Very Computer

by **Rex Ballar** » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:41:15

In article
MSN.com won't play nice with others
http://netscape.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5098787,00.html

MSN refuses to allow any browser other than Internet Explorer to
access it's web site.

This is one of the most flagrant violations of the Antitrust rulings
yet. They are very clearly demonstrating that Microsoft can't be
trusted to obey any court ruling. After a unanimous ruling told
Microsoft
that they didn't have the right to exclude competitors from the
market,
Microsoft is now trying to pull a stunt like THIS!

I wonder how the settlement talks are going :-)

--
Rex Ballard
IT Architect
Leader in commercial use of the Internet and Open Source.
http://www.open4success.com

rballard.vcf
< 1K Download

by **Charlie Ebe** » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:54:39

On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:41:15 -0400,

>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>--------------FA3F98B968C1043B50EF610D
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>In article
>MSN.com won't play nice with others
>http://netscape.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5098787,00.html

>MSN refuses to allow any browser other than Internet Explorer to
>access it's web site.

>This is one of the most flagrant violations of the Antitrust rulings
>yet. They are very clearly demonstrating that Microsoft can't be
>trusted to obey any court ruling. After a unanimous ruling told
>Microsoft
>that they didn't have the right to exclude competitors from the
>market,
>Microsoft is now trying to pull a stunt like THIS!

>I wonder how the settlement talks are going :-)

>--
>Rex Ballard
>IT Architect
>Leader in commercial use of the Internet and Open Source.
>http://www.open4success.com

There will be no actions taken against Microsoft Corporation
as the Bush Administration is corrupt.

They butted in and essentially pardoned Microsoft for all
their past actions and now Microsoft is free to play again.

Everybody knows that George Bush is 20 times smarter than
19 full states worth of prosecution teams seeking justice.

So for the next 4 years, you better just get used to being
abused as you will get no relief nor justice from this
administration.

And I encourage all people of intelligence to vote straight
Democrat and get some justice applied to Microsoft Corporation.

Microsofts actions today have convinced me they are criminals
and so is the Bush Administration of collusion with Microsoft
Corporation in these matters.

Charlie

by **Erik Funkenbusc** » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:31:08

This isn't an anti-trust issue at all.

If I own a store, It is perfectly within my right to dictate who I will
allow into my store and who I will serve, so long as I don't discriminate
against protected civil rights (based on race, creed, gender or *
preference). The same applies to web sites. For instance, I can prevent
people from certain countries, or even people who drive fords (assuming i
could figure out a way to determine this fact) from using my site.

If MS wants to make the mistake of shutting out a large group of people from
MSN, that's their decision to make, and legally so. Lots of people get shut
out of sites using Lynx and ActiveX and Java and many other ways every day.

MSN is just another portal site. There is nothing there that is unique or
vital.

Quote:> In article
> MSN.com won't play nice with others
> http://www.veryComputer.com/,4586,5098787,00.html

> MSN refuses to allow any browser other than Internet Explorer to
> access it's web site.

> This is one of the most flagrant violations of the Antitrust rulings
> yet. They are very clearly demonstrating that Microsoft can't be
> trusted to obey any court ruling. After a unanimous ruling told
> Microsoft
> that they didn't have the right to exclude competitors from the
> market,
> Microsoft is now trying to pull a stunt like THIS!

> I wonder how the settlement talks are going :-)

> --
> Rex Ballard
> IT Architect
> Leader in commercial use of the Internet and Open Source.
> http://www.veryComputer.com/

by **Sundial Service** » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:46:12

It can't help them. Now that the Supreme Court has declined to hear
their case, Judge Jackson's findings of fact are irrefutable law. His
penalties may have been too extreme and were set aside (only in part)
but his conclusions of law are now .. law.

> In article
> MSN.com won't play nice with others
> http://netscape.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5098787,00.html

> MSN refuses to allow any browser other than Internet Explorer to
> access it's web site.

> This is one of the most flagrant violations of the Antitrust rulings
> yet. They are very clearly demonstrating that Microsoft can't be
> trusted to obey any court ruling. After a unanimous ruling told
> Microsoft
> that they didn't have the right to exclude competitors from the
> market,
> Microsoft is now trying to pull a stunt like THIS!

