LaTeX is so cool!

LaTeX is so cool!

Post by Terry Porte » Fri, 05 Apr 2002 08:58:35



Hi all:)

My Wife wanted a*style for her journalism unit which
automatically added to the right footer of each page (but not the last
page) , "-more-", and on the last page only, the same right footer
would contain the word "-last-".

I can guarantee that the other student stuck with the bloatasuraus
MS-Word would be doing the above in all their Journo assignments
*by hand*.

Under*it's a one liner :-

\rfoot{\ifthenelse{\value{page}=\pageref{LastPage}}{-ends-}{-more-}}

Cryptic ?
Sure if you don't know Latex, but its not so difficult. Have a look at
the MS Word source some time if you think this is hard!

I added the above line to the preamble for this type of document. So
now all she has to do is worry about content and not *typesetting*.

Yes Erik Lyingbusch, I know*is available for Windows, but few
are aware of it as*won't fill MS's coffers, it will only save the
Windows users a lot of heart attacks.

--
              Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/LinuX, Sorcerer kernel 2.4.17  
Free Micro burner: http://www.veryComputer.com/~tp/burn.html          
 ** Linux Registration Number: 103931,  http://www.veryComputer.com/ **

 
 
 

LaTeX is so cool!

Post by Charmika Janetoofl » Fri, 05 Apr 2002 19:28:30



> I can guarantee that the other student stuck with the bloatasuraus
> MS-Word would be doing the above in all their Journo assignments
> *by hand*.

> Under*it's a one liner :-

> \rfoot{\ifthenelse{\value{page}=\pageref{LastPage}}{-ends-}{-more-}}

Great!

 
 
 

LaTeX is so cool!

Post by Lee Sau Da » Sat, 06 Apr 2002 09:59:31


    >> Under*it's a one liner :-
    >>
    >> \rfoot{\ifthenelse{\value{page}=\pageref{LastPage}}{-ends-}{-more-}}

    Charmika> Great!

But it doesn't work.  My*(tetex-1.07) complains that "\rfoot" is
undefined.

Moreover, I'm  curious why the  above would work without  defining the
label "LastPage" with any code.

Terry, what  else are in  your preamble?  What \documentclass  are you
using?

(Anyway, I  can do what was  described.  Years ago, a  friend asked me
how to do "Page 3/5" instead of  a plain "Page 3", and I wrote a short
.sty   file  for   him.   Doing   the  conditional   "---ends---"  and
"---more---" is an even simpler task.)

--


Home page: http://www.veryComputer.com/~danlee

 
 
 

LaTeX is so cool!

Post by Terry Porte » Sun, 07 Apr 2002 05:58:23


Lee Sau Dan threw some tea leaves on the floor


>     >> Under*it's a one liner :-

>     >> \rfoot{\ifthenelse{\value{page}=\pageref{LastPage}}{-ends-}{-more-}}

>    Charmika> Great!

> But it doesn't work.  My*(tetex-1.07) complains that "\rfoot" is
> undefined.

> Moreover, I'm  curious why the  above would work without  defining the
> label "LastPage" with any code.

> Terry, what  else are in  your preamble?  What \documentclass  are you
> using?

> (Anyway, I  can do what was  described.  Years ago, a  friend asked me
> how to do "Page 3/5" instead of  a plain "Page 3", and I wrote a short
> .sty   file  for   him.   Doing   the  conditional   "---ends---"  and
> "---more---" is an even simpler task.)

Cool :)

Apologies for not including the preamble, but I didnt know if anyone
would want it.

Here is the complete template :-
                                oOo

\documentclass[12pt,a4paper]{article}
\renewcommand{\thefootnote}{\fnsymbol{footnote}}
\renewcommand{\baselinestretch}{2} % 1.5 spaced
\usepackage{geometry}
\geometry{verbose,a4paper,tmargin=3cm,bmargin=4cm,lmargin=5cm,rmargin=3cm}
\usepackage{fancyhdr}

% here is the "lastpage" style MR Lee.
\usepackage{lastpage}

\usepackage{ifthen}
\pagestyle{fancy}
\setlength{\parindent}{0pt}     % Sets no indentation for paragraphs
\setlength{\parskip}{3ex plus 0.5ex minus 0.2ex} % Sets
% the space between paragraphs
\renewcommand{\headrulewidth}{0.0pt} %get rid of top horiz line

\lhead{your name}       % Sets the left header as " your name"
\rhead{protest \large\thepage}
\cfoot{}

% This  compares current page to see if its the lastpage, and if it
% is it places "-ends" in the right footer, else it places
% "-more-"
\rfoot{\ifthenelse{\value{page}=\pageref{LastPage}}{-ends-}{-more-}}

\begin{document}

your document here :)

\end{document}
--
              Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/LinuX, Sorcerer kernel 2.4.17  
Free Micro burner: http://www.veryComputer.com/~tp/burn.html          
 ** Linux Registration Number: 103931,  http://www.veryComputer.com/ **

 
 
 

LaTeX is so cool!

