NT Will Win, Good Guys Lose

NT Will Win, Good Guys Lose

Post by Max » Mon, 03 Nov 1997 04:00:00



: After working with NT for a while, I've decided that the name NT must
: have been coined considering its functionality:

: - caN'T
: - doesN'T
: - woN'T

Very true, but most unfortunately the unbelievably vast sums and steamroller
market momentum that M$ now has make it virtually impossible for it to fail
to take over all meaningful commercial and home computing. The antitrust
actions waited far too long; the consent decree of 1995 was never enforced
and M$ consolidated its hold.

In the Unix arena, even the analysts sympathetic to Unix see the
handwriting on the wall; and it has nothing to do with the current
state of the art where Unix is better. M$ has the money, many times
many times over, to eventually make its product equal and even
better. And it has all the sources of revenue to make it happen, while
the revenue for Unix is drying up. NT is mentioned and trumpeted many
thousands of times more often in the media and advertising than Unix,
and it is being purchased accordingly. And the rich just keep on
getting richer.

Unix will shrink as M$ improves, and improve it will, unfortunately.

In the legal arena, it doesn't much matter. Whichever way the decision goes,
M$ will have proceeded as it says it is going to by the time the decision
comes down years from now. M$ has absolutely vast revenues and assets to pay
for armies of the very best legal minds for sale. So at the end, even if it
loses, the others will no longer be viable in the market. Their heirs may
receive damages and their technology will be bought out by M$. M$ will have
to pay something substantial of course, but by then the market will have
wiped out all other viable players. M$ may be broken up into smaller M$
players, but they will not be the competitors that exist today, they will be
the divisions of M$ competing against each other.

At worst, all the young Turks at M$ will have their own baby M$ fiefdoms. M$
will be a regulated monopoly. But the wealth flow will still be in exactly
the same direction.

It won't make a damned bit of difference in the short term to anyone
outside M$ whatever happens.

How do I know? It is getting harder and harder to sell anything
outside the M$ solution. I hate the M$ solution, but it is no longer
about the best current solution, but MIS departments fear that
anything else is likely to be an orphan and unsupportable. Nothing
seems to convince them otherwise. As soon as NT can offer everything
that Unix can, even if somewhat less performance, NT will be the
choice. Only where it cannot perform at all can anything else be
deployed, in the meantime. For now. Because M$ fully intends to
change networking in such a way to exclude these systems though M$
only standards.

Outside of Unix, places that sell both Wintel (how I despise that name)
and Apple are selling almost *no Apple at all* anymore. Consumers
think there will no longer be software or hardware available
very shortly. M$ did not invest in Apple to save it, but to acquire
and merge its technology into M$.

The shakeout is here; those who M$ has almost overwhelmed have the illusory
hope of being saved by the US government. Unfortunately we are in the
position of the South Vietnamese government in the early seventies - they
could no longer defend themselves, and watched what advantage they once held
disappear as the U.S and North Viet Nam lawyers negotiated in Paris. While
the negotiations continued, the North continued to press its advantage
without letup.

That is what's happening. And like South Vietnam, we're going to have to
accept the unfortunate reality of M$ hegemony no matter how unscrupulously
achieved and live under that domineering influence. Maybe a few "boat
people" can make it to Silicon Valley.

Maybe not. SGI just announced they are going to transform themselves from
makers of Unix workstations into a Wintel clone assembler. That is
certainly capitulation.

NT is poised to get the whole market because that is what the market
now wants, even though it was achieved through what appears to most
observers to have been illegal means. Unfortunately, as everywhere,
possession is going to be 9/10 of the law.

I'll never forget how they did it, though, and like the dissidents
that protested against the Soviet regime, will wait for the time
when Microsoft, too, will pass.

 
 
 

NT Will Win, Good Guys Lose

Post by Mark Sandro » Tue, 04 Nov 1997 04:00:00



>Very true, but most unfortunately the unbelievably vast sums and steamroller
>market momentum that M$ now has make it virtually impossible for it to fail
>to take over all meaningful commercial and home computing. The antitrust
>actions waited far too long; the consent decree of 1995 was never enforced
>and M$ consolidated its hold.