> I wonder how the settlement talks are going :-)

by **Sundial Service** » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:49:35

The problem with that argument, Erik, is that (at the moment, at least)
Microsoft owns the pre* operating system. Of course any web
subscriber is free to simply "not use MSN .. who'd want to anyway, etc"
but the concern over the bigger picture is quite legitimate -- and
Microsoft has proven itself to be an arrogant loose-cannon.

MSN unquestionably has the right to refuse non-IE browsers. But when
the company that owns MSN is the selfsame one that owns the browser and
the O/S that runs it, there is justifiable opportunity for abuse, and
therefore, cause for alarm.

> This isn't an anti-trust issue at all.

> If I own a store, It is perfectly within my right to dictate who I will
> allow into my store and who I will serve, so long as I don't discriminate
> against protected civil rights (based on race, creed, gender or *
> preference). The same applies to web sites. For instance, I can prevent
> people from certain countries, or even people who drive fords (assuming i
> could figure out a way to determine this fact) from using my site.

> If MS wants to make the mistake of shutting out a large group of people from
> MSN, that's their decision to make, and legally so. Lots of people get shut
> out of sites using Lynx and ActiveX and Java and many other ways every day.

> MSN is just another portal site. There is nothing there that is unique or
> vital.

by **yt..** » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:49:12

> On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:41:15 -0400,

>>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>--------------FA3F98B968C1043B50EF610D
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

>>In article
>>MSN.com won't play nice with others
>>http://netscape.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5098787,00.html

>>MSN refuses to allow any browser other than Internet Explorer to
>>access it's web site.

>>This is one of the most flagrant violations of the Antitrust rulings
>>yet. They are very clearly demonstrating that Microsoft can't be
>>trusted to obey any court ruling. After a unanimous ruling told
>>Microsoft
>>that they didn't have the right to exclude competitors from the
>>market,
>>Microsoft is now trying to pull a stunt like THIS!

>>I wonder how the settlement talks are going :-)

>>--
>>Rex Ballard
>>IT Architect
>>Leader in commercial use of the Internet and Open Source.
>>http://www.open4success.com
> There will be no actions taken against Microsoft Corporation
> as the Bush Administration is corrupt.
> They butted in and essentially pardoned Microsoft for all
> their past actions and now Microsoft is free to play again.
> Everybody knows that George Bush is 20 times smarter than
> 19 full states worth of prosecution teams seeking justice.
> So for the next 4 years, you better just get used to being
> abused as you will get no relief nor justice from this
> administration.

8 years. No one is going to dare vote him out of office for
fear of being labelled "anti-american".

-----.

--
Theres a hole in the world like a great black pit and
its filled with people who are filled with shit and the
vermin of the world inhabit it

by **Michael Veste** » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:58:17

> On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:41:15 -0400,

> >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> >--------------FA3F98B968C1043B50EF610D
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> >In article
> >MSN.com won't play nice with others
> >http://netscape.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5098787,00.html

> >MSN refuses to allow any browser other than Internet Explorer to
> >access it's web site.

> >This is one of the most flagrant violations of the Antitrust rulings
> >yet. They are very clearly demonstrating that Microsoft can't be
> >trusted to obey any court ruling. After a unanimous ruling told
> >Microsoft
> >that they didn't have the right to exclude competitors from the
> >market,
> >Microsoft is now trying to pull a stunt like THIS!

> >I wonder how the settlement talks are going :-)

> >--
> >Rex Ballard
> >IT Architect
> >Leader in commercial use of the Internet and Open Source.
> >http://www.open4success.com

> There will be no actions taken against Microsoft Corporation
> as the Bush Administration is corrupt.

> They butted in and essentially pardoned Microsoft for all
> their past actions and now Microsoft is free to play again.

> Everybody knows that George Bush is 20 times smarter than
> 19 full states worth of prosecution teams seeking justice.

> So for the next 4 years, you better just get used to being
> abused as you will get no relief nor justice from this
> administration.

> And I encourage all people of intelligence to vote straight
> Democrat and get some justice applied to Microsoft Corporation.

> Microsofts actions today have convinced me they are criminals
> and so is the Bush Administration of collusion with Microsoft
> Corporation in these matters.