Post by steve » Sun, 07 Apr 2002 09:44:28


Although*produces 'better' looking documents, it is not as productive
nor as easy to use as Word for many things.

With WORD, I can easily cut/paste images into my document from my desktop
or any other app, easily resize and fit things anywhere I want them to be,
easily make tables, easily inser URL links into the document, etc...
and with one click of the button, generate an HTML web page.

This makes up for the better looking*printed documents.

These days, as more publications target the 'web', there is less importance
on the printed version of the document. I use WORD to make reports and
web pages, with lots of diagrams and images and tables in them, WORD makes
this task much easier and simpler than Latex. (and I have used*for
years and written many long documents with it).

WORD= easy, fast, does the job for most common tasks.
Latex= excellent control of output, best printed output, but for many
tasks not worth the effort and extra time.

I would still*for the most important documents, final important reports
that I need to impress someone with (PhD, masters thesis, papers, etc..) but
for day-to-day, you average work report, using word saves times.

If someone can come up with a very easy to use interface to latex, where
I can cut/paste stuff right into it, move diagrams around, resize, etc...
as I can do with WORD and produces*as output, I would use it, but
the few GUI interface apps to*I have tried do not do a good job of
these things yet.

 
 
 

LaTeX is so cool!

Post by Mike » Sun, 07 Apr 2002 13:04:43




Quote:> With WORD, I can easily cut/paste images into my document from my
> desktop or any other app, easily resize and fit things anywhere I want
> them to be, easily make tables, easily inser URL links into the
> document, etc...  and with one click of the button, generate an HTML
> web page.

I disagree.  What Word produces with the "Save as HTML" feature does
loosely resemble HTML, but if I wrote something like that, I certainly
would not call it "HTML", any more than what a drunkard throws up on
the sidewalk would be called "pizza".
--
Mike.
 
 
 

LaTeX is so cool!

Post by Edward Roste » Sun, 07 Apr 2002 15:20:33



> Although*produces 'better' looking documents, it is not as productive
> nor as easy to use as Word for many things.

Depends on many things.

Quote:> With WORD, I can easily cut/paste images into my document from my desktop
> or any other app, easily resize and fit things anywhere I want them to
> be,

?? Have they finally got rid of the infamous jumping picture problem?

Also, what's so hard about \resizebox{\includegraphics{...

Quote:> easily make tables, easily inser URL links into the document, etc...

\begin{tabular}

no problem. The best thing is how well that works.

Quote:> and with one click of the button, generate an HTML web page.

Download latex2html. Of course it doesn't do a perfect job since the
capabilities of DVI are rather different from HTML. But I expect word
can't do a great job on complex things like equations either, since
proper HTML can't render them. Also, word is famous for for producing
some of the worst HTML ever seen o this planet.

Quote:> This makes up for the better looking*printed documents.

Not really. Most of what you've gives are only advantages if you prefer a
mouse dirven interface and are happy to settly for seriously poor quality.

Quote:> These days, as more publications target the 'web', there is less importance
> on the printed version of the document.

It seems a very common thing for peoplee to download and print documents
from the web. Why are there so many PDF files out there (which*can
produce trivially *with* hyperlinks)?

Quote:> I use WORD to make reports and
> web pages,

I feel sorry for anyone who has to view these.

Quote:> with lots of diagrams and images and tables in them, WORD makes
> this task much easier and simpler than Latex.

Don't you have to update the references by hand if you insert a new
diagram?

Quote:> (and I have used*for
> years and written many long documents with it).

> WORD= easy, fast, does the job for most common tasks.
> Latex= excellent control of output, best printed output, but for many
> tasks not worth the effort and extra time.

If you already know*very well, you also get Latex=easier, faster
thrown in there as well.