Hmm. The buzz today is that Microsoft is sending out feelers to locate
alternative Intel OSes, in case Win98 falls victim to the DOJ. Possible
candidates include: Rhapsody and BeOS on Intel. Seems like MS is not as
convinced of their ultimate victory as you are. :)

Here's part of the report from Nov. 3rd MacOS Rumours...

"Almost a dozen of Rumors' contacts in the industry are reporting that
they've heard, directly or indirectly, that Microsoft is worried about
the limits of its technology, and the problems of Department of Justice
probes into Windows98, which will force virtually all Windows users to
use Microsoft Internet Explorer as their interface, something that the
DOJ will most likely try to stop in its tracks. Without Windows98,
Microsoft will be dead in the water...it does not have a new OS ready
to bring to customers for at least another three years after Win98 ships."

Quote:>Unix will shrink as M$ improves, and improve it will, unfortunately.

That tired old saw has been around for years now, and it's still not
happening. Unix is also growing, and that's not including Linux, nor
Rhapsody in '98. SGI is a niche vendor--so what if they sell NT too?

Also, as companies attempt to "standardize" on Windows NT, some are
running into terrible problems. Check out the Fortune 100 case study at

http://www.aberdeen.com/secure/onsite/case1/body.htm

The "Microsoft Solution" appears to be very flawed.

Mark Sandrock
--
(Not speaking for my employer.)
Wolfram Research, Inc.
Voice: 217-398-0700/x107


 
 
 

NT Will Win, Good Guys Lose

Post by acl.. » Sun, 09 Nov 1997 04:00:00


Quote:>...
>Unix will shrink as M$ improves, and improve it will, unfortunately.
>...
>NT is poised to get the whole market because that is what the market
>now wants, even though it was achieved through what appears to most
>observers to have been illegal means. Unfortunately, as everywhere,
>possession is going to be 9/10 of the law.
>...

God that was a depressing article. You should join a cult and make a
fine career from writing doomsday literature... :-/

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NT Will Win, Good Guys Lose

Post by Roy Stogn » Sun, 09 Nov 1997 04:00:00


Quote:>>...
>>NT is poised to get the whole market because that is what the market
>>now wants, even though it was achieved through what appears to most
>>observers to have been illegal means. Unfortunately, as everywhere,
>>possession is going to be 9/10 of the law.
>>...
>God that was a depressing article. You should join a cult and make a
>fine career from writing doomsday literature... :-/

Wasn't it, though?

Quote:>>...
>>Unix will shrink as M$ improves, and improve it will, unfortunately.
>>...

It's actually quite a race now: can Microsoft make it's operating systems
stable, flexible, and powerful before Unix vendors can make their
operating systems easy to use, flashy, and fool-proof?

If it were only that simple, I'd grant the victory to Unix hands down,
but Microsoft also has two other things going for it:

The "VHS" vs. "Beta" advantage -
the more new programs are written for Win32, the more
people are willing to put up with the operating systems to use them, the
more programmers are willing to program for Windows-only, etc. etc..

If Microsoft manages to set this in stone (after there are enough
Exchange users, will Microsoft switch over to a "new", oops-we're-
incompatible-with-old-SMTP-sorry-obsolete-Unix, mail protocol?), then
they win.

If programming toolkits manage to make porting software easy enough to
make many software companies go multi-platform (Any opinions on QT?  How
many important apps are OpenGL vs. Direct3D?  What about Java?), then
Microsoft cannot kill Unix in the long run.

The marketing advantage -
They did it to OS/2, they can do it to Unix.

Looking at a comp. magazine from around the time of Win95's release, I
was dismayed to see that, although there was NO mentioned advantage of
Win95 over OS/2, programmers were cautioned to stay with Win95 because
"all the users will have it," and users were cautioned to buy Win95
because "all the programs will be for it."  No technical or practical
reason necessary - heavy bandwagon advertising and circular reasoning
is apparantly enough to establish an operating system.