> Charlie

We can hope that Europe has a better shot at Microsoft.
--

Picking a new sig is hard

by **Erik Funkenbusc** » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 13:45:50

Quote:> It can't help them. Now that the Supreme Court has declined to hear
> their case, Judge Jackson's findings of fact are irrefutable law. His
> penalties may have been too extreme and were set aside (only in part)
> but his conclusions of law are now .. law.

No, they're not. The Supreme court hasn't declined to hear their case, they
declined to hear it *AT THIS TIME*. MS can still go to the supreme court
after the remanded portions of the case have been dealt with, and the
Supremes will be much more likely to consider it.

by **Erik Funkenbusc** » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 13:48:50

Quote:> The problem with that argument, Erik, is that (at the moment, at least)
> Microsoft owns the pre* operating system. Of course any web
> subscriber is free to simply "not use MSN .. who'd want to anyway, etc"
> but the concern over the bigger picture is quite legitimate -- and
> Microsoft has proven itself to be an arrogant loose-cannon.

Arrogance is not against the law (except when displayed IN a court of law).
This issue is not related to Operating systems at all. It allows people
using Netscape 4.7 on Windows, MacOS, Linux, FreeBSD, whatever to access it.
It doesn't allow browsers that they have deemed "incompatible" to use it
(some of which don't work on Windows either).

Quote:> MSN unquestionably has the right to refuse non-IE browsers. But when
> the company that owns MSN is the selfsame one that owns the browser and
> the O/S that runs it, there is justifiable opportunity for abuse, and
> therefore, cause for alarm.

As I said, if MS want's to make this mistake, it's theirs to make.

by **Terry Port** » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:06:47

On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:31:08 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch dashed off:

Quote:>This isn't an anti-trust issue at all.

>If I own a store, It is perfectly within my right to dictate who I will
>allow into my store and who I will serve, so long as I don't discriminate
>against protected civil rights (based on race, creed, gender or *
>preference). The same applies to web sites. For instance, I can prevent
>people from certain countries, or even people who drive fords (assuming i
>could figure out a way to determine this fact) from using my site.

>If MS wants to make the mistake of shutting out a large group of people from
>MSN, that's their decision to make, and legally so. Lots of people get shut
>out of sites using Lynx and ActiveX and Java and many other ways every day.

>MSN is just another portal site. There is nothing there that is unique or
>vital.

Your logic is reasonable Erik, neverthless this action is indefensible by
all internet standards.

Its a bit like this :-

Erik posts to Cola from a Microsoft Newsreader:-

Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Hey Judge Kelly - EAT THIS!!
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:31:08 -0500

Lines: 43
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2526.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2526.0000

So I decide that he has no place on Cola, because Cola is for Linux advocates
and he is a Windows advocate.

So I killfile Erik for 30 days.

--
Kind Regards from Terry
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux.
Free Micro Burner http://www.veryComputer.com/~tp/burn.html
** Registration Number: 103931, http://www.veryComputer.com/ **

by **Matthew Gardine** » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:30:11

> > On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:41:15 -0400,

> > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> > >--------------FA3F98B968C1043B50EF610D
> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> > >In article
> > >MSN.com won't play nice with others
> > >http://netscape.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,5098787,00.html

> > >MSN refuses to allow any browser other than Internet Explorer to
> > >access it's web site.

> > >This is one of the most flagrant violations of the Antitrust rulings
> > >yet. They are very clearly demonstrating that Microsoft can't be
> > >trusted to obey any court ruling. After a unanimous ruling told
> > >Microsoft
> > >that they didn't have the right to exclude competitors from the
> > >market,
> > >Microsoft is now trying to pull a stunt like THIS!

> > >I wonder how the settlement talks are going :-)

> > >--
> > >Rex Ballard
> > >IT Architect
> > >Leader in commercial use of the Internet and Open Source.
> > >http://www.open4success.com

> > There will be no actions taken against Microsoft Corporation
> > as the Bush Administration is corrupt.

> > They butted in and essentially pardoned Microsoft for all
> > their past actions and now Microsoft is free to play again.

> > Everybody knows that George Bush is 20 times smarter than
> > 19 full states worth of prosecution teams seeking justice.

> > So for the next 4 years, you better just get used to being
> > abused as you will get no relief nor justice from this
> > administration.

> > And I encourage all people of intelligence to vote straight
> > Democrat and get some justice applied to Microsoft Corporation.