Quote:> I would still*for the most important documents, final important reports
> that I need to impress someone with (PhD, masters thesis, papers, etc..) but
> for day-to-day, you average work report, using word saves times.

Only if you don't already know LaTeX. If you already know*well,
word is a pain for many things that you take for granted otherwise.

-Ed

--

/d{def}def/f{/Times findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5/m
{moveto}d -1 r 230 350 m 0 1 179{1 index show 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}
for /s 15 d f pop 240 420 m 0 1 3 { 4 2 1 r sub -1 r show } for showpage

 
 
 

LaTeX is so cool!

Post by Edward Roste » Sun, 07 Apr 2002 15:20:33



> Although*produces 'better' looking documents, it is not as productive
> nor as easy to use as Word for many things.

Depends on many things.

Quote:> With WORD, I can easily cut/paste images into my document from my desktop
> or any other app, easily resize and fit things anywhere I want them to
> be,

?? Have they finally got rid of the infamous jumping picture problem?

Also, what's so hard about \resizebox{\includegraphics{...

Quote:> easily make tables, easily inser URL links into the document, etc...

\begin{tabular}

no problem. The best thing is how well that works.

Quote:> and with one click of the button, generate an HTML web page.

Download latex2html. Of course it doesn't do a perfect job since the
capabilities of DVI are rather different from HTML. But I expect word
can't do a great job on complex things like equations either, since
proper HTML can't render them. Also, word is famous for for producing
some of the worst HTML ever seen o this planet.

Quote:> This makes up for the better looking*printed documents.

Not really. Most of what you've gives are only advantages if you prefer a
mouse dirven interface and are happy to settly for seriously poor quality.

Quote:> These days, as more publications target the 'web', there is less importance
> on the printed version of the document.

It seems a very common thing for peoplee to download and print documents
from the web. Why are there so many PDF files out there (which*can
produce trivially *with* hyperlinks)?

Quote:> I use WORD to make reports and
> web pages,

I feel sorry for anyone who has to view these.

Quote:> with lots of diagrams and images and tables in them, WORD makes
> this task much easier and simpler than Latex.

Don't you have to update the references by hand if you insert a new
diagram?

Quote:> (and I have used*for
> years and written many long documents with it).

> WORD= easy, fast, does the job for most common tasks.
> Latex= excellent control of output, best printed output, but for many
> tasks not worth the effort and extra time.

If you already know*very well, you also get Latex=easier, faster
thrown in there as well.

Quote:> I would still*for the most important documents, final important reports
> that I need to impress someone with (PhD, masters thesis, papers, etc..) but
> for day-to-day, you average work report, using word saves times.

Only if you don't already know LaTeX. If you already know*well,
word is a pain for many things that you take for granted otherwise.

-Ed

--

/d{def}def/f{/Times findfont s scalefont setfont}d/s{10}d/r{roll}d f 5/m
{moveto}d -1 r 230 350 m 0 1 179{1 index show 88 rotate 4 mul 0 rmoveto}
for /s 15 d f pop 240 420 m 0 1 3 { 4 2 1 r sub -1 r show } for showpage

 
 
 

LaTeX is so cool!

Post by Linonu » Sun, 07 Apr 2002 18:11:32


After takin' a swig o' grog, steve_H belched out this bit o' wisdom:

Quote:> If someone can come up with a very easy to use interface to latex, where
> I can cut/paste stuff right into it, move diagrams around, resize, etc...
> as I can do with WORD and produces*as output, I would use it, but
> the few GUI interface apps to*I have tried do not do a good job of
> these things yet.

Take a look at LyX.  It may help.

There are some serious problems with Word:

        o Handles large documents poorly
        o Changes formats from version to version
        o Imported pictures are often impossible to edit (try
          clicking on an embedded Visio 2000 document) and
          diagrams often get messed up by the embedding.
        o Styles sometimes behave inconsistently, making it impossible
          to achieve the effect you want
        o Word is often so helpful that it undoes what you're trying
          to achieve as you do it.

Word is a nice tool for writing memos and documents of modest
size.  For the big stuff, it sucks.

For the little stuff, a Linux word processor (e.g. KWord)
will likely handle your compatibility needs.

Chris

--
Most people can't understand how others can blow their noses differently
than they do.
                -- Turgenev

 
 
 

LaTeX is so cool!

Post by Terry Porte » Sun, 07 Apr 2002 16:01:12


steve_H threw some tea leaves on the floor and this is what they

Quote:> Although*produces 'better' looking documents, it is not
> as productive nor as easy to use as Word for many things.

