing them nothing but grief.

> Has anyone else gone this route?

Yes.  I put SuSE 7.3 on the laptop, and was given $300.00 to buy vmware (!!)
so I could run stuff like Foxpro and MS SQL Server when necessary.

This warmed them up quite a bit and I was authorized to put Linux onto a Web
Server.

Next we'll be replacing my personal PC with a 2.4GHz box (that's
turbo-powered for a ws where I come from), with a twist.  It will have
Win2k running with Terminal Services inside of a vmware virtual box.  This
allows me to keep a necessary evil - win2k - up and running in a stable
situation, with a nightly cron'd backup of the whole dang thing.  

When this machine rolls in in the next couple of weeks, I will have achieved
the unthinkable, established Linux as the desktop OS for the lead architect
of a Windows-only application.  Nice.

--
Ken
->Thou Shalt Not Make a Machine In the Image of A Human Mind

 
 
 

Suggestions for advocacy

Post by Simon Cook » Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:21:16



Quote:> 1. Call your local newspaper and ask the editor in charge of
> technology issues if they would run a story or series of stories on
> open source software.  The public needs to be informed.

> 2. Call/write your congressperson-senator-PR or whatever to ask
> his/her position on:
> a. the use of open source in government, as an alternative to M$
> b. software patents.  Are they even aware of the harm patents do?
> Advocate for open source and no software patents

> 3. Push for open source classes in local high schools and community
> colleges.  This is where a lot of people get started with the OS that
> they will use for years to come, and it is where your clout as a
> voting, tax-paying citizen can be most effective.

> 4. Post your actions, methods, and results here on COLA

Don't forget:

5. Complain to the press and to your congressman that the Gates
Foundation is donating money for AIDS relief in India (and across the
rest of the world) just to put Linux down.

Simon

 
 
 

Suggestions for advocacy

Post by Simon Cook » Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:22:59



Quote:> There's an article on www.theregister.co.uk mentioning how gates
> plunked $100million to India to fight Aids (spread over 10years), and
> $421million (spread over 3years) to fight Linux and promote Windows.
> Doing the math, that's (100/10=)$10million a year vs
> (421/3=)$140million a year.

No; Gates plunked down $100m to fight Aids. Microsoft (whose CEO is
Steve Ballmer) plunked down $421m.

Simon

 
 
 

Suggestions for advocacy

Post by Yog Soggot » Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:26:36



> Now that the IT guys have seen it in use, they're a lot warmer to the idea
> of deploying more LGX in the office. Especially on days when the windoze
> boxes are causing them nothing but grief.

> Has anyone else gone this route?

At my last job, I persuaded our CIO to let me re-allocate hardware that was
at the end of its 2-3 year lifecycle for NT servers and install GNU/Linux
to meet needs for projects where we didn't have immediate budget or where
other teams were simply taking to long to deploy a solution.  

Often times, we could roll out a free software / open sourced solution
"prototype" which would go into production, and remain in production,
faster than other solution development teams ( e.g., Lotus, Windows, 4gl's
) could handle the analysis phases of such projects.  Some of the teams
simply couldn't feasibly develop a solution due to limitations inherent to
the proprietary legacy software we had deployed (e.g., we'd pay an external
vendor to develop an application which we needed to change but for which we
only had rights to the binary image, not the source code).  

We ended up with a half dozen or so systems that way running things like
Apache, MySQL, Samba, etc.  Once they proved their usefulness we started
getting money allocated specifically for hardware to run GNU/Linux.

We were able to increase ROI for hardware by increasing the hardware
lifecycle and meanwhile get management to recognize the strengths of
GNU/Linux versus proprietary software which increased its deployment as a
print/file/web/database, etc.

All of this was with no license cost for developer seats or production
licenses.  

The main place where we really killed other teams were in productivity and
cost of developer seat licenses / deployment licenses since our
productivity was whole orders of magnitude higher and since our licensing
cost us next to nothing even though we unnecessarily but intentionally paid
for every copy of Linux software that we deployed.  Another main advantage
that GNU/Linux had was as middleware to get 2 disparate proprietary
applications that needed to fit together but didn't to "talk to each
other".

Today, I'm working in an environment where GNU/Linux and Solaris are the
norm in server-space and we are pushing Linux/X11 out as a client platform
or as a server-based thin client solution for web kiosks.

We spend a fraction on software/hardware/staff than we did in my last
environment which favored windows/mainframe as a primary client/server
environment.

The upshot of this is that GNU/Linux will make you look like a hero in
environments where they are used to the high costs and low productivity
generally associated with proprietary software development systems such as
Windows, Lotus, or 4gl's.