> > Microsofts actions today have convinced me they are criminals
> > and so is the Bush Administration of collusion with Microsoft
> > Corporation in these matters.

> > Charlie

> We can hope that Europe has a better shot at Microsoft.

Considering that anti-competitive legislation is Europe is different, in a
good way, the chances are pretty high. Also, What I would like to see is a
more clear cut anti-competitive legislation, rather than one with too many
grey areas as the case with the Anti-Trust laws.

Matthew Gardiner

by **Beheader** » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:05:48

Quote:> It can't help them. Now that the Supreme Court has declined to hear
> their case, Judge Jackson's findings of fact are irrefutable law. His
> penalties may have been too extreme and were set aside (only in part)
> but his conclusions of law are now .. law.

I'm starting to feel a little relieved. After all, now there is
irrefutable evidence that is considered "law" of what I have been saying
about Microsoft since 1991.

Damn- it's about time.

Will it be enough??

--
BEHEADER!
Admin, Mac House of AssWhip Quake III System

http://www.aswp.net

by **Matthew Gardine** » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:26:06

Quote:> The problem with that argument, Erik, is that (at the moment, at least)
> Microsoft owns the pre* operating system. Of course any web
> subscriber is free to simply "not use MSN .. who'd want to anyway, etc"
> but the concern over the bigger picture is quite legitimate -- and
> Microsoft has proven itself to be an arrogant loose-cannon.

> MSN unquestionably has the right to refuse non-IE browsers. But when
> the company that owns MSN is the selfsame one that owns the browser and
> the O/S that runs it, there is justifiable opportunity for abuse, and
> therefore, cause for alarm.

What happens when MSN is used as a portal to "essential" services such as
Online Banking? meaning Joe or Jane Alt.OS won't be able to do online
banking. Thus, MS can use the portal as a leveraging tool to "push" people
to use Windows XP.

Matthew Gardiner

by **Matthew Gardine** » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:27:28

> On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:31:08 -0500, Erik Funkenbusch dashed off:
> >This isn't an anti-trust issue at all.

> >If I own a store, It is perfectly within my right to dictate who I will
> >allow into my store and who I will serve, so long as I don't discriminate
> >against protected civil rights (based on race, creed, gender or *
> >preference). The same applies to web sites. For instance, I can prevent
> >people from certain countries, or even people who drive fords (assuming i
> >could figure out a way to determine this fact) from using my site.

> >If MS wants to make the mistake of shutting out a large group of people
from
> >MSN, that's their decision to make, and legally so. Lots of people get
shut
> >out of sites using Lynx and ActiveX and Java and many other ways every
day.

> >MSN is just another portal site. There is nothing there that is unique
or
> >vital.

> Your logic is reasonable Erik, neverthless this action is indefensible by
> all internet standards.

> Its a bit like this :-

> Erik posts to Cola from a Microsoft Newsreader:-

> Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
> Subject: Re: Hey Judge Kelly - EAT THIS!!
> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:31:08 -0500

> Lines: 43
> X-Priority: 3
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2526.0000
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2526.0000

> So I decide that he has no place on Cola, because Cola is for Linux
advocates
> and he is a Windows advocate.

> So I killfile Erik for 30 days.

> <plonked (30 days) for using a non Linux newsreader on Cola>

Question, why is he still using a Beta version of Windows XP? or is be a
"loyal Microsoft support", yet, can't be bothered being legal?

Matthew Gardiner

by **Matthew Gardine** » Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:30:26

> > It can't help them. Now that the Supreme Court has declined to hear
> > their case, Judge Jackson's findings of fact are irrefutable law. His
> > penalties may have been too extreme and were set aside (only in part)
> > but his conclusions of law are now .. law.

> No, they're not. The Supreme court hasn't declined to hear their case,
they
> declined to hear it *AT THIS TIME*. MS can still go to the supreme court
> after the remanded portions of the case have been dealt with, and the
> Supremes will be much more likely to consider it.

I'd like to see the government play hardball, and tell Microsoft stiff
bikkie, they broke the law, tough luck and accept the consequences of their
actions. Microsoft is the maker of their own destiny. They chose to break
the law. If this was you or me, we would be halled through the court faster
than I can say XP. The law applies to everyone, even those who sit on a
mountain of cash such as MS.

Matthew Gardiner