> With WORD, I can easily cut/paste images into my document from
> my desktop or any other app, easily resize and fit things
> anywhere I want them to be, easily make tables, easily inser
> URL links into the document, etc... and with one click of the
> button, generate an HTML web page.

All very well *while* Word is doing what its meant to, but when
odd behaviour happens, watch out.

One of the students at my Wifes class was very interested in
what she used to do her journalism assignment as Win98 was
intermittently refusing to print page numbers, I don't know if it
was Word she was using, but there is a good chance it was.

Quote:

> This makes up for the better looking*printed documents.

> These days, as more publications target the 'web', there is
> less importance on the printed version of the document.

The printed page is *far* from dead.

Quote:> I use WORD to make reports and web pages, with lots of diagrams
> and images and tables in them, WORD makes this task much easier
> and simpler than Latex. (and I have used*for years and
> written many long documents with it).

I've just d/l "Grokking the Gimp" its 30 megs of*turned
into HTML, and totally professional. Have you made any 30Mb html
docs with Word ?

Quote:

> WORD= easy, fast, does the job for most common tasks.  Latex=
> excellent control of output, best printed output, but for many
> tasks not worth the effort and extra time.

I disagree, I think Word isn't worth the effort.

Quote:

> I would still*for the most important documents, final
> important reports that I need to impress someone with (PhD,
> masters thesis, papers, etc..) but for day-to-day, you average
> work report, using word saves times.

How ?

Quote:

> If someone can come up with a very easy to use interface to
> latex, where I can cut/paste stuff right into it, move diagrams
> around, resize, etc... as I can do with WORD

But**isn't* Word, it will never be like Word in its
operation.

Quote:> and produces*as output, I would use it, but the few GUI
> interface apps to*I have tried do not do a good job of
> these things yet.

I use TkEdit for*docs myself, but I havent done any picture
embedding at all as yet.

However "Grokking the Gimp" has done 30 megabytes worth of it,
and the author seemed to like it.

--
              Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/LinuX, Sorcerer kernel 2.4.17  
Free Micro burner: http://www.veryComputer.com/~tp/burn.html          
 ** Linux Registration Number: 103931,  http://www.veryComputer.com/ **

 
 
 

LaTeX is so cool!

Post by Charmika Janetoofl » Sun, 07 Apr 2002 23:03:41



> There are some serious problems with Word:

>    o Handles large documents poorly
>    o Changes formats from version to version
>    o Imported pictures are often impossible to edit (try
>      clicking on an embedded Visio 2000 document) and
>      diagrams often get messed up by the embedding.
>    o Styles sometimes behave inconsistently, making it impossible
>      to achieve the effect you want
>    o Word is often so helpful that it undoes what you're trying
>      to achieve as you do it.

What about:

     o  poor compatibility between MSWord versions
     o  feature bloat
     o  no ability to plug/unplug MSword features
     o  proprietary, secret file format

There are old documents in TeX/LaTeX which are still
readable/usable today.  They will be in 100 years as well, when
we will be wired up with VLF detectors in our shoes to pick up
digital*documents which we will read on flexible displays
tattooed on the backs of our webbed hands.

Charmika

 
 
 

LaTeX is so cool!

Post by steve » Sun, 07 Apr 2002 23:16:31



> I disagree.  What Word produces with the "Save as HTML" feature does
> loosely resemble HTML, but if I wrote something like that, I certainly
> would not call it "HTML", any more than what a drunkard throws up on
> the sidewalk would be called "pizza".

No, use 'save as web page'. I think you are using an old WORD version, I use
office 2000, and 'save as web page' is perfect.

I am not saying WORD produces better looking printed documents than latex,
I am saying that WORD is good enough for the typical needs of daily workers,
and does save time since it is easier to use for most people and it meets
the needs for most common daily tasks.

 
 
 

LaTeX is so cool!

Post by Peter K?hlman » Sun, 07 Apr 2002 23:52:55




>> I disagree.  What Word produces with the "Save as HTML" feature does
>> loosely resemble HTML, but if I wrote something like that, I certainly
>> would not call it "HTML", any more than what a drunkard throws up on
>> the sidewalk would be called "pizza".

> No, use 'save as web page'. I think you are using an old WORD version, I
> use office 2000, and 'save as web page' is perfect.

