What is good enough for the Enterprise?

What is good enough for the Enterprise?

Post by mlw » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



I posted a few days back, about how I am skeptical of the term
"Enterprise Computing" aside from the obvious Trekker appeal, it means
absolutely nothing. (Not on NT groups, if you wish to find it, it is on
comp.os.linux.advocacy)

I asked a friend at Lotus what "Enterprise Computing" means, the
response was something along the lines of, to Lotus, that's more than
200 users. 200 Users? That is a lot. What percentage of "enterprises"
have more than 100? Or 50 for that matter. Who in their right mind would
set up a PC based system to service 200 users?

If there is a single PC based system, that's any OS and hardware folks,
that can serve, in excess of, 200 users simultaneously (I don't mean
sporadically, I mean all users active at once) with reasonable
performance, I have yet to see it.

That's a big database, that's a big file server, that's a big anything.

No, a single PC, no matter how it is configured, can't handle an
enterprise. I don't care how many processors you have in a box, it is
way too much overhead for one PC based system to handle.

The solution is, of course, multiple PC based systems. And of course,
that is how PCs are being used in the "Enterprise."

Regardless of your preference, UNIX, NT, Linux, FreeBSD, etc. Isn't the
real challenge of "Enterprise" computing how tightly systems can work
together. Isn't "Enterprise" computing the ability to cluster PCs?

--
Mohawk Software
Windows 95, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Take the Mohawk Software Computer Survey at: www.mohawksoft.com

 
 
 

What is good enough for the Enterprise?

Post by Stephen Edward » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


: If there is a single PC based system, that's any OS and hardware folks,
: that can serve, in excess of, 200 users simultaneously (I don't mean
: sporadically, I mean all users active at once) with reasonable
: performance, I have yet to see it.

: That's a big database, that's a big file server, that's a big anything.

ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/  *grin*  Now, don't think I am trying to say "PCs are
the best".  However, you have to admit, what they're doing with it is
pretty impressive.

: Regardless of your preference, UNIX, NT, Linux, FreeBSD, etc. Isn't the
: real challenge of "Enterprise" computing how tightly systems can work
: together. Isn't "Enterprise" computing the ability to cluster PCs?

Well, all "Enterprise Computing" means is literally, "to make money by
using computers".  That can vary from business to business.

[] "No footnote for you!" -- Footnote Nazi
--
.-----.
|[_] :| Stephen S. Edwards II | http://www.primenet.com/~rakmount
| =  :| "But something's wrong.  It takes me a moment to pin it down;
|     |  the monitor's different.  Instead of the nice 17' Trinitron,
|_..._|  there's a 15' raster gun in a dirty plastic case." -- Ben in ASR

 
 
 

What is good enough for the Enterprise?

Post by Anthony O » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


On 8 May 1999 15:53:31 GMT, Stephen Edwards



>: If there is a single PC based system, that's any OS and hardware folks,
>: that can serve, in excess of, 200 users simultaneously (I don't mean
>: sporadically, I mean all users active at once) with reasonable
>: performance, I have yet to see it.

>: That's a big database, that's a big file server, that's a big anything.

>ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/  *grin*  Now, don't think I am trying to say "PCs are
>the best".  However, you have to admit, what they're doing with it is
>pretty impressive.

Indeed, but they have a restricted network pipe, which cuts
down the max amount of traffic they can handle. Coping with
3200 users on a 100baseT network with a PC would be *very*
impressive. ;-)

Quote:>: Regardless of your preference, UNIX, NT, Linux, FreeBSD, etc. Isn't the
>: real challenge of "Enterprise" computing how tightly systems can work
>: together. Isn't "Enterprise" computing the ability to cluster PCs?

>Well, all "Enterprise Computing" means is literally, "to make money by
>using computers".  That can vary from business to business.

Enterprise Pens. Making money by using Pens.

Make your own Enterprise slogan up and put it here...

Quote:>[] "No footnote for you!" -- Footnote Nazi

Regards

Anthony
--
-----------------------------------------
| And when our worlds                   |
| They fall apart                       |
| When the walls come tumbling in       |
| Though we may deserve it              |
| It will be worth it  - Depeche Mode   |
-----------------------------------------

 
 
 

What is good enough for the Enterprise?