---
Roy Stogner

 
 
 

NT Will Win, Good Guys Lose

Post by Ram Samudral » Sun, 09 Nov 1997 04:00:00



>better. And it has all the sources of revenue to make it happen, while
>the revenue for Unix is drying up. NT is mentioned and trumpeted many
>thousands of times more often in the media and advertising than Unix,
>and it is being purchased accordingly.

This is patently false. Look at some of the surveys estiminating the
number of machines running different kinds of Unices, and NT, and
other OSes, on various platforms and systems, for the last 3-4 years
(there's a site on the web that does this for Internet servers---MIDS
I believe it's called, and there are other publications).  I
personally have followed one number closely, the number of estimated
Linux machines.  I know that the number of Linux machines matches or
exceeds the number of Windows/NT machines for every year since 1995
(in the sample).  Publications have been touting NT for years now, but
where has it gone?

The scary thing in those numbers is the number of Windows 95 machines
compared to MacOS.  But NT poses no threat, if the previous years are
any indication.

Quote:>seems to convince them otherwise. As soon as NT can offer everything
>that Unix can, even if somewhat less performance, NT will be the
>choice.

What about cost?  Linux is just another Unix. It's a way of doing
things which I think is the way of the future.

I just wiped out NT (which came pre-installed on our DEC 534 MHz
alpha---our fastest single processor machine) and put Linux in its
place, and I'll say that with NT, I felt like I was using a 486.  With
Linux on it, it simply flies.

--Ram


                    Waiting for the revolution. Nuclear vision, genocide.
                                  Computerise god, it's the new religion.
                  Program the brain, not the heart beat. ---Black Sabbath

 
 
 

NT Will Win, Good Guys Lose

Post by Ram Samudral » Sun, 09 Nov 1997 04:00:00



>If it were only that simple, I'd grant the victory to Unix hands down,
>but Microsoft also has two other things going for it:
>The "VHS" vs. "Beta" advantage -
>the more new programs are written for Win32, the more
>people are willing to put up with the operating systems to use them, the
>more programmers are willing to program for Windows-only, etc. etc..

I think though that Linux is more like VHS, in this analogy.

The funny thing about NT is that people made the same comments about
Unix when VMS was going strong (and NT isn't right now), but where is
VMS now?  And VMS was so much a better system than NT ever will be.

--Ram


     Your shadow, the white one, who you cannot accept and who will never
                                             forget you --- Rolf Jacobson

 
 
 

NT Will Win, Good Guys Lose

Post by Joseph Sloa » Mon, 10 Nov 1997 04:00:00



> I just wiped out NT (which came pre-installed on our DEC 534 MHz
> alpha---our fastest single processor machine) and put Linux in its
> place, and I'll say that with NT, I felt like I was using a 486.  With
> Linux on it, it simply flies.

Oh, that does my heart good.

I remember when we took delivery of some windows nt powered DEC Alphas
awhile back. They were basically a curiosity, and we played with them and
ran some benchmarks. Then we ran the same benchmark programs on an identical
DEC Alpha running Digital Unix, and as you would expect, it came out 3 times
faster than windows nt.

Due to basic usability issues, we ended up wiping windows nt of all of them
and installing Digital Unix. But out of that experience we gained a saying
which persists to this day:

"Nothing slows down a computer like windows nt!"

--
When people understand what Microsoft is up to, they're outraged.
                      -- TIM O'REILLY, President, O'Reilly & Associates

 
 
 

1. NT NT NT NT NT NT NT MT

Why is everyone comparing whatever operating system with NT?

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 t MR/2 t

2. tape drive for linux?

3. Redhat 8 Multiboot Boot with Win2k/Win 98 - losing Win

4. Rsh from Sun to NT

5. Hey Guys it's your good friend Bill!!

6. DVDs under Linux

7. Good job guys!

8. md5 and crypt relations???

9. Linux vs. NT on the desktop: The one thing NT is good for!

10. Guys,Guys BeOS For Linux Is Here !!

11. Please help me.. Good guys

12. thanks a lot guys (nt)

13. Reply to an NT/Linux Guy