> I am not saying WORD produces better looking printed documents than latex,
> I am saying that WORD is good enough for the typical needs of daily
> workers, and does save time since it is easier to use for most people and
> it meets the needs for most common daily tasks.

No, it is not, and it does not.

Peter
--
The Day Microsoft makes something that does not suck is probably
the day they start making vacuum cleaners.

 
 
 

LaTeX is so cool!

Post by steve » Mon, 08 Apr 2002 02:50:06



> After takin' a swig o' grog, steve_H belched out this bit o' wisdom:

 > Take a look at LyX.  It may help.

I tried Lyx. But last time I tried it, I could not drag and drop images
from the desktop right into it. I want to be able to cut/past stuff right
into the document.

Quote:> There are some serious problems with Word:

>    o Handles large documents poorly

Correct. But 95% of your average daily workers memos and reports are not
large. 10-50 pages on average.

Quote:>    o Changes formats from version to version

correct. but companies upgrade to new word versions as they come up.

Quote:>    o Imported pictures are often impossible to edit (try
>      clicking on an embedded Visio 2000 document) and
>      diagrams often get messed up by the embedding.

You edit visio drawings in visio, not word. when done them embed it in
word. to resize, point the mouse to the edge of the drawing in word and
pull or push. What is so hard about this?

Quote:>    o Styles sometimes behave inconsistently, making it impossible
>      to achieve the effect you want

true. styles suck in word, but for the most part if you stay with the basic
style, it is 'ok'.

Quote:> Word is a nice tool for writing memos and documents of modest
> size.  For the big stuff, it sucks.

well, that is what I am saying. But again, most of the common taks at
work can be handled ok by word. no one is writing a thesis each day at work,
and no one is saying to use word to write books with it.

Quote:> For the little stuff, a Linux word processor (e.g. KWord)
> will likely handle your compatibility needs.

if I send a KEword document to my boss, can she open it at her windows PC and
read it and edit it and send it back to me?
 
 
 

LaTeX is so cool!

Post by Mike » Mon, 08 Apr 2002 09:55:34





>> I disagree.  What Word produces with the "Save as HTML" feature does
>> loosely resemble HTML, but if I wrote something like that, I
>> certainly would not call it "HTML", any more than what a drunkard
>> throws up on the sidewalk would be called "pizza".
> No, use 'save as web page'. I think you are using an old WORD version,
> I use office 2000, and 'save as web page' is perfect.

I was referring to the quality of the HTML it produces.  It is utterly
shite.  My friend used that to save his resume, and it produced a 120k
file.  Admittedly, this is an improvement over the original 300kb doc,
but it's filled with *so* much garbage... it's just unbelievable.

Here's a sample:
<p><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-AU
 style='font-family: Arial;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"'>
 E-</span></b><st1:stockticker><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'>
 <span lang=EN-AU style='font-family:Arial; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times
 New Roman"'>MAIL</span></b></st1:stockticker><b
 style='mso-bidi-font-weight:normal'><span lang=EN-AU>:</span></b><span
 lang=EN-AU><span style='mso-tab-count:2'><A0><A0><A0><A0><A0><A0><A0>
 <A0><A0><A0><A0><A0><A0><A0><A0><A0><A0><A0><A0><A0> </span><a

 </span></p>

That "HTML" produces the text E-MAIL, some space, and a hyperlink to
send an email.  It doesn't even use an actual HTML table -- the other
text in the same section does not line up properly.

Rendering it as text using links results in nearly 12kb.  It doesn't
lose any information; another kilobyte or two of HTML would produce
the same exact same -- or even, better -- document.
--
Mike.

 
 
 

1. Latex versus Word. Does MS use Latex?

I am in this debate with this Windows guy who maintains
that Latex is virtually useless, too difficult to use
and results in ugly books.

Now I have looked into
    MS-DOS programmer's reference (up to version 6.0)
that I have, and as far as I can tell it looks like
latex with the standards font and almost nothing changed
from standard settings like :

 section up front with Roman numerals
 content in the front, not in the back
 the way tables are done

It looks remarkably like the Suse 7.0 manual that I have,
except for the tables.

So:
Has anybody pertinent information to what extent the
Open Source package TeX was and is being used at Microsoft?

--
--
Albert van der Horst,Oranjestr 8,3511 RA UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Q.: Where is Bin? A.: With his ma. Q.: That makes the Saudi's
terrorists, then?  A.: No, George already owns their oil.

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