Post by Chris Costel » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/  *grin*  Now, don't think I am trying to say "PCs are
> the best".  However, you have to admit, what they're doing with it is
> pretty impressive.

   Although I believe David Greenman put a _huge_ amount of code
to make it use all the OS (FreeBSD) can give it, so it can
service the 5000 users it gets.

--
Chris Costello
My computer NEVER cras

 
 
 

What is good enough for the Enterprise?

Post by Chris Costel » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> down the max amount of traffic they can handle. Coping with
> 3200 users on a 100baseT network with a PC would be *very*
> impressive. ;-)

   Xeon 500, 4 GB RAM.  Not quite your average PC.  Still x86,
though, if that's what you mean.

   Oh, and it handles 5000 users.

--
Chris Costello
Trojan:  Storage device for replicating codes...

 
 
 

What is good enough for the Enterprise?

Post by Tim Smi » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



>>ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/  *grin*  Now, don't think I am trying to say "PCs are
>>the best".  However, you have to admit, what they're doing with it is
>>pretty impressive.

>Indeed, but they have a restricted network pipe, which cuts
>down the max amount of traffic they can handle. Coping with
>3200 users on a 100baseT network with a PC would be *very*
>impressive. ;-)

They've managed almost 1000 gigs in one day on their "restricted network
pipe".  1000 gigs in 24 hours is 99 million bits/second.  I suspect they
would have no trouble going that extra 1% to handle a 100baseT. :-)

--Tim Smith

 
 
 

What is good enough for the Enterprise?

Post by David Steube » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


-> Regardless of your preference, UNIX, NT, Linux, FreeBSD, etc. Isn't the
-> real challenge of "Enterprise" computing how tightly systems can work
-> together. Isn't "Enterprise" computing the ability to cluster PCs?

Certainly.  Also, the ability to administer all those PCs is
important.  With a unix environment, the sysop can run a script that
performs tasks on all the machines on the network.  Try that with any
flavor of Windows.

Just tell the users not to turn the PCs off at night! :-)

--
David Steuber   |   s/trashcan/david/ if you wish to reply by mail

In 1915 pancake make-up was invented but most people still preferred
syrup.

 
 
 

What is good enough for the Enterprise?

Post by trot » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


Hell I constantly run perl scripts against all pc's in my nt domains!
tr


Quote:

> Certainly.  Also, the ability to administer all those PCs is
> important.  With a unix environment, the sysop can run a script that
> performs tasks on all the machines on the network.  Try that with any
> flavor of Windows.

.
 
 
 

What is good enough for the Enterprise?

Post by Jeffrey Le » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00




> -> Regardless of your preference, UNIX, NT, Linux, FreeBSD, etc. Isn't the
> -> real challenge of "Enterprise" computing how tightly systems can work
> -> together. Isn't "Enterprise" computing the ability to cluster PCs?

> Certainly.  Also, the ability to administer all those PCs is
> important.  With a unix environment, the sysop can run a script that
> performs tasks on all the machines on the network.  Try that with any
> flavor of Windows.

No problem! Where did you get the idea you can't run scripts in NT??
 
 
 

What is good enough for the Enterprise?

Post by mlw » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00






> > -> Regardless of your preference, UNIX, NT, Linux, FreeBSD, etc. Isn't the
> > -> real challenge of "Enterprise" computing how tightly systems can work
> > -> together. Isn't "Enterprise" computing the ability to cluster PCs?

> > Certainly.  Also, the ability to administer all those PCs is
> > important.  With a unix environment, the sysop can run a script that
> > performs tasks on all the machines on the network.  Try that with any
> > flavor of Windows.

> No problem! Where did you get the idea you can't run scripts in NT??

OK, here it is.

From a remote machine, restart Lotus Notes on Windows NT Server.
From a remote machine, start a new server application.
From a remote machine install a new application.
On a remote NT server, run an application and display its output on your
screen.

I am shocked and amazed every day Windows NT gets a convert. It has only
one viable purpose in life, being a file server for Windows machines.

Unix does everything else better, and with Samba, it is catching up to
NT.