When you can tell an IT director with a straight face that you are going to
save them $25,000 - $50,000 in licensing cost, and another $25,000 or more
in labor, and that you've already got the application prototype ready to
roll, they have a very hard time *NOT* listening to you.

 
 
 

Suggestions for advocacy

Post by d2002 » Tue, 19 Nov 2002 02:52:00





> >> 1. Call your local newspaper and ask the editor in charge of technology
> >> issues
> >> if they would run a story or series of stories on open source software.
> >> The public needs to be informed.

> > Informing idiots is a waste of time.

> The long-term growth and success of gnu/linux is dependent on its widespread
> adoption by the general public.  The more end users are using Linux, the
> less companies will be able to offer windows-only solutions which ignore
> interoperability issues and industry standards.

> I think you do the Linux community a grave disservice when you refer to the
> general public as idiots.  Microsoft is working hard enough to marginalize
> us.  Why are you attempting to assist them in their efforts?

> >> 2. Call/write your congressperson-senator-PR or whatever to ask his/her
> >> position on:
> >> a. the use of open source in government, as an alternative to M$
> >> b. software patents.  Are they even aware of the harm patents do?

> > They can't. Lots of retards in tw were just started to teach people how
> > important the patent is.

> this is another critical issue.  People who regard themselves as free
> software and open source advocates should be willing to advocate Linux in
> every level of government.  Each municipality, every state, in congress,
> and in every federal administrative office.  We have better products with
> lower startup costs, lower total costs of ownership, and more fair
> licensing programs.  That message needs to get out there because the
> machine that we are fighting has spent $3 billion in marketing over the
> last 10 years and has billions more in its war chest.

> >> Advocate for open source and no software patents

> >> 3. Push for open source classes in local high schools and community
> >> colleges. This is where a lot of people get started with the OS that they
> >> will use for years to come, and it is where your clout as a voting,
> >> tax-paying citizen can be most effective.

> > The real problem is in how much money those politicians earn, others are
> > just trivial.

> the real problem is that we need to take the fight on every level.  
> programming classes should be taught using gcc and linux.  General software
> classes should be taught using mozilla and open source office products.  
> politicians need to clarify their position on open source.  government
> purchasing agents should be put into a position where every dollar that
> they spend tying themselves to proprietary licensing schemes that raise
> costs and harm the public interest should be challenged at every
> opportunity.

> >> 4. Post your actions, methods, and results here on COLA

> > Ok, until now, I can only do one thing right - flame on people who post
> > windows articles to X-window board in BBS, or recommand them to use linux
> > to solve their stupid problems,

> ... and that is the least effective form of advocacy that you could
> undertake.  You are playing for the other side when you refer to people's
> problems as stupid and flame them for using windows.  All it does is
> marginalize us.

All right, but how I can adovcate linux snd open source to people who
just see linux and open source as a "cheap" alternative? On the
x-window board and linux board of the BBS in .tw, even most of linux
users complain that linux lack decent applications (even including
development tools) and incompatible with windows, and they know
nothing except for KDE and GNOME - they don't know and care any
features of linux over than windows except for "cheap", and they don't
want to learn the new environemnt - just want it look&feel like
windows. I think that's some kind of insult on those developers (both
of the two boards are not for flame - messages there are rarely
jokes.)
 
 
 

Suggestions for advocacy

Post by Yog Soggot » Tue, 19 Nov 2002 04:06:18



> All right, but how I can adovcate linux snd open source to people who
> just see linux and open source as a "cheap" alternative? On the
> x-window board and linux board of the BBS in .tw, even most of linux
> users complain that linux lack decent applications (even including
> development tools) and incompatible with windows, and they know
> nothing except for KDE and GNOME - they don't know and care any
> features of linux over than windows except for "cheap", and they don't
> want to learn the new environemnt - just want it look&feel like
> windows. I think that's some kind of insult on those developers (both
> of the two boards are not for flame - messages there are rarely
> jokes.)

The best thing to do, IMO, if you are a student is to learn the tools well
enough to implement them as a solution.  If you are a developer or an
admin, to get your solutions implemented at work. And then to share your
success with the world.

One thing that helped the perl folks to build their userbase in the early
1990's was to post in shell and admin forums how they solved shell problems
with perl in an attempt to show problem domains for which (in their view)
perl was a better solution.

People cannot argue with you if you can implement something that they cannot
easily match.  And if they can match it, which solution works better or
costs less to implement?  With GNU/Linux, you will usually come out on top.

WRT the developer tools, it is hard to get most people who were raised in a
GUI environment to fully appreciate the CLI until they've actually used it
for awhile and realized that all of the limitations they used to have to
work around in the gui environment can be solved quickly and easily with a
good shell and a large set of quality utilities.  being rooted in UNIX,
Linux possesses a much more flexible and powerful approach to application
development than the monolithic applications used in Windows, lotus, and
other development environments, but you may just have to satisfy yourself
with the smug sense of self-satisfaction that you can do it better and
cheaper in Linux than someone else can in windows.

 
 
 

Suggestions for advocacy

Post by d2002x » Tue, 19 Nov 2002 10:26:11




>> All right, but how I can adovcate linux snd open source to people who
>> just see linux and open source as a "cheap" alternative? On the
>> x-window board and linux board of the BBS in .tw, even most of linux
>> users complain that linux lack decent applications (even including
>> development tools) and incompatible with windows, and they know
>> nothing except for KDE and GNOME - they don't know and care any
>> features of linux over than windows except for "cheap", and they don't
>> want to learn the new environemnt - just want it look&feel like
>> windows. I think that's some kind of insult on those developers (both
>> of the two boards are not for flame - messages there are rarely
>> jokes.)

> The best thing to do, IMO, if you are a student is to learn the tools well
> enough to implement them as a solution.  If you are a developer or an
> admin, to get your solutions implemented at work. And then to share your
> success with the world.

> One thing that helped the perl folks to build their userbase in the early
> 1990's was to post in shell and admin forums how they solved shell problems
> with perl in an attempt to show problem domains for which (in their view)
> perl was a better solution.

> People cannot argue with you if you can implement something that they cannot
> easily match.  And if they can match it, which solution works better or
> costs less to implement?  With GNU/Linux, you will usually come out on top.

> WRT the developer tools, it is hard to get most people who were raised in a
> GUI environment to fully appreciate the CLI until they've actually used it
> for awhile and realized that all of the limitations they used to have to
> work around in the gui environment can be solved quickly and easily with a
> good shell and a large set of quality utilities.  being rooted in UNIX,
> Linux possesses a much more flexible and powerful approach to application
> development than the monolithic applications used in Windows, lotus, and
> other development environments, but you may just have to satisfy yourself
> with the smug sense of self-satisfaction that you can do it better and
> cheaper in Linux than someone else can in windows.

Thanks, now I'm working on a dynamical-contented www server for a organization
in my college.  But I don't know how to show the advantages of linux GUI - it's
very powerful and efficient and looks far better, but they want only the ease of
learning and the ability of being compatible with windows (you guys know I don't
use KDE and GNOME and my GUI heavily depends on keyboards.)  Also the
development tools, it's hard to convince people who never work with unix to use
xemacs or emacs, unless they have lots of time and patience (and I can't tell
how bad the IDEs that they use are, because they're new to programming and don't
have enough experience.)

--
d2002xx
retired COLA wintroll-feeder #1

 
 
 

Suggestions for advocacy

Post by Yog Soggot » Wed, 20 Nov 2002 08:52:19



> Thanks, now I'm working on a dynamical-contented www server for a
> organization
> in my college.  But I don't know how to show the advantages of linux GUI -
> it's very powerful and efficient and looks far better, but they want only
> the ease of learning and the ability of being compatible with windows (you
> guys know I don't
> use KDE and GNOME and my GUI heavily depends on keyboards.)  Also the
> development tools, it's hard to convince people who never work with unix
> to use xemacs or emacs, unless they have lots of time and patience (and I
> can't tell how bad the IDEs that they use are, because they're new to
> programming and don't have enough experience.)

This is just a thought, but have you considered starting a LUG at your
college?
 
 
 

Suggestions for advocacy

Post by d2002x » Wed, 20 Nov 2002 20:17:33




>> Thanks, now I'm working on a dynamical-contented www server for a
>> organization in my college.  But I don't know how to show the advantages of
>> linux GUI - it's very powerful and efficient and looks far better, but they
>> want only the ease of learning and the ability of being compatible with
>> windows (you guys know I don't use KDE and GNOME and my GUI heavily depends
>> on keyboards.)  Also the development tools, it's hard to convince people who
>> never work with unix to use xemacs or emacs, unless they have lots of time
>> and patience (and I can't tell how bad the IDEs that they use are, because
>> they're new to programming and don't have enough experience.)

> This is just a thought, but have you considered starting a LUG at your
> college?

No, there are too few people who use linux. Until now I find nobody except for
me using linux.

--
d2002xx
retired COLA wintroll-feeder #1