--
Mohawk Software
Windows 95, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Take the Mohawk Software Computer Survey at: www.mohawksoft.com

 
 
 

What is good enough for the Enterprise?

Post by David Steube » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00


-> Hell I constantly run perl scripts against all pc's in my nt domains!
-> tr

Do you start the scripts from a single machine with one command?  Or
do you just run the same script on each machine individualy?

--
David Steuber   |   s/trashcan/david/ if you wish to reply by mail

Have you noticed the way people's intelligence capabilities decline
sharply the minute they start waving guns around?
                -- Dr. Who

 
 
 

What is good enough for the Enterprise?

Post by trot » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



Quote:> OK, here it is.

> From a remote machine, restart Lotus Notes on Windows NT Server.
> From a remote machine, start a new server application.
> From a remote machine install a new application.
> On a remote NT server, run an application and display its output on your
> screen.

are these things that you think can't be done on nt?
 
 
 

What is good enough for the Enterprise?

Post by Chris Costel » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00





> > OK, here it is.

> > From a remote machine, restart Lotus Notes on Windows NT Server.
> > From a remote machine, start a new server application.
> > From a remote machine install a new application.
> > On a remote NT server, run an application and display its output on your
> > screen.

> are these things that you think can't be done on nt?

   They can be, but not very easily.  Non-standard tools make it
less difficult.

--
Chris Costello
A hacker does for love what others would not do for money.  - Laura Creighton

 
 
 

What is good enough for the Enterprise?

Post by Stephen Edward » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



: > OK, here it is.
: >
: > From a remote machine, restart Lotus Notes on Windows NT Server.
: > From a remote machine, start a new server application.
: > From a remote machine install a new application.
: > On a remote NT server, run an application and display its output on your
: > screen.

: are these things that you think can't be done on nt?

Well, in all fairness, WindowsNT's GDI is not exportable across a network
yet, is it?

[] "No footnote for you!" -- Footnote Nazi
--
.-----.
|[_] :| Stephen S. Edwards II | http://www.primenet.com/~rakmount
| =  :| "But something's wrong.  It takes me a moment to pin it down;
|     |  the monitor's different.  Instead of the nice 17' Trinitron,
|_..._|  there's a 15' raster gun in a dirty plastic case." -- Ben in ASR

 
 
 

What is good enough for the Enterprise?

Post by trot » Sun, 31 Dec 1899 09:00:00



> > > From a remote machine, restart Lotus Notes on Windows NT Server.

           use the server manager (note the server manager is capable of
running remotely)
Quote:> > > From a remote machine, start a new server application.

           use the server manager
Quote:> > > From a remote machine install a new application.

           use perl to edit remote registry and copy bin
                or
            use netmeeting or vnc ... both are free
                (note both vnc or netmeeting serve to remotely export a
display)
Quote:> > > On a remote NT server, run an application and display its output on
your
> > > screen.

           use netmeeting or vnc ... both are free

Quote:

> > are these things that you think can't be done on nt?

>    They can be, but not very easily.  Non-standard tools make it
> less difficult.

> --
> Chris Costello
> A hacker does for love what others would not do for money.  - Laura

Creighton
 
 
 

1. Good Enough to Sleep With but not Good Enough to Marry?

I've touched on this subject a couple of times before, but I just wanted
to drive the point home.

There are many commercial companies out there that are benefitting off of
the use of Open Source Software with their products, especially Linux in
embedded devices.

Linux powers cell phones, PDA's, robots, routers, communications devices,
Pocket PC's, and a whole slew of other specialized devices.

The thing is, where these companies that use embedded Linux are
benefitting and profiting off of using Linux in their products, they
provide little or no support for users of Linux and their products.

I have personally experienced this with three seperate products I own that
are linux powered.

What is this about?  Are these companies hypocrites?  It's ok to reap the
all the benefits of using Linux to drive our products but they are not
willing to make a committment to the community by providing support for
Linux users with their products?

I know that there is of course the financial aspect of it, but it still
seems to be negligent and hypocritical on the part of these companies.

That's my take on it anyway.

--
rapskat  -  1:25am  up 4 days, 11:09,  4 users,  load average: 0.07, 0.04, 0.01
drop the hot to mail me

Shit Happens. -- Forrest Gump (